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Joja has been inactive due to real life stuff and Shiny has left the site for a break. But Opo still submitted force points each night.
Glad to have made this game incredible to you, Though I'm not sure I'm the MVP for town.
I mean, let's be real here, who else would I put as the MVP for the Town? Most of Town played the game of "I'm not really going to be proactively scumhunting until I'm the Lynch target". Shish and Moydoy played good town, too (I made one point in the Dead PM about Shish needing to cool it on RVS since the goal is to get out of RVS ASAP and into talking, and I think Moydoy could have been a little more proactive earlier, but Day 1 isn't exactly an easy day - Hell, my chance of having a good day 1 is like, 50/50), but I think what caught me about your play was how receptive you were to improving and honing in your play style - Learning about Post ISO's, asking questions, making stuff generally happen in a proactive discussion for town without spewing wine. I'd rather highlight that over people who pressed shiny buttons.
The delicious beauty of it all is Kon's wine and all the Roleblocker/Redirector nonsense definitely won us scum the game.
At that point, I was already convinced that Kon was cheating, not only because of his thin reasoning for scumreads on me and praline in thread, but because he had picked out my phrasing of "Take a seat", and he knew that it had removed his vote. After Mayo Clinic and before this game, Bard had mentioned in private that he thought Kon had a history of cheating, so I was on the lookout from the second that Natz was lynched. Then, Kon sent a Night PM to Chu detailing the identities of the scumteam (he was unsure between Koops and Maven for a single post, then mysteriously decided that Koops had scumslipped) and he wouldn't take no for an answer when Chu said no. Even Chu said three times in the scum PM, "Wow, Kon is cheating!" although he was joking at the time.
vaanrose
, who really put together a great setup. I know how agonizing it can be to run such a large machine with a lot of moving parts that you care about. And it's fine that Alpha got a mod error confirmation, no worries, no biggie, lynched him anyway. (Sorry,
AlphaSSB
.) I hope your experience hosting wasn't marred by one or two of the players, because all the work (and artwork!) that you put into it really shines through, and for me it was at least tied for the best mafia game I've played in, for sure.
I kind of knew someone most likely had a defensive duel ability and the only characters that really made sense to have that was Mace or Obi Wan, so it yeah it helped seeing you have double wagers.![]()
I think you played just fine, by the way. I'd be lying if I said that I had expected you to go along with me for as long as you did, but you had the right idea a lot of the time (see above) and you figured out that redirecting Z25 to you was a good play, and kept your redirect that phase so ambiguous that I helplessly crashed into you in confusion.
Did you believing my claim have anything to do with your wagers being halved, since I said my wagers were doubled?
I think this is an interesting discussion.
So, Bard read Nabe 100% correctly, but Nabe was wrong. Is what Bard did good play, or bad play?
vaanrose
, what do you think?
Ahhh ok fine I'll comment on some things.I think this is an interesting discussion.
Was Bard wrong for trying to read how Nabe handled the investigation, when Bard was limited in who he could investigate?
Nabe believed his Godfather role would make him appear town, and Bard recognized how Nabe was acting, and assumed this meant an investigation into Nabe would be pointless as it'd come up town. But it turns out Nabe was wrong, and the investigation would have shown him scum. Bard did try to investigate Nabe, but he was short one vote, and couldn't investigate again, so because of his read he decided to not try it again.
Bard did recognize the idea Nabe was still scum here
So, Bard read Nabe 100% correctly, but Nabe was wrong. Is what Bard did good play, or bad play?
Part of me thinks it's good play. Another part of me believes I'd have checked Nabe anyways, because what else would a scum do when faced with an investigation, argue against it? That would make him even more of a target. But if Nabe was correct in his role, and Bard's check would have given a town regardless, Bard would have been right to not waste it.
But Nabe was wrong, and Bard would have found the scum member that cost town the game. So my mind isn't made up.
The day kill is, in fact, a delayed night kill. It's a night action, affected by all the block and redirect actions, that simply takes effect half way through the next day phase.
I’m not sorry lol
Bahumbug.
Not one of my bigger fans of late. :[
I don't find this particular play to be a bad one. I thought about this interaction a lot when people in the graveyard were ripping on Bardull. I think people judge whether a play was good or not based soley on whether the results of the play are good or bad, but in my opinion that's a flawed way to look at it, because when you make the play, you do not have all the knowledge of the setup. So I tend to care more about whether I think the play is good based on the limited knowledge the player has available to them at that point, regardless of the results.I think this is an interesting discussion.
Was Bard wrong for trying to read how Nabe handled the investigation, when Bard was limited in who he could investigate?
Nabe believed his Godfather role would make him appear town, and Bard recognized how Nabe was acting, and assumed this meant an investigation into Nabe would be pointless as it'd come up town. But it turns out Nabe was wrong, and the investigation would have shown him scum. Bard did try to investigate Nabe, but he was short one vote, and couldn't investigate again, so because of his read he decided to not try it again.
Bard did recognize the idea Nabe was still scum here
So, Bard read Nabe 100% correctly, but Nabe was wrong. Is what Bard did good play, or bad play?
Part of me thinks it's good play. Another part of me believes I'd have checked Nabe anyways, because what else would a scum do when faced with an investigation, argue against it? That would make him even more of a target. But if Nabe was correct in his role, and Bard's check would have given a town regardless, Bard would have been right to not waste it.
But Nabe was wrong, and Bard would have found the scum member that cost town the game. So my mind isn't made up.
Well Natz is very special to me so that whole dilemma kinda made me think less of you but give me a couple days and I’m sure things will go back to how they were.
hey you can still be sorry for shiny
One roleblocker and two roles people think are roleblockers but are different mechanically. I don't even consider Z25's disarm a kind of roleblocker, as any standard action goes through. Golden's was definitely a blocker, but it was unique in that in left people open for attack, and had limited uses. Maven was the only vanilla roleblocker.
I mean I was kinda making a joke.
They're more visually interesting and stand out better against the background.
>:^(
There's nothing wrong with a red herring, particularly one that gets conversations going.
I know praline. It's a hard subject to talk about and I definitely could've managed it much better, and I know there were many here who got upset with what I had done because she was a dear friend. As a moderator of this forum, I did what I felt I needed to do to correct the behavior and to make sure everyone here understood that it was not ok to do this no matter who was doing it. It is a tough spot to be in and unfortunately I was one of only two people who knew the extent by which the behavior had occurred. Naturally, I felt the obligation of being the messenger laid with myself and not Nabe. I have felt stress about it since it happened.
You should not conflate the issues and think any criticism of you comes solely from a defense of Natz. She can be guilty and deserve a ban, and you can have acted in bad faith. They're not mutually exclusive. I find the way you treated her to be unjustifiable.
Vaan, you are very protective and loyal to your close friends to a large degree. It is something I do respect. I knew you would react this way more than anyone else.
A few things, I guess, since they're fairly large points.
Even I don't know why I started with the posting restriction, other than that I've always wanted to have that particular restriction. There was no hard goal aside from chaos, but I certainly didn't set out to ruin anyone's time. On the contrary, I've always enjoyed trying to decipher posting restrictions, although they've fallen out of vogue. I had a lot of fun doing it, too, so I hope that it didn't ruin everyone's enjoyment in the way that it seemed to ruin one player's.
As an aside, I turned it into a silencing effect that someone had hit me with for a couple reasons. For one, I mistakenly made a post with text, even though I had decided to only do pictures, and that would more realistically result in a modvote on me, which I couldn't replicate effectively without Vaan backing it up. And I knew that keeping it up for the whole game would put me at a disadvantage if I ever had to make any serious arguments. And, I had planned to claim a droid to explain the pictures, before remembering that unless I wanted to claim Skippy the Jedi Droid or General Grievous, I really had no good options, and would also be throwing away the very good claim of Mace Windu.
At that point, I was already convinced that Kon was cheating, not only because of his thin reasoning for scumreads on me and praline in thread, but because he had picked out my phrasing of "Take a seat", and he knew that it had removed his vote. After Mayo Clinic and before this game, Bard had mentioned in private that he thought Kon had a history of cheating, so I was on the lookout from the second that Natz was lynched. Then, Kon sent a Night PM to Chu detailing the identities of the scumteam (he was unsure between Koops and Maven for a single post, then mysteriously decided that Koops had scumslipped) and he wouldn't take no for an answer when Chu said no. Even Chu said three times in the scum PM, "Wow, Kon is cheating!" although he was joking at the time.
So, I told Chu to just say no, and when that didn't work, told Chu to tell Kon to PM me if he thought I was scum. Kon said no, so I had absolutely no reason to think that he was on our side. The fact that he had already used his knowledge to lynch praline hadn't helped, either, and neither did the fact that he threatened to shoot me if we didn't comply, which he said would cause him to lose the game. All of that is why we decided he needed to be taken out of the picture, so I calmly went about doing that by telling people that he had claimed traitor and getting him lynched when Day began.
And doing that made the game a slog towards the end, as we hemorrhaged scum members and didn't have the benefit of that second Duel every Night. But, it wouldn't be much of a win at all if we had joined up with Kon and he had suggested all the players who needed to die, anyway. Instead, this was an exhilarating game from start to finish, and in some small way I have Kon to thank for that.
A much better candidate for gratitude is
vaanrose
, I loved the setup. Despite the loss, At least it felt a little accurate to the movies. Order 66 has commenced and the Jedi Order are now Extinct. I was extremely impressed with the effort and part of the fun when a flip happened was seeing the amazing portraits of the characters.