The Original Midna for Brawl thread. (Debate the Wolf here!)

[Black/Light]

*Sigh. . . . Why can't people just STFU sometimes. . . . Soo many missunderstandings*

Yeah... you assumed wrong... If at anytime we want midna leaving wolf link for good collision we'd need to have a hit box for each limb. Also attacks where she gestrues with her hands, etc. would be reason to give her her own hit boxes.

1)Who said anything about her leaving Wolf Link in a collision? My stand has always been "stay as one but maybe have her become a shadow for up B". 2) If she gestrues with her arms (for w/e reason) I would thing that they could be tooken like Pit's/ Mk's wings.

This isn't connect the lazy dots. Mixing and matching hit boxes would end up being just as difficult on the tools prograners and people using those tools. Also this would be the worst way to solve the problem and would probablly cause more issues than it would fix.

Well I guess it's a good thing I=/= Sarukai. . . . .

I don't know if you noticed but you can only hit the sword of a characer when they attack. thats called an attack hit box.

. . . Thats what I meant.

Yeah... squall hammer, that move was as simple as putting to squall hammer animations side by side. Nothing as complex as one character riding another.

Im sure that if they can be animated together in TP it shouldn't be TOO hard in SSB.

Translation: Man... I have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe this will serve as a good excuse though.

No, translation: Wow, this is the first time I have every seen people agrue over how hard it would be to make a character when neither side has a clue of what the Divs are doing. This should shut this agrument down . . . remind them that it's something you can't really agrue about seeing as we don't know what their up to. (But, here we are. . . .)

And that is why they decided to use the melee engine as a base because a year or a year and six months is nothing. If it weren't for that we wouldn't have scene a trailler yet. (trust me, I know what I'm talking about)

1. When did I say they arnt using Melee engine? 2) Saying 1 1/2 years is nothing adds up to nothing but opinion imo seeing as we have no clue how much planing they have done for this game nor how much they have done to the game as a whole.

Sorry but this argument is silly. The "Head man of nintendo" understand better than most what comprimise in a game means, if sakurai tells him it'd be difficult to introduce midnalink and he doesn see it as worth the effort, he'd understand.

. . . Well it's a good thing I said IF in that quote you quoted. IF they ARE in the game than Im sure that they would have already been started on seeing how hard it seems they would have to work. And "the head of Nintendo" statement was said to show that he wouldn't have to pick up some promotion image (your statement) to know about them. . .

And now the mad search for evidence begins. I don't see how this at all pertains to your argument. Of course he is talking to other directors and creators, but this doesn't mean he is tied down to the way they design thier characters, looks at fox and Pit and wario.

. . . Dude, my "agrument" was that he wouldn't have to "look at a promotional image" to know about Midna and Wolf Link and that he could check in with divs to get more understanding. That really had nothing to do with the real meaning of this thread. . . just your "promotional image" statement. . . .

Or, they could have just decided not to do them. Midnalink doesn't need to be in the game.

Or they could have just put in the work to make them. We don't know what they are doing so it's anyone's guess.

-___-
I'm at a loss for words. Oh wait, here go a few more. It's like you didn't read anything I posted at all. It is very possible to create midna link HT and I both have said this several times each. On that same note we aren't bashing anything, we are telling you information that apparently you don't want to concider and can't counter.

Wow, IM at a loss for words. You do remember that HT did say that it was impossilbe in a earler post right? You do remember me hitting him up with a list of animations for the falling/ jumping and w/e he said wouldn't work or look right right? You do remember that after that he said it was technicaly possible right? You also know that thats around the time this whole coding agruement started right?

So there, if YOU think it can happen and HE thinks it can happen than WHY are you agruing about how hard it would be?
I have said this before (more than once), that this whole coding agrument should have stopped when you both said that it's possible (because if both sides think it's possible than theres nothing for either side to agrue about on that subject).

Now I'm not sure of HT's programing knowledge, but I have this stuff, game programing spesifacally, drilled into my head everyday. I have a deep understanding of it. When you debate you don't dismiss information because you don't understand it. you reseach it. What you are doing is making guess based off of guesses. That is not a very effective way to win an argument.

I know that it's possible, you know that it "very possible". . . agrument stops there. We both agree that it can happen so theres no agrument for us to agrue over when it comes to "can Wolf Link and Midna work together in brawl?" (Which I have siad a few times before!)
And please, tell me whats this agrument over? We both know it's possible for them to put Wolf Link in so what (and why) are we agruing about that?

Oh, well that changes everything. (heh, I'm so clever, that was obviously sarcasm becaues it doesn't)

What? So thats your stand? That she should be solo because it would be hard for the divs to make wolf Link?

I bet you can't find any quote saying he put mario in the game because he is popular either. Just because he didn't say it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Thats the only CONFIRMED reason he gave (as I said in that post). Again, I point at "my real name" agruement.

You are missing the point here Black/Light, even counting kirby no character in brawl has a moveset derived completely from thier games (or apperances in general) But thats not the point, point is characters aren't bound to the game by how they have been portrayed earlier.

In truth, they are limated to doing certain things by logic (Zelda shouldn't turn into a fire form and fly across the stage like Fox's up B). It's really different for each character because, as we all know, some characters don't do anything in their games like Zelda and Peach so they have to be made from nothing but what the divs thinks of them. BUT, some do move. . . but only in odd cars/ jets (Falcon and Fox). With them their moves where based somewhat on their jets ablitities (Fox's spining dive kick/ blaster/ speed and reflicter where based off his airwing). But than you have those like Kirby who where almost completely made up from their own games. So yeah, it's different for each case and that info wasn't really needed.

This is what I get for trying to make peace? Yeesh. You must just like to argue, huh?

I was more so trying to get this agrument back on track and off the coding seeing as we all agree that Midna on Wolf Link can work in a smash game.

edit- On another note, I have no idea why these 2 sides are agruing about this point. If both sides agree that they could be coded into the game together than what is there to agrue about on that point? (Thats the 4-5th time I have said that but w/e).
Please tell me, I sound alot better and make alot more sence when I know just what everyone's stand is and what the agrument is about.
vvv@ Kaid. To spew BS I must be saying something is fact. . . . which Iam not doing.

 

[kaid]

<3, while BLack/Light may be spewing things out of his ***, I still havn't gotten a statement as to the several solutions I made.

HT, if you're not going to debate, why do you stick around?

 

[HiddenTiger]

Because I still love the idea of Midna being in Brawl, and would like to discuss it. There are plenty of other things that this thread could be talking about other than a redundant debate where neither side will willingly listen to the other. Why not re-start that moveset contest that got lost when LessThanThree's thread was merged into this one?

 

[kaid]

We can do that if the thread is ever in danger of dropping off the front page.

Until then, there's no reason.

 

[Konuk]

Ok maybe i was wrong * but everyone loves a darker story and u know it that's just how the world revovles* yea Midna does own navi >:D still dont like how she acts * guess im used to navi more well at least u see her as the cursor XD*

 

[Black/Light]

Just something to start a conversation again, after HT and <3 left...

Why would they need Ice-climber type "cooperation" if they are "linked at the hip" as some have argued.

Oh, (to start a different subject)I wasn't talking about co-op attacks, I was talking about animating 2 characters actions at once. It may be a bad example (I know lil about the IC seeing as I never use to use them) but someone said something about how it would be really hard to animate 2 characters at once.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

This is what I've been gathering so far...

Midna/WL Pros:
Midna gains weight.
WL gains grabs.
WL gains UP+B.
Midna gains speed.
It is how they are seen throughout most of the game.
Melee/Magic hybrid moveset.
Four-legged contender.

Midna/WL Cons:
Midna is seen (by some) as not being able to fight alone.
"Another Link!"

Solo Midna Pros:
Solo reprsentaiton
Not "Another Link!"

Solo Midna Cons:
Floaty
Light
Mewtwo clone POTENTIAL

 

[HiddenTiger]

This is what I've been gathering so far...

Midna/WL Pros:
Midna gains weight.
WL gains grabs.
WL gains UP+B.
Midna gains speed.
It is how they are seen throughout most of the game.
Melee/Magic hybrid moveset.
Four-legged contender.

Midna/WL Cons:
Midna is seen (by some) as not being able to fight alone.
"Another Link!"

Solo Midna Pros:
Solo reprsentaiton
Not "Another Link!"

Solo Midna Cons:
Floaty
Light
Mewtwo clone POTENTIAL

Except for what's in Bold, everything there is just speculation or opinion, and can't be used as evidence on either side. Just wanted to point that out. *runs away laughing*

 

[kaid]

^ I think you need to learn about circomstantial evidence and reasoned conclusions. Just because someone doesn't have all the information yet, doesn't mean they cannot take a crack at what it may be.

For instance, part of the evidence you throw out, is that Midna + wolf would be heavier than Midna alone. While that may be speculation, as we don't know the minds of Sakurai, it is reasonable to assume ANYTHING plus SOMETHING, is greater than what you started with.

 

[HiddenTiger]

As far as I'm concerned, anything involving stats, movesets, or playability is mere speculation until the game is out.

 

[Black/Light]

^^^ But you can still take educatated guesses at things using what we know about the character and comparing that to other things.

Like them being heavier together as Kaid said. It's basic logic that of one thing plus something thats larger (or ANYTHING) = heavier than that one thing alone.

(Compared only to melee-) Speed. Seems that ,chances are, Midna and Wolf Link will be faster than Midna solo. When compared to Melee the only 4 legger runners (Pika/Pichu) are fast and the only floater is slow ( M2 floating is their reason for making him slow. . . seems they think floating =/= good movement across land).

 

[Nigzel]

(RWB typing)

I read that "Midna can't use the Master Sword because she doesn't have a piece of the triforce."

Guess what, Link from Alttp didn't have a piece, but he still used it. The only rule is that the one who wield it must be a true hero, which explains why Tetra/Zelda could. Midna is a true hero(ine), so it's likely she could too.

*Just pointing it out*

 

[HiddenTiger]

^^^ But you can still take educatated guesses at things using what we know about the character and comparing that to other things.

Like them being heavier together as Kaid said. It's basic logic that of one thing plus something thats larger (or ANYTHING) = heavier than that one thing alone.

(Compared only to melee-) Speed. Seems that ,chances are, Midna and Wolf Link will be faster than Midna solo. When compared to Melee the only 4 legger runners (Pika/Pichu) are fast and the only floater is slow ( M2 floating is their reason for making him slow. . . seems they think floating =/= good movement across land).

Oh, I know that. All of that does make perfect sense, and I can see what you mean clearly. I just don't like using stats as evidence for a game that isn't out or even done yet. Even if the guesses made are good ones, they're still just guesses.

 

[kaid]

^ then why do you use "they would be hard to do" as a reason against? that's just as much as an assumption.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Because I wasn't talking about stats. I was talking about programming. Notice that I never once argued about how good or bad she would be without him. I....no! No more talking about this! I'm sick of it. *leaves*

 

[Black/Light]

Wow. . . .I was just reading over the "how this game came to be" part of the official site and I ran over this lil old tid-bit of information about how the maker of LoZ ( Eiji Aonuma) incoraged him to make Brawl . . .

"A conversation I had with Eiji Aonuma, producer of the Legend of Zelda series, best represents what caused me to make my decision.

It was after Nintendo's announcement at a party packed with people from the industry.

"Sakurai-san! Please make Smash Bros.! You are gonna make it, right?"

"Well, uh, I wonder what will happen." (I was a little incoherent because I didn't know how to respond.)

"To be honest, if you aren't involved with it, that will probably mean the end to the Smash Bros. series.
Smash Bros. piles together so many elements from so many games and continues entertaining people without ever growing old. It's your skill, your sense, your thinking that's allowed that to happen. I don't think there's anyone who can replace you.
Creating a Smash Bros. with no soul would be a waste of time.

There is something that only I can create, and it is desired now. If I'm not going to show my strengths now, when will I? And among all the activities I could undertake, the best way to satisfy the most consumers, including those overseas, would probably be to create Smash Bros.
"

I found that interesting. . . never really thought about his talk with the maker of LoZ tell I got interested in this thread. I was really looking for his reason for putting in Snake for another thread's topic (for some reason I can't find that statement any more. . . ).

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright. I am going to try to think like Sakurai. Sakurai wants to make his audience happy with renown characters, but he likes to try out weird mechanics. He thinks out of the box. Zelda's transformation, Yoshi's different take on abilites, Kirby's ability to float, Peach's drit technique, the Ice Climber's dual system of fighting, and even the whole concept of racking up percentage to toss someone off a cliff are interesting and fun ideas.

So when it comes to an interesting character like Midna do you really think Sakurai is going to put her alone rather then on a four legged character.

So many more possibilites.

 

[alpha n00b]

tingle before midna END OF STORY!

DUN! DUN! DUN!

 

[Komayto]

tingle before midna END OF STORY!

DUN! DUN! DUN!

Bah, you should at least state your reasons. No offense, but if you just come in here and say absolutely nothing but "this character will be in before this one" then you kinda look like a jerk. Looking at the "dun dun dun", though, it seems like that was your intention, so I'll just shut up about that.

I admit it, Tingle has quite a good chance. He has been in pretty many games, including his own game (which is really fun, by the way). However, there is one big obstacle for him: he is widely disliked outside of Japan. He also has never really played a major role in any Zelda game (except for his own game, of course, but you know what I mean).
Midna is a main character (and pretty much THE central character) from the current "big" Zelda game and people seem to love her. A Midna fan forum was made very shortly after the game's release.

I'd say that they have pretty equal chances.
However, Midna is a much more appealing character (for me, that is) so I obviously support her more.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

^^I was wondering when someone else was going to point out that, although hated by America, Tingle's chances are actually very good. He is definately in the top twenty on the "Most Likely Characters for Brawl" list.

 

[Stryks]

If tingle makes it in, he will be officially my training dummy... yet hopin he doesnt make it...

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

If tingle makes it in, he will be officially my training dummy... yet hopin he doesnt make it...

I believe we all feel the same way.

 

[MetalLuigi1209]

I got twilight princess on xmas eve, and I love it. I think Midna would be a good choice for brawl, but only by herself. Maybe Wolf Link could replace Y.Link or something. Her special could be a giant force field, that traps her enemies, and then she would begin a series of small chain attacks.

 

[HiddenTiger]

I believe we all feel the same way.

Don't speak for everyone, there. You know what? If Tingle makes it in, then I'll make him one of my mains and master him so I can stomp all you haters Koo-loo Limpah, B****es! [/spam]

Here's hoping Midna makes it in, wolfback or not.

 

[Iggy K]

Finally got Twilight Princess, and I think Midna would be a good addition as long as she's on Wolf Link, mainly because I can't really see her being in by herself.

 

[experiment111]

She'd be a kl character for sure. But has anyone thought of her as appearin /SPOILER/ as her true form that u see at the end of the game or is that too big a spoiler?

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

as long as they arent a transformation of normal link, sounds pretty good.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want Midna in Brawl! I finished TP 2 days ago, and I say it's a pretty impressive game. A little bit too short for my likes, but yeah... It was a cool game! :D

Anyways, I'd rather have Midna alone then her riding Wolf Link. She perhaps doesn't has many moves, but I'm sure they can make up some.

Midna would be a character with a huge grab range and powerful throws, like Mewtwo (except for the range ). She would slightly float above the ground while running, so low ground attacks wouldn't hit her. Midna wouldn't really be a strong character, and would have trouble killing her opponent without a grab. She also would be pretty light, probarly as light as Fox or Pikachu. I want Midna to be in her impish form, since Im not so found *SPOILER*

Spoiler

of her princess look...

*SPOILER*

As for a Super move... I guess all you guys who finished TP know what that should be right?

 

[Masque]

Agreed about the Super:

Spoiler

Twilight Spider form, spear the opponent(s)

And Diddy, I like your description of Midna's stats.

 

[Godzidra]

I say Midna stays on WolfLink's back and their super smash move is either Midna turns into that huge creature or they do their barrier move that make WolfLink attack everyone really quickly.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

Finally got Twilight Princess, and I think Midna would be a good addition as long as she's on Wolf Link, mainly because I can't really see her being in by herself.

Well I can't really see wolf link on himself since he is a wolf, and can only bite, lunge and use his tail attack. I would like Midna to be solo but if they will include wolf link I'm pretty sure they''ll be one character

 

[IllidanDaDemon]

The orb thing in brawl should let midna turn into the twilight beast fo sho

 

[Vrapris Vite]

Not sure if anyone has suggested this, but how about something like Ice Climbers if Midna and Wolf Link are one character. You know, powerful hits may seperate the two or something like that.

It would mean a ridiculous moveset, but just an idea. ^^

 

[Paranoid_Android]

It would gimp the character, in my opinion. A strong hit would knock Midna off, I'm presuming, and then she would have to float back to Link, being useless all the while. Also, since Midna, in one way or the other would be part of the pair's third jump, it would mean that hitting them in different directions would spell out an automatic kill. I'd rather have them paired together, and a strong hit would make Midna disappear into Link's shadow (like when you dig into a hole in TP), and then reappear after you've gained control of the character.

Super Smash should definitely be the fused shadow attack Midna does - Turn into a six legged beast and spear the stage, causing massive damage and knockback at the point of impact. (Link would probably watch safely from a distance, as usual).

 

[Repyh]

I would go for Midna (solo), Wolf Link (solo) and Midna's true form

Midna's true form should be allot like Zelda like Falco/Fox, CF/Ganondorf

 

[IllidanDaDemon]

it should be MIdna in her imp form
abills could be
b the shadow bolt thing she can do
up b teleport
right left b teleport a person in the direction its used back maybe 15 feet whatever works
down b transform to twilight beast with the giant Light Spear

 

[kingkirby7714]

it should be MIdna in her imp form
abills could be
b the shadow bolt thing she can do
up b teleport
right left b teleport a person in the direction its used back maybe 15 feet whatever works
down b transform to twilight beast with the giant Light Spear

Not a bad move set, but the Twilight Beast thing maybe a little odd. I mean, If you transform into the Twilight Beast like Zelda transforms into Shiek, people would stay as the Twilight Beast, just like people usually stay as Shiek. And if Midna transformed for that one move, it wouldn't really feel like it belongs in the moveset. The teleport move would be pretty cool, though. Maybe she could use the light spear in her imp form. She could pull out the spear and drive it into the ground, like Yoshi's Down B. But it should definitely be Midna by herself.

 

[IllidanDaDemon]

the spear in imp form wouldnt work. That thing is 10 times her size lol
maybe add a different down B and add the twilight beast as the super smash thing that's new to the game

 

[Joner]

Midna by herself or Midna on Link's back is #1 on my Brawl wishlist.

 

[kingkirby7714]

the spear in imp form wouldnt work. That thing is 10 times her size lol
maybe add a different down B and add the twilight beast as the super smash thing that's new to the game

Oh yeah, I forgot about the big super smash. and i didn't mean the spear should be that big, but your idea is better.