~The Olimar Matchup Thread~Review: R.O.B. or someone~

[Awex]

lolol bigfoot. you're dumb, I look forward to receiving your 20 dollars

It's 70/30 Olimar. Can Jiggs do ANYTHING to Olimar's uair?

 

[Fino]

also, a few posts ago you just defended online and a while back you said online doesn't matter, kinda hypocritical(used for lack of remembering the other word)

Online is great to learn, but you can't judge skill off of it.


~Fino

 

[Excellence]

Dabuz, how do you deal with a good Toon Link?

 

[asob4]

you camp, hardcore
double usmash to stop dair completely

 

[kirbywizard]

you camp, hardcore
double usmash to stop dair completely

Just dont be to fancy in the air and you should be fine. A good purple upsmash will kill sooner then you think. I should know, jigss is one of my two other mains.

 

[asob4]

i was referring to toon link, but yes that is correct about jiggs

 

[Dabuz]

for jiggz: she has good ways to stop pikmin from getting on her and can still get off all pikmin easily, im saying, a good defensive one will basically end in a stalemate almost



toon link: uh, first of all, realize that the one who approaches will always die first in this matchup, olimar can punish all of tinks approaches with relative ease and vice versa, so this match will be a camp fest which oli has advantage in, if you must approach as oli make sure tink is at 130% because tink is good at avoiding olis kill moves,

his projectiles make grabbing semi hard to do, he is floaty and fast with a good sheild so upsmashes will be hard to hit with, i suggest a red fair or a ground canceled nair to upsmash for killing off a tink who knows this matchup, but make sure he is at 130% first unless you are risky(or you have purple, fresh purple upsmash can kill at 80%), if YOU are approaching for the kill and always throw pikmin to stop his projectiles, always, and never try to fight him in the air, he will beat you unless you are really good, but even then its risky because it sets you up for upsmash



tink will likely kill oli at a little above 100% with his upsmash or fsmash and at 0% his dsmash has a weird effect where it spikes you offstage kinda, hard to explain which will kill you, but only at 0% now, if tink approaches he will try to pivot boost upsmash or if you are near the edge boomerang->nair you for the kill, or any of his air moves basically, especcially that bair

but keep in mind when you see him approaching throw NON shorthopped pikmin(unless they are purple) so to stop all projectiles to wear away your sheild because he uses that weakened sheild to upsmash you and often stab through you sheild, upsmash will be his main killer in this match unless he tries to grab you(often tink will do this at like 80-100%) then throw you into air then upair for a kill but if any of his moves miss while he is approaching he is always vulnerable so go to town,


now, that is scenario one for this matchup, against an aggressive toonlink when at killing %s it will be same thing where he will use his projectiles to open up a kill moves an you can't rely to heavily on grab or shashes in this matchup


scenario two: if you are fighting an aggressive toonlink he will still spam projectiles but he use them not to damage you much but more to take stage control by forcing you back and wearing away your shield to keep you in positions where your stuck shielding until you have to be hit,

never be at the edge at low %s, ever! he can bair wop to a nair and boomerang once at low %s and you will be gimped if they do it right, often you can see if they are doing this if they are very jumpy in the way they approach or if they are trying to grab


just camp him while jumping around middle of stage and constantly runing away if he plays like this until he is at kill percents then do what i said a while aobve to win this matchup, maybe copntinue later

 

[Fino]

I read one line from that... and it said tlink should kill a little over 100.... with what @.@

There shouldn't be a way for even his upsmash (if he can hit you with it) to kill until around 130-140
his fsmash should never kill you.... DI+SDI up and jump = no hit
As for dsmash... it's why toon link is hella gay. I usually let tlink mains aerial me to 23% before I start playing serious (24% = no spike).


~Fino

 

[Excellence]

for jiggz: she has good ways to stop pikmin from getting on her and can still get off all pikmin easily, im saying, a good defensive one will basically end in a stalemate almost



toon link: uh, first of all, realize that the one who approaches will always die first in this matchup, olimar can punish all of tinks approaches with relative ease and vice versa, so this match will be a camp fest which oli has advantage in, if you must approach as oli make sure tink is at 130% because tink is good at avoiding olis kill moves,

his projectiles make grabbing semi hard to do, he is floaty and fast with a good sheild so upsmashes will be hard to hit with, i suggest a red fair or a ground canceled nair to upsmash for killing off a tink who knows this matchup, but make sure he is at 130% first unless you are risky(or you have purple, fresh purple upsmash can kill at 80%), if YOU are approaching for the kill and always throw pikmin to stop his projectiles, always, and never try to fight him in the air, he will beat you unless you are really good, but even then its risky because it sets you up for upsmash



tink will likely kill oli at a little above 100% with his upsmash or fsmash and at 0% his dsmash has a weird effect where it spikes you offstage kinda, hard to explain which will kill you, but only at 0% now, if tink approaches he will try to pivot boost upsmash or if you are near the edge boomerang->nair you for the kill, or any of his air moves basically, especcially that bair

but keep in mind when you see him approaching throw NON shorthopped pikmin(unless they are purple) so to stop all projectiles to wear away your sheild because he uses that weakened sheild to upsmash you and often stab through you sheild, upsmash will be his main killer in this match unless he tries to grab you(often tink will do this at like 80-100%) then throw you into air then upair for a kill but if any of his moves miss while he is approaching he is always vulnerable so go to town,


now, that is scenario one for this matchup, against an aggressive toonlink when at killing %s it will be same thing where he will use his projectiles to open up a kill moves an you can't rely to heavily on grab or shashes in this matchup


scenario two: if you are fighting an aggressive toonlink he will still spam projectiles but he use them not to damage you much but more to take stage control by forcing you back and wearing away your shield to keep you in positions where your stuck shielding until you have to be hit,

never be at the edge at low %s, ever! he can bair wop to a nair and boomerang once at low %s and you will be gimped if they do it right, often you can see if they are doing this if they are very jumpy in the way they approach or if they are trying to grab


just camp him while jumping around middle of stage and constantly runing away if he plays like this until he is at kill percents then do what i said a while aobve to win this matchup, maybe copntinue later

Always a big help, thanks Dabuz.

 

[Dabuz]

I read one line from that... and it said tlink should kill a little over 100.... with what @.@

There shouldn't be a way for even his upsmash (if he can hit you with it) to kill until around 130-140
his fsmash should never kill you.... DI+SDI up and jump = no hit
As for dsmash... it's why toon link is hella gay. I usually let tlink mains aerial me to 23% before I start playing serious (24% = no spike).


~Fino

ive been killed relatively early by his upsmash when fresh, maybe i should say more like 120% with good di be at even then thats a little high, and yes, but what happens when you can't always sdi the fsmash @-@

and most tinks love to camp me because i camp them so i never really worry about the dsmash spike, unless they are aggressive whee i do the same as you

 

[Excellence]

ive been killed relatively early by his upsmash when fresh, maybe i should say more like 120% with good di be at even then thats a little high, and yes, but what happens when you can't always sdi the fsmash @-@

and most tinks love to camp me because i camp them so i never really worry about the dsmash spike, unless they are aggressive whee i do the same as you

My DI is great and I die from a fresh Toon Link Up Smash at 116%.

 

[Excellence]

Dabuz...

What do you do when MK DTilts you against the edge of the stage? I don't know how to escape it and its starting to be exploited.

What do you do about Toon Link's ZAir?

If your name is NOT Dabuz, do NOT respond.

 

[DanGR]

What do you do when MK DTilts you against the edge of the stage? I don't know how to escape it and its starting to be exploited.

If you've got no room between you and the edge, You have to fall off and get on the ledge.

Edit: >_>

 

[Excellence]

If you've got no room between you and the edge, You have to fall off and get on the ledge.

And Toon Link's ZAir?

Ignore it Dan, I trust your advice.

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz...

What do you do when MK DTilts you against the edge of the stage? I don't know how to escape it and its starting to be exploited.


uh, i di so i fall offstage and then grab ledge, fall under stage so you can upair through the ledge of stage and if mk is hit that gives you ample time to get back on, if they expect that though just let your self grab edge, jump away from stage and use second jump over to stage above the mk and spam super armor while falling unless you can get nair->upsmash, its a really annoying tactic to stop as olimar tbh thyough
What do you do about Toon Link's ZAir?

uh, duck and spam dtilt till i get close enough to do *insert generic olimar thing*, toonlink can't zair you on even ground if you duck and spam dtilt from all the toonlinks ive seen try

if you mean when he is on lower ground then you i just let it hit me so i can get high off ground(kinda) and super armor my way down and do the above

If your name is NOT Dabuz, do NOT respond.

responses in green

 

[DanGR]

And Toon Link's ZAir?

Ignore it Dan, I trust your advice.

In general, fsmashes are more useful in this matchup when he's hopping around with arrows, boomerangs, and short hopped nairs and zairs. Fsmashes will block arrows and boomerangs, and when spaced, they'll intercept TL when he tries to zair. Spaced pivotgrabs outrange zair as well.

When you're not sure what he'll do out of a short hop, shield and wait. If he jumps directly at you from up close, he'll most likely nair into you shield, drop back, and if he think you'll grab he might send out an arrow. That's when you fsmash or dsmash OoS instead.

If he drops back a bit out of the short hop, expect him to weave back in and use a zair. Treat it as you would Marth's fair and don't grab him unless he messes up his spacing. Instead, just shield. Unless you know what he'll do after the zair hits your shield, I wouldn't retaliate out of shield very often. Try to reset your spacing, camp more, and throw out fsmashes and grabs whenever possible.

edit:
lol, or dtilt I guess. I'll have to try that.

 

[Excellence]

In general, fsmashes are more useful in this matchup when he's hopping around with arrows, boomerangs, and short hopped nairs and zairs. Fsmashes will block arrows and boomerangs, and when spaced, they'll intercept TL when he tries to zair. Spaced pivotgrabs outrange zair as well.

When you're not sure what he'll do out of a short hop, shield and wait. If he jumps directly at you from up close, he'll most likely nair into you shield, drop back, and if he think you'll grab he might send out an arrow. That's when you fsmash or dsmash OoS instead.

If he drops back a bit out of the short hop, expect him to weave back in and use a zair. Treat it as you would Marth's fair and don't grab him unless he messes up his spacing. Instead, just shield. Unless you know what he'll do after the zair hits your shield, I wouldn't retaliate out of shield very often. Try to reset your spacing, camp more, and throw out fsmashes and grabs whenever possible.

edit:
lol, or dtilt I guess. I'll have to try that.

This Toon Link is really aggressive and I get put into a spot where if I shield I have to keep the shield up or take stupid damage from the set-ups he's trying to use and if I don't shield I have to keep tossing Pikmin and turtle him until he gets near me with his ZAirs. At first he was actually moving in with them after using a projectile to sort of open a gap for him to get in and I'd ShieldGrab, PivotGrab, FSmash out of shield but he stopped coming toward me with it. He's pushing me toward the edge of the stage with all of his crap then preying off my reduced options. I've been trying to shield the ZAir but once I do that the above happens and I'm pretty much ****ed for the rest of the stock.

Dabuz, is the reason you spam Whistle Armor because you don't time it well consistently or because you don't know what MK is going to do therefore you get as many super armor frames as possible and try to touch the ground? I've got pretty good technical skills, I'm good at timing WAC whenever I need to.

Edit: I think he's got a YouTube account, the next time we play I'll see if I can get a recording.

 

[DanGR]

This Toon Link is really aggressive and I get put into a spot where if I shield I have to keep the shield up or take stupid damage from the set-ups he's trying to use and if I don't shield I have to keep tossing Pikmin and turtle him until he gets near me with his ZAirs. At first he was actually moving in with them after using a projectile to sort of open a gap for him to get in and I'd ShieldGrab, PivotGrab, FSmash out of shield but he stopped coming toward me with it. He's pushing me toward the edge of the stage with all of his crap then preying off my reduced options. I've been trying to shield the ZAir but once I do that the above happens and I'm pretty much ****ed for the rest of the stock.

Dabuz, is the reason you spam Whistle Armor because you don't time it well consistently or because you don't know what MK is going to do therefore you get as many super armor frames as possible and try to touch the ground? I've got pretty good technical skills, I'm good at timing WAC whenever I need to.

Edit: I think he's got a YouTube account, the next time we play I'll see if I can get a recording.

Videos would be very nice. Sometimes you have to stay in the shield until there's a small opening for you to either roll away or attack out of it, meaning you shield multiple attacks like zair-> nair-> arrow.

Other than that, it seems like the TL you play with is playing the matchup against Oli correctly... Not a lot of peeps do that... >_>

MK's attacks are often too quick to time the whistle well (at least for me >_>). If you're directly above MK, (and unless he's being very predictable with it) shuttleloop is very fast and hard to WAC through. In those situations, I find it best to spam the whistle and hope the MK hits me during the SA frames.

 

[Excellence]

Videos would be very nice. Sometimes you have to stay in the shield until there's a small opening for you to either roll away or attack out of it, meaning you shield multiple attacks like zair-> nair-> arrow.

Other than that, it seems like the TL you play with is playing the matchup against Oli correctly... Not a lot of peeps do that... >_>

MK's attacks are often too quick to time the whistle well (at least for me >_>). If you're directly above MK, (and unless he's being very predictable with it) shuttleloop is very fast and hard to WAC through. In those situations, I find it best to spam the whistle and hope the MK hits me during the SA frames.

It's really scary when people know how to play Olimar and I think I'm going with the rest of you guys and spam Whistle against MK.

 

[Dyyne]

I was reading some mk matchup guide, and in their oli section, it said somethin about not being able to get below an mk if they can time uairs correctly, and if the mk times their uairs frame perfectly, oli can't get below. lul

 

[DanGR]

I was reading some mk matchup guide, and in their oli section, it said somethin about not being able to get below an mk if they can time uairs correctly, and if the mk times their uairs frame perfectly, oli can't get below. lul

It's true.

 

[Excellence]

It's true.

You can't Smash DI up and away, then fast call + BStick Whistle.

 

[Dyyne]

Hitbox for uair comes out on frame 2 son. If the mk can react fast enough, they can hit you during the lag frames of whistle or air dodge, and oli's floaty enough that he can't fast fall beneath him.

 

[DanGR]

You can't Smash DI up and away, then fast call + BStick Whistle.

can't or can? (typo? :O)

If you get hit by the upair and smash DI away, the MK can simply fast fall to the ground and jump up to start it all over again. He'll be in the air again before Olimar lands. That's all it takes. Frame wise, it's impossible for Olimar to get below MK. Of course you can DI away and towards the edge of the stage, but that puts you in a REALLY bad position. When you're at the edge of the stage, he can full hop an upair, fast fall, and upair again to punish any airdodge or whistle, fast falled or not.

Hitbox for uair comes out on frame 2 son. If the mk can react fast enough, they can hit you during the lag frames of whistle or air dodge, and oli's floaty enough that he can't fast fall beneath him.

and this.

I remember going over this situation in the thread that talked about how to deal with certain attacks. No one came up with anything.

 

[Excellence]

can't or can? (typo? :O)

If you get hit by the upair and smash DI away, the MK can simply fast fall to the ground and jump up to start it all over again. He'll be in the air again before Olimar lands. That's all it takes. Frame wise, it's impossible for Olimar to get below MK. Of course you can DI away and towards the edge of the stage, but that puts you in a REALLY bad position. When you're at the edge of the stage, he can full hop an upair, fast fall, and upair again to punish any airdodge or whistle, fast falled or not.


and this.

I remember going over this situation in the thread that talked about how to deal with certain attacks. No one came up with anything.

This doesn't seem like to big an issue to me even if you can't escape but what I was saying was smash DI away so that you move out of MK's range horizontally and just let him miss a hit to get yourself resituated. If he has to jump back up I think that's 2 frames to get into the air and 2 frames for the attack to come out, so you should have time to Whistle if you BStick it.

 

[DanGR]

This doesn't seem like to big an issue to me even if you can't escape but what I was saying was smash DI away so that you move out of MK's range horizontally and just let him miss a hit to get yourself resituated. If he has to jump back up I think that's 2 frames to get into the air and 2 frames for the attack to come out, so you should have time to Whistle if you BStick it.

Well, when he hits you while you're both high up in the air, he's supposed to fast fall the upair. That will get him to the ground fast enough for him to jump up (more than one jump at least) and do the same thing. If Oli whistles, he can just fast fall another upair until it hits between the SA frames. At this point, if you smash DI the upair, you're DIing offstage...

I'll have to make a video/slide show of it sometime. It's hard to explain. I do see what you're saying though.

 

[Dabuz]

ok, big problem, m2k is coming to an irl tourney on the 25th that im going to as well, i need mk+m2k tips...

 

[DanGR]

ok, big problem, m2k is coming to an irl tourney on the 25th that im going to as well, i need mk+m2k tips...

If you get matched up with him early in the brackets, tell the TO that he's a good bud of yours and that you'd greatly appreciate it if he would change it... Otherwise, I'd ask AndyG. He's played with him a bunch before.

 

[Excellence]

ok, big problem, m2k is coming to an irl tourney on the 25th that im going to as well, i need mk+m2k tips...

Didn't you play LiKanG before? I know he and M2K aren't in the same league, but I still think you could get advise from him. As far as MK goes, I'm sure you know the match-up pretty well, but you should take a look at M2K's style. If you watched the WHOBO livestream, a lot of his opponents like Dojo, JunkInTheTrunk, and DSF pointed out a few things the noted about him: When he doesn't know the match-up he spams more, he usually takes his first stock or match to learn tougher opponents; maybe you might want to trip him up and play with two or three different styles, and lastly he tends to DI UP almost always unless facing someone who usually KOs vertically, I think vertical KOs then switching to horizontal KOs might be a safe bet for you.

Good luck and after the tournament I'd like to know how it went and what you learned about the match-up.

Edit: Is DThrow > USmash an actual combo on King Dedede, Donkey Kong, R.O.B., and Bowser or are the able to escape? Maybe its just Wifi.

 

[kirbywizard]

Edit: Is DThrow > USmash an actual combo on King Dedede, Donkey Kong, R.O.B., and Bowser or are the able to escape? Maybe its just Wifi.

I usually only play on wifi, but most of the time you can nail an up smash after a down throw, D3,Dk and Bowser are so big it is easy to combo and get pikmin on them.Then again it could be wifi making it harder for these character to avoid our smashes. I always fair after a down throw most of the time.

 

[Excellence]

I usually only play on wifi, but most of the time you can nail an up smash after a down throw, D3,Dk and Bowser are so big it is easy to combo and get pikmin on them.Then again it could be wifi making it harder for these character to avoid our smashes. I always fair after a down throw most of the time.

I'd like someone with more offline experience to give me their answer, but thanks.

 

[kirbywizard]

I'd like someone with more offline experience to give me their answer, but thanks.

I wish I had more offline experience, my area in Napa Valley is very dead when it comes to Smash Bros stuff >_>. I have to rely on wifi, which ruins things as simple as pivot grabs. Also wouldnt the best thing to do against a meteknight is to play like a coward, but then agian I only have wifi T_T

 

[Dyyne]

At low percent, I don't believe it is escapable by most if any characters. And if it is, it is still a pretty reliable combo.

 

[Excellence]

I wish I had more offline experience, my area in Napa Valley is very dead when it comes to Smash Bros stuff >_>. I have to rely on wifi, which ruins things as simple as pivot grabs. Also wouldnt the best thing to do against a meteknight is to play like a coward, but then agian I only have wifi T_T

You need to travel around like I do. Anyway, no playing Meta Knight like a coward isn't the best way of fighting him. Camping is completely useless against a good Meta Knight who knows he can easily stay at 0% against any of Olimar's camping tactics. You need to stay in close to Meta Knight but just outside of his DTilt range. This way, you can punish all of his attacks while not getting tossed off stage every few seconds.

At low percent, I don't believe it is escapable by most if any characters. And if it is, it is still a pretty reliable combo.

I'm seeing people air dodge out of it. I'm working on a personal match-up guide so I'm trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work all the time.

 

[DanGR]

It's definitely a true combo- as is dthrow->fair. It may not be on Jiggs, but for sure on everyone else.

 

[Excellence]

It's definitely a true combo- as is dthrow->fair. It may not be on Jiggs, but for sure on everyone else.

Are you buffering the Up Smash or just chasing with a hyphen smash?

 

[DanGR]

Are you buffering the Up Smash or just chasing with a hyphen smash?

I buffer the run during the very end of the downthrow, follow their DI, and then run-> upsmash if they DI away from me.

 

[Excellence]

I buffer the run during the very end of the downthrow, follow their DI, and then run-> upsmash if they DI away from me.

I do the same thing offline and it works 99.9% of the time, it only fails online which means that its wifi. Man, I've got a whole list of character specific combos for EVERY freaking character.

 

[Zori]

i have not posted in a while

i love you guys

 

[asob4]

i have not posted in a while

i love you guys

/infraction


anyway, jiggs is 70-30 our favor, no matter what :/