The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[gantrain05]

jesus, whats with the fox bashing? i'd think people would have come to at least respect fox as a decent character by now. and marsulas, you forgot snake, fox does very well against snake, the second most common character among tournament play.

 

[Umby]

jesus, whats with the fox bashing? i'd think people would have come to at least respect fox as a decent character by now. and marsulas, you forgot snake, fox does very well against snake, the second most common character among tournament play.

I hate to nag and nitpick, but I don't think that should be used in reasoning either, unless Fox had a number of exceptional matchups vs top tiers. I mean, it's good thing for Fox and all, but should it be a factor in his placing and respect for the character? Not really.

 

[Kinzer]

Nobody was trashing Fox... at least not too much at that.

And people still think we Sonic mains get all pissy when somebody talks trash about our character? As long as you have stuff to back yourself up with, you won't get put on the grill.

 

[-Mars-]

I hate to nag and nitpick, but I don't think that should be used in reasoning either, unless Fox had a number of exceptional matchups vs top tiers. I mean, it's good thing for Fox and all, but should it be a factor in his placing and respect for the character? Not really.

Somebody brought up Foxs' horrible matchups and with the exception of MK and G&W, none are commonly seen in tournament play.

 

[Umby]

Hey Kinzer. Your character sucks.

Spoiler

He has a ****ty matchup vs Luigi ffs.

 

[Kinzer]

Spoiler

Dude, Weegee can't dream of being any worse than 6:4, start lurking the Sonic boards again and you would know this by now, man.

I guess that was my fault, since Wario isn't even seen in tourneys too often unless you're down in TX.

 

[Umby]

Well, I could lurk the Sonic boards and get information from people who play wifi too often



or I can play dentedglass's Luigi every time I see him.



The latter usually works a lot better.

 

[Kinzer]

You suck then, you wouldn't get your *** handed to you if you looked up the information on our boards on how to beat Weegee then.

Bah whatever, Sonic boards are going to get boring again.

Besides that we all have gone to tourneys by now, and we play Wi-Fi because we don't have anything better to do...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Well, I could lurk the Sonic boards and get information from people who play wifi too often



or I can play dentedglass's Luigi every time I see him.



The latter usually works a lot better.

Or I could steal your pizza.

Smooth Criminal

 

[gantrain05]

i just have one question, for all the million sonics on these boards, why is it that i NEVER see any sonics at any tournies in the midwest? you hedgehogs don't like the midwest or what? there are waay to many G&W here so i guess thats understandable.

 

[Kinzer]

We're all on the EC man, and there are like barely less down in the SW (*cough* TX *cough*). Everywhere else is dead.

Besides that, a Sonic who knows his matchup against G&W won't even have too much trouble, the ratio is only 65:35 on paper.

 

[Camalange]

Well, it seems most of the hedgehogs inhabit the East Coast. We have a crapload from NY and PA alone.

Wow Kinzer, way to beat me to it.

 

[HeroMystic]

There needs to be more Sonic mains in Florida.

Marth mains get boring after awhile.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you want sonics to go to midwest tourneys, you need toeither

1. ban pikachu so anther will be forced to use sonic or
2. find a way to get shugo-sempai transportation.

p.s. i stand by my comment that sonic as a character is better than fox as a character.
also i kinda forgot, but sonic can lock fox from 0-50 so it might make the individual matchup in sonics favor as well.

what Fox has on sonic (as a general character)
upsmash. a kill move that kills before 120
up tilt a garanteed combo move.
down air, an amazing punishment move.
laser. a decent projectile that allows him to camp characters with out a projectile.
the ability to punish things harder

What sonic has on fox
Recovery.
Momentum canceling.
Variety which makes for better mindgames and better ways to bait, which allows for
the ability to punish things more often.
Speed. which is very useful for.
easy to set up tech chases.
an above average gimp game.

to be honest, they have about the same priority and range even though sonic is slightly taller.

some things on the list have different weights. thats a given but i think sonic is the better character.

 

[Umby]

You suck then, you wouldn't get your *** handed to you if you looked up the information on our boards on how to beat Weegee then.

Bah whatever, Sonic boards are going to get boring again.

Besides that we all have gone to tourneys by now, and we play Wi-Fi because we don't have anything better to do...

Sonic boards matchups are biased in any case from what I recall. At one point I remember someone calling Sonic vs D3 an almost even matchup, which is not true it all.

Furthermore, whether not I win or lose vs a Luigi has nothing to do of whether I consider it a bad mactchup, so yes, I have beaten competent Luigi's before, and know key points of the matchup. Fact is, playing the better Luigi's, I can tell that Luigi has all the tools to shut Sonic down, and he doesn't have to try hard to do it.

Wifi is trash. If you have nothing better to do, then you should familiarize yourself with the process of doing your parents' taxes.

Or I could steal your pizza.

Smooth Criminal

You'd have to, since I would win it from you at the next tournament we attend. I'll just counterpick with Roy's Island and win.

 

[-Mars-]

Putting better momentum cancelling as one of the reasons as to why your character is better is comical.

Ganon has better momentum cancelling than Ike...........so what?

Fox can also camp characters that do have a projectile.

I love how every Sonic player chose to just ignore my points.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'd LOVE to see Fox outcamp the likes of ROB, DDD, or even Falco.

Smooth Criminal

 

[M@v]

I hate to say this, but don't go by the Fox matchup thread.....most of the people that post in the thread are a complete joke.

Yeah, but this is true at a lot of places(Thats why there are character backrooms)....also, dont forget we covered all of the disadvantaged matchups 1st, since people needed the most help with them naturally. Every matchup we have coming up for fox shouldnt be any worse than 55:45.

As mentioned, the two most often seen bad news bears for fox in tourneys are mk and G&W. Also, you have to watch out for marth.

I'd LOVE to see Fox outcamp the likes of ROB, DDD, or even Falco.

Smooth Criminal

Really? They are some of the easier ones to camp.

R.O.B: Shine comes out quicker than the laser. Once you recognize the startup motion, youll get your shine up everytime. The top is a little tougher. If the R.O.B gets predictable it will be easy, but If your playing a good r.o.b this wont happen. Shine reflects the top and makes it fox's. The best bet is to lay back if you think rob is going to use it, so your reay for it.

DDD: Probably the toughest of the 3 you mentioned to camp. Your blaster stops his waddle spam in his tracks; but at the same time it makes it harder for you to effectively spam. You will need to rely on shdl and shtl. The Spam games cancel eachother out here IMO.

Falco: turtle in reflector. What else can he do? His blasters will ALWAYS come back and hit him. The range nerf fox's blaster received is actually a blessing in this case. If this fight is on FD for example, Fox can shoot at falco, and even if falco reflects, it wont reach fox. Falco on the other hand will have to deal with his blaster every time when fox reflects them. On Smaller stages its more even, but Fox still has the better reflect he can keep throwing back in Falco's face.

 

[gantrain05]

not too hard to camp DDD, his waddle's stop the lasers, but the lasers also stop them, if he SH's the lasers it will still hit DDD's head forcing an approach.

 

[infomon]

Putting better momentum cancelling as one of the reasons as to why your character is better is comical.

Ganon has better momentum cancelling than Ike...........so what?

It is part of the reason, though. It means Sonic can live much longer than Fox; heavier, great momentum-cancelling, amazing recovery. How is that not a legitimate advantage? I'm not saying Sonic > Fox, I don't even agree with that, but I don't see what's comical.

In what way does Ganon have better momentum-cancelling than Ike? In my tests, neither of them had any Special that was useful for momentum-cancelling, so..... what? Does Ganon's midair ump have a better horizontal acceleration than Ike's or smthg?? what'd I miss?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I wasn't thinking in terms of "versus" those particular characters, guys. I was thinking overall. Maybe I should have worded it better.

Thanks for the info, tho'. -_-

Smooth Criminal

 

[M@v]

Overall, Fox's spam game isnt meant to rack up damage over time. Its the type of spam game that's meant to force approaches, such as Zelda's spam game.

 

[-Mars-]

It is part of the reason, though. It means Sonic can live much longer than Fox; heavier, great momentum-cancelling, amazing recovery. How is that not a legitimate advantage? I'm not saying Sonic > Fox, I don't even agree with that, but I don't see what's comical.

In what way does Ganon have better momentum-cancelling than Ike? In my tests, neither of them had any Special that was useful for momentum-cancelling, so..... what? Does Ganon's midair ump have a better horizontal acceleration than Ike's or smthg?? what'd I miss?

Hey a realistic Sonic player.....good to know one exists besides Teh Umby.

I've already explained that the fact that Fox doesn't live that long is cancelled out by the fact that he kills most of the cast at 100-110%...what do you not get about that?

"My character has better momentum cancelling than yours", if that's one of the few things you can come up with as to why your character is superior.............then you know your character isn't very good.

I was just making an example of Ike-Ganon, I don't know and I could care less......it was just to prove a point.

 

[HeroMystic]

In what way does Ganon have better momentum-cancelling than Ike?

Down-B.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Is Sonic the new Roy, the character that people claim is far better than he actually is?

Seriously folks, don't we remember Melee and the people who believed that Roy was top tier? Can't we learn from this?

Quit being scrubby. It doesn't matter where your main is on the tier list. If you suck too much to move him up the tier list, then no amount of wailing and gnasing your teeth will get him moved up because of his magical, unseen "potential". If you are winning major tournaments with him, then he will be moved up. Its that simple. Whining on the boards about it won't change his ranking, and indeed the entire idea of someone complaining that their main is underranked on the tier list screams out scrub.

If you have a long argument about it, you're being dumb. Drop it and move on. It doesn't matter where Sonic or whoever you main is on the tier list.

 

[Kinzer]

Sonic boards matchups are biased in any case from what I recall. At one point I remember someone calling Sonic vs D3 an almost even matchup, which is not true it all.

Furthermore, whether not I win or lose vs a Luigi has nothing to do of whether I consider it a bad mactchup, so yes, I have beaten competent Luigi's before, and know key points of the matchup. Fact is, playing the better Luigi's, I can tell that Luigi has all the tools to shut Sonic down, and he doesn't have to try hard to do it.

Wifi is trash. If you have nothing better to do, then you should familiarize yourself with the process of doing your parents' taxes.

What are you talking about, we haven't went over D3 matchup yet, and AFAIK it's in his advantage (stupid penguin... -_-)

Seriously, at least start trollnig the Sonic boards again, you would know what we have/haven't looked into yet.

And if you disagree with us, why don't you come back and prove some points wrong? So far it looks neutral, and I can't see much arguement with that (then again, teh Weegee boards are dead... -_-)

All I said was We've stopped relying on Wi-Fi so much because it's stupid, nobody is saying otherwise, and why would I want to figure out taxes when I'm only 16 and unhired for any job yet? I'll go do that during the summer, not school.

I love how every Sonic player chose to just ignore my points.

It's not so much that I am ignoring you, as it is your own debate with another Sonic main

Hey a realistic Sonic player.....good to know one exists besides Teh Umby.

Again, not my problem... I don't really care if you think we're all hotheads, like that matters to any of us anyway...

Edit:

Is Sonic the new Roy, the character that people claim is far better than he actually is?

Seriously folks, don't we remember Melee and the people who believed that Roy was top tier? Can't we learn from this?

Quit being scrubby. It doesn't matter where your main is on the tier list. If you suck too much to move him up the tier list, then no amount of wailing and gnasing your teeth will get him moved up because of his magical, unseen "potential". If you are winning major tournaments with him, then he will be moved up. Its that simple. Whining on the boards about it won't change his ranking, and indeed the entire idea of someone complaining that their main is underranked on the tier list screams out scrub.

If you have a long argument about it, you're being dumb. Drop it and move on. It doesn't matter where Sonic or whoever you main is on the tier list.

Where have you been these past 4 years? Everybody, including the Sonic mains, know that he sucks.

We have.

It matters when people won't take us seriously, hence the huge debates we have with people.

And you're being stupid having to resort to insults. See what I did there?

 

[gantrain05]

Is Sonic the new Roy, the character that people claim is far better than he actually is?

Seriously folks, don't we remember Melee and the people who believed that Roy was top tier? Can't we learn from this?

Quit being scrubby. It doesn't matter where your main is on the tier list. If you suck too much to move him up the tier list, then no amount of wailing and gnasing your teeth will get him moved up because of his magical, unseen "potential". If you are winning major tournaments with him, then he will be moved up. Its that simple. Whining on the boards about it won't change his ranking, and indeed the entire idea of someone complaining that their main is underranked on the tier list screams out scrub.

If you have a long argument about it, you're being dumb. Drop it and move on. It doesn't matter where Sonic or whoever you main is on the tier list.

where do u come off calling everyone scrubby? you call me scrubby on another thread, and then come in here calling everyone else scrubby, your the freakin scrub, sonic mains aren't complaining to get their character moved up THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING, stop posting just to insult people. SCRUB.

 

[infomon]

Hey a realistic Sonic player.....good to know one exists besides Teh Umby.

I've already explained that the fact that Fox doesn't live that long is cancelled out by the fact that he kills most of the cast at 100-110%...what do you not get about that?

"My character has better momentum cancelling than yours", if that's one of the few things you can come up with as to why your character is superior.............then you know your character isn't very good.

I was just making an example of Ike-Ganon, I don't know and I could care less......it was just to prove a point.

There are plenty of intelligent, well-spoken Sonic mains. I wouldn't expect to find them in an inconsequential tier-list thread

Your ability to kill and your ability to survive are two different things. Having one advantage doesn't mean you can ignore a different disadvantage. Your claim is that Fox needs to wrack at least as much damage as he takes? Bowser doesn't need to make such a tradeoff; trading damage with Bowser is usually called losing. You can claim Fox kills earlier than Sonic (not counting gimping, I presume? since Sonic's gimping game is fantastic).... but Sonic lives much longer than Fox. OK, let's move on. Oh wait, I was never involved in Fox vs. Sonic debate.

As for Ike-Ganon, your statement was wrong, so it didn't make a point at all.

Down-B.

Oh lol, I totally forgot about that move I don't think it can offer any %-advantage on any SBR-legal stage, and maybe not any possible stage lol, but I could be wrong lol.

Quit being scrubby. It doesn't matter where your main is on the tier list. If you suck too much to move him up the tier list, then no amount of wailing and gnasing your teeth will get him moved up because of his magical, unseen "potential". If you are winning major tournaments with him, then he will be moved up. Its that simple. Whining on the boards about it won't change his ranking, and indeed the entire idea of someone complaining that their main is underranked on the tier list screams out scrub.

What's funny is that Sonic's tournament results show him waaay higher than his placing on the tier list. And that's pretty much the only argument I've heard recently, about why his tier placing is wrong.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

It matters when people won't take us seriously, hence the huge debates we have with people.

Translation: "I want undeserved attention and respect."

#1 reason I don't take people who complain about Sonic being underrated seriously is that they are complaining that Sonic is underrated. If he is, demonstrate it. If you cannot demonstrate it, why do we care?

We don't.

By claiming that you want to be taken seriously you are doing precisely what I outlined in my post.

If you win tournaments against good players, people will take you seriously. I'm not going to take you seriously because you post about how awesome Sonic is, and neither will anyone else who knows what they're doing. They'll take you seriously because you put up good results.

They might take you seriously for other reasons, but they won't take you seriously as a player for those reasons.

And you're being stupid having to resort to insults. See what I did there?

Implied that you yourself are stupid, the logical conclusion of that statement.

where do u come off calling everyone scrubby? you call me scrubby on another thread, and then come in here calling everyone else scrubby, your the freakin scrub, sonic mains aren't complaining to get their character moved up THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING, stop posting just to insult people. SCRUB.

Quite well, thank you.

And really, the reason is that these boards are full of scrubby people complaining. I don't come here to listen to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Its fine to be a scrub, as I've said before.

However, I don't come here to listen to what scrubs have to say.

What's funny is that Sonic's tournament results show him waaay higher than his placing on the tier list. And that's pretty much the only argument I've heard recently, about why his tier placing is wrong.

Which was exactly my point. Way to read my post.

I wasn't discounting Sonic. I was saying that arguing about him being underrated, whining and getting in long, stupid arguments about it is scrubby and pointless.

The tier list doesn't matter. It gets updated when it gets updated.

It doesn't matter which character you're complaining about being over or underrated. The tier list isn't a big deal. Its a useful metric for knowing what a group of good players thought at some point in time. Character X being in position Y on it is not a big deal; if you feel he's underrated, play him and win with him when people "don't take you seriously".

I don't know where Sonic belongs on the tier list. But I do know getting in long arguments about it on this thread is stupid and pointless. People who focus overly on the tiers are being stupid; what matters is how good you are at winning games with what characters against which characters, and how often those characters are being used. While the tier list is nice for knowing a bit about the metagame, it only tells you so much, and if it is wrong then it is wrong and it will be fixed when you win tournaments with whatever character, or when whatever character gets crushed consistently or doesn't do as well as other characters.

My point was not "Sonic is properly placed", but "Put up tournament results and the tier list will change itself; complaining about him being underrated does no good."

 

[Browny]

Funny, I coulda sworn this thread was meant for discussing the tier list

but TD knows best

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Its not a discussion if no one listens or wants to listen to anyone else. This is pretty much intellectual ****ery.

 

[Kinzer]

Translation: "I want undeserved attention and respect."

#1 reason I don't take people who complain about Sonic being underrated seriously is that they are complaining that Sonic is underrated. If he is, demonstrate it. If you cannot demonstrate it, why do we care?

If you win tournaments against good players, people will take you seriously. I'm not going to take you seriously because you post about how awesome Sonic is, and neither will anyone else who knows what they're doing. They'll take you seriously because you put up good results.

Implied that you yourself are stupid, the logical conclusion of that statement.

And really, the reason is that these boards are full of scrubby people complaining. I don't come here to listen to people who don't know what they're talking about. However, I don't come here to listen to what scrubs have to say.

I wasn't discounting Sonic. I was saying that arguing about him being underrated, whining and getting in long, stupid arguments about it is scrubby and pointless.

My point was not "Sonic is properly placed", but "Put up tournament results and the tier list will change itself; complaining about him being underrated does no good."

I don't think I ever said this... all I said (or rather implied) was that we want the RIGHT AMOUNT of it. I didn't say you had to kiss my *** over this.

We already have, go look it yourself, I'm not going to bother since the facts have only been mentioned a couple billion times.

I've been donig that too, if you look around too... at least if you think Vegas has some good people that play there, I've placed well in tournaments to. I'm not your run-of-the-mill n00b.

Nevermind this part, because it only makes me want to headbang with people like you. At least I'll take you out with me seeing as how my statement stands that only idiots with a tiny vocabularly have to go to bully other people... over the internet.

Then why are you here again? It's not like certain types of people don't exist, and with that mindset why are you on this entire forum then? People will be stupid, it can't be helped.

It beats some sense into the elitists who think otherwise, because some people can't travel to every corner of the U.S. and fight every person who thinks otherwise.

I don't know though, it seems like this whole arguement is pointless if you think of it as so.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

I don't think I ever said this... all I said (or rather implied) was that we want the RIGHT AMOUNT of it. I didn't say you had to kiss my *** over this.

Unless you're making money via having respect on the internet, why do you care?

I only care about the opinions of people who I consider worthwhile. It makes me a great deal happier.

Nevermind this part, because it only makes me want to headbang with people like you. At least I'll take you out with me seeing as how my statement stands that only idiots with a tiny vocabularly have to go to bully other people... over the internet.

Way to insult someone's vocabulary in a paragraph which consists primarily of monosyllabic words, none of which indicate that you are particularly well-educated or have a vast vocabulary - a fourth grader knows every single word you used in that paragraph. Chances are you possess a far smaller vocabulary than I do. Indeed, this paragraph seems to indicate that you are projecting.

Then why are you here again? It's not like certain types of people don't exist, and with that mindset why are you on this entire forum then? People will be stupid, it can't be helped.

Because a long time ago, someone showed me this forum. Plus, every once in a while something worthwhile is posted. Mostly, though, it is trash, and that saddens me.

Then again, I suppose this is the downside of any forum with minimal moderation which allows anyone to join it - you end up with a bunch of idiots trying to get attention posting on it about their woes and how they deserve more respect than they get.

 

[Kinzer]

Because it contributes to my overall enjoyment amoung this place... so far I like it because I've worked my way from the bottom and up, like anybody else would've.

"Nevermind" is a key word, you know... way to go, champ! You can let that arguement fade away now, if you haven't already figured it out...

Glad to see you're affiliating me with the wrong group. At least you and I see eye to eye that this place has problems...

 

[-Mars-]

There are plenty of intelligent, well-spoken Sonic mains. I wouldn't expect to find them in an inconsequential tier-list thread

Your ability to kill and your ability to survive are two different things. Having one advantage doesn't mean you can ignore a different disadvantage. Your claim is that Fox needs to wrack at least as much damage as he takes? Bowser doesn't need to make such a tradeoff; trading damage with Bowser is usually called losing. You can claim Fox kills earlier than Sonic (not counting gimping, I presume? since Sonic's gimping game is fantastic).... but Sonic lives much longer than Fox. OK, let's move on. Oh wait, I was never involved in Fox vs. Sonic debate.

I said against most of the cast, in the Bowser matchup he's not going to be hitting me very often so it doesn't even matter lol. You keep bringing up other matchups when we're discussing Fox vs Sonic. I can put 80% on Bowser before he can put 20% on me....but that's a whole other matter. You people are forgetting that Fox has speed, it's not like he's going to be hit by these powerful moves all day. He also has a 2 frame jab and an utilt that clanks with things like Marths fsmash and Snakes jab, utilt, and ftilt, he has options to keep him alive.

Also good players don't get gimped and Fox can gimp as well, Sonic is better whoop de doo. Against players that know what they're doing...Fox kills earlier than Sonic. Aside from gimping most of Sonics' kill move are slow and have a long cooldown period(he has a few exceptions)

Edit: You post a lot Kinzer...what does that have to do with you working your way to the top?

 

[Kinzer]

I have little else to do... yes, get it out of the way, tell me I have "no life" I've heard of it before, and I don't really care.

I also think post count is really irrelevant, I know n00bs who are Smash Lords because of it...

 

[Titanium Dragon]

You know, I do find it funny that you joined in June 2008, and have 4000 posts, and I joined in november 2004, and have 100 posts.

So in 50 months, I've made 100 posts, or 2 posts per month. In 7 months, you've made 4000 posts, or 571 posts per month - so you post about 28,000% more often than I do.

But each of my posts are 28,000% more important than yours, right?

 

[Kinzer]

You know, I do find it funny that you joined in June 2008, and have 4000 posts, and I joined in november 2004, and have 100 posts.

So in 50 months, I've made 100 posts, or 2 posts per month. In 7 months, you've made 4000 posts, or 571 posts per month - so you post about 28,000% more often than I do.

This is exactly why I find post count irrelevent... EXACTLY!

 

[infomon]

My point was not "Sonic is properly placed", but "Put up tournament results and the tier list will change itself; complaining about him being underrated does no good."

Sigh. The SBR tier list isn't just tournament results, it's also their own particular impressions and biases about the characters. If they think Sonic sucks, regardless of his tournament placings, then he'll be placed low. That's fine, it doesn't matter, these lists are dumb anyway; I agree with you on all that. But when people are here complaining that Sonic's placing is surprisingly low despite amazing tournament performance, it doesn't make much sense for you to come in here and (effectively) say "stop whining, just do better at tournaments"..... the point is that Sonics did, but that's gone ignored. Hmmm.

It's not just the outdated list..... many reasonably recent statements from SBR members have indicated a very low opinion of Sonic, and that he may actually go down on the list, despite his consistent improvement in tournaments. If Sonic mains want to come in here to explain why they think their character is misunderstood by the SBR; relevant discussion in a tier-list thread I might add; why the heck are you here complaining about it? Why do you even care?

You keep bringing up other matchups when we're discussing Fox vs Sonic.

I keep bringing up other matchups?? I brought up one -- Bowser -- after you brought up Ganon vs. Ike. and I was never really discussing Fox vs. Sonic; I just came in to show an error in your post. You've kept me busy

I can put 80% on Bowser before he can put 20% on me....but that's a whole other matter.

No, that was my entire point by bringing up Bowser; to exemplify how you were trying to compare two different character attributes (KO power vs. survivability) when this is meaningless without looking at all the other factors involved in the matchup. I guess that went over your head, sorry.

You people are forgetting that Fox has speed, it's not like he's going to be hit by these powerful moves all day.

lol, yeah Sonic's so afraid of Fox's speed. Bah, look I really have no interest in arguing this matchup though, that's not why I'm here, I don't even know if anyone else here is actually arguing with you.

 

[Osi]

This is exactly why I find post count irrelevent... EXACTLY!

Post count is meaningless, so is joined date.

Many users look at them as a matter of experience because most 08 SWF members have brawl experience, but very little melee experience. Given that melee reached a further height in it's metagame than brawl is at that leads people to believe a melee advanced member knows deeper areas of competitive smash. There is also the fact brawl is missing some technicle and competitive elements melee/64 had, so having little knowledge in those could be looked down on by some. I'm not saying I agree, but I assume that's why post count and join date matter to many members.

This of course does not mean 08 or low post count members can't make awesome points with logical and well illustrated posts. The best way to change the current trend of outlook is to be an example of overcoming the stereotype.

On topic, I hope mario can pick up a bit on the tier list. I really enjoyed him when I played vanilla brawl.