The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Pr0phetic]

I definitely see Pikachu, Marth, PT, and Wario in some sort of rise. Falco sadly is falling. My prediction as of now:

1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. King DeDeDe
4. Marth
5. Diddy Kong
6. Wario
7. Mr. Game N Watch
8. Falco
9. Donkey Kong
10. R.O.B.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

His edge game and gimping abilities. Also, you might want to watch Fear and SupaTony.

Yeah, Cape and fludd ruin practically anyone with poor recovery.

I definitely see Pikachu, Marth, PT, and Wario in some sort of rise. Falco sadly is falling. My prediction as of now:

1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. King DeDeDe
4. Marth
5. Diddy Kong
6. Wario
7. Mr. Game N Watch
8. Falco
9. Donkey Kong
10. R.O.B.

I doubt Falco would drop that much. A few places certainly, but falco can still kick butt pretty well. And still has some decent matches against diddy, wario and DDD. Plus, the gaw match-up isn't as killer as people think.

 

[woody72691]

I definitely see Pikachu, Marth, PT, and Wario in some sort of rise. Falco sadly is falling. My prediction as of now:

1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. King DeDeDe
4. Marth
5. Diddy Kong
6. Wario
7. Mr. Game N Watch
8. Falco
9. Donkey Kong
10. R.O.B.

are u seroius DDD falling more rapidly then Bush's approval rating

 

[Red Arremer]

I definitely see Pikachu, Marth, PT, and Wario in some sort of rise. Falco sadly is falling. My prediction as of now:

1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. King DeDeDe
4. Marth
5. Diddy Kong
6. Wario
7. Mr. Game N Watch
8. Falco
9. Donkey Kong
10. R.O.B.

By all means, Marth is definitely not one of the best 5 characters. I personally think he's overrated. o.<

Edit:
Oh, the poster is a Marth main. Now that explains everything.

 

[Darknid]

DK will never rise above until D3's infinite is banned. Sad truth. I think Diddy belongs at 3, honestly.

1. MK
2. Snake
3. Diddy
4. D3
5. Wario

That's my top 5 for right now.

 

[Darknid]

Diddy Peanuts > DK Recovery

lol 2cents That's not to say that the matchup isn't totally in DK's favor, but still, a decent barrage and DK will be knocked too low to recover. It's all a matter of spacing on Diddy's part when DK is off stage.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUlBO4zsfmo&feature=related for a basic idea

? DK can mash up B and he will never fall too low. Plus his arms break the peanuts.

 

[Kinzer]

Was there a need to double post?

Regardless, G&W might not be so hard for Falco as a poster claimed, but what about Pikachu?

You can't get grabbed before ~35% AFAIK if that electric rat is on the battlefield now.

... Guess he wasn't lying when he said he preferred the air.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Sorry to correct you, but ness' uair kills at really low %'s i.e. 110-120 if fresh, and it isn't hard to land. And you forget the spike of death is always relible. Ness has a bunch of other kill moves too, but like you said unrelible, Pk flash, PKT2, PKT,(stage spikes), Nair, fsmash. And his wall of pain is better then alot of said characters, he has two options to make it, either spam F-airs forward, or spam N-airs in a vertical manner. I agree Ness' approach game is pretty pathetic, a 1% hit from a fair hardly sufices. Ness' best approach honestly is a dash grab.

Grab release is a !@#in female dog, but there are ways around it, by either camping by an edge, counterpicking uneven stages, counterpicking stages with small platforms, or a stage with hazards like Brinstar(my favorite counterpick for ness)

Also many people write off Ness dsmash as being relativly useless, it actually is quite useful, it hits anyone who trys to roll dodge. If you charge it, it will beat a spot dodge, and if ness' back is to his opponent it covers him. Unlike its melee counterpart, it actually has knockback if you hit with it so it does give you breathing room.

You're quite right; I don't know what I was thinking. He does have a super-awesome spike. I was not aware that his U-Air killed that well, either, but I have no problem taking your word for it.

N-Air's a decent KO move, but I usually find myself thinking "I wish I had Peach's N-Air", which is weird, because Peach cannot KO (I suppose it's the vastly-improved range). PK Thunder by itself can make for a formidable weapon in itself against slower characters, but most people can see the stagespike coming from a mile away, so it's best for free damage.

Grab-release is a major issue, though; he gets it worse than a lot of characters, and his general movement just isn't good enough to consistently maintain the "don't get grabbed" mantra often. Unfortunately, counterpicking isn't a reliable method of addressing problems in a tournament, because that essentially forces you into the idea that you HAVE to win the first game, or you HAVE to switch on the third game, because of what some characters can do.

While his Wall of Pain is defensively better than most characters, his aren't quite as damaging as some others (G&W, Dedede, Yoshi). That's a thought, albeit mostly negligible, because if the opponent can't hit you, it doesn't matter if you're not doing a ton of damage to them. Still, Ness can semi-WoP with his B-Air, too...

And his dash grab is ridiculously good, but it's still risky in itself; a spot-dodge or shorthopped air-dodge can ruin your plans and leave you open for grab-release garbage.

Either way, you're quite right; Ness is better than I gave him credit for earlier.

 

[philbobjoe]

N-Air's a decent KO move, but I usually find myself thinking "I wish I had Peach's N-Air", which is weird, because Peach cannot KO (I suppose it's the vastly-improved range).

And because it looks the same, but Ness' looks wimpier.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Marth is should probaly be Top 5.

His only bad matchups are Metaknight, Snake, and DDD, and they are not really all that bad.

There really is no character like that cept Metaknight or Wario, with almost no bad matchups.


Of course I am getting this from the Marth boards, but they did discuss it with the others.

 

[:mad:]

I can almost see Marth as being the top 5... but then again, there are other characters are are just better.
Diddy could take the 5 spot with Falco and Dedede respectively above him.

I see him as 6th or 7th.

 

[Conspiricy]

With the use of chain-choking, ganon should get higher. Twilight prince came 4th out of 49 with his ganon.

Olimar should get higher too.

-SIEG

 

[:mad:]

Chain-Choking is based on prediction, and is not guaranteed. One tournament isn't going to make any big differences in tier placement, sorry to say.

Olimar's only flaws are lack of range in the air, his weight, and recovery. So I'll give you that one, I can see him pretty high up in June.

 

[WingedKnight]

It's interesting. Falco and Dedede both seem to have dropped a bit, but there isn't really anyone to jump ahead of them. XD Diddy is a beast, Marth is good but overrated, and Wario is amazing too! They could conceivable jump ahead, IDK. Olimar is gonna move up a little, hwo much is debatable, but I doubt he'll be tied wiith Lucario anymore.
PLEASE make the next list more sense then the last two, like putting MK and Snake in one Top Tier. They're both great, but it's not that big a gap. I think the main reasons for MK's overwhelming tourney wins are M2K and Meta's popularity. To be honest, they're fairly even. Meta's got recovery, priority, and better match-ups. But Snake has projectiles, weight, and kill power. IDK, maybe I'M the crazy one, but thw separate tiers seems a bit ridiculous. MK isn't as sensationally wonderful as he once seemed.
Diddy, Wario and Olimar need to move up. As for teh lower people, I expect Sonic moving up (tourney wins, AT's), either Lucas or Ness ahead of the other (I dunno which one, let the SBR decide ), maybe a few others like Yoshi and PT. I'm intrigued by what some have said about Zelda/Sheik separate from Zelda and Sheik. It could work, and may be more accurate.

 

[Red Arremer]

Marth is should probaly be Top 5.

His only bad matchups are Metaknight, Snake, and DDD, and they are not really all that bad.

There really is no character like that cept Metaknight or Wario, with almost no bad matchups.


Of course I am getting this from the Marth boards, but they did discuss it with the others.

Marth isn't Top 5, really. There still are MK, Snake, De3, Falco and Wario who are definitely above him. Diddy and GaW are argueable, and I think those 2 share the 6th-8th ranks with Marth pretty closely together.

However, take the Marth boards' MU digits with a grain of salt, as they have a rather... unique way of determining them.

 

[:mad:]

It's interesting. Falco and Dedede both seem to have dropped a bit, but there isn't really anyone to jump ahead of them. XD Diddy is a beast, Marth is good but overrated, and Wario is amazing too! They could conceivable jump ahead, IDK. Olimar is gonna move up a little, hwo much is debatable, but I doubt he'll be tied wiith Lucario anymore.
PLEASE make the next list more sense then the last two, like putting MK and Snake in one Top Tier. They're both great, but it's not that big a gap. I think the main reasons for MK's overwhelming tourney wins are M2K and Meta's popularity. To be honest, they're fairly even. Meta's got recovery, priority, and better match-ups. But Snake has projectiles, weight, and kill power. IDK, maybe I'M the crazy one, but thw separate tiers seems a bit ridiculous. MK isn't as sensationally wonderful as he once seemed.
Diddy, Wario and Olimar need to move up. As for teh lower people, I expect Sonic moving up (tourney wins, AT's), either Lucas or Ness ahead of the other (I dunno which one, let the SBR decide ), maybe a few others like Yoshi and PT. I'm intrigued by what some have said about Zelda/Sheik separate from Zelda and Sheik. It could work, and may be more accurate.

They're both blue birds. They gotta drop some time. Diddy's becoming increasingly predictable, since you know he can't win without them. Still, they're hard to get around, which is why he's as high as he is. Marth was gifted with having every quality about him slightly above average. Decent smashes, recovery, nice specials. Best sword besides Meta. Wario would be higher if he had aerial range. That alone would move him up, and if nearly every character didn't have a good grab release on him, he'd be top 5.

I don't mind. If you're THE best in the game, you deserve your own tier. MK deserves it.

Nope. He's still sensationally wonderful. You must be playing Kirby Super Star Ultra. Mario and Ness should be above Sonic and Lucas, but that's just my own biased opinion. Mario and Ness are my two best, with Lucas in about 3rd. I forget Sonic's even there, I just can't use him.

 

[WingedKnight]

Well, I never said Meta wasn't sensationally wonderful. I think there's no doubt he's not as unstoppable as he seemed a few months ago (and hey! KSSU is a great game XD). Mario is pretty good for his gimping, no doubt about it. He could move up a bit.

 

[:mad:]

MK isn't as sensationally wonderful as he once seemed.

So he's only SLIGHTLY as sensationally wonderful as he once was?

Mario dominates low tiers along with Sonic. Mainly because Sonic can't be gimped with FLUDD or the cape. Best part about Mario is his ability to turn the game around in 2 moves. Also, Mario is the best in the game when it comes to gimping. But there's no way I can believe MK is better at taking off a stock with dair.

 

[WingedKnight]

Mario is good. Not as good as his bro, but still good. It's great to see that so many characters ARE viable.
And to end the MK thing: He's great, undoubtably the best. Maybe he deserves his own tier (Not IMO, but whatever), but he isn't broken, banworthy, cheap, overpowered, etc. He's just, the best. SO yeah, slightly as sensationally wonderful.

 

[Red Arremer]

Best part about Mario is his ability to turn the game around in 2 moves.

Quite literally, huh? XD

 

[:mad:]

Mario is good. Not as good as his bro, but still good. It's great to see that so many characters ARE viable.
And to end the MK thing: He's great, undoubtably the best. Maybe he deserves his own tier (Not IMO, but whatever), but he isn't broken, banworthy, cheap, overpowered, etc. He's just, the best. SO yeah, slightly as sensationally wonderful.

Luigi will always be the little brother.
Also, no. Meta Knight is obviously overpowered. Broken, everything you just said. Those are just smash synonyms for "the best."

Quite literally, huh? XD

... well played, Spadefox.

 

[WingedKnight]

Also, no. Meta Knight is obviously overpowered. Broken, everything you just said. Those are just smash synonyms for "the best."

Sounds so negative though, makes me feel guilty for using my favorite video game character of all time.
And lol at Spadefox.

 

[:mad:]

Sounds so negative though, makes me feel guilty for using my favorite video game character of all time.
And lol at Spadefox.

So? You're using a broken character, lol. Don't feel guilty. People just don't respect top tier users as much. Especially MKs, because you're one in a hundred thousand.

Meta Knight is not a good favorite video game character.

 

[WingedKnight]

LOL, to each his own I suppose.
Yeah, so many people use Meta just because he's good. How it's always been, how it's always gonna be. I just don't like it when the spammy n00bs come in with only their Tornados and DSmashes and give us all a bad name. XP Very few of us remain who played him when he was considered mediocre. LOL

 

[:mad:]

He was never considered mediocre, lol. Also, you all use Dsmash, you all tornado, you all shuttle loop. Without those moves, you won't win. They contribute to his borkneness.

And you also never realized this... but... Brawl is so balanced. All the characters are equally amazing, people just suck with everyone except Meta Knight.

 

[Red Arremer]

The problem is not the "little respect" thing for MK players. The problem isn't the character's "brokenness", either. MK has major problems, though... Everyone expects and knows him. And every character board has tried to find strategies to deal with MKs. That means that a ton of people know the MU - of every character you will face, most likely - and know how to deal with you.

 

[:mad:]

I never said those were Meta Knight's problems, Spade. xD
Just the things you deal with when using said Meat Knight.

Having a tier list just gives you a popularity list. You'll expect to see more MKs and Snakes, so you prepare more for those matches.

 

[Red Arremer]

Well, "problems" is prolly a bit exaggerated, but that's what MK players will have to deal with: Everyone knows your character, his strenghts and weaknesses.

And yes, I agree. Brawl is darn balanced, except for like the few worst characters. Unbelievable, but still interesting. I already knew when I got the game that it kinda felt better balanced than Melee. XD

 

[WingedKnight]

Without a doubt, Brawl is quite balanced. Practically everyone can be used to great effect, it's just to few people bother with the "lower" characters. A low tier character in Brawl is VERY different from a low tier character in Melee! XD

 

[:mad:]

My argument towards your first statement: Meta Knight IS the problem!

I still go to Melee tournies, even though all I see are space animals and Marfs.
lol no way is Melee balanced.

I tried using Captain Falcon to great effect. It didn't work.

 

[DanGR]

Olimar's only flaws are lack of range in the air, his weight, and recovery. So I'll give you that one, I can see him pretty high up in June.

How about the fact that most of his attacks have virtually no priority, and he's got a slow (startup), super armor-less grab? Or that he's got a very poor close-up game?

 

[WingedKnight]

*MK user contemplates whether to leave or face the collective wrath of MK-hate through Straked*

 

[:mad:]

How about the fact that most of his attacks have virtually no priority, and he's got a slow (startup), super armor-less grab? Or that he's got a very poor close-up game?

I was giving a vague description of Olimar, seeing as how I personally hate playing against him with a passion. My apoligies if I missed some minor details.

Haha. I don't hate Meta Knight. I just find him insanely boring to use. You and I both know you won't quit MK.

 

[WingedKnight]

That's the best part about this game, there is someone for everyone! There is literally a character for everyone's personal tastes, and with Brawl it seems like there are actually people who represent all the different tastes (not just Spacies and Marth).

 

[:mad:]

That's not entirely true. I main Ness in Melee, despite the terrible character design and moves.
I mean... he looked so stupid. So I switched to Doc and Falcon. But that's besides the point.

Tier list also influences a few insecure smashes. Some people pick characters based on this very list.

 

[WingedKnight]

Tier list also influences a few insecure smashes. Some people pick characters based on this very list.

Too true. I've known people who mastered a character, devoted their time to maining them, did great, and then the tier list came out and September and they were like "What? Only Mid-tier? Must use MK/Snake/Dedede".
At least I owned their fledgling Knights. >:-)

 

[:mad:]

Huh? What was that? A Meta Knight main was just talking, I wasn't paying attention.

Same here. Some people are actually influenced by the opposite, and go Falcon.

 

[WingedKnight]

Haha, very amusing.
Yeah, I've known that to happen. That's just funny though (and admittedly kinda cool). Look at the difference in the worst characters: Falcon in Brawl, Pichu in Melee. Who's more respectable?

 

[:mad:]

I'd go with the Pichu main. Falcon's bad and all, but I mean come on. The poor thing hurts itself.

Either way, back to the discussion. Marth isn't good enough for top 5.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How do we feel about Falco? Thing is, so many things about him are just really good fundamentally, but he doesn't have anything besides a 0-50% chaingrab that's stupidly abusable. Does he deserve his spot through this?