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The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

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ChillySundance

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Let's be honest. Mewtwo has almost nothing going for him besides being promoted a little in X and Y and the recent movie. He didn't even have an important part in the game, which is arguably more important. His support is running off of fan support and almost nothing else. So people need to calm down about him getting in over jiggs, it's not gonna happen.
Promoted 'a little'? Mewtwo had a starring role in both the Genesect movie AND Pokemon Origins. He's still got more importance than Jigglypuff in Pokemon overall both as a character and as a Pokemon, being one of the strongest legendaries to exist and part of a constantly recurring theme within the game's story (DNA and genetic manipulation. I mean even mega stones embody this theme.)

I'm not a Mewtwo fan, but he's still one of the big players in the Pokemon anime and games as far as non-human characters go.
 
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Zwzchow

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We really need a poll to see what people think about them returning
-None
-Jigglypuff and not Mewtwo
-Mewtwo and not Jigglypuff
-Both

Oh, and for those saying Jiggz should be cut, I think she and Lucario should share close to the same status. They both are FORMER mascots to Pokemon, and heck Jiggs I think is more known then Lucario is honestly. So yeah Jiggs should stay if Lucario does. She's done more for Pokemon then Lucario has and ever will.
I really doubt that's the case...
Jigglypuff was mostly prominent in just the anime (Kanto arc), messing around with the crew with Sing and her popularity faded over time
and how is Jigglypuff a mascot of Pokemon O.O

Lucario on the other hand, was very popular during Gen 4 and was commonly recognized as the mascot of Gen 4. He got a role in a movie (Lucario and the Mystery of Mew) and even future (Popular) Pokemon are compared to its popularity in gen 4 (Zoroark being labeled the Lucario of BW). To top it all off, Lucario now has a Mega AND is very prominent in the competitive scene of Pokemon (With Mega Lucario being banned to Ubers)

So I can say without a doubt that Lucario is more popular and known that Jigglypuff
 

ChunkyBeef

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And we've tried arguing that rationalization to (seemingly) deaf ears despite the fact there is very clear and fortuitous reasoning as to why things were told the way they were.
I still have a hard time believing that the concept art I linked wasn't the one set on Sakurai's desk. There's just no way I can fathom that it would take them eighteen months - a year and a half - to figure out what the starters were.

Now, if it was a playable legendary that'd be a different story. From what I've read, legendaries tend to go through several revisions before they're finalized. Which certainly explains Latiken.
 
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ScubaGoomba

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Uh oh, here comes Smashchu

There is two big things that don't make a lot of sense

First, why are they debating Lucas verse Ness now? Yeah, it says "has" but you'd think that they would come to a decision by know and it would be articulated in the e-mail what the verdict was. This late in development, all the characters would be decided
Second, Sakurai confirmed that he chose Greninja before the X and Y were released. The e-mail in April said "Pokemon from X/Y." Wouldn't he know by that point who the Pokemon was. It was decided long ago.

Believe what you all want. I'm just throwing it out there. As an aside, I'd don't think cuts would matter if they are actually doing DLC. They could just bring back characters at a later date.
Thought re: Lucas/Ness: Maybe they're planning one of them to cut and release as DLC shortly after the game comes out? Or maybe as some kind of a pre-order bonus? "Pre-order Smash 4 and get a top secret hidden character download code!"
 

Zwzchow

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I still have a hard time believing that the concept art I linked wasn't the one set on Sakurai's desk. There's just no way I can fathom that it would take them eighteen months - a year and a half - to figure out what the starters were.
Why is it 18 months?

sorry to ask but can you link me the concept art? :/


Thought re: Lucas/Ness: Maybe they're planning one of them to cut and release as DLC shortly after the game comes out? Or maybe as some kind of a pre-order bonus? "Pre-order Smash 4 and get a top secret hidden character download code!"
I highly doubt that they would let a semi-clone be DLC. If not people will not be interested to get that DLC in the first place. Although pre-order bonus makes some sort of sense

Just a thought,(Important question) if DLC will be in the game, how will the in-game All Star Mode work?
 
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The Light Music Club

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We really need a poll to see what people think about them returning
-None
-Jigglypuff and not Mewtwo
-Mewtwo and not Jigglypuff
-Both



I really doubt that's the case...
Jigglypuff was mostly prominent in just the anime (Kanto arc), messing around with the crew with Sing and her popularity faded over time
and how is Jigglypuff a mascot of Pokemon O.O

Lucario on the other hand, was very popular during Gen 4 and was commonly recognized as the mascot of Gen 4. He got a role in a movie (Lucario and the Mystery of Mew) and even future (Popular) Pokemon are compared to its popularity in gen 4 (Zoroark being labeled the Lucario of BW). To top it all off, Lucario now has a Mega AND is very prominent in the competitive scene of Pokemon (With Mega Lucario being banned to Ubers)

So I can say without a doubt that Lucario is more popular and known that Jigglypuff
Stuff like this made me lead to think she was a mascot:


She was one of the most popular characters from the original anime. And did you notice when she was pretty much taken out? I think it was back when I stopped liking it, when Veronica Taylor was removed from playing Ash.

Point is, when most people think of Gen 1 Pokemon, they probably think of Pikachu, Meowth, Jiggly, and Mewtwo as the most memorable. Heck, my friends who don't like Pokemon or don't care about pokemon know Jiggly none of them no Lucario. Probably because she's been a mascot for Pokemon back when they were younger, and the fact that she has represented Pokemon in Smash Bros. for so long. I think reoccurring if over 5 seasons of an Anime is much more important than getting a one-time role in a movie. One movie compared to the amount of episodes Jiggly is in shouldn't be compared. Jiggly has gotten more screen time, that's for sure. The competitive scene shouldn't be mentioned regarding a Pokemon's popularity. Because I can garuntee you that more than 65% of Smash players pay attention to that at all. Whatever though, I gave up on Pokemon when Gen 4 came out. I still support and stomach the franchise, but I wish it would just go back to Ash, Misty, and Brock like when most of us Smash players were kids.
 

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Once September rolls in, you know atleast ONE English-Speaking Person's going to leak all the un-confirmed characters.
Them and their fancy imported Japanese 3DS'... Getting to play early... Stupid...
 
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ChunkyBeef

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Why is it 18 months?

sorry to ask but can you link me the concept art? :/
Sure. I'll quote both posts of mine with the relevant information:



Greninja (Japanese: ゲッコウガ Gekkouga)
X/Y Idea: June 2010
X/Y Conceptualized (Start): September 2010
Kid Icarus Uprising (Release): March 22nd, 2012
X/Y Release: October 12th, 2013
Timeline evidence. It's where I get the X/Y Idea and Conceptualization Start phases of X/Y's development. KI:U and X/Y's release anyone can find online. I use KI:U's release as an approximate, rough start time of Smash 4's development start, since Sakurai said he wouldn't be working on Smash 'til he saw KI:U done, so Smash 4's actual start probably was somewhere around late February/early March when KI:U went off to print and he was free to start Smash.

EDIT: So it's about seventeen/eighteen months from the time X/Y begins conceptualization and Smash 4's development start. So, MORE than enough time for them to finalize the vast majority of the Pokemon and Megas they were intending to implement into the game.
 
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The Light Music Club

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Once September rolls in, you know atleast ONE English-Speaking Person's going to leak all the un-confirmed characters.
Them and their fancy imported Japanese 3DS'... Getting to play early... Stupid...
That's why I'm leaving in September.

Sure. I'll quote both posts of mine with the relevant information:





Timeline evidence. It's where I get the X/Y Idea and Conceptualization Start phases of X/Y's development. KI:U and X/Y's release anyone can find online. I use KI:U's release as an approximate, rough start time of Smash 4's development start, since Sakurai said he wouldn't be working on Smash 'til he saw KI:U done, so Smash 4's actual start probably was somewhere around late February/early March when KI:U went off to print and he was free to start Smash.
Thank you so much for this. I feel like this would be put in the same boat for Chrom as well. It'd be only the Awakening character designs for him to go off of. I've been saying that for a while.
 
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Bedoop

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Sure. I'll quote both posts of mine with the relevant information:





Timeline evidence. It's where I get the X/Y Idea and Conceptualization Start phases of X/Y's development. KI:U and X/Y's release anyone can find online. I use KI:U's release as an approximate, rough start time of Smash 4's development start, since Sakurai said he wouldn't be working on Smash 'til he saw KI:U done, so Smash 4's actual start probably was somewhere around late February/early March when KI:U went off to print and he was free to start Smash.
Cry s'more, Mewtwo.
 

praline

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I do agree that Jigglypuff is more relevant than either of them, having been retyped and getting a lot of new moves in X/Y.
If Jigglypuff had any relevancy then how come Wigglytuff never got a mega and you can't even get a jigglypuff until right before the final gym. She also can only learn 1 fairy move naturally.
 

ChunkyBeef

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If Jigglypuff had any relevancy then how come Wigglytuff never got a mega and you can't even get a jigglypuff until right before the final gym. She also can only learn 1 fairy move naturally.
Shhh. Don't give Gamefreak any ideas. I'm sure there's another Red/Blue remake coming.
 

NoiseHERO

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I believe it's a Tales of the Abyss reference.

I can't fully remember but I think Yulia's Score was a prophecy made by a character called Yulia and everybody was living their lives based on it.
Yeah basically someone that could see the future wrote a really long "song" in an ancient magical text, that predicted thousands of future years. And everyone was living their lives based on it step by step thinking it'd be the only way to live.

Sal/gematsu being the score, us assuming it'll be 100% true making us npc's made up of ignorant masses, untill a bunch of "clones"(the game literally had clones as a major plot thing...and smash bros clones... see what I did there-) pop up to mess up the future. Funny enough I also like to call boring/basic people npc's. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER JOKE THAT ENTERS OFFENSIVE TERRITORY IN THIS CONTEXT.

Remind me never to explain a joke ever again this post feels ********, but yeah.


Also I kinda feel like this "leak" will be true, mostly because it's the right amount of vague and the right amount of safe guesses and the right amount guessed characters so far /and/ the right amount of "does this guy even know what series some of these characters are from?". I just don't think it'll be the only characters weat least one or 2 characters will probably be off.
 

Zwzchow

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Sure. I'll quote both posts of mine with the relevant information:





Timeline evidence. It's where I get the X/Y Idea and Conceptualization Start phases of X/Y's development. KI:U and X/Y's release anyone can find online. I use KI:U's release as an approximate, rough start time of Smash 4's development start, since Sakurai said he wouldn't be working on Smash 'til he saw KI:U done, so Smash 4's actual start probably was somewhere around late February/early March when KI:U went off to print and he was free to start Smash.

EDIT: So it's about seventeen/eighteen months from the time X/Y begins conceptualization and Smash 4's development start. So, MORE than enough time for them to finalize the vast majority of the Pokemon and Megas they were intending to implement into the game.
Thanks for the info! :)
Hmm also since XY was announced Jan 2013, it is safe to assume that all the new pokemon and general mechanics are done already.
And more than a year and 4 months (<Jan '13- Apr '14) should be more than enough time for Sakurai to get concept pictures of Greninja (they look awesome) and implement him into the game.
Yet until April, the leaker still calls it "Pokemon from X/Y", which is sort of suspicious due to how rather early Greninja was implemented into the game.

Don't get me wrong I support the leak, but there are definitely some questionable loopholes in it
 

HeavyLobster

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If Jigglypuff had any relevancy then how come Wigglytuff never got a mega and you can't even get a jigglypuff until right before the final gym. She also can only learn 1 fairy move naturally.
Mega Wigglytuff with Adaptability Boomburst please.
 

JaidynReiman

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I believe it's a Tales of the Abyss reference.

I can't fully remember but I think Yulia's Score was a prophecy made by a character called Yulia and everybody was living their lives based on it.
Yeah, its Tales of the Abyss. The reference fits perfectly in my opinion. :D
 

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Something I posted elsewhere:

So I went and did some math. By dividing the final roster in Brawl by the amount of characters playable in the E for All Brawl demo, and then multiplying the resulting amount by the characters playable in the Smash 4 demo, I ended up with a result of 52-53. Then I divided the final roster in Brawl (counting the Pokemon Trainer as a single character) by the amount of revealed before release characters, and multiplied that by the amount of revealed characters in Smash 4 (counting Mii as a single character) + 2 more (assuming one more veteran and newcomer reveal before release, which I think is what we're going to get), which resulted in about 52. This 52 number is also inline with the expansion amount of the previous games (and assuming all unrevealed + third parties are unlockables, it fits in with the previous Smash games' approximate starter-unlockable ratio).

So if Sal's leak is completely true, assuming Squirtle/Ivysaur/Lucas/Snake are cut while every other Brawl character returns, and this pattern holds true, we're at 47, with approximate room for five more unknown newcomers.

Someone in the K. Rool thread also brought up a good observation, of how outside the third parties, all the newcomers so far and those implicated in Sal's leak, are characters from recent games and/or revived franchises, making it appear that the newcomers being revealed before release are for marketing/promotion of other series, while the more fan popular newcomers who have nothing to promote are being saved as secrets until release (such as Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Mewtwo, etc.). It also ties into the theory that Sal's leaker is/was a guy involved in marketing, who would sensibly have access to the newcomers they plan to reveal and promote, while not having access to the more secret newcomers.
 

JaidynReiman

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Something I posted elsewhere:

So I went and did some math. By dividing the final roster in Brawl by the amount of characters playable in the E for All Brawl demo, and then multiplying the resulting amount by the characters playable in the Smash 4 demo, I ended up with a result of 52-53. Then I divided the final roster in Brawl (counting the Pokemon Trainer as a single character) by the amount of revealed before release characters, and multiplied that by the amount of revealed characters in Smash 4 (counting Mii as a single character) + 2 more (assuming one more veteran and newcomer reveal before release, which I think is what we're going to get), which resulted in about 52. This 52 number is also inline with the expansion amount of the previous games (and assuming all unrevealed + third parties are unlockables, it fits in with the previous Smash games' approximate starter-unlockable ratio).

So if Sal's leak is completely true, assuming Squirtle/Ivysaur/Lucas/Snake are cut while every other Brawl character returns, and this pattern holds true, we're at 47, with approximate room for five more unknown newcomers.

Someone in the K. Rool thread also brought up a good observation, of how outside the third parties, all the newcomers so far and those implicated in Sal's leak, are characters from recent games and/or revived franchises, making it appear that the newcomers being revealed before release are for marketing/promotion of other series, while the more fan popular newcomers who have nothing to promote are being saved as secrets until release (such as Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Mewtwo, etc.). It also ties into the theory that Sal's leaker is/was a guy involved in marketing, who would sensibly have access to the newcomers they plan to reveal and promote, while not having access to the more secret newcomers.
Well, Mewtwo wouldn't be a newcomer and he wouldn't fall into that line of thinking, but the other characters would be. I think the observation you made isn't necessarily reflective of anything, though. Still, it'd be cool if it was.
 

Omega Tyrant

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Well, Mewtwo wouldn't be a newcomer and he wouldn't fall into that line of thinking, but the other characters would be. I think the observation you made isn't necessarily reflective of anything, though. Still, it'd be cool if it was.
I'm aware Mewtwo technically isn't in the scope of the series, but he would still be a "new character" added to the Brawl cast. Regardless, the point still stands, and he's counted here as such for ease (rather than saying all Brawl vets - those 4 + Mewtwo + four more newcomers).
 
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ChillySundance

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Stuff like this made me lead to think she was a mascot:


She was one of the most popular characters from the original anime. And did you notice when she was pretty much taken out? I think it was back when I stopped liking it, when Veronica Taylor was removed from playing Ash.

Point is, when most people think of Gen 1 Pokemon, they probably think of Pikachu, Meowth, Jiggly, and Mewtwo as the most memorable. Heck, my friends who don't like Pokemon or don't care about pokemon know Jiggly none of them no Lucario. Probably because she's been a mascot for Pokemon back when they were younger, and the fact that she has represented Pokemon in Smash Bros. for so long. I think reoccurring if over 5 seasons of an Anime is much more important than getting a one-time role in a movie. One movie compared to the amount of episodes Jiggly is in shouldn't be compared. Jiggly has gotten more screen time, that's for sure. The competitive scene shouldn't be mentioned regarding a Pokemon's popularity. Because I can garuntee you that more than 65% of Smash players pay attention to that at all. Whatever though, I gave up on Pokemon when Gen 4 came out. I still support and stomach the franchise, but I wish it would just go back to Ash, Misty, and Brock like when most of us Smash players were kids.
Pokemon anime =/= the games though. It's almost an entirely separate canon. Right now Pokemon is all about Lucario, Pikachu, (sometimes) Mewtwo and whatever starter Ash happens to be training at the time.

Also, Mewtwo's been in something like 3 major movies. Lucario's been in at least 1 possibly more (I'm not keeping track), had large roles in two of the main games (Gen 6 had this entire thing where Lucario was the historically the first Pokemon to Mega evolve and Corrina gets way more attention as a gym leader than any of the others...and her two Lucarios.)

Jigglypuff also never really did anything of note beyond serve as comedy relief in early episodes of the anime. I'm honestly surprised Meowth has never been chosen for Smash instead.

Mega Lucario also got covered recently in the anime for something like 5 episodes in a row, which is a disproportionately long time for the anime to spend on just one Pokemon.

Surprised you didn't list Charizard as one of gen 1's golden babies. Most people think of Charizard, Pikachu, Meowth, Mewtwo and Jiggly when gen 1 is mentioned.

Again, Lucario is hardly a 'former' Pokemon mascot. He's still currently a relevant mascot and has been for 3 generations in a row, which is more than we can say for Jiggly's 1 (arguably 2, but Jiggly had like no presence in 2nd gen). He even has his own special mascot costume on Pokemon Smash.

I run a Pokemon fan group and while it's only around 2500ish members, Lucario is like the 2nd most commonly picked Pokemon on teams after Eevee. Those things are -everywhere-.
 
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Shroob

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Uh oh, here comes Smashchu

There is two big things that don't make a lot of sense

First, why are they debating Lucas verse Ness now? Yeah, it says "has" but you'd think that they would come to a decision by know and it would be articulated in the e-mail what the verdict was. This late in development, all the characters would be decided
Second, Sakurai confirmed that he chose Greninja before the X and Y were released. The e-mail in April said "Pokemon from X/Y." Wouldn't he know by that point who the Pokemon was. It was decided long ago.

Believe what you all want. I'm just throwing it out there. As an aside, I'd don't think cuts would matter if they are actually doing DLC. They could just bring back characters at a later date.
So.... just to ask a question.... What's your opinion on the Sneaky Spirit in Smash Run? Only playable franchises have been shown to have enemies, besides the SSE of course.
 
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ChillySundance

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Even if it wasn't just enemies from playable franchises being represented, a rhythm heaven enemy in smash run of all things is a really odd choice. There's so many other actual enemy-enemies from other more traditional franchises that could have gotten in over that.

Feels like they really went out of their way to find something from Rhythm Heaven that could serve as an enemy...
 
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Shroob

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Even if it wasn't just enemies from playable franchises being represented, a rhythm heaven enemy in smash run of all things is a really odd choice. There's so many other actual enemy-enemies from other more traditional franchises that could have gotten in over that.

Feels like they really went out of their way to find something from Rhythm Heaven that could serve as an enemy...
I'm really hoping that Mother gets something as an enemy. The nice thing is that we most likely haven't seen every enemy, but we're still sitting on nothing from Mother.
 

NoiseHERO

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So this chorus man guy or marshall or whatever.

I loved rhythm heaven but...... I'd rather be the ninja dog.

Then again in one of the trailers marshal DID get beyonce to do a deep throat face-WHAT AM I TYPING.
 

PlayfulMushroom

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Just asking, why do people still believe in Ridley? Wasn't he basically deconfirmed when they showed the shadow of the Metroid stage hazard?
 
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BelowZer0

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People took that as a hint that he is in because why wouldn't Sakurai just show off Ridley as a boss if is the boss of that stage
 

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Just asking, why do people still believe in Ridley? Wasn't he basically deconfirmed when they showed the shadow of the Metroid stage hazard?
It was a very indirect way to deconfirm someone when every single other character had been deconfirmed directly, with absolutely no questions as to their status as playable or not. So, yeah, some people took that as a hint that Ridley is playable, which is why hope remains.
 

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Just asking, why do people still believe in Ridley? Wasn't he basically deconfirmed when they showed the shadow of the Metroid stage hazard?
Numerous, numerous reasons.

1.) All character disconfirmations have been blatantly obvious.
2.) Sakurai never said Ridley was actually a boss, just that bosses appear on other stages.
3.) Ridley is way too small to be an effective boss, and Ridley is always known as being huge as well.
4.) Ridley is too slow to be an effective boss.
5.) Ridley never attacks in the video whatsoever.
6.) Palutena was teased like crazy and was later announced, just like with Ridley.
7.) Not only was Palutena teased, she was also shown off as a statue and stated to be "watching over the battlefield", teased in a very similar way as Ridley.
8.) Pyrosphere was not available in the demo at all, despite being one of the earliest known stages.
9.) Ridley is one of, if not THE most requested character additions in the game.
10.) Sakurai wouldn't hype up a character for months and months on end just to show off a lazy and slow boss.
11.) We always get new villains in every game. The biggest Nintendo villains left are Ridley and King K. Rool.


Please keep in mind, I'm not a Ridley fanboy. I barely know anything about Metroid. If Ridley doesn't end up as playable, its not going to bother me a whole lot. I just think its blatantly obvious that Ridley is actually playable at this point and the Gematsu leak isn't all we have for Newcomers. The leaked Newcomers are simply being used to promote recent and upcoming games which is how our leaker (speculated to be in marketing) got a hold of these leaks.
 

the man

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I just thought of something kind of crazy. What if the "villager" that Sal mentioned in one of his leaks was referring to the villager from Fire Emblem: Awakening?

Assuming that his roster prediction isn't 100% accurate.
 
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RamOne

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I just thought of something kind of crazy. What if the "villager" that Sal mentioned in one of his leaks was referring to the villager from Fire Emblem: Awakening?
Didn't Sal mention Animal Crossing Villager Guy?
And besides that, it wouldn't even make sense to mention Donnel (if he's who you're talking about). He isn't a main character in that game and can even be missed recruiting him.
 

TheAnvil

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I just thought of something kind of crazy. What if the "villager" that Sal mentioned in one of his leaks was referring to the villager from Fire Emblem: Awakening?

Assuming that his roster prediction isn't 100% accurate.
He never mentioned "Villager". Only "Animal Crossing Guy".
 

the man

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One can dream.

On a serious note, I thought he mentioned "villager guy." Not too specific so it leaves some options open.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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One can dream.

On a serious note, I thought he mentioned "villager guy." Not too specific so it leaves some options open.
Nope. He said "Animal Crossing Guy". No matter how you look at it, it's a character from Animal Crossing. Villager was the most obvious one since we knew he was considered. At least some people saw it that way, while others hoped for Tom Nook.
 

Bauske

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I still have a hard time believing that the concept art I linked wasn't the one set on Sakurai's desk. There's just no way I can fathom that it would take them eighteen months - a year and a half - to figure out what the starters were.

Now, if it was a playable legendary that'd be a different story. From what I've read, legendaries tend to go through several revisions before they're finalized. Which certainly explains Latiken.
You are once again assuming the leaker has information outside of E3, let alone information outside of the initial list he received over a year ago. Sakurai could have very well picked Greninja before X and Y's release, but not before E3 last year. He never specified. He just said they had an idea to do an X and Y Pokemon, but hadn't decided on which for a bit.

What I'm saying it you may be right in one regard but other people are right in another. It's not black or white. Maybe the leaker got the list back before E3 last year from someone else. He leaked it to Sal. This is the list he has, so for an entire year the stuff is slightly outdated. Then, come this year's E3, he gets new info, which would explain the "Mii Fighter" thing.

I think Sal's leaker isn't tied closely to Nintendo or E3 at all, but might know someone who is. I have no idea, but Sakurai did state that at one point a Pokemon from X and Y had not been decided upon. Couldn't Greninja very well have been decided upon after E3 last year, yet before X and Y?
 
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