The *Official* Pittsburgh Melee Weeklies Thread of the LoL WoW Love

[Mogwai]

hmmm, well, I'd still feel better seeing how I would do myself before passing judgment on my level of suckiness. . . Also, met another dude who might be willing to travel to tournaments, so if there's anything good in the 2-3 hour range soon, let me know and I'll see if he'll do it.

 

[D20]

Yeah, let's not talk about doubles...

Anyhow, in singles, I beat Camper Bob and AlphaZealot before losing to Joe Bushman. I also lost to Sliq... although I at least took him to three games.

I got two-stocked by Drephen's Luigi in friendlies, although I only got one-stocked by his Sheik... weird.

That's all I got to say, I leave the rest up to the other guys.

 

[pockyD]

that's a tough bracket o_o

alphazealot play peach?

 

[D20]

I got his Peach on Kanto and two-stocked it. He took me to FD and picked Falco. He won... I took him to Yoshi's Story and beat his Doc.

I stayed Young Link the whole time.

I picked Marth once against Camper Bob and once against Sliq... I lost both matches.

 

[pockyD]

you lost marth vs. jiggs? !!@?!@!!

!!!?@?@!

 

[D20]

Yeah... I lost to his Jiggs with my Marth on FD and to his Falco on Yoshi's Story. Picking Marth probably wasn't the best idea because his friend, Kel, mains Marth. The players at this tournament were all ridiculous. Basically, the best of Ohio was there.

 

[A-Laon]

hmmm, well, I'd still feel better seeing how I would do myself before passing judgment on my level of suckiness. . .

I was speaking rather all-encompassingly. We all witnessed first-hand what the upper level of play in this game means and is capable of, and I can quite assuringly state that nobody in Pittsburgh is even tapping on the door of this level. I'm not saying that we should be beating pros, but we should definitely heighten the level of our game, because it's nothing outside of average as of now.

 

[takieddine]

I got 2-stocked by vidjo in a marth ditto.

Camper Bob won all of his matches against me except the first match of our set(3-stock by me).

Drephen is just too fuxing amazing...(2-stocked my fox w/ sheik)

Everyone else I played was even or I beat. (oh yeah Kel, also 2-stocked me) .

All in all it was fun, but i think i could have done way better.

 

[heynivek]

i don't think its fair to say that jiggs vs. marth is that easy. jiggs punishes wiffs and edgegaurds so well. . . XP

i think 5th place is pretty darn good. These guys are just older, have more experience, and have the option of playing at competitive events on a regular basis.

it does leave the question as to "how we can get better". Its kinda hard to say how if you don't really have the option of travelling to ohio every week to play with competitive people better than you.

 

[SwiftBass]

i don't think its fair to say that jiggs vs. marth is that easy. jiggs punishes wiffs and edgegaurds so well. . . XP

i think 5th place is pretty darn good. These guys are just older, have more experience, and have the option of playing at competitive events on a regular basis.

it does leave the question as to "how we can get better". Its kinda hard to say how if you don't really have the option of travelling to ohio every week to play with competitive people better than you.

u have to be rly good jiggs, marth spaces perfectly and can 3-4 stock easy on lvls other FD IMHO

 

[pockyD]

I'm not saying that we should be beating pros, but we should definitely heighten the level of our game, because it's nothing outside of average as of now.

I'm sorry, i don't understand what else can be done other than playing 2-3x a week, seeing as we don't regularly have a chance to play people better than us

being at the top of your local scene sucks =\

edit: and a good marth shouldn't really whiff... jiggs has no answer to fair, especially fair out of shield (no WOP for you)

 

[takieddine]

you lost marth vs. jiggs? !!@?!@!!

!!!?@?@!

Its no mediocre jiggs, He'd duck a grab, and F#%! sleep you... He was also a good rest comboer.

 

[xyt]

Alan: i don't think it's fair to say that we don't stack up to them considering
half of our best players were not there. Like Wes said, it's not to say that we
would win or that we're better but i would rather make a judgement like that
after playing them myself. so if you wanna be "not even close to tapping
their door" please don't try to sound like you're speaking for everyone.

It's cool that you all had fun. thanks for repping us : D!

and gosh.. i'm so angry i didn't get to play drephen -_-)...

 

[D20]

I've never played against a decent Jigglypuff with Marth before. Knowing what works, and actually doing it, are two different things.

That Jigglypuff was doing stuff I've never seen before. If I remember correctly, he sent Evan to the losers' bracket, too. Wes, we're going to need you to break out that Jiggs more often.

 

[A-Laon]

snip

I was simply speaking from an analytical standpoint, concluding that the high-level players play the game in such a radically deeper manner than any of us. I can accurately speak for everyone because if there was anybody among us putting the same level of strategy and thought into this game as I described, then they'd be virtually undefeated.

 

[pockyD]

whatever dude, it was just a weird thing to say

no one here claims to be pro or anything close, but we can look around and see that we're the best our local area and that we have improved significantly in the last 6 months, so we are doing all we can to get better

putting everyone down like that will obviously rub people the wrong way

 

[Mogwai]

I was simply speaking from an analytical standpoint, concluding that the high-level players play the game in such a radically deeper manner than any of us. I can accurately speak for everyone because if there was anybody among us putting the same level of strategy and thought into this game as I described, then they'd be virtually undefeated.

The thing is. . . you're not really describing what they're doing differently, you're just saying, "they're on a whole nother level", which at least frustrates me because that's completely unhelpful for trying to improve. This is one of the many reasons I would've liked to go to this myself, but if you're going to make a statement like, "we can't compete with that", at least try to give us some sort of idea of what that is, because honestly, I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Also, sorry if this is sounding really d!ck, I'm just trying to figure out why we suck at smash rather than just having another voice in the choir of "Pittsburgh Sucks"

 

[__HARM__]

Yea the tournament was sick. Playing drephen was sweet and the turnout was amazing. I noticed the whole argument with competing with the pros and stuff. All alan is saying is we can't compete at that level right now, not that we can't down the road. People like vidjo and drephen have been playing competively for 4 years and have been traveling the u.s.a for as long; thinking we can duplicate that type of expierence on fridays is nieve. Don't take it all personal, the level of pittsburgh smash is pretty good. On average we beat almost everyone there that wasn't pro. I went 18 and 7 in friendlies, i wasnt sure who was good or who was bad but i just asked anyone i didnt play to play me. I had to play a really good jiggs in the tournament, which sucked because i never play jiggs, and me and alan had a pretty epic set but he got the best of me. The match i won was a samus ditto and then against a shiek, wich was cool because i learned some tricks from the samus.

The only thing pros have on us is expierence, we are sooo used to each others play styles that we need to travel to witness how other people in other areas play the game. Pittsburgh definiltly has it own unique style because we learn and grow from each other. Like taki said "man i do great at playing you guys, but not these guys."
That is only from a lack of experience.

as vidjo said, " play as many tournaments and mm's you can because thats what makes you better, friendlies can only take you so far."

well anyways i <3 pittsburgh smash

 

[A-Laon]

The thing is. . . you're not really describing what they're doing differently, you're just saying, "they're on a whole nother level", which at least frustrates me because that's completely unhelpful for trying to improve. This is one of the many reasons I would've liked to go to this myself, but if you're going to make a statement like, "we can't compete with that", at least try to give us some sort of idea of what that is, because honestly, I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Also, sorry if this is sounding really d!ck, I'm just trying to figure out why we suck at smash rather than just having another voice in the choir of "Pittsburgh Sucks"

Apparently nobody picked up on the hyperbole in my comment of "we all suck," and didn't realize that I was simply relating us to the better players in a facetious manner, and for that I'll apologize. I didn't really expect anybody to take me seriously, bashing the whole Pittsburgh smash community that I love so much to be a part of. I'm sorry if anybody took that the wrong way... seriously, I thought it was quite obviously a harmless exaggeration. I guess you just needed to have been there and experienced it to follow my comment the right way. Sorry.

And as for describing this whole "other level," I've given it a bit of thought and I'll do my best -- it's the deeper and more effective level of prediction and counter-acting that totally changes the way we play the game. It's what makes watching Ken to try to learn mindgames to be utterly useless unless you're a telepathic, and it's why, as discussed earlier, Vidjo's marth doesn't have to look impressive to 3-stock the lot of us.

A comparison I made yesterday is to say that one player is on the ground below a low platform and the other is on top of that platform. A pro below the platform would recall all the patterns of the other player and then anticipate the next action, ready the optimal move to counter it, and move into position to space it perfectly for maximum effectiveness. What would we probably do? 'Just jump right up at them with our up-airs.

We take simplistic and very linear paths to defeat our opponents, whereas upper level players construct very convoluted strategies which exploit absolutely every weakness of their opponents in the most damaging ways possible, and then fluxuate to fit every different scenario, always delivering the absolute best means of defeating the other player. I guess you could say that it is that which divides the "levels" of tactics. The amateur does a lot of guessing and punishes with what they can get -- the pro predicts every action and punishes in the best way possible.

Now I doubt this is anything new to any of you; however, it is not until you've been on the receiving end that you fully appreciate precisely how different the higher-level playstyle really is. I'm not gonna bother trying to stress its importance myself. Whenever you find a chance to play a set with Vidjo, or any other non-sandbagging (this is important!) pro, the critical differences become very apparent and very real.

</essay>

 

[heynivek]

i think harm is right when he says the only real difference is experience. You guys seems to beat the majority of players or at least be even with them. It was just the "pros" that seemed classes away from you guys. These are just the few players in that area who have been able to travel far and wide to play against the nations best in other regions.

 

[ReadySetGo]

No one mentioned this yet so I must, Drephen's Sheik wasn't actually gay in person, it was just amazing (yes even when he CGed me to 110% the one stock).


As for my results, I won my first match against a mediocre C. Falcon, then played Soap (he's a decent Sheik player better than myself) I lost my first game when we Sheik dittoed, then I won my second with ICs, and the third game I had a stock lead with ICs and just blew it (just ask Taki) had I beat him I could have gotten 5th (loosing Joe Bushman on the way and some IC that wobbled). Even if I had gotten 5th that way it wouldn't have been as awesome as watching Rob beat Camper Bob after he said "Looks like I'll be playing Alpha Zealot in the second round" which was who Rob beat in the first round.

As for what Alan stated, hes right, these guys just do the most profitable things all the time. They make decision so much better than we do.

 

[SwiftBass]

We take simplistic and very linear paths to defeat our opponents

hey it isnt about linearness or simplicity. Drephens style is a perfect example(from what i've seen, and by all means this is a complement to his style). He uses a limited amount of moves and wins. that both linear and simplistic. Its all about execution, mindgaming and know what to do @ the right time. On the contrary i made my fox game much simpler in the past few months and it wins much more than it did back then.(Nairs etc.)

just because certain "paths" dont win doesnt mean that they're linear or simplistic. If u need more example as to why lemme know.

 

[Nakamaru]

I still think harm said it best. We have all the skill that the pros, and good players have, but we just lack experience. They have seen it all, and i mean everything. So they know how to deal with pretty much everything without much though. We however are still working on out metagames for our characters, and matchups. I think that its good to have fridays to keep from getting rusty, but at this point we all know each other's style pretty well. So we arent getting as much from each other as we were when we started duquesne fridays. So the more tournaments and people we can play, the more we will grow in our smash games. Thats really all we are lacking. Tournament experience, and the vast numbers of different styles under our sleves to pull out when needed.

 

[pockyD]

"skill" is such a broad term =\

yes yes, the only way to improve is by playing more people, especially people better than you

so whose fault was it that a lot of us couldn't make it to ohio yesterday =\

 

[xyt]

Apparently nobody picked up on the hyperbole in my comment of "we all suck," and didn't realize that I was simply relating us to the better players in a facetious manner, and for that I'll apologize. I didn't really expect anybody to take me seriously, bashing the whole Pittsburgh smash community that I love so much to be a part of. I'm sorry if anybody took that the wrong way... seriously, I thought it was quite obviously a harmless exaggeration. I guess you just needed to have been there and experienced it to follow my comment the right way. Sorry.

And as for describing this whole "other level," I've given it a bit of thought and I'll do my best -- it's the deeper and more effective level of prediction and counter-acting that totally changes the way we play the game. It's what makes watching Ken to try to learn mindgames to be utterly useless unless you're a telepathic, and it's why, as discussed earlier, Vidjo's marth doesn't have to look impressive to 3-stock the lot of us.

A comparison I made yesterday is to say that one player is on the ground below a low platform and the other is on top of that platform. A pro below the platform would recall all the patterns of the other player and then anticipate the next action, ready the optimal move to counter it, and move into position to space it perfectly for maximum effectiveness. What would we probably do? 'Just jump right up at them with our up-airs.

We take simplistic and very linear paths to defeat our opponents, whereas upper level players construct very convoluted strategies which exploit absolutely every weakness of their opponents in the most damaging ways possible, and then fluxuate to fit every different scenario, always delivering the absolute best means of defeating the other player. I guess you could say that it is that which divides the "levels" of tactics. The amateur does a lot of guessing and punishes with what they can get -- the pro predicts every action and punishes in the best way possible.

Now I doubt this is anything new to any of you; however, it is not until you've been on the receiving end that you fully appreciate precisely how different the higher-level playstyle really is. I'm not gonna bother trying to stress its importance myself. Whenever you find a chance to play a set with Vidjo, or any other non-sandbagging (this is important!) pro, the critical differences become very apparent and very real.

</essay>

saying "mindgames" probably would have been easier @_@)...

 

[takieddine]

When I say we need to get better, I'm talking about consistently/getting even with beating people like vidjo and drephen.

Because As is right now, IMO pittsburgh as a whole can take the best non-pro's Ohio's got.

And that should kill that discussion right there.

Anywho, anyone free today? (tim?)

 

[pockyD]

i know i said i was busy this morning but honestly i'm not going to start doing hw/study until past 9 anyway

i'd be free to throw down for an hour or two

 

[Cactuar]

You guys have the right idea. Get as much tournament and mm experience as you can. Friendlies only go so far. And I mean tournaments with people outside of your area. You can have as many tournaments as you want, but if no one good goes, it doesn't really mean much.

Don't be delusional and overestimate your own skill though. You don't have the same ability, technical or otherwise, as top level players.

 

[xyt]

You guys have the right idea. Get as much tournament and mm experience as you can. Friendlies only go so far. And I mean tournaments with people outside of your area. You can have as many tournaments as you want, but if no one good goes, it doesn't really mean much.

Don't be delusional and overestimate your own skill though. You don't have the same ability, technical or otherwise, as top level players.

not sure whether this is advice or an attempt to be a jerk

but either way thank you ... i think -_-)..

 

[Renth]

Cactuars the man.

 

[__HARM__]

You guys have the right idea. Get as much tournament and mm experience as you can. Friendlies only go so far. And I mean tournaments with people outside of your area. You can have as many tournaments as you want, but if no one good goes, it doesn't really mean much.

Don't be delusional and overestimate your own skill though. You don't have the same ability, technical or otherwise, as top level players.

yep, well pittsburghs going to be worken on that.

 

[xyt]

Cactuars the man.

you mean.... he's not a cactus? @_@)...

how disappointing....

 

[__HARM__]

you mean.... he's not a cactus? @_@)...

how disappointing....

wow shiek......wow

 

[takieddine]

Don't be delusional and overestimate your own skill though. You don't have the same ability, technical or otherwise, as top level players.

I dont think we overestimate ourselves at all. In fact , I would say we(at least I) got the right idea of my skill level.

Also, I would beg to differ on "not having the same technical skill as top level players", some of us surpass them, not that it would make us win or anything.

 

[pockyD]

careful taki, you're approaching the shiz side of the argument

edit: on another note, when are we leaving for mowfest? CMU has no classes thurs/fri =)

 

[TSK]

:\ i have classes fridays and i think that friday i'll be having a test so i won't be able to leave till 3ish

Also i don't have class till 3 tomorrow so if taki/rob/anyone else? wants to play some smash i should be around the nitespot until 3... i haven't gotten to play anyone since wednesday ;_;

 

[A-Laon]

hey it isnt about linearness or simplicity. Drephens style is a perfect example(from what i've seen, and by all means this is a complement to his style). He uses a limited amount of moves and wins. that both linear and simplistic. Its all about execution, mindgaming and know what to do @ the right time. On the contrary i made my fox game much simpler in the past few months and it wins much more than it did back then.(Nairs etc.)

just because certain "paths" dont win doesnt mean that they're linear or simplistic. If u need more example as to why lemme know.

I wasn't referring to simplicity in our actions, but simplicity in the way we think. Higher-level players equate in so many factors regarding the scenario and the other player to achieve the immensely profitable (good word for it Matt) results that they do. We simply think "he did this -- I'll try this."

Ironically, the more they think about their actions, the less they actually act. They're more efficient.

saying "mindgames" probably would have been easier @_@)...

I would have figured as much, but after experiencing it first hand, it's so much more than what we casually toss around as "mindgames."

I dont think we overestimate ourselves at all. In fact , I would say we(at least I) got the right idea of my skill level.

Also, I would beg to differ on "not having the same technical skill as top level players", some of us surpass them, not that it would make us win or anything.

Personally, I tend to think all upper level players beat us technically... not because they can perform more doubleshines or shffl more quickly... but because they can consistently use every move they have to position themselves and act perfectly in response to whatever their opponent does at any given time. I see that to be insane technical ability, even if it doesn't look all impressive.

 

[Nakamaru]

Can we drop the argument... Please? Alan, you cant tell exactly what is wrong with us just from one tournament. You do have good points, but you dont have all the answers.

Anyway Mow fest informantion for Naka's Car.
-Leaving friday at around 1:30 duquesne. Picking up Mark at around 3:30 at his house. Arive at around 5:30 at Cape's.

edit-You kill my plans TSK. -_-
Alright new plan. If you are in my car post your schedule for that day..

 

[pockyD]

we can rideswap... me and wes are off class friday so if there's someone else in your car that's got class in the afternoon we can make a simple trade

or even if no one else is, i could trade with tsk =)

SHOTGUN~~~

edit: the argument is stupid. alan is right, but it's something that i believe we already are aware of and was poorly expressed. we are making an argument out of a misunderstanding =[

 

[Nakamaru]

So Im taking;
-Mark
-Taki
-Tim
-Kevin

Sorry but Tim already called shotgun. :/ Could always try blitzing him.