The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[bigman40]

5:5? you wish D:
According to the metaknight boards, his worst matchups are 70:30

Where's this thread please? We've had Metaknight mainers discuss the matchup with us, and it was agree at 4.5:5.5 Metaknight's advantage. (and that one had a LONG discussion too)

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Every board is biased toward their character and doesn't accurately portray their matchups.

 

[gantrain05]

so what? ok, were arguing that metaknight actually has ONE matchup that is even.....ONE matchup, and its 55/45 MK advantage....thats not really an argument that he isnt broken, because yoshi is still pretty bad, and have one bad character in the entire game that has an ALMOST neutral match against him doesn't mean anything when yoshi gets wrecked by any other character.

 

[Mmac]

so what? ok, were arguing that metaknight actually has ONE matchup that is even.....ONE matchup, and its 55/45 MK advantage....thats not really an argument that he isnt broken, because yoshi is still pretty bad, and have one bad character in the entire game that has an ALMOST neutral match against him doesn't mean anything when yoshi gets wrecked by any other character.

Scientific Fact, If he doesn't get destroyed by the best character in the game, what makes you think he's going to get destroyed by everyone else?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Who is this "he"?

also there are plenty of character-specific counters lol

bad logic there

 

[Barge]

And I dont think Yoshi would be low-low tier if he could counter Metaknight

 

[bigman40]

And I dont think Yoshi would be low-low tier if he could counter Metaknight

Yoshi currently has low tournament results to back his placement. I should be getting to a few tournaments (whenever I get the chance), so It'll rise sooner or later....

 

[gantrain05]

Scientific Fact, If he doesn't get destroyed by the best character in the game, what makes you think he's going to get destroyed by everyone else?

well...basically, yoshi does get destroyed by every character besides maybe ganon and capn falcon. he's a bad character, and guess what, bowser doesn't get destroyed by metaknight either, but he's still a bad character. and he's even one of my mains, you need to learn to admit when your main just isn't as good as most of the cast, you can get good with him, and you may beat better characters, but all that means is your the better player, i've accepted my mains as low tier characters (bowser/ness/fox/ganon) but that doesn't mean i won't play them......but i know they suck.

 

[Mmac]

well...basically, yoshi does get destroyed by every character besides maybe ganon and capn falcon. he's a bad character, and guess what, bowser doesn't get destroyed by metaknight either, but he's still a bad character. and he's even one of my mains, you need to learn to admit when your main just isn't as good as most of the cast, you can get good with him, and you may beat better characters, but all that means is your the better player, i've accepted my mains as low tier characters (bowser/ness/fox/ganon) but that doesn't mean i won't play them......but i know they suck.

Except your entire rant is completely flawed from the fact Bowser is Middle of Mid Tier, and pretty much better than half the roster. Unless you think that half the roster is completely flawed and useless too, including your precious Peach.

You really think that Yoshi can hold his ground only against those 3?

oh wait, MetaKnight dropped to Bottom Tier now, didn't he

 

[Zinc Elemental]

so what? ok, were arguing that metaknight actually has ONE matchup that is even.....ONE matchup, and its 55/45 MK advantage....thats not really an argument that he isnt broken, because yoshi is still pretty bad, and have one bad character in the entire game that has an ALMOST neutral match against him doesn't mean anything when yoshi gets wrecked by any other character.

Yoshi is MK's worst match-up? This is news to me.

 

[adumbrodeus]

well...basically, yoshi does get destroyed by every character besides maybe ganon and capn falcon. he's a bad character, and guess what, bowser doesn't get destroyed by metaknight either, but he's still a bad character. and he's even one of my mains, you need to learn to admit when your main just isn't as good as most of the cast, you can get good with him, and you may beat better characters, but all that means is your the better player, i've accepted my mains as low tier characters (bowser/ness/fox/ganon) but that doesn't mean i won't play them......but i know they suck.

Wrong, yoshi does not... period.

There are plenty of examples, but ZSS is a reasonable one to posit here (60-40 or 50-50 depending on which board you ask, oh and the 60-40 is Yoshi's advantage).

Really, he's got an awesome grab game and chain grabs a number of characters. He richly deserves a mid tier position, but he's HORRIBLY underplayed, and is thus underestimated greatly.

Yoshi is MK's worst match-up? This is news to me.

Yep, turns out Yoshi chaingrabs him to ****, along with a number of other characters.

Granted, MK has the tools to generally avoid it, (otherwise ICs would be top tier, but Yoshi has an easier time getting it off then they do), and I don't think it's an auto-kill, but it's a very signifigant advantage in the match-up.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Yep, turns out Yoshi chaingrabs him to ****, along with a number of other characters.

Granted, MK has the tools to generally avoid it, (otherwise ICs would be top tier, but Yoshi has an easier time getting it off then they do), and I don't think it's an auto-kill, but it's a very signifigant advantage in the match-up.

I wasn't saying it wasn't good for Yoshi. It's about even, I'd agree.

My point was to counter the "if Yoshi isn't even with him, no one is" argument.

 

[Mmac]

My point was to counter the "if Yoshi isn't even with him, no one is" argument.

I don't really recall an argument on that.....

Plus I think Diddy Kong is Even also

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't really recall an argument on that.....

Plus I think Diddy Kong is Even also

Zelda supposedly as well, though it's only at REALLY high levels of play.

 

[Mmac]

Zelda supposedly as well, though it's only at REALLY high levels of play.

I thought Zelda was well known to be disadvantaged though, even Zelda mains say so.

Edit: I didn't see the High Level part, but aren't all matchup threads based on the highest level of play?

 

[Corigames]

Your characters are still bad whether you can beat MK players or not. A competent one would beat you. End Of Discussion.

 

[MyNameIsRyan]

How is Wolf lower then Lucario, Pit, and Wario? Dont get me wrong I love Wario but Wolf is better.

 

[gantrain05]

How is Wolf lower then Lucario, Pit, and Wario? Dont get me wrong I love Wario but Wolf is better.

you should read up on the boards a little, wario is quite a bit better than wolf.

 

[pandreson]

No advertizing

 

[Barge]

Mega Micro Games. Mario Party Advance. Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland. The Legend of Zelda The Minish Cap. Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories. Emulador de GBA para la PC. Visual Boy Advance. Esta pagina agradece a todos sus patrocinadores.
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pandreson

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What does this have to do with the tier list

 

[Turbo Ether]

Your characters are still bad whether you can beat MK players or not. A competent one would beat you. End Of Discussion.

Pretty much.

 

[kr3wman]

What does this have to do with the tier list

I would guess it's someone trying to get us into his ROMs and EMU site, but I'm too afraid of getting my keys logged.

 

[metaXzero]

Mega Micro Games. Mario Party Advance. Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland. The Legend of Zelda The Minish Cap. Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories. Emulador de GBA para la PC. Visual Boy Advance. Esta pagina agradece a todos sus patrocinadores.
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pandreson

online ads

Ban this *** NAO!!!

Also, Reported.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I don't really recall an argument on that.....

Plus I think Diddy Kong is Even also

Gantrain was trying to say that Yoshi was MK's worst and only near neutral match-up, so that if Yoshi wasn't even even, then MK must be broken.

so what? ok, were arguing that metaknight actually has ONE matchup that is even.....ONE matchup, and its 55/45 MK advantage....thats not really an argument that he isnt broken, because yoshi is still pretty bad, and have one bad character in the entire game that has an ALMOST neutral match against him doesn't mean anything when yoshi gets wrecked by any other character.

I think Diddy is even as well. A few others are arguable as well.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

*Sigh*

Diddy vs MK is NOT neutral. It's 60:40 MK's favour. Ask NL or whoever knows about Diddy, it's not neutral and neither are his match-up's with Snake, DK or Yoshi.

Metaknights worst match-up is Metaknight himself

 

[Barge]

*Sigh*

Diddy vs MK is NOT neutral. It's 60:40 MK's favour. Ask NL or whoever knows about Diddy, it's not neutral and neither are his match-up's with Snake, DK or Yoshi.

Metaknights worst match-up is Metaknight himself

^ This

10metaknights

 

[Zinc Elemental]

*Sigh*

Diddy vs MK is NOT neutral. It's 60:40 MK's favour. Ask NL or whoever knows about Diddy, it's not neutral and neither are his match-up's with Snake, DK or Yoshi.

Metaknights worst match-up is Metaknight himself

No one's denying the MK mirror.
However, Diddy is close to even, if not even. It's not a significant advantage for MK at the very least. Diddy has more answers (mainly the bananas) to MK where no one else does.

I'd say it's 45-55 at the worst for Diddy.

 

[SmashChu]

Pretty much.

Pretty much NOT

Skill takes presidence over the Tier list. It's not that a Great Capt. Falcon can be beat by a decent Meta-Knight. No. If the Capt. Falcon is a better player, he will win.

People see the tier list as some kind of holy bible. It's a guideline at best.

 

[AntiPyroShyGuy]

How the f*cking hell did Bowser reach the middle tier?

He is slow as hell
99% of his attacks have lag
You can actually combo this f*cker due to how big he is
You'd have to be stupid to be caught in flame breath
Vertical recovery is total crap
Low jumps
Can be punished easily when he hits the ground



All he has is being heavy,being powerful, and bowsercide.

You'd have to be dumb to be bowsercided too.

 

[Ankyfdarkness]

This is by far the most accuret tier.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Pretty much NOT

Skill takes presidence over the Tier list. It's not that a Great Capt. Falcon can be beat by a decent Meta-Knight. No. If the Capt. Falcon is a better player, he will win.

People see the tier list as some kind of holy bible. It's a guideline at best.

Uh, no. Captain Falcon has no chance of beating MK. The tier list is based on the highest level of play, maximum potential. MK played at highest level, knowing the matchups, doesn't lose to garbage characters.

 

[Tragil]

I like knowing that yoshi is a low tier character, it makes me want to main him even more than I already do. Gives me an advantage from the beginning of the match, because they think they have the match in the bag. MIND GAMES.

 

[Mmac]

Gantrain was trying to say that Yoshi was MK's worst and only near neutral match-up, so that if Yoshi wasn't even even, then MK must be broken.

I thought his point was that he's more trashier than Ganondorf and Falcon even though he can hold his own against the best character in the game. Frankly I think his logic fails badly.

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, even though he is an well known Anti-Yoshi Troll anyways.

How the f*cking hell did Bowser reach the middle tier?

He is slow as hell
99% of his attacks have lag
You can actually combo this f*cker due to how big he is
You'd have to be stupid to be caught in flame breath
Vertical recovery is total crap
Low jumps
Can be punished easily when he hits the ground



All he has is being heavy,being powerful, and bowsercide.

You'd have to be dumb to be bowsercided too.

-He's not that slow
-Hell no. He's actually not that laggy at all
-True
-Half True. Sometimes he puts you into a spot where avoiding it is next to impossible
-Meh, Horizontal Recovery is more important than Vertical recovery anyways
-Low Jumps is actually a benefit
-Not really at all. This is pretty much true with every character in the game.

And no at bowsercide. You try dodging a near lagless grab that has decent range and can snag you out of the air even.

 

[OverLade]

Pretty much NOT

Skill takes presidence over the Tier list. It's not that a Great Capt. Falcon can be beat by a decent Meta-Knight. No. If the Capt. Falcon is a better player, he will win.

People see the tier list as some kind of holy bible. It's a guideline at best.

No.

Play a GOOD metaknight player and come back and try saying that again.

If M2K mained captain falcon, do you think he'd win any tournaments? No. Any GOOD metaknight would still beat his Captain falcon simply becasue Falcon has NOTHING on metaknight. Most of the other matchups arent set in stone, but there are certain characters a good Metaknight will NEVER lose to.

M2k's MK 3 stocked Azens Ike. And not because Azen sucks. Its because Ike has NOTHING on a good Metaknight. Power means nothing if you're slow enough to get read like a book every time. Other characters are caught in a similar trap. The skill of the player is as limited as the character.

Many MetaKnight users including well known Completive ones have agreed that Yoshi is MK's hardest matchup, if you don't count Ditto's.

Source plox? I've never heard this.

I think MK's hardest matchups go something like this.

1.Metaknight
2. Snake
3. Wario
4. Diddy
5. Falco
6. Lucario

I might move around Wario, Diddy or Falco depending on the player, but these are the character that seem to have beaten PRO metaknights in finals at tourneys (SK92, Ninjalink, Futile/Reflex, Azen).

 

[Turbo Ether]

Bowser's sideB is the best command throw in the game. He has good grab release options, one of which is sideB.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I thought his point was that he's more trashier than Ganondorf and Falcon even though he can hold his own against the best character in the game. Frankly I think his logic fails badly.

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, even though he is an well known Anti-Yoshi Troll anyways.

It could be that I'm reading it wrong as well. We both agree he's wrong, though, so it's not worth arguing.

I think MK's hardest matchups go something like this.

1.Metaknight
2. Snake
3. Wario
4. Diddy
5. Falco
6. Lucario

I might move around Wario, Diddy or Falco depending on the player, but these are the character that seem to have beaten PRO metaknights in finals at tourneys (SK92, Ninjalink, Futile/Reflex, Azen).

Yoshi not in hardest match-ups and Wario as 2nd best non-ditto for the lose.
Whether or not he's the best against him, Yoshi has a lot of game on MK.
Diddy should be up more.
Other than that, it's debatable.

 

[OverLade]

Yoshi not in hardest match-ups and Wario as 2nd best non-ditto for the lose.
Whether or not he's the best against him, Yoshi has a lot of game on MK.
Diddy should be up more.
Other than that, it's debatable.

I think a lot of it has to do more with people not knowing how to fight Wario than Wario being that good vs. MK. M2K even posted a thread asking how to fight wario.

But you're probably right. A good Diddy or Falco are probably harder, though I wouldn't say by that much.

 

[Mmac]

M2k's MK 3 stocked Azens Ike. And not because Azen sucks. Its because Ike has NOTHING on a good Metaknight. Power means nothing if you're slow enough to get read like a book every time.

Personally, I think Ike is grossly overrated. He's just too slow, and just gets overwhelmed by anyone who has a decent defencive game. His only fast moves are his Jab (Which is actually pretty good, and can combo into some things), His Bair (Hard to hit and has tons of landing lag), and his Dsmash (Pathetic Range, and afterlag). His recovery is also something not to be proud of. His matchup's are terrible and even worser than Jigglypuffs.

He can punish extremely well though, but in professional levels, they usually don't leave themselves open for long.

Source plox? I've never heard this.

There was a few discussions on MetaKnight vs. Yoshi on the MetaKnight Forums from a few months back. There also was some debate with M2K in the old (And stupid) "Should MetaKnight be banned" thread. I recall somewhere him saying that MetaKnight had a slight advantage, but [Yoshi] is one of the harder matchups. Yoshi also been mention alot in numerous "Hardest Matchups" threads in the MK Forums.

Although if you know what Yoshi's can do, especially against MetaKnight, it's kinda hard not to see why he does so well against him.

 

[OverLade]

Personally, I think Ike is grossly overrated. He's just too slow, and just gets overwhelmed by anyone who has a decent defencive game. His only fast moves are his Jab (Which is actually pretty good, and can combo into some things), His Bair (Hard to hit and has tons of landing lag), and his Dsmash (Pathetic Range, and afterlag). His recovery is also something not to be proud of. His matchup's are terrible and even worser than Jigglypuffs.

He can punish extremely well though, but in professional levels, they usually don't leave themselves open for long.

I was addressing the "tiers are for queers" guy. Obviously that's WHY M2K 3 stocked Azens Ike. Because Ike has NO CHANCE against Metaknight at the pro level.

There was a few discussions on MetaKnight vs. Yoshi on the MetaKnight Forums from a few months back. There also was some debate with M2K in the old (And stupid) "Should MetaKnight be banned" thread. I recall somewhere him saying that MetaKnight had a slight advantage, but [Yoshi] is one of the harder matchups. Yoshi also been mention alot in numerous "Hardest Matchups" threads in the MK Forums.

I think that all has more to do with NOBODY PLAYING Yoshi. So people aren't use to fighting him, therefore making it a difficult matchup. If you don't know what to expect, it's going to be harder.

I will say that Yoshi does have quit a few nice tricks on MK, and saying he isn't one of the better Matchups vs. MK would probably be wrong. But saying he's the Hardest non ditto matchup is not even close. >_>

 

[JakobFe]

Metaknight has a definite edge over diddy.


However, NinjaLink still kicked M2K's butt.

JK they're both good players.