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This is false. I actually don't care where Sonic is right now, as it's still pretty low, as I expected. I'm actually one of the only Sonic mains on these boards that actually isn't complaining about his position on this list. However, for you to say that speed is the only thing Sonic has going for him is incorrect and I will call it out as such.
You'd be surprised. I actually think Wolf should be lower.
I feel it's well justified. Though, if I had my way with it, I'd switch him around with Marth, not because ROB is worse, but because Marth is better.
I expect posts like this from random scrubs, not people who most of the time act with intelligence such as yourself.
His combos are extremely predictable though, and he doesnt have much power =/I expect posts like this from random scrubs, not people who most of the time act with intelligence such as yourself.
Sonic has no kill moves. Granted, kinda. Fsmash will kill mid weight characters (like Marth) from the centre of Final Destination at 110%, 135% with full DI. Dsmash will kill at 140% with full DI, and bair at 150% I think, though it star KO's at a lower percent if they DI upwards in mid air. None of these are particularly hard to land.
No priority. Only a few of Sonic's moves have really bad priority, the rest have pretty decent priority. Sonic has 3 attacks that give him useful invincibility frames too. Priority's not as bad as people make it out to be, have you even played as Sonic, ever?
The light thing just made me disregard that you had any knowledge of Sonic at all, aside the bullshit that parrots still randomly spout often without any justification or actual information. There are 20 characters lighter than Sonic. TWENTY. If Sonic's light, that makes everyone else paperweight, right? He's an upper middle weight along with Mario, actually.
And he has one projectile, which REALLY messes with some characters offstage.
Know what you're talking about next time, or don't post.
Someone who agrees with me! Yey!
Sonic isn't predictable. The person you're playing is.
Yeah, it's OK. However, I don't understand how he can be an enitre tier above Marth...
I'd move GaW down a bit, but otherwise I'd say that's pretty accurate.
You fail. It's an approximately even (slight advantage for MK at best) match-up, so it's certainly not his hardest when Diddy has match-ups more than slight disadvantages for him (like Falco).
I haven't seen anyone argue against where he is. O_o
It's 60:40 for MK. Diddy has no worse match-up than that afaik. Maybe falco but that doesn't change the fact, that MK is one of Diddys harder match-up.
See, I understand what you're trying to say, but that's inaccurate. Sonic's difficulty killing is a disadvantage for him. Unless he gets a good gimp off the side, he needs to get characters much higher than most would to kill.
I'd say 55-45.
My thoughts exactly (even down to the characters who I think rival his placing...perhaps I have a criminal mind?). I'm no Wolf expert, but I suppose I can give my opinions on the matter...
Kirby is pretty good, you would be surprised.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and risk being flamed.
It might, Metaknight is easy to play, which is one of the reasons everyone uses him, and since pit is high tier, that may prove that it does as well, ability to play a character can affect their tier placement.
He's got a spammy projectile, a regular A spam, a reflector shield, wings, what DOESN'T he have? [/brawltaunts]
I'd disagree with you about the two-dimensional thing. You said wolf is either very campy or offensive... why can't he be a blend of both? Wolf has the luxury of being able to be both offensive and defensive, which not too many characters have. He's also got tools for dealing with a lot of things - a reflector that doubles as a counter, a fantastic projectile, great air movement, and a touch of unpredictability... I think if the right mixups are employed, a wolf player could overwhelm opponents easily. He often has more options than many characters.
well, his balls havent dropped.
Recovery. If he gets hit, he can't use his Up B again, and projectiles are a very low-risk way to gimp his recovery.
Oh, I thought you meant on land, Yeah, his recovery is easily gimpable. Try to travel to the other side then.
Yoshi, Samus, and Pokemon Trainer.
Sonic's kill moves: Bair, F-smash, D-smash, Uair (off the top). But Sonic focuses on edgeguarding and easy gimps. The best moves for this are up B, dair, bair, fair homming attack, and nair.
Up B spring is actually a great projectile for gimping. Not to mention that Sonic can get out of pretty much every bad situation by simply up Bing.Not lower then Falcon but possibly lower then characters like link.
Sonic has nothing but speed, which alone isn't very good.
No priority, no kill moves , no weight and no projectiles are a reason he belongs below link.
Link has all of those, just not sonics speed.
-Bowser King
ASC->fair does 27ish damage, has great priority, and is a true combo (no airdodge for you!)Barge said:
I say this because I know the character well enough to realize that the stereotypes about him are untrue and simply scrubbish remarks made after brawl's release. Having a high learning curve does not make a character bad (points at Fox in melee). Sonic is and always will be a low tier character. But 33rd is completely unreasonable, especially considering his tournament results put him as 26thCommander Blitzkrieg said:
QFT my friend
Especially Olimar, considering I always see him being used in tournies.You see, your problem is your wrong. Heck, it says it in the first post
Potential. See, Better Capt. Falcon can beat Meta-Knight. The Captain Falcon is the better player. The definition of tier are a ranking of the characters that when skill is equal the higher tier character should win. You can see many other competative fighters from other games beat high tier characters with low ones. It doesn't mean that 100% of the time Meta-Knight will beat anyone lower. That's just plain stupid.
1.What your saying is not new by any means. Of course a low tier character can beat a high tier character if the player is significantly better than their opponent. But many times with bottom tier characters like Falcon, the skill gap required is simply not feasible in high level play (as the Metaknights would actually be...good).
Knowledge of the character is something that will go a long way. A captain Falcon that knows Meta-Knight's should be their greatest fear, not DK. You know DK, but in a game like Brawl (one without game defining techniques) that knowing what the opponent will do means all the difference.
Well, for one, a lot of the higher characters are counters. So this greatly influences the tier list (a major reason why it is inaccurate).
Preaching to the choir man.
It is.
I know that. This is exactly what you said in the last post.
Again, read my post. Never did I imply that Meta-Knight was not top, nor that a low their characters beating a high tier moves them up in the tier list.
Top level players will know how to fight them, or at least have the ability to come up with a suitable strategy after a match against said player. And the top tier characters have more than enough tools to simply create devestating traps and brickwalls while the player figures out how to fight against said low tier.
Yeah, for like a match or two. But typically the low tier characters already have a disadvantage against the high tier character, so the lack of knowledge of the high tier player mearly evens the matchup or tips it slightly in the more knowledgable player's favor (temporarily).
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this, please elaborate.
Once again, this is a little confusing. Do you mean that the low tier might have an advantage over the top tier, but it's overlooked because the low tier character is unpopular? Or do you mean that the top tier player may not know how to fight the low tier character, and thus the low tier character would have an advantage as a result?
Of course the matchups can't be 100% accurate. But hopefully they will become accurate enough to base opinions off them and predict outcomes of matches consistantly (if they don't the the matchups need to be changed).
I disagree that the low tiers would be virtually ignored. We are looking for characters that may have an advantage against Metaknight, specifically because he is the most popular character. That's how we found that Link has an even matchup with Marth, and that Young Link has a slight advantage on Peach in melee.
