The PAL version should have been the tourney standard a long time ago.

[P.C. Jona]

you clearly lack common sense

 

[Kanelol]

u ***s still talk about this?

Europe sucks ****

america rapeeeee

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

 

[LumpyCPU...]

let's all just play mario party instead.
that game's hella more balanced.

 

[BEES]

PAL is a double edged sword. On the one hand, all the characters except Puff are more balanced. I can imagine it's especially helpful to middle and low tiers that had a crippling matchup against Shiek or Fox, but were otherwise usable characters.

On the other hand... Puff becomes Metaknight.

I propose we adopt PAL but ban Puff.

 

[1048576]

That would strictly reduce the number of viable characters.

PAL ruined Ganondorf and broke Jiggs. NTSC is balanced. Heck there were 8 characters represented in the top 8 at APEX.

 

[Jim Morrison]

GL playing your NTSC version I really don't care what you do, we're just gonna play PAL here lololol.

 

[Quic]

That would strictly reduce the number of viable characters.

PAL ruined Ganondorf and broke Jiggs. NTSC is balanced. Heck there were 8 characters represented in the top 8 at APEX.

Hence the prevalence of Jigglypuff in europe.
And that 8 different characters thing is not true, m2k played fox as well as Jman, axe played falco as well as PP and zhu, m2k playing multiple characters=/= '8 different characters in top 8'
The thing is, if you can't beat jigglypuff in pal you aren't going to do miraculously better because of a better upsmash.
That said though, this debate is stupid, we're going to stick with PAL, you're going to stick with NTSC because it's more readily availible.

 

[BEES]

That would strictly reduce the number of viable characters.

PAL ruined Ganondorf and broke Jiggs. NTSC is balanced. Heck there were 8 characters represented in the top 8 at APEX.

Ganondorf's down aerial inflicts less damage, from 22% in NTSC to 21% in PAL.
Ganondorf's forward aerial has dramatically decreased in terms of knockback, in PAL his back aerial is more powerful.

The Fair nerf is inexplicable, but does it really ruin Ganondorf? He still has Dair/Uair, and his Bair is even buffed. Fox and Shiek are tough matchups for him in NTSC. Those matchups could still be better.

 

[BEES]

Hence the prevalence of Jigglypuff in europe.
And that 8 different characters thing is not true, m2k played fox as well as Jman, axe played falco as well as PP and zhu, m2k playing multiple characters=/= '8 different characters in top 8'
The thing is, if you can't beat jigglypuff in pal you aren't going to do miraculously better because of a better upsmash.
That said though, this debate is stupid, we're going to stick with PAL, you're going to stick with NTSC because it's more readily availible.

People look at Apex and Pound 4 and see the Puffs at the top... they really need to see the forest for the trees.

That 1 Pikachu and 1 Mewtwo did well is dwarfed by the fact that half the people at Apex played Fox. I think we could help this game evolve if instead of opting for the pocket Fox, people took another look at their secondaries, and went for less utilized but perfectly usable characters.

The problem is there's no compelling argument to not have Fox as a secondary in NTSC. In PAL there are at least two good arguments.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

In PAL there are at least two good arguments.

really? what are they? :\
people exaggerate how nerfed fox was in pal..

 

[P.C. Jona]

if i didnt have pride in my falcon

i would main fox or falco

because its so easy

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Hence the prevalence of Jigglypuff in europe.
And that 8 different characters thing is not true, m2k played fox as well as Jman, axe played falco as well as PP and zhu, m2k playing multiple characters=/= '8 different characters in top 8'
The thing is, if you can't beat jigglypuff in pal you aren't going to do miraculously better because of a better upsmash.
That said though, this debate is stupid, we're going to stick with PAL, you're going to stick with NTSC because it's more readily availible.

smartest post in this whole thread.

 

[Mind Trick]

not really, the reason (most) people dont play puff in europe because it is looked down upon, and most players dont like to friendly puff players as well. I think every one of the top players agrees jigglypuf is clearly the best character in pal, and most of them have a really beast jiggs but refuse to use her in tournament because her playstyle is boring and takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

also ganon's bair didnt get buffed, it just means with the nerf on fair bair is a more powerfull move in pal.

 

[The Star King]

I propose that we switch to PAL so we can hear Jigglypuff's funny foreign voices.

Pummeluff for top tier.

 

[Hatacatan]

That's the german name. "Puff" actually means "brothel" in german. They also changed "Popo" to "Pepe", because Popo means "***".

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Though the tier list in pal is more balanced there is two problems one samus can't use her extender (WTF) and well this little problem down here.....

As long as we stick with the current stranded we will not have to deal with this at tournaments.

...But fear not for you will see meta-jiggs again

Spoiler

(In your worse nightmares!)

 

[Brightside6382]

not really, the reason (most) people dont play puff in europe because it is looked down upon, and most players dont like to friendly puff players as well. I think every one of the top players agrees jigglypuf is clearly the best character in pal, and most of them have a really beast jiggs but refuse to use her in tournament because her playstyle is boring and takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

also ganon's bair didnt get buffed, it just means with the nerf on fair bair is a more powerfull move in pal.

AKA - EU is full of johns

 

[Quic]

AKA - EU is full of johns

And so is Mango then I assume? just because they just don't like playing puff as much as other characters and I believe that fun is...well...more necessary than playing the best character? brawl isn't meta knight vs meta knight all the time either you know.

 

[ranmaru]

Nah I'm fine with NTSC, cuz that is what I practiced with and am familiar with... Although going to europe for a tourny, well that'd be something to get used to...

but yeah, for here, I'm fine with what we got. I'm a doc, it doesn't matter... And there better be an upb cancel in pal

 

[Armada]

Pal>Ntsc

All the "good chars" are more close too each other (except from puff so ban her )
Low tiers have bigger chances

Seriously chars like Dr M have bigger chances when chars like Sheik and fox is nerfed.

Falcon Peach and Samus is also more close with the best chars.

Pal>Ntsc

 

[Diakonos]

Lol, 5 paragraph essay format.

I feel that Pal is more balanced... but Jiggs is too good. That being said, isn't Puff just about too good in NTSC anyway? Sheik's not about to beat Puff, so her dthrow fair loss isn't THAT important. Mind you, at less than top levels of play, this sucks.

Falco's not constantly spiking Puff with the end of his dair. Marth doesn't usually spike Jiggs either, and the matchup leans towards marth even with the spike. Ganon already gets ***** by puff, doesn't he? Kage doesn't count. The only character that would be really hurt at top levels of play is Fox, because of the lost usmash and uair power.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Armada, do you still think Falco's like 6th? And that ICs are better?

Lol, 5 paragraph essay format.

I feel that Pal is more balanced... but Jiggs is too good. That being said, isn't Puff just about too good in NTSC anyway? Sheik's not about to beat Puff, so her dthrow fair loss isn't THAT important. Mind you, at less than top levels of play, this sucks.

Falco's not constantly spiking Puff with the end of his dair. Marth doesn't usually spike Jiggs either, and the matchup leans towards marth even with the spike. Ganon already gets ***** by puff, doesn't he? Kage doesn't count. The only character that would be really hurt at top levels of play is Fox, because of the lost usmash and uair power.

Fox's U Air is the same. Important nerfs are U Smash and firefox shortening (I guess?). Either way, the only character with an advantage on Puff getting a nerf is highly significant in my eyes.

 

[P.C. Jona]

imo the only chars that can beat jiggs

in either version

is a campy fox

or a campy doc

puff crouch>rest ***** sheiks grabs

and spiking jiggs is freaking hard you gotta get lucky

or just predict their recovery when they try to recover low

 

[KoSa!]

This is like the Brawl+ debate. To get everyone to switch over to pal would be impossible(pros and non-pros). And even if you did, your asking people to completely adapt to a different game no matter how similar the games might be it requires some learning.

Shiek's CG is easier to escape in pal right? and doesn't Marth gets waveshined?

Atleast you don't have a MK situation like the Brawl guys.

 

[Armada]

Blistering Speed: People talk a lot about the grab game but i am not 100% how everything works with that so i am not sure with IC.

Falco is way to overrated.

 

[ranmaru]

Although Armada did come to the US to play a game he's not used to, shouldn't we try the same?

 

[P.C. Jona]

imo

falco on stage is the best char

but off stage hes balls

jiggs is so good because shes really good on stage

and the best char off stage

plus rest

 

[Armada]

P.C. Jona: Falcos laser is way overrated.

Powershield grab and then dead.

Bye bye Falco

 

[P.C. Jona]

he doesnt even need laser lol

he hits with a shine or dair and then 80%

and then dead a little bit after that

 

[Armada]

Much of Falcos stage control is gone when he`s laser is gone.

 

[P.C. Jona]

thats true

still tho

the fact that he has it is stage control

he can mind game you to put up your shield, without shooting the lasers

and then empty jump grab

idk

i think hes just better then everyone else on stage

id like to see an argument for someone whos better on stage

i cant think of any

 

[BEES]

Assuming Puff is banned, Falco should be the best legal character in PAL. Could someone explain why he wouldn't be a Fox/Shiek counter?

 

[Requiem]

This discussion is silly and everyone knows it. Different views can give different opinions about which one is more balanced. More balanced overall you can say that PAL would be the winner considering everything bellow high tier (I'm not touching the jiggz part <_<). But like amsah said, too much of the top game revolves around the higher characters right now so this point COULD be called mute. We have however seen pikachu rise, and mango do fairly good with mario (yeah yeah he ***** with him, but he still got booted out of brackets fairly early at Apex.).

But then you look at the top characters and you see fox, who's been fairly nerfed (his usmash is STILL good, but not rediculous like in pal), the length of his firefox matters ALOT. So this would be also more balanced in PAL.

The problem is, that considering all of this, it all depends too much on the current metagame and poule of top level players. If you have a ****load of REALLY good fox players, NTSC would be rediculously imbalanced, but when you have a ****load of fairly good fox players, and only a few really good ones, the point just doesn't stand strong.


TL;DR: it's too dependant on the current metagame and top player character picks, and no country is gonna change their standard anyways so stop making these silly threads.

 

[Mew2King]

i also think puff should be banned in pal version. With that the case, pal is fine, but i like ntsc better because I'm so used to that. I wouldn't want to change to something I have never done before, and I think most people would feel this way since most people play ntsc.

 

[BEES]

imo the only chars that can beat jiggs

in either version

is a campy fox

or a campy doc

puff crouch>rest ***** sheiks grabs

and spiking jiggs is freaking hard you gotta get lucky

or just predict their recovery when they try to recover low

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzhXxZaQI78&feature=related

or an aggressive falco

*NTSC Supremacy*

 

[P.C. Jona]

i wouldnt mind changing to pal as a falcon player

easy gentlemans would b great

and pp did good against hbox that time

idk if he could do it again but we'll see

 

[BEES]

We would need another top Falco to pull it off before we can say anything. If PP does it again, that just means he's better at the matchup. It might have been the crowd that rattled Hbox, but I got the impression that the crowd is usually against him.

 

[P.C. Jona]

well yea they were in pp's house lol

when hbox was in tristate

we were making him laugh and he was having trouble concentrating hahaha

we werent rooting against him tho like in herb

thats nuts over there

 

[EPsilon933]

Jigglypuff should at most be banned in teams, even in NTSC. She edgeguards off the stage so it's difficult for players to interrupt her, she has a rest that's easy to wake up and not so punishible, she can save opponents well, so much brokeness. She does have a few difficulties in 1v1 matchups (Doc, Fox, Marth, Peach, Falco). The only really bad thing about her is her bair, especially when it's spammed (Hungrybox (Don't hate)) which makes the game a bit boring. But if you play less gay (MaNg0), Jigglypuff can be kind of entertaining.

 

[P.C. Jona]

lets not make this into brawl

im totally against banning a character in melee

most of us that have posted would never be in a position to beat hbox or mango or king or darc in tourney anyways

all im saying is

if you play against a puff

play really gay against it if you can

not with peach tho

with falcon just bair and run away

with fox falco spam lasers and hit and run away

if thats how you gotta win then do it



she is really good in teams tho and theres no real counter to it lol

but in singles theres definitely hope