I fixed my point system since then. I was calculating things wrong. : PWhen ankoku was using the point system I wentfrom non pr to 3rd spot after one tourney
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The Official Michigan Brawl Power Rankings: Season 11 Images Up!
- Thread starter Ori_bro
- Start date
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I don't really think anyone can stop you from making such a thing Zyth...
But anyways, those things are only stable after many events, so, just note that, or implement a system that takes this into account (like trueskill or ELO's scaling). Also, You may want to implement some sort of system like AiB's Trueskill has for penalizing inactivity. Honestly I think either the money system (not counting MMs) or a points system are the best calls. They just take more events to gain stability, and no one looks past their first ranking list to get those advantages.
But anyways, those things are only stable after many events, so, just note that, or implement a system that takes this into account (like trueskill or ELO's scaling). Also, You may want to implement some sort of system like AiB's Trueskill has for penalizing inactivity. Honestly I think either the money system (not counting MMs) or a points system are the best calls. They just take more events to gain stability, and no one looks past their first ranking list to get those advantages.
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
we should just change the PR after every tournament to be the same as that tournament's results
probably wouldnt be too different than what we do now
probably wouldnt be too different than what we do now
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
nope i got 4th in my 2nd round pool 
OFFICIAL MI BRAWL PR -
1. lain
2. gio
3. ori_bro
hm - the mann
OFFICIAL MI BRAWL PR -
1. lain
2. gio
3. ori_bro
hm - the mann
zyth
Smash Lord
yea I do plan on doin this any way, simply cuz i think this is more stable and i want to see how this works. and inactivity will be penalized because there will be a decay system to punish the inactives. I think i'm gonna do a test run based off last PRs tourny results just to make sure I can do the calculations right
Roller
Smash Legend
Firstly, Texas also has a system like that. Points where off after X months. Inactives are still on top.
Second. How far you make it into bracket is no indication at all of how good you are. Not even close. For instance, last tournament Arc won. He made it all the way through Grand Finals. Yet he did not face a single power ranked (or even close) player along the way. According to your system, he would (if the tournament had been held a few weeks later) be placed very highly in the ratings. Yet at a tournament like Phoenix Saga, it is entirely possible he could be taken out 1st or 2nd round by a non-pr level player. (Duck knocked him out of last tourney iirc) In terms of skill he most likely isn't even in the top 16 in the state, yet on your list he would be right up there, even with depreciation he would probably end the season in the top 8.
It's really a silly method for determining player skill.
For instance, DRDN could play and beat Apasher first round, then lose to Ori, then beat SuperTH in losers, then lose to PzO.
Meanwhile, you could have Lain round 1, lose, then have Kenny in round 1 losers (after I send him there again
) BEAT him (because he is free ) then face Anther the following round and lose.
By your scale, DRDN would be higher ranked than you. Yet all he did was beat 2 players who are not on PR level. Meanwhile, you take out a well respected player and only lose to 2 very good players.
Who did better at that tourney? Quite frankly, you would have. But your points system would tell another tale.
Second. How far you make it into bracket is no indication at all of how good you are. Not even close. For instance, last tournament Arc won. He made it all the way through Grand Finals. Yet he did not face a single power ranked (or even close) player along the way. According to your system, he would (if the tournament had been held a few weeks later) be placed very highly in the ratings. Yet at a tournament like Phoenix Saga, it is entirely possible he could be taken out 1st or 2nd round by a non-pr level player. (Duck knocked him out of last tourney iirc) In terms of skill he most likely isn't even in the top 16 in the state, yet on your list he would be right up there, even with depreciation he would probably end the season in the top 8.
It's really a silly method for determining player skill.
For instance, DRDN could play and beat Apasher first round, then lose to Ori, then beat SuperTH in losers, then lose to PzO.
Meanwhile, you could have Lain round 1, lose, then have Kenny in round 1 losers (after I send him there again
) BEAT him (because he is free ) then face Anther the following round and lose.By your scale, DRDN would be higher ranked than you. Yet all he did was beat 2 players who are not on PR level. Meanwhile, you take out a well respected player and only lose to 2 very good players.
Who did better at that tourney? Quite frankly, you would have. But your points system would tell another tale.
My points system is TrueSkill :D
Roller
Smash Legend
Ankoku's would be more accurate.
I'm still completely against using those type of systems to determine player rankings (official or not), but TrueSkill is better than what you are proposing.
I'm still completely against using those type of systems to determine player rankings (official or not), but TrueSkill is better than what you are proposing.
zyth
Smash Lord
well the system i plan on using will, over time, flesh itself out to show exactly who the best are. its wat SF uses and it was compiled over long periods of time, not just one season. and once again, this is a test run, and I'm just puttin it out there. u dont have to go off the rankings i show
points thread is up
points thread is up
This x100
Not all placings are created equal. That's why there are no PRs out there (at least, not that I know of) that take numerical placings into consideration... it should only be about who you beat and who you lost to.
Ankoku's Trueskill Ranking was pretty legit. I could never do the math that it makes you need to do though lol. Let zyth just do his small project haha, its not like he is trying to force it down our throats as what should be done.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
Lol Ori, there are web apps that do the trueskil math for you. I'd write a program, though.
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
Your example hurts my feelings. My track record against DRDN is in my favor. 2010 Youmacon matches too legit.
DRDN
Smash Master
Are you going to ohyocon? I'm doing MMs thereYour example hurts my feelings. My track record against DRDN is in my favor. 2010 Youmacon matches too legit.
Oh and I could beat ori
DRDN
Smash Master
zyth
Smash Lord
I died twice
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
i dont see how it's funny
we all know it's true
we all know it's true
Yaokzir
Smash Rookie
I want to be on this!
SCOTU
Smash Hero
It's funny cause it's a completely different meme plasterwrapped onto this context.i dont see how it's funny
we all know it's true
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
The last few pages have been extra hilarious.
Am I even supposed to add GTS2 to the OP. Would there even be a point?
Am I even supposed to add GTS2 to the OP. Would there even be a point?
dont count GTS2
Roller
Smash Legend
No, we said we would count it, it should be included. You can't retroactively say it doesn't count. It would only really be important to remove it from Zyth's crappy point system. By our system, it wont matter much because nobody beat any top players. But we told them it would count, and to demand that those who showed up come to more than 2 tourneys after we told them that would count for 1 is grimey.
So as a tourney it counts, imo. However none of the individual matches really do.
Actually. idk. It's a stupid situation. I don't care what happens with it..
So as a tourney it counts, imo. However none of the individual matches really do.
Actually. idk. It's a stupid situation. I don't care what happens with it..
But we have removed tourneys from counting in past seasons because of a lack of attendance.
Roller
Smash Legend
And that is ******** and I was against it. I just wasn't a panel member. We also counted Masonfest last season and I think that had 9..
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Roller, I see your point.
But:
It has 8 entrants and not a single person who went would make it on the PR if they went to a series of tournaments with any of the current or past PR members. (I could be wrong but past results point me in that direction)
I mean I can understand your point but shouldn't we draw the line somewhere? I'm currently on the fence but ....yeah. 8 entrants/no PRed players lol. At the same time, I guess it doesnt hurt since it used a "regular" ruleset.
But:
It has 8 entrants and not a single person who went would make it on the PR if they went to a series of tournaments with any of the current or past PR members. (I could be wrong but past results point me in that direction)
I mean I can understand your point but shouldn't we draw the line somewhere? I'm currently on the fence but ....yeah. 8 entrants/no PRed players lol. At the same time, I guess it doesnt hurt since it used a "regular" ruleset.
Roller
Smash Legend
That's essentially what I'm saying. We count it. How much the individual matches matter is up to the individual panel members in their own decision making processes as always.
wtf? Isn't this PR subjectively based on people looking through tournaments and seeing who beat who? Why would the presence or lack thereof of PR'd players at a given tournament have a negative effect when all of you are going to be using its brackets and matchups as the criteria for rating players rather than simple number results anyway?
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
hahah tony dont bother
Roller
Smash Legend
^my thoughts essentially. I just added the grimyness of telling people the tourney would count beforehand, then not count it. But yeah. I agree with Tony.
What's The Point
Smash Master
No tournament has not been counted because of lack of attendance.
DRDN
Smash Master
@ ori cons can't have short notice its annual that's like saying your not going to xmas because you didn't have enough notice
@gio agreed in a stacked tourney
@rollers resons for not liking other systems of ranking...to fix mine and thugz domination you keep point values for the $ and anything over $20 is counted as 20 points and you can only MM during tourneys, 1 MM per opponent
The current ranking system has shown its flaws as well...like bowyer calling a 2-0 on everyone but lain and getting it on the final tourney of the season and still got out placed on the pr by gio who was one of the victims
Sounds like trueskill is the best way for you to go
@gio agreed in a stacked tourney
@rollers resons for not liking other systems of ranking...to fix mine and thugz domination you keep point values for the $ and anything over $20 is counted as 20 points and you can only MM during tourneys, 1 MM per opponent
The current ranking system has shown its flaws as well...like bowyer calling a 2-0 on everyone but lain and getting it on the final tourney of the season and still got out placed on the pr by gio who was one of the victims
Sounds like trueskill is the best way for you to go
Roller
Smash Legend
First of all. DRDN, don't you usually get 3rd-5th seed at nonstacked tourneys? I think you were 3rd seed in my pool that tourney Ragequaza won...
Second. Just no @ your idea. That is the most convoluted and illogical bs I've heard for a point based ranking system.
Third, 2-0ing a bunch of people at the most recent tournament does not mean you should just suddenly get put above all the people you beat..
If that were true, I'd be 2nd on the PR right now. I 2-0'd both Kenny (who was #2 on the PR at the time) and Sparta Kick (then #3, current #2) back to back and only lost to Shugo and Lain on the last tourney of the season..
Considering Shugo isn't elligible for our PR and is #1 in OH. It's the EXACT same situation, and Sparta is 2 spots above me. And it is obviously correct that he should be.
I'm tired of people thinking they know more than the majority of the panel, and then suggesting stupid crap and justifying it with even dumber crap.
Second. Just no @ your idea. That is the most convoluted and illogical bs I've heard for a point based ranking system.
Third, 2-0ing a bunch of people at the most recent tournament does not mean you should just suddenly get put above all the people you beat..
If that were true, I'd be 2nd on the PR right now. I 2-0'd both Kenny (who was #2 on the PR at the time) and Sparta Kick (then #3, current #2) back to back and only lost to Shugo and Lain on the last tourney of the season..
Considering Shugo isn't elligible for our PR and is #1 in OH. It's the EXACT same situation, and Sparta is 2 spots above me. And it is obviously correct that he should be.
I'm tired of people thinking they know more than the majority of the panel, and then suggesting stupid crap and justifying it with even dumber crap.
DRDN
Smash Master
Lol I should be last seed but I do differently depending on the person really (unless its peach or wario I can't fight them for some reason)
What's so convoluded
The $ earned is equal to its points
Tournament winnings count fully
you are able to MM as many people at tourneys as you want
You can only have the first MM you do count
For MMs the point max is 20 per MM
I explained it in 5 lines isn't that about howmuch the UR put towards nerfing MK
And you act like bowyer didn't have history being on the pr and before the tourney the whole panel was not sure on who should be higher gio or bowyer then bowyer did well and got shafted...just saying no systems perfect
Trueskill still seems like the best choice
What's so convoluded
The $ earned is equal to its points
Tournament winnings count fully
you are able to MM as many people at tourneys as you want
You can only have the first MM you do count
For MMs the point max is 20 per MM
I explained it in 5 lines isn't that about howmuch the UR put towards nerfing MK
And you act like bowyer didn't have history being on the pr and before the tourney the whole panel was not sure on who should be higher gio or bowyer then bowyer did well and got shafted...just saying no systems perfect
Trueskill still seems like the best choice