The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Bowser King]

Couldn't you say the same about DDD and bowser?

No.

Bowser vs D3 isn't AS bad as fox vs pika. Literally that match-up is terrible.
Either way, fox also has more trouble the pika to worry about (shiek and a 1 or 2 others I think) while bowser's only really bad matchup is D3.

-Bowser King

 

[Deathcarter]

fox has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to many HUGE weaknesses

somebody who doesn't even play pikachu can play pikachu against a good fox player and win is what it basically boils down to lol

Having many major weaknesses means a lot less if he has major strengths to go along with them which is more than what you can say for the F/G tiers. He definately (along with Luigi) belongs amongst the ranks of Pit, Wolf, and Toon Link.

And Pikachu is the only character in the higher tiers that completely shut Fox down. Having a fighting chance against every viable character except one is a huge boon which no one below C tier except ZSS and maybe Peach (who are C tier material anyway) can say. He is definately above E tier.

Edit: I forgot about ZSS and Shiek. But I still think he should be in D class or at least above Bowser.

 

[Waza]

while bowser's only really bad matchup is D3.

-Bowser King

you've got to be kidding me.... D3 is what you consider to be his only really bad matchup?

he is a huge target, sure he's been given some faster moves, but not by much. Shiek/Zelda together or just zelda (hell shiek can just tilt him to death) can put him in a rough situation. I'm not quite sure how Fox isnt considered an advantageous choice over Bowser.... Really, any fast character with moderate killing power should be more than enough for Bowser......anyone have good vids to prove me wrong on this sentiment?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

dedede is absolutely horrid for bowser too - but if you read earlier i believe that bowser is HIGHLY overrated

 

[Bowser King]

you've got to be kidding me.... D3 is what you consider to be his only really bad matchup?

he is a huge target, sure he's been given some faster moves, but not by much. Shiek/Zelda together or just zelda (hell shiek can just tilt him to death) can put him in a rough situation. I'm not quite sure how Fox isnt considered an advantageous choice over Bowser.... Really, any fast character with moderate killing power should be more than enough for Bowser......anyone have good vids to prove me wrong on this sentiment?

I said his only REALLY bad matchup.

Bowser has a lot of close to even matchups and a few bad ones. Though no really bad matchups other then D3. Then there's fox who has 3-4 really bad matchups.

Your 2nd paragraph proved you know NOTHING about bowser. Just because he's slow he auto-sucks right? Bowser has a good defensive game and can keep keep of a lot of fast characters off with ^B OOS, flamethrower and his huge shield. CG helps turn his defensive game into offensive.

Oh well, the bowser boards are used to the whole bowser sucks stereotype.
Seriously, bowser is a pretty good character who just lacks people to repersent him tourney wise (we have a few, good ones at that, but we don't have nearly enough compared to other chars).

Here's some vids if you need help..

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191870

-Bowser King

 

[Gimpyfish62]

time for me to write up a decent "why bowser is still bad" post for this topic - because he is.

 

[Grunt]

time for me to write up a decent "why Doopliss is still bad" post for this topic - because he is.

bowser is still *****.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'd like to say something about bowser in brawl

he's still a piece of garbage.

learn the matchup + be a moderately patient player and he becomes a piece of trash. he's wayyyyy overrated at this point.

Once you learn that bowser literally CANNOT approach with ANYTHING aside from like... klaw and land-> ftilt/alternate moves 'trick' you realize that bowser is easy to out prioritize from the air and it's easy to stop his approach with any number of the actual good characters - otherwise you *gasp* don't approach at all. It's called camping people - it's what made bowser absolutely useless in melee too. Granted he's not technically as 'bad' as his melee self but he's still shut down just as easily (if not easier - since brawl camp doesn't require quite as much precision). His range is solid - when he's motionless or slowly walking. Ftilt and jab aren't that threatening unless you're running into it - firebreath is only effective in certain situations as well. His grab releases is extremely solid on pretty much everyone- but you shouldn't be getting grabbed by this fat thing very much - if you can avoid ic grabs you can avoid this thing. His grab range was reduced to a degree where getting grabs simply should not happen if you space properly and approach only when safe.

It's easier to land bowser's moves when you have a lot of stage behind you that you can dash back shield ftilt/dash grab/turn around jabs but he gets "cornered" easily and isn't very maneuverable to get himself away from such situations. He's fairly dangerous in a few situations - but those situations have to be manually set up BY bowser - and they are ALL avoidable.

Bowser does INCREDIBLY well vs impatient players and players that don't know the match-up or can't adapt to it quickly - sounds just like melee bowser to me - except he doesn't get "combod" in this game.

He kills at lower percents than most - but his "rack up damage" ability doesn't exactly come easily.

Bowser in melee was forced to win exchange after exchange because of his general lack of combo ability - in brawl he still must win exchange after exchange but this time without a huge amount of maneuverability. His killing potential isn't much higher than most in reality - so he has to rack up damage at almost the exact same rate as the opponent but with no REAL posibility of combos outside of grab release and a couple things here and there...


Anyways in conclusion bowser is still a big pile of fat garbage so stop overrating him

EXTREMELY slight exaggerations may have been made in this post - but in general this is just how it is.

I'm sure SLIQ doesn't think he's good either LOL

oh also when i say bowser can't be combod i mean he can't be combod like in melee - he still gets "combod" the worst of pretty much every brawl character - you rack up damage fast on bowser for a character that really doesn't live that long. He doesn't live NEARLY as long as the other "heavy" characters do because his recovery just doesn't match up in this game.

i posted this elsewhere and now i'm bringing it here lol

a few extremes but overall i'd say bowser is still pretty bad.

 

[Flayl]

Bowser is horrible if you try to play him like Melee Bowser.

 

[Grunt]

Bowser is horrible if you try to play him like Melee Bowser.

Up-B still works.

 

[POKE40]

lol, quite exciting changes. Falco passed d3 o.o' oh noes..

MK has own tier
Snake has own tier
:O

They forgot the SSS tier...

SSS tier:
Captain Falcon's manliness
Mewtwo

Thanks for the list!
YES!

 

[Waza]

I said his only REALLY bad matchup.

Bowser has a lot of close to even matchups and a few bad ones. Though no really bad matchups other then D3. Then there's fox who has 3-4 really bad matchups.

Your 2nd paragraph proved you know NOTHING about bowser. Just because he's slow he auto-sucks right? Bowser has a good defensive game and can keep keep of a lot of fast characters off with ^B OOS, flamethrower and his huge shield. CG helps turn his defensive game into offensive.

Oh well, the bowser boards are used to the whole bowser sucks stereotype.
Seriously, bowser is a pretty good character who just lacks people to repersent him tourney wise (we have a few, good ones at that, but we don't have nearly enough compared to other chars).

Here's some vids if you need help..

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191870

-Bowser King

Sigh, i cited his speed as a main weakness, not his only one. And i'm clearly not saying he should be below ganondorf or c. falcon. The fact that you believe he has a "good" defensive game is rather funny though. Against purely melee characters i will agree, his large shield and up-b prove useful. But against several characters placed below him, Bowser can be easily outcamped and forced to switch from defense to offense. Fox, Shiek, Mario, Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, and possibly even Link's projectiles could easily force what you call Bowser's "great defense" into a sitting duck....and force you on the offensive. I acknowledge that Bowser has an improved moveset since Melee, but all it boils down too is an Ike with more reliable horizontal recovery and a short ranged b attack.

And Gimpy, i know you think Boswer is overrated, that's why i'm only quoting Bowser-King...

Oh and i watched those Bowser vids...the fact that the opponent is an "unknown player", and the person that isn't named usually is a crappy brawl player, does not help legitimize your Bowser vids. sorry.

 

[Flayl]

Up-B still works.

Approaching with FAir doesn't.

 

[Vulcan55]

lol, quite exciting changes. Falco passed d3 o.o' oh noes..

MK has own tier
Snake has own tier
:O

They forgot the SSS tier...

SSS tier:
Captain Falcon's manliness
Mewtwo

Thanks for the list!
YES!

Captain Falcon is a woman in Brawl.
His "Manliness" is Z tier.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

approaching with ANYTHING doesn't

please read my post

 

[Flayl]

Bowser's jab > projectiles except for laser ones

 

[Bowser King]

Sigh, i cited his speed as a main weakness, not his only one. And i'm clearly not saying he should be below ganondorf or c. falcon. The fact that you believe he has a "good" defensive game is rather funny though. Against purely melee characters i will agree, his large shield and up-b prove useful. But against several characters placed below him, Bowser can be easily outcamped and forced to switch from defense to offense. Fox, Shiek, Mario, Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, and possibly even Link's projectiles could easily force what you call Bowser's "great defense" into a sitting duck....and force you on the offensive. I acknowledge that Bowser has an improved moveset since Melee, but all it boils down too is an Ike with more reliable horizontal recovery and a short ranged b attack.

And Gimpy, i know you think Boswer is overrated, that's why i'm only quoting Bowser-King...

Oh and i watched those Bowser vids...the fact that the opponent is an "unknown player", and the person that isn't named usually is a crappy brawl player, does not help legitimize your Bowser vids. sorry.

1. Links projectiles? Did you even watch those vids? Seriously, "Learn to Powersield".

EDIT: ..and what flayl said. Plus, ^B clings with most projectiles and comes out fast

2. Comparing ike to bowser is like comparing Fox to sonic because there both fast...

3. If you watch the vids, they give a name on the vid so...

-Bowser King

 

[Waza]

Bowser's jab > projectiles except for laser ones

So you're saying it can cancel:

Shiek's - 5 needles in a row

Mario's fireball

Samus' - Charge shot (normal)
- Charge shot (fully charged)
- Both types of missles

Ness' - Up-b (can snake it around him if so)
-side-b pillar

Lucas' (same as with ness except up-b goes through things and side b w/o pillar)

Link's - arrow fully charged/ uncharged
- boomerang
- bomb either hitting the claw or elsewhere

Yoshi's -eggs which arc

I'm finding this highly unlikely.....

 

[Flayl]

stuff

Yes to those that come horizontally and aren't multi-hit, obviously. Charged Shot may need an Ftilt, however I'm absolutely sure about the others.

UpB also cancels out projectiles with its invulnerability frames.

 

[Bowser King]

So you're saying it can cancel:

Shiek's - 5 needles in a row

Mario's fireball

Samus' - Charge shot (normal)
- Charge shot (fully charged)
- Both types of missles

Ness' - Up-b (can snake it around him if so)
-side-b pillar

Lucas' (same as with ness)

Link's - arrow fully charged/ uncharged
- boomerang
- bomb either hitting the claw or elsewhere

Yoshi's -eggs which arc

I'm finding this highly unlikely.....

Most of those you mentioned can be avoided in the first place.
Through one way or another.

-Bowser King

 

[PKNintendo]

So you're saying it can cancel:

Shiek's - 5 needles in a row

Mario's fireball

Samus' - Charge shot (normal)
- Charge shot (fully charged)
- Both types of missles

Ness' - Up-b (can snake it around him if so)
-side-b pillar

Lucas' (same as with ness)

Link's - arrow fully charged/ uncharged
- boomerang
- bomb either hitting the claw or elsewhere

Yoshi's -eggs which arc

I'm finding this highly unlikely.....

LOL. Lucas PK Fire doesn't pillar.
Again SBR, why is Lucas that high? Why???

 

[Waza]

1. Links projectiles? Did you even watch those vids? Seriously, "Learn to Powersield".
EDIT: ..and what flayl said

2. Comparing ike to bowser is like comparing Fox to sonic because there both fast...

3. If you watch the vids, they give a name on the vid so...

-Bowser King

On the majority of the vids they just say Bowser (player name) vs. Character (no player name)

The majority of the ones i watched are the NinjaLink Vids, all of which have no other player listed, just the character he played against....

and point number two is also invalid. You still think i'm only considering speed. I already clearly stated the differences i believe between ike and bowser (or improvements for that matter that bowser has). But in retrospect, they both have powerful tilts and smashes, with specialized recovery (either vertical or horizontal).

As for the powershielding comment, you can keep powershielding all you want, but the projectiles are still forcing YOU to go to the projectile spammer (or you can just sit there and try to take it). Hence you are going from defensive to offfensive, and your "great defense" is negated.

 

[Zankoku]

1. Links projectiles? Did you even watch those vids? Seriously, "Learn to Powersield".

Not approaching while powershielding projectiles is not a winning strategy.

 

[Flayl]

Yea Bowser can jab Lucas' sideB, not so much with the pillar (which ***** bowser btw)

 

[PKNintendo]

It's pure coincidence that they ended up the same. Remember, these are averages of multiple votes.

I believe that Ness > Lucas, but it's a very negligible margin.

No.

Anyone can tell you that Lucas is a terrible character.

Horrid matchups, horrible results MOST OF THE TIME.
He's deserves bottom of low or possibly bottom.

I mean SBR, even the Lucas mains agree with this.

 

[Deathcarter]

Sigh, i cited his speed as a main weakness, not his only one. And i'm clearly not saying he should be below ganondorf or c. falcon. The fact that you believe he has a "good" defensive game is rather funny though. Against purely melee characters i will agree, his large shield and up-b prove useful. But against several characters placed below him, Bowser can be easily outcamped and forced to switch from defense to offense. Fox, Shiek, Mario, Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, and possibly even Link's projectiles could easily force what you call Bowser's "great defense" into a sitting duck....and force you on the offensive. I acknowledge that Bowser has an improved moveset since Melee, but all it boils down too is an Ike with more reliable horizontal recovery and a short ranged b attack.

And Gimpy, i know you think Boswer is overrated, that's why i'm only quoting Bowser-King...

Oh and i watched those Bowser vids...the fact that the opponent is an "unknown player", and the person that isn't named usually is a crappy brawl player, does not help legitimize your Bowser vids. sorry.

Do you seriously know what you are talking about when it comes to the characters you mentioned? Mario does not camp with fireballs, he uses them for his approaching, spacing, and preventing edgeguarding attempts but they suck at camping. Fox uses his lasers to force approaches and we all know Fox's defensive game is nothing to brag about so Bowser still has things going for him in that matchup. Lucas uses PK fire for spacing, and Ness uses his for setups. Bowser beats Yoshi close range so that offsets Yoshi's camping. Same thing for Shiek except we all know she can't trade blows with Bowser. Link is your only valid point.

I know you never insinuated Bowser should lower on the tier list, but none of those characters you mentioned except Fox are especially effective in the Bowser matchup.

 

[Waza]

LOL. Lucas PK Fire doesn't pillar.
Again SBR, why is Lucas that high? Why???

but yes i know lucas' side b doesnt pillar, but i didnt feel like re-writting side-b, up-b again, so i just implied that Lucas has similar projectiles to Ness. EDIT: corrected that now, should read clearer..

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik isn't effective in the Bowser matchup? I don't understand.

 

[PKNintendo]

Sheik isn't effective in the Bowser matchup? I don't understand.

I banned the Ftilt lock.

 

[Waza]

Do you seriously know what you are talking about when it comes to the characters you mentioned? Mario does not camp with fireballs, he uses them for his approaching, spacing, and preventing edgeguarding attempts but they suck at camping. Fox uses his lasers to force approaches and we all know Fox's defensive game is nothing to brag about so Bowser still has things going for him in that matchup. Lucas uses PK fire for spacing, and Ness uses his for setups. Bowser beats Yoshi close range so that offsets Yoshi's camping. Same thing for Shiek except we all know she can't trade blows with Bowser. Link is your only valid point.

I know you never insinuated Bowser should lower on the tier list, but none of those characters you mentioned except Fox are not especially effective in the Bowser matchup.

I'm not implying that those characters soley use their projectiles for camping. I'm saying that in this situation of Bowser King's "good defense" those projectile options would force bowser to drop defense and move on the offense, where he is weaker according to Bowser-king.

And that quote about Fox using lasers to force approaches is only supporting my point that his projectile forces Bowser to drop defense and go on offense.

Not approaching while powershielding projectiles is not a winning strategy.

correct.

 

[Bowser King]

On the majority of the vids they just say Bowser (player name) vs. Character (no player name)

The majority of the ones i watched are the NinjaLink Vids, all of which have no other player listed, just the character he played against....

and point number two is also invalid. You still think i'm only considering speed. I already clearly stated the differences i believe between ike and bowser (or improvements for that matter that bowser has). But in retrospect, they both have powerful tilts and smashes, with specialized recovery (either vertical or horizontal).

As for the powershielding comment, you can keep powershielding all you want, but the projectiles are still forcing YOU to go to the projectile spammer (or you can just sit there and try to take it). Hence you are going from defensive to offfensive, and your "great defense" is negated.

1. For the majority, there names are written. If you think the people Ninjalink faced were bad then watch the vid and hudge for yourself.

2. That still doesn't show anything. Most ike's play a lot different then bowser.

3. What does that do? Bowser can powershield, klaw hop, ^b through the projectiles and then when he's close it goes from there. Also, not every character has a projectile that's great like yoshi's egg throw(I mean this when it comes to spamming) or luigi's fireball. Some characters don't have a projectile at all. All of a sudden, bowser CAN play defensive.

-Bowser King

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wow. nobody read my post. you're all dumb.

QUOTEMAN
i'd like to say something about bowser in brawl

he's still a piece of garbage.

learn the matchup + be a moderately patient player and he becomes a piece of trash. he's wayyyyy overrated at this point.

Once you learn that bowser literally CANNOT approach with ANYTHING aside from like... klaw and land-> ftilt/alternate moves 'trick' you realize that bowser is easy to out prioritize from the air and it's easy to stop his approach with any number of the actual good characters - otherwise you *gasp* don't approach at all. It's called camping people - it's what made bowser absolutely useless in melee too. Granted he's not technically as 'bad' as his melee self but he's still shut down just as easily (if not easier - since brawl camp doesn't require quite as much precision). His range is solid - when he's motionless or slowly walking. Ftilt and jab aren't that threatening unless you're running into it - firebreath is only effective in certain situations as well. His grab releases is extremely solid on pretty much everyone- but you shouldn't be getting grabbed by this fat thing very much - if you can avoid ic grabs you can avoid this thing. His grab range was reduced to a degree where getting grabs simply should not happen if you space properly and approach only when safe.

It's easier to land bowser's moves when you have a lot of stage behind you that you can dash back shield ftilt/dash grab/turn around jabs but he gets "cornered" easily and isn't very maneuverable to get himself away from such situations. He's fairly dangerous in a few situations - but those situations have to be manually set up BY bowser - and they are ALL avoidable.

Bowser does INCREDIBLY well vs impatient players and players that don't know the match-up or can't adapt to it quickly - sounds just like melee bowser to me - except he doesn't get "combod" in this game.

He kills at lower percents than most - but his "rack up damage" ability doesn't exactly come easily.

Bowser in melee was forced to win exchange after exchange because of his general lack of combo ability - in brawl he still must win exchange after exchange but this time without a huge amount of maneuverability. His killing potential isn't much higher than most in reality - so he has to rack up damage at almost the exact same rate as the opponent but with no REAL posibility of combos outside of grab release and a couple things here and there...


Anyways in conclusion bowser is still a big pile of fat garbage so stop overrating him

EXTREMELY slight exaggerations may have been made in this post - but in general this is just how it is.

I'm sure SLIQ doesn't think he's good either LOL


oh also when i say bowser can't be combod i mean he can't be combod like in melee - he still gets "combod" the worst of pretty much every brawl character - you rack up damage fast on bowser for a character that really doesn't live that long. He doesn't live NEARLY as long as the other "heavy" characters do because his recovery just doesn't match up in this game.
END QUOTEMAN

 

[Deathcarter]

Sheik isn't effective in the Bowser matchup? I don't understand.

By effective, I mean have a decisive advantage in the matchup. Bowser can still fight Shiek pretty well. I think it is neutral, at best 55:45 Shiek.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik is neutral against Bowser? I don't understand.

 

[Flayl]

I did and disgaree, Jabbing, Power shielding (which is easier in Brawl) and fortressing all allow Bowser to overcome overrated projectiles (i.e. not falco's laser)

also bowser's grab range is average, btw

 

[PKNintendo]

wow. nobody read my post. you're all dumb.

QUOTEMAN
i'd like to say something about bowser in brawl

he's still a piece of garbage.

learn the matchup + be a moderately patient player and he becomes a piece of trash. he's wayyyyy overrated at this point.

Once you learn that bowser literally CANNOT approach with ANYTHING aside from like... klaw and land-> ftilt/alternate moves 'trick' you realize that bowser is easy to out prioritize from the air and it's easy to stop his approach with any number of the actual good characters - otherwise you *gasp* don't approach at all. It's called camping people - it's what made bowser absolutely useless in melee too. Granted he's not technically as 'bad' as his melee self but he's still shut down just as easily (if not easier - since brawl camp doesn't require quite as much precision). His range is solid - when he's motionless or slowly walking. Ftilt and jab aren't that threatening unless you're running into it - firebreath is only effective in certain situations as well. His grab releases is extremely solid on pretty much everyone- but you shouldn't be getting grabbed by this fat thing very much - if you can avoid ic grabs you can avoid this thing. His grab range was reduced to a degree where getting grabs simply should not happen if you space properly and approach only when safe.

It's easier to land bowser's moves when you have a lot of stage behind you that you can dash back shield ftilt/dash grab/turn around jabs but he gets "cornered" easily and isn't very maneuverable to get himself away from such situations. He's fairly dangerous in a few situations - but those situations have to be manually set up BY bowser - and they are ALL avoidable.

Bowser does INCREDIBLY well vs impatient players and players that don't know the match-up or can't adapt to it quickly - sounds just like melee bowser to me - except he doesn't get "combod" in this game.

He kills at lower percents than most - but his "rack up damage" ability doesn't exactly come easily.

Bowser in melee was forced to win exchange after exchange because of his general lack of combo ability - in brawl he still must win exchange after exchange but this time without a huge amount of maneuverability. His killing potential isn't much higher than most in reality - so he has to rack up damage at almost the exact same rate as the opponent but with no REAL posibility of combos outside of grab release and a couple things here and there...


Anyways in conclusion bowser is still a big pile of fat garbage so stop overrating him

EXTREMELY slight exaggerations may have been made in this post - but in general this is just how it is.

I'm sure SLIQ doesn't think he's good either LOL


oh also when i say bowser can't be combod i mean he can't be combod like in melee - he still gets "combod" the worst of pretty much every brawl character - you rack up damage fast on bowser for a character that really doesn't live that long. He doesn't live NEARLY as long as the other "heavy" characters do because his recovery just doesn't match up in this game.
END QUOTEMAN

Brutal huh.

Hey Gimpy, what made you stray away from Bowser in Brawl? You loved him in Melee IIRC.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

I don't exactly see how jabbing and ftilting and Up-Bing in the corner is going to win you the match. It's an inevitability that they're going to get at least one projectile through, and (assuming the percentage had been even from the beginning of the camping/Bowser camp cancel) if Bowser doesn't approach after that, he loses the match lol.

And if you're actually going to use a move like Up-B to neutralize projectiles, people will start catching on and baiting it so they can run up and punish.

Read Gimpy's WoT lol.

 

[Waza]

1. For the majority, there names are written. If you think the people Ninjalink faced were bad then watch the vid and hudge for yourself.

2. That still doesn't show anything. Most ike's play a lot different then bowser.

3. What does that do? Bowser can powershield, klaw hop, ^b through the projectiles and then when he's close it goes from there. Also, not every character has a projectile that's great like yoshi's egg throw(I mean this when it comes to spamming) or luigi's fireball. Some characters don't have a projectile at all. All of a sudden, bowser CAN play defensive.

-Bowser King

Sigh, i cited his speed as a main weakness, not his only one. And i'm clearly not saying he should be below ganondorf or c. falcon. The fact that you believe he has a "good" defensive game is rather funny though. Against purely melee characters i will agree, his large shield and up-b prove useful. But against several characters placed below him, Bowser can be easily outcamped and forced to switch from defense to offense. Fox, Shiek, Mario, Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, and possibly even Link's projectiles could easily force what you call Bowser's "great defense" into a sitting duck....and force you on the offensive. I acknowledge that Bowser has an improved moveset since Melee, but all it boils down too is an Ike with more reliable horizontal recovery and a short ranged b attack.
.

As you can clearly see Bowser-king, I already said that about purely melee characters. That's why i was focusing on characters with projectiles below Bowser in the current tier list..

 

[Flayl]

I don't exactly see how jabbing and ftilting and Up-Bing in the corner is going to win you the match. It's an inevitability that they're going to get at least one projectile through, and (assuming the percentage had been even from the beginning of the camping/Bowser camp cancel) if Bowser doesn't approach after that, he loses the match lol.

And if you're actually going to use a move like Up-B to neutralize projectiles, people will start catching on and baiting it so they can run up and punish.

Read Gimpy's WoT lol.

The hell? You're going to apprach WHILE using one of the defenses, not just sit in the corner like a moron.

Also your second line proves you don't know what you're talking about, The fortress animation stops as soon as it cancels the projectile. Otherwise it wouldn't be useful, duh.

 

[Deathcarter]

Sheik is neutral against Bowser? I don't understand.

To be fair, that is just my personal opinion. The Bowser boards have not gotten to the matchup so I haven't read any heavy analysis on the matchup. I'll go look to see if the Shiek boards have anything.

I'm not implying that those characters soley use their projectiles for camping. I'm saying that in this situation of Bowser King's "good defense" those projectile options would force bowser to drop defense and move on the offense, where he is weaker according to Bowser-king.

And that quote about Fox using lasers to force approaches is only supporting my point that his projectile forces Bowser to drop defense and go on offense.

The reason I posted that was because I beleived you were implying that Bowser did not have an offensive game against those characters. Provided his approach does suck like Gimpy has pointed out, but against those particular characters whos names you just happened to throw into your argument, Bowser's approach and close range game is adaquate.