The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Waza]

I don't exactly see how jabbing and ftilting and Up-Bing in the corner is going to win you the match. It's an inevitability that they're going to get at least one projectile through, and (assuming the percentage had been even from the beginning of the camping/Bowser camp cancel) if Bowser doesn't approach after that, he loses the match lol.

Read Gimpy's WoT lol.

Thank you too Sir Bedevere, Gimpy and Ankoku. You three seem to understand my argument.....

And DeathCarter, as your profile suggests, you main samus who is below bowser in this situation.... are you saying that your array of projectiles (z-air primarily) are negated by Bowser's approaches?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

stop talking about projectiles that aren't relevant and read my post - which is highly relevant.

 

[Flayl]

stop talking about projectiles that aren't relevant and read my post - which is highly relevant.

It's highly relevant. You're saying Bowser can't approach. He can. Just not like in Melee.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you clearly did not get the point of my post

 

[Bowser King]

Thank you too Sir Bedevere, Gimpy and Ankoku. You three seem to understand my argument.....

And DeathCarter, as your profile suggests, you main samus who is below bowser in this situation.... are you saying that your array of projectiles (z-air primarily) are negated by Bowser's approaches?

Even though Sir Bedevere's argument was completly flawed as shown by his 2nd paragraph?

-Bowser King

 

[Waza]

you clearly did not get the point of my post

This is the point of your post correct? "Anyways in conclusion bowser is still a big pile of fat garbage so stop overrating him"

All i'm harping on is what Bowser-king has termed as a "good defense" which entails "power-shielding and using up-b/ jabs to stay defensive and FORCE a camper () to approach bowser"...

But back to Gimpy's summary, I'm agreeing with you, Bowser = overrated, should be lower slightly on the tier list. done.

 

[Flayl]

All i'm harping on is what Bowser-king has termed as a "good defense" which entails "power-shielding and using up-b/ jabs to stay defensive and FORCE a camper () to approach bowser...

You're a moron, nobody said that.

Oh well, one more infraction for me.

 

[Deathcarter]

you clearly did not get the point of my post

The point of your post was that Bowser is completely bad. Which is debatable since unlike in Melee, he actually has a use in this metagame, being a counterpick against Meta Knight while being a valid secondary at the same time due to not being terribad like Yoshi.

 

[Bowser King]

This is the point of your post correct? "Anyways in conclusion bowser is still a big pile of fat garbage so stop overrating him"

All i'm harping on is what Bowser-king has termed as a "good defense" which entails "power-shielding and using up-b/ jabs to stay defensive and FORCE a camper () to approach bowser...

But back to Gimpy's summary, I'm agreeing with you, Bowser = overrated, should be lower slightly on the tier list. done.

lolwut?

When did I say anything about forcing a camper to approch? I said his defensive game is good. I mentioned nothing about capming...

-Bowser King

 

[Flayl]

The point of your post was that Bowser is completely bad. Which is debatable since unlike in Melee, he actually has a use in this metagame, being a counterpick against Meta Knight while being a valid secondary at the same time due to not being terribad like Yoshi.

He's not a counterpick for metaknight, not even close. His tools allow him to go even at best, and that's only on stages where bowser can't be caught in the air (basically meaning he has a hard time everywhere else except final destination, smashville, and yoshi's island).

 

[Waza]

I said his only REALLY bad matchup.



Just because he's slow he auto-sucks right? Bowser has a good defensive game and can keep keep of a lot of fast characters off with ^B OOS, flamethrower and his huge shield. CG helps turn his defensive game into offensive.



-Bowser King

here is where you implied defense being turned into offensive. And i only began focusing on the camping issue because CAMPING with projectiles is the easiest way to negate this so called good defense of bowser.....

 

[Sir Bedevere]

The hell? You're going to apprach WHILE using one of the defenses, not just sit in the corner like a moron.

"You" as in Bowser approaching?

Read the first paragraph of Gimpy's to WoT to understand why that's bad lol.

Also your second line proves you don't know what you're talking about, The fortress animation stops as soon as it cancels the projectile. Otherwise it wouldn't be useful, duh.

Not really what I meant eheh.

I meant duking your opponent into thinking you'll use it, then either not using it or missing with it entirely. Then run up and grab or dash attack or whatever.

Which projectiles are uncancellable by anything but Up-B exactly? (I'll admit, I'm not particularily knowledgeable about Bowser, but the things you Bowser mains are saying and the things Gimpy and Ankoku are saying aren't matching up...).

 

[Bowser King]

here is where you implied defense being turned into offensive/

Again, where does that say ANYTHING about camping.

...and if you wan't to be really picky I said it HELPS. I never said

"If you get close to bowser your destroyed because he chaingrabs you"

-Bowser King

 

[Deathcarter]

And DeathCarter, as your profile suggests, you main samus who is below bowser in this situation.... are you saying that your array of projectiles (z-air primarily) are negated by Bowser's approaches?

Well, Samus actually can camp Bowser and actually has an advantage against him, though Bowser does beat her after he gets through her Zair wall. My point was that Bowser has tools to approach and fight close range against every character you mentioned (Link might be the exception), especially since none of the characters you mentioned are particually good at camping.

He's not a counterpick for metaknight, not even close. His tools allow him to go even at best, and that's only on stages where bowser can't be caught in the air (basically meaning he has a hard time everywhere else except final destination, smashville, and yoshi's island

You are correct. What I meant was that Bowser is borderline neutral against Meta Knight which is something only Falco, Snake, and Diddy can attest to.

 

[Waza]

I never said

"If you get close to bowser your destroyed because he chaingrabs you"

-Bowser King

wait, who said anything about chaingrabbing? I was citing your so-called "good" defense as not being a reason for having bowser higher up than he should be on the tier list.... that was my overall point. The whole tangent on camping against bowser was support for my argument against your "defense as good as offense" implication.

 

[Bowser King]

He's not a counterpick for metaknight, not even close. His tools allow him to go even at best, and that's only on stages where bowser can't be caught in the air (basically meaning he has a hard time everywhere else except final destination, smashville, and yoshi's island).

I think death was trying to say...

"One of the closest things to a character who goes even with MK"

wait, who said anything about chaingrabbing? I was citing your so-called "good" defense as not being a reason for having bowser higher up than he should be on the tier list.... that was my overall point. The whole tangent on camping was support for my argument against your "defense as good as offense" implication.

Because the sentence you quoted was about CG?

Re-read the sentance and you'll see.

-Bowser King

 

[Flayl]

"You" as in Bowser approaching?

Read the first paragraph of Gimpy's to WoT to understand why that's bad lol.

Because gimpy describes Bowser's attempts at approaching with an outdated perpsective. He gave up on him early in the game.

Not really what I meant eheh.

I meant duking your opponent into thinking you'll use it, then either not using it or missing with it entirely. Then run up and grab or dash attack or whatever.

Which projectiles are uncancellable by anything but Up-B exactly? (I'll admit, I'm not particularily knowledgeable about Bowser, but the things you Bowser mains are saying and the things Gimpy and Ankoku are saying aren't matching up...).

UpB is meant to be a reflex defense. It is completely invulnerable (that means it cancels everything) on frame 1-5.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Because gimpy describes Bowser's attempts at approaching with an outdated perpsective. He gave up on him early in the game.

Then why have you not argued against that point? If you think something's wrong in it, debate it! Proove your character's worth and all that jazz!

UpB is meant to be a reflex defense. It is completely invulnerable (that means it cancels everything) on frame 1-5.

Ah. Excuse my ignorance then.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

no, but you could take tourney results into account more.
IT almost seams as if your being selective when it comes to the degree to which tourney results affect placements. If your going on match ups and "potential", yoshi should be higher. If you lean towards toruney results, sonic should move up. Fanboyism alone can't be putting him that high. Its almost like to to afraid to move past the preconceptions.

You have paid no attention to this thread. I put Yoshi in mid tier and sonic very low on my list, just as you suggset. Too bad the list posted isn't my list, it's a list based on the averages of our votes. This has been said 3000 times here.

Bowser has alot of bad matchups IMO. I agree with Gimpy that he cannot approach. He's not garbage, he can still do okay- i like him exactly where he is. I used bowser for awhile and even tried to possibly make him a main of mine the first several months of the game, but got frustrated when people learned the matchup and camped me, as I felt like I had no real options.

 

[Flayl]

Then why have you not argued against that point? If you think something's wrong in it, debate it! Proove your character's worth and all that jazz! :laugh

I have...

But explaining in more detail: There are exceptions, but Bowser usually wants to stick to the ground. Several strategies are zoning with FTilt and Jab (walking/dashing up to Ftilt range (while using the aforementioned defenses) and use superior range), shield dash grabbing, or simply baiting the opponent into doing something (this is where his fenomenal defense comes in).

Why is his defense fenomenal? 2 things, grab release game and fortress out of shield. Fortress out of shield has 0 vulnerable frames between animation states if done correctly. What gimpy said about Bowser's grab range is not true, it's average, not poor.

Against characters that have blind spots (places they cannot quickly defend) above them, klaw jumping is perfectly reasonable. It's also useful just for covering distance if you're in a platform heavy stage.

FAir is used for assaulting opponents in a poor position. This varies with the character.

edit: Short hop firebreath is actually pretty good against a select few characters

 

[LuigiKing]

We should talk about Luigi cuz hes a player. Bowser and Lucas are boring me.

 

[Sliq]

Bowser beats Metaknight, but loses to B.

 

[Bowser King]

lol

I hate tornado D:

-Bowser King

 

[Vorguen]

Does Bowser really stand a fighting chance against MK? I know how to play a DECENT Bowser but I don't know why I would ever want to fight a MK with him. Bowser was mostly a character I picked up to beat my noobier friends and be like "lawl!"

 

[kr3wman]

Does Bowser really stand a fighting chance against MK? I know how to play a DECENT Bowser but I don't know why I would ever want to fight a MK with him. Bowser was mostly a character I picked up to beat my noobier friends and be like "lawl!"

Bowser is one of MK's worst matchup.

like 6:4 MK, but you know.

 

[G U R U]

Does Bowser really stand a fighting chance against MK? I know how to play a DECENT Bowser but I don't know why I would ever want to fight a MK with him. Bowser was mostly a character I picked up to beat my noobier friends and be like "lawl!"

Well he is by no means a counterpick thats for sure, but yes he does stand a fighting chance.

 

[Dark Paladin X]

Guys and Gals, bear in note the tiers aren't meant to say that one character is better than the other, since all characters are created equal. In fact, I find tiers as a hierarchy where players discriminate those who choose "lower tier characters" (for example, I don't people teasing others saying "Ha! I chose Marth and you chose Lucario and since Lucario is in a lower tier than Marth, I will rip out apart.") Tiers don't matter to me, SKILL is more important. In fact, I'm more concerned with playing a fair game rather than tiers and hierarchies (For example, I consider fair when someone preforms a Kirbycide or a down aerial meteor smash on me since I know these techniques are hard to preform, but I would get mad if someone does some form of infinite chain grab like King Dedede's down throw). you knows, I think there might be some Youtube videos featuring brawls between Marth vs. Lucario where Lucario is the victor.

 

[Umby]

Guys and Gals, bear in note the tiers aren't meant to say that one character is better than the other, since all characters are created equal. In fact, I find tiers as a hierarchy where players discriminate those who choose "lower tier characters" (for example, I don't people teasing others saying "Ha! I chose Marth and you chose Lucario and since Lucario is in a lower tier than Marth, I will rip out apart.") Tiers don't matter to me, SKILL is more important. In fact, I'm more concerned with playing a fair game rather than tiers and hierarchies (For example, I consider fair when someone preforms a Kirbycide or a down aerial meteor smash on me since I know these techniques are hard to preform, but I would get mad if someone does some form of infinite chain grab like King Dedede's down throw). you knows, I think there might be some Youtube videos featuring brawls between Marth vs. Lucario where Lucario is the victor.

No one here is going to feed you, I'm sorry.

 

[Sean²]

Guys and Gals

Here's where I stopped reading. There are no girls on the internet.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I reading this wrong? Does that say Lucas and Ness are tied? I thought it was common knowledge that Lucas was better (correct me if I'm wrong). Other than that, I only see a few minor flaws.

 

[G U R U]

Am I reading this wrong? Does that say Lucas and Ness are tied? I thought it was common knowledge that Lucas was better (correct me if I'm wrong). Other than that, I only see a few minor flaws.

I believe you mean the opposite my good sir.

Edit: 111 post lolz

 

[bigman40]

The point of your post was that Bowser is completely bad. Which is debatable since unlike in Melee, he actually has a use in this metagame, being a counterpick against Meta Knight while being a valid secondary at the same time due to not being terribad like Yoshi.

Lol. You don't have the facts to back up Yoshi being terribad.

 

[Vorguen]

How far back did you go to quote that? I couldn't even find it lol.

Yoshi is pwn, Yoshi for top tier!

 

[bigman40]

How far back did you go to quote that? I couldn't even find it lol.

Yoshi is pwn, Yoshi for top tier!

My pages don't go that far back. I have mine set to 50 (I think) so I'm only on page 35 right now lol. I went back one more page (which is probably like 4-5 pages back) and saw another fail post.

 

[Skritzel]

Yay!
New list

Falcon still pwns bottom

Lucas got lowered
]:

oh well,.good list

 

[RednaXale]

I don't know if I agree with Lucas' position.

 

[Red Arremer]

I thought it was common knowledge that Lucas was better

If this is a joke, it's not funny.
If it's serious, it's a joke.

=P

Ness is faaaaaaaaaar better than Lucas, and definitely should move up. Lucas should move even further down, imo.

 

[Jimnymebob]

If this is a joke, it's not funny.
If it's serious, it's a joke.

=P

Ness is faaaaaaaaaar better than Lucas, and definitely should move up. Lucas should move even further down, imo.

Agreed- Ness is better than Lucas imo, all Lucas has going for him is the Rope Snake, but that's it.

However, I feel that them both being equal is fair, and I'm OKAY with that.

Man, I'm so witty

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Agreed- Ness is better than Lucas imo, all Lucas has going for him is the Rope Snake, but that's it.

However, I feel that them both being equal is fair, and I'm OKAY with that.

Man, I'm so witty

nah, theyre not equal though.id say lucas is good where is is now, but ness should go up about 3-4 more spots up.>.>

 

[phi1ny3]

Ness has stuff that should get him more higher than lucas.