~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[Cook]

While we're talking about random matchups, I still don't think Link is 70:30. I've played with a couple of the top Links in the country (Arkive and Legan; I play with Legan fairly frequently) and, granted that they're probably better players than I am to begin with, it doesn't feel like that huge of an advantage. MAYBE 65:35, I guess. I dunno, Link's got stuff.

 

[asob4]

I'll believe it when I hear M2K agree .
But, really, nobody likes the Caped Crusader. They just play him because he's easy to use.

m2k is the one who said oli counters MK >.>

looking at it now, camping is the best thing you can do, and with "perfect" camping oli might have a slight advantage

i think it's 55-45 MK's favor

 

[Bestiarius]

Oh, no, I wasn't saying he doesn't counter the Crapped Crusader; I just was questioning the tornado spam. I think oli does have an advantage, but I wouldn't say how big. I actually think an aggressive Olimar could destroy a good Metaknight.

 

[asob4]

no
tornado beats any offensive option

you have to play defensive

 

[Bestiarius]

Are you sure he can't be grabbed out of it? I thought any projectile knocks him out of it according to the Metaknight boards.

 

[gantrain05]

nado beats everything but a pivot grab lol.

 

[asob4]

grab = defensive move

upb works too

 

[Bestiarius]

Wait. You're contradicting yourself. You just said that tornado beats any offensive move, then you said up b knocks him out of it. Which is it?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Wait. You're contradicting yourself. You just said that tornado beats any offensive move, then you said up b knocks him out of it. Which is it?

you're thinking too much

he said it beats any offensive 'option', not move. chain works as a move that knocks him out of tornado, but it doesnt really work as an option.

as for pivot grabbing, that'll only work if the mk is coming towards you hovering barely above the ground. A smart mk will keep the tornado out of olimar's grab range.

a regular grab will break the tornado, since it's a grab, but it doesnt usually have enough range for olimar to not get hit in the process. Grabs come out in 11 frames which is plenty for MK to hit olimar. Pivot grabs are the only safe way to do anything to meta during his tornado. (other than nairing from above him)

whoa, DDD matchup is only listed as 60:40?

:x

 

[gantrain05]

you're thinking too much

he said it beats any offensive 'option', not move. chain works as a move that knocks him out of tornado, but it doesnt really work as an option.

as for pivot grabbing, that'll only work if the mk is coming towards you hovering barely above the ground. A smart mk will keep the tornado out of olimar's grab range.

which is exactly why metaknight is GHEY, i've been in a big "i hate metaknight" mood for the last few days, stupid thing is that i can play like 12 different chars at a tourney level yet i still just get CP'd by mk and it doesn't matter how much i know, i honestly gave up using olimar vs metaknight, i found that if MK just goes insane agro on ur *** you don't really have any options at all.

 

[Bestiarius]

So, it has to be a pivot grab? A regular grab won't break him out of the tornado?

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Are we gonna talk about MK, Link, Kirby, or Lucario people? All of these random discussions are killing me, just pick one please.

 

[Fino]

a regular grab will break the tornado, since it's a grab, but it doesnt usually have enough range for olimar to not get hit in the process. Grabs come out in 11 frames which is plenty for MK to hit olimar. Pivot grabs are the only safe way to do anything to meta during his tornado. (other than nairing from above him)

nair clanks from the side


~Fino

 

[asob4]

it doesn't matter who we talk about

top corner is where it breaks it, and since it's multi hit it clanks then hits him

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Considering on how difficult this match up is, how about we discuss Sheik?

 

[Dotcom]

I don't find the Sheik matchup that hard, just more annoying than anything.
Let's just pick.

Oh and about MK.
The matchup is really dependent on how the MK plays.
You're praying for an agressive MK.
Let's take for example... M2K. M2K is probably THE most agressive MK.(as well as the best)
This could probably put him into situations, but he's just better than everyone anyway so he wins :/(sad true fact)
It's much easier to fight a MK that rushes in all the time because then you are able to p[lay defensively which helps us out in the match up.

But then you have a really defensive Olimar. Let's say Spam(probably the second best MK the US)
Spam is THE most defensive player ever, and the MK you just don't want to face. HE WILL NOT APPROACH YOU IF HE HAS A PERCENT LEAD. Especially since we're Olimar and in this matchup we have to camp to win, it leads to him getting a percent lead. Going to the opposite side of the stage than you, and Fair'ing` since he camps campers.
That's it. If you think that MK destroys all of our Offensive options then this is what you are facing. ANy time you have to appraoch and attack MK, unless they mess up, You will end up trading hits, which could put you in the situaution to get gimped. If a MK plays like this, I think it (emphasis on I) could probably be one of our hardest matchups.
Take that how you want it.

 

[DanGR]

So guys. I have a new (probably not new, but new to me at least) strategy for fighting MK that needs critique. Before you say it sounds dumb, you need to try it out. Follow this strategy for about 5 or 6 matches and see what happens. I used it for a about 3 hours one night against an MK main I play with and by the end of the night, I was 2-3 stocking every match. It was simple and the only way I got hit was if I made a mistake with my impatient followups. No joke.

Simply pick a stage with at least one platform such as lylat or BF and sit under it. Preferably, sit under the edge of the platform. As you know, this helps against any sort of rising dair spammage from above. It deals with some aerial approaches as well.

Anyways, once you're there make sure you have no purples in your line and get as many whites and blues as possible. (the extra length on grabs, and for whites, speed)

Just sit there and spam grabs, one after another. No fsmashes or pivotgrabs. Just standing grabs from under the platform. Yeah... It's boring and may seem sort of dumb right now, but it worked- at least it did for me. I wouldn't take the time to post this if I thought it was crazy.

What it did was stop all ground approaches. There isn't enough room in between grabs for Metaknight (at least that I know) to run in and do anything from ground. He can't space his lengthy tilts either. It should force him into the air where you can simply shield everything and if he does anything punishable, then punish it out of shield with a grab, upsmash, nair, w/e.

You've got more than enough time to react to a tornado, drill rush, or glide attack, and you can shieldgrab all of his falling aerials. Rising aerials can be dealt with normally with upsmashes, upairs, nairs, etc.

If he manages to land near you or apply any sort pressure that can result in damage done to Oli, just run to the other side of the stage, using pivotgrabs along the way to help space.

The only thing I can think of that beats this stategy is if your shield gets worn away enough from shielding too long and then the tornado tears your shield the rest of the way. You can always DI out of it, maybe nair through it, or at least get to the ground, and usually punish it though.

 

[asob4]

mm'd oats
won ;D
but i still love him

65-35
camping is too good

 

[Browny]

hmmm how do you guys see the ZSS match... Personally I was considering using olimar as a counter to ZSS if needed (limited approaches vs godly camping game?) This says 55:45 but that looks like it was written off complete theory. Simply coz of lots of mentioning of how ZSS will gimp Olimar (what attacks does she have to send him at a low enough angle to force an upb?) and how they KO at similar %'s, I would have thought oli can regularly KO <100 and ZSS' kill potential isnt that great, nailing a small target like oli with fair/bair could be difficult and shouldnt sideb be staled? how does it actually pan out for you guys in real matches?

 

[Dyyne]

I find ZSS is can be difficult at times, due to her fast, little lag attacks. It makes grabbing extremely difficult, since it will either be interrupted by one of these moves, or I'll be hit by her forward b if I pivot grab. Also, she outpriortizes many of oli's moves.

 

[Excellence]

Pivot Grabs cannot be punished unless you're running at the ledge, but I wouldn't know that because I suck at Olimar.

 

[Dyyne]

Sorry, I meant that you can't punish properly spaced forward b with pivot grab.

 

[DanGR]

If she jumps towards Olimar with the prediction that he'll pivotgrab, she can hit him with a side-b. Also, I'm fairly sure it either outranges or is on par with Oli's fsmash in terms of range.

As far as the overall matchups goes, I'd say it's about even.
They've got similar range. (Oli has quicker ranged attacks though)
ZSS is faster. Oli is stronger.
Neither combo each other really well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ZSS weighs less too.

Her quick, fast attacks make it difficult to space well, and her jab is great at interrupting Oli's grab. Someone should test whether she can use a spaced nair->jab on Olimar's shield to see if he can shieldgrab it. If so, that'd help her in the matchup a lot.

I'm just rambling now. I think it's about even-ish. bleh.

 

[asob4]

ZSS nair has like no shield stun so it can always be shield grabbed

 

[Dyyne]

If she jumps towards Olimar with the prediction that he'll pivotgrab, she can hit him with a side-b. Also, I'm fairly sure it either outranges or is on par with Oli's fsmash in terms of range.

I think I've hit her with red fsmashes before when she did forward b. I can't remember if we traded hits or not. And her jab comes out on the first frame I'm pretty sure.

 

[typh]

do jkigglypuff imo

 

[Fino]

do jkigglypuff imo

lol, this is how I feel about the jiggs match-up....

jkigglypuff XD

75:25 imo, only the rare beast jigglypuffs will make you use your control stik


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

no you cant O_o

if you sheild his falling fair or glide attack, he can DSmash/DTilt you before you grab gets to him. Keep in mind that olimar's grab takes almost twice as long as the average character's grab. 11 frames, as compared to the usual 6.

If he DSmash's directly after the falling aerial, then yeah. You can sheild grab that, because of the lag afterwards. But if he's smart and DTilts a few times there's nothing you can do.

M2K said Olimar could shieldgrab a spaced falling fair when I proposed the idea a while back. Are you sure fair->dtilt is fast enough? Yeah, you're right about glide attack, but Oimar has enough options to deal with it and/or make MK weary of using it. If they're coming from up high, Running upsmash and upair work well. If they're low pivotgrabbing works. Shielding and then rolling away works against both.

 

[B!ggad]

Do Sheik. There seem to be many different opinions about this match up.

 

[Rocann]

M2K said Olimar could shieldgrab a spaced falling fair when I proposed the idea a while back. Are you sure fair->dtilt is fast enough?

yes, m2k was wrong, if they do it right you can't grab them

and also if they do like him and space far enough don't even try to avoid grabs and instead just start struggling like before the grab even comes, they can actually break out before you can throw them like if you pivot grab too far or grab too far with a purple

 

[Fino]

yes, m2k was wrong, if they do it right you can't grab them

and also if they do like him and space far enough don't even try to avoid grabs and instead just start struggling like before the grab even comes, they can actually break out before you can throw them like if you pivot grab too far or grab too far with a purple

Not even buffering the throw works? Of course purples you can wiggle out, but whites as well? I don't see many olimars buffering grabs @.@


~Fino

 

[Rocann]

it's only if it's really far away and at like 0% I mean, I should've stated that. but yeah he wiggles out stupid fast like before he really even gets to me

 

[Cook]

lol, this is how I feel about the jiggs match-up....

jkigglypuff XD

75:25 imo, only the rare beast jigglypuffs will make you use your control stik


~Fino

I think this matchup is much more even than that. Jigglypuff is good at staying in the air to avoid grabs (not that there is much you can do to her after a grab anyway; the most I ever manage is f-air at low percentages). Of course her aerials outprioritize yours, and pound goes through EVERYTHING (well, not up-b, but that move is pretty risky). She's good at gimping, naturally. It just seems to me that she has a lot of the same characteristics that Oli's other bad matchups have (high aerial priority, ability to avoid grabs). Sure, Oli can kill her very early, but that doesn't mean everything. I'd say it's more like 60:40 or something. Have you played Thinkaman before (especially recently)?

 

[asob4]

meow, top jiggz on west coast, agrees with 70-30 oli's favor

i play him a lot
can't handle the camp

 

[Dabuz]

if you face a smart jiggs they will destroy your camp because her nair by itself should kill most of your pikmin if not all, if used right she is very easy to angle in our blindspots and due to highpriority aerials is hard to hit, is great our luring out and punishing anti air attacks, its actually a very even match surprisingly, because while we will kill her early she will be hard to hit, similar concept to how snake can kill us early, but can't really hit us, id say this match is pretty even


and fight a good jiggs before you put your opinion on this matchup, its played very differently than theorized

 

[asob4]

i've played MEOW
meow is top on the west coast!
gosh
dabuz, more like dadick lmfao <3

like really, meow couldn't do anything to stop me. WAC'd through all his attempts to gimp, a single white latch can be death for jiggs if it's in the right place. and usmash DESTROYS her, literally
she dies very very very early. her attacks don't last that long so when you see them come in, do a retreating f/bair after their attack finishes. depending on the pikmin, it can even outrange her fair

 

[Dabuz]

i've played MEOW
meow is top on the west coast!
gosh
dabuz, more like dadick lmfao <3

like really, meow couldn't do anything to stop me. WAC'd through all his attempts to gimp, a single white latch can be death for jiggs if it's in the right place. and usmash DESTROYS her, literally
she dies very very very early. her attacks don't last that long so when you see them come in, do a retreating f/bair after their attack finishes. depending on the pikmin, it can even outrange her fair

two questions, does she have lots of knowledge ad experience in this matchup?

is she a defensive or offensive player?

and a smart jiggs like i said can kill all pikmin, because i fought one that played defensive and was great with the match up, stopped all pikmin i threw and avoided purples when he saw them, would abuse jiggles air abilities and high priority quick attacks to beat out all my attacks, wouldn't let me into the air and if i got into air can out maneuver oli to easily and just played a very good camp and bait+pressure game, even though he was dieing early when he did get hit just hitting him before being hit or not getting punished for trying setups is hard in this match for oli

 

[Fino]

What skank said... also utilt goes through all her moves if she tries to aerial camp you, and if she comes in low fsmash goes through her moves too. If they fsmash happens to get clanked or the pikmin dies, you can grab her.

Think wario's dair approach or G&W bucket approach.

I jiggs grab combo could either be dthrow - fair - nair/fair (if she jumps away) or dthrow - fair - dtilt usmash uair (if she DI's down).
This is all theory though, I haven't tested it, but it seem like it would work on a light floaty character (from 0/low percents).

Also, even with perfect DI, and fresh purple usmash kills around 80.



~Fino

 

[asob4]

two questions, does she have lots of knowledge ad experience in this matchup?

is she a defensive or offensive player?

and a smart jiggs like i said can kill all pikmin, because i fought one that played defensive and was great with the match up, stopped all pikmin i threw and avoided purples when he saw them, would abuse jiggles air abilities and high priority quick attacks to beat out all my attacks, wouldn't let me into the air and if i got into air can out maneuver oli to easily and just played a very good camp and bait+pressure game, even though he was dieing early when he did get hit just hitting him before being hit or not getting punished for trying setups is hard in this match for oli

meow is a he
he is top on the WC, plays with me quite often and used to play with zori a lot, so i would assume he knows the match up >.>

was that online?
online doesn't come into account <.<

 

[Zori]

i've played MEOW

dabuz, more like dadick lmfao <3

OMFG i never laughed so hard before, im crying right now