The Official Kentucky Brawl PR

[KassandraNova]

I can also still do the art for this PR image like last time if you'd like. ;_;

 

[Ralph Cecil]

EDIT:Nvm i'm probably not saying what I mean to say right. >_<

 

[SoulPech]

Ralph if you tell me what you were going to say, I can reword it for you :3

 

[DtJ Composer]

We're just talking about tournaments that don't have attendance outside of a scene in a state(i.e. Greenup only attendance, Louisville only attendace, Lexington only attendance, e.t.c.).

Right. And that's the crux of what I'm trying to say.

Talking to the people in Kentucky, I would just like to say that we have decided that throughout this season and all of the following, there will be a new rule regarding which tournaments will count towards the PR.

"If a tournament is only involving locals, then it will not count towards the PR." Something along those lines.

So Lexington has a ranbat. The sluggers come out (SP, Judo, S2, Kero).
Kero beats Judo in Winners finals and Grand finals.

The thing is, if you're making a PR, you still need to bring these games into account because they happened in a tournament setting in a bracket match. According to the rule quoted (which I can assume wasn't just Joey mistyping something because one of you would have fixed it by now if that were the case), you will pretend this tournament never happened and that Judo doesn't have these losses. You can't make a completely true PR and completely ignore results--you need to treat wins as wins and, more importantly, treat losses as losses.
Like I said, you don't have to treat a loss at a Lexington local with the same weight that you'd treat one at an S2D or a Rain or whatever, but you still need to treat it like a loss.

So, while I understand that when you say something like:

Also we're not acting like wins/losses against people you practice didn't happen, but if they don't show that they can consistently beat other people of their friends level(or at least around it) then we will take that into consideration.

you mean it sincerely, the rule you guys are considering putting into place contradicts that entirely because the rule basically says "playing in a tournament of only people you play all the time doesn't count as a tournament".

 

[Mister Eric]

you mean it sincerely, the rule you guys are considering putting into place contradicts that entirely because the rule basically says "playing in a tournament of only people you play all the time doesn't count as a tournament".

^
He's right. We have contradicting wants and needs that we need to sort out.
Let us talk it over (while considering everything mentioned). We'll come to a solution soon.

 

[Dooms]

I guess it should be changed to "It will not count towards your total tournament count, as it doesn't give us the required variety of results" instead of not counting at all. Ralph suggested that in the facebook group and I wouldn't mind that personally. o-o.

 

[Judo777]

I was assured that the Lex ranbats would count before I entered them. I wouldn't have wasted my money, if they weren't gonna count. Especially since winning them did not net me money immediately (or at all due to my poor attendance, I might not get first).

Just out of curiosity, what wins do S2, Kero and Ralph have over players of my skill level (curious to see who you think is my skill level)

And to go off of a previous statement, the reason why my best wins of the season outside of Ralph, Kero, S2, SP and all of Lexington, is because like I said, my brackets are notoriously hard. The only people I lost to this last season were Zinoto and Kismet (btw serious johns verse kismet I SDed both games). I'm never lucky enough to get to play those kinda good players that don't place 5th and 3rd out of 100 people. The only not-completely ridiculous players that are still really good that I got to play......happen to be people in my state, that apparently don't count.

Like I can only play the people the bracket allows me to but I proved my merit at every possible opportunity. And if the only good people I get to play this season is every single person on our PR (bar possibly you and Eric) but I win, I don't see how that can be overlooked.

On a final side note for the season only have 5 individual game losses. 2 a piece to Zinoto and Kismet, and 1 game loss to Spec (he won game 2) with no losses outside of these.

 

[DtJ Composer]

(btw serious johns verse kismet I SDed both games).

<-----------

 

[Dooms]

You beat Ralph, Kero, S2, Spec, and Tech_Chase.

Ralph, several of us have beaten. Join the club lol.

Kero is great and all, but Ralph has shown that he can beat Kero, although neither beat one another constantly. Eric also has a 1-0 record on Kero.

S2 has losses from several players. Ralph, Kero, Ttar (which no one else has losses to), and that's pretty much it.

Spec beat S2 and SP... He really hasn't shown anything regarding results at all. His losses are Hoboz, Kero, you,

If you want a general idea, there are going to be 4 ranked lexington players. S2, SP, you, and Spec. That's it.

Tech_Chase is an outlier. I don't even think anyone else in KY has played him during the first season, and I personally have no idea how good he is, so I'm not stating thoughts in-thread.

Those three wins don't put you above (almost) anyone inside of the top 5 to say the least. This is what I meant. Lexington Ranbats can get you into the top 5, sure, but that's it. We've had several players prove that they can beat top lexington players, the last one not going outside of lexington at all so none of us could say anything (good or bad) about him, since his only ranked wins are SP and S2, players that several of our ranked KY players have defeated.

 

[Judo777]

You beat Ralph, Kero, S2, Spec, and Tech_Chase.

Ralph, several of us have beaten. Join the club lol.

Kero is great and all, but Ralph has shown that he can beat Kero, although neither beat one another constantly. Eric also has a 1-0 record on Kero.

S2 has losses from several players. Ralph, Kero, Ttar (which no one else has losses to), and that's pretty much it.

Spec beat S2 and SP... He really hasn't shown anything regarding results at all. His losses are Hoboz, Kero, you,

If you want a general idea, there are going to be 4 ranked lexington players. S2, SP, you, and Spec. That's it.

Tech_Chase is an outlier. I don't even think anyone else in KY has played him during the first season, and I personally have no idea how good he is, so I'm not stating thoughts in-thread.

Those three wins don't put you above (almost) anyone inside of the top 5 to say the least. This is what I meant. Lexington Ranbats can get you into the top 5, sure, but that's it. We've had several players prove that they can beat top lexington players, the last one not going outside of lexington at all so none of us could say anything (good or bad) about him, since his only ranked wins are SP and S2, players that several of our ranked KY players have defeated.

You just named 4 PRed people in our state (that I beat). If I have any idea on the list 3 of them being ranked above me. And what do you mean Tech Chase is an outlier???? Tech chase ......is a player...... like calling him an outlier makes it sound like I am required to play people that other people in the state have played and lost to. I think Lumi and Sorasin are outliers, they didn't get played this season except by S2 so lets not count them (not sure about that fact)........ no. S2 beat them, it counts. I beat Tech Chase, it counts.

So you never answered my question. What big wins does Ralph and S2 have over me. Rather what players have they beat at my skill level?

I don't follow why you don't count head to heads. They are far and away the most objective way to measure player skill, along with results (both of which you aren't really counting). Instead you are opting to pick the most subjective method I have seen. It's not about results or head to heads, instead its about who you beat, but only certain tournaments count, and we will automatically neglect certain losses.

If you want some subjective rationale (which isn't always bad), what you should also be considering is matchups. There is a reason Ttar beat S2 at that ranbat. Wario +3s DK. Not sure who smile played to beat Ralph, but I'd be willing to put a lot of confidence it was MK (who beats Snake probably +1.5-2).

 

[Dooms]

We count head to heads. Just not as much as a list of viable wins. This is how I was told the PR would work, and I never questioned it, since I personally think using head-to-head as the highest priority is dumb :v.

I don't know anything about Tech_Chase, therefore to me he is an outlier. The other panelists probably have debated your win of Tech_Chase and decided that you were still where you currently are for another reason or two. I was saying that he was an outlier to me and I would not give my opinion on beating Tech_Chase because I can't compare it to anyone else. No one lost to Tech_Chase from what I saw, so I can't say he beat any of our ranked players, and you're the only one that has beaten him. I've never seen him play. I have no thoughts to give about your win on Tech_Chase. It's that simple.

S2 has Sorasin and Lumi, both really good players. He also has a win on me, SMILE, BPOW, Future, and Mister Eric.

Kero has Me and SMILE. (He also has Ralph and S2)

Ralph has Sneaky, me, Sorasin, Lumi, Meekspeedy, Raziek, Carls, Eric, along with Kero and S2.

Let's be honest here. From my perspective, the only person you could possibly be over due to these wins is Kero. I could possibly see you over Kero. You have the head-to-head against him, but he has wins on myself and SMILE, both people that I would put over spec based on his results. Not sure if the head-to-head would put you over myself and SMILE.

Head to head does not put you over Ralph and S2 due to their amount of wins that are consistent and that could be easily argued to be even to you based on this season of the PR due to your lack of results :v.

Your placement doesn't show anything at all lol. SMILE got second when the only ranked player he played and beat in Kentucky was Ralph. :v. People have lucky brackets, people have unlucky brackets. It just isn't a definite form of skill. If we consider who they play, we're getting way more than we are through counting where they place. >_>. There is no reason to consider where they place as anything at all. It's just a number and a sum of money if you place high enough. You could say the people who you play against matter, but we're already considering who you play against in the first place, so it's pointless.

That's why people have secondaries. If you're too confident in yourself to have a secondary or to go to your secondary, then we should count your losses to bad matchups less? :v. The only time where I could see counting bad matchups is when people consistently lose to a specific character, regardless of which character they try to counterpick. There are no cases of that on this list.

Off topic, but Diddy v Snake, not MK v Snake.

Edit: Another thing: We're not robots. I'm pretty sure we all naturally considered matchups when making this list. It didn't change anything really, though.

 

[DtJ S2n]

gosh stop talking about me losing to people it makes me feel bad.

 

[Ori_bro]

lol at tech being a good win

 

[neji32]

You beat Ralph, Kero, S2, Spec, and Tech_Chase.

Ralph, several of us have beaten. Join the club lol.

Kero is great and all, but Ralph has shown that he can beat Kero, although neither beat one another constantly. Eric also has a 1-0 record on Kero.

S2 has losses from several players. Ralph, Kero, Ttar (which no one else has losses to), and that's pretty much it.

Spec beat S2 and SP... He really hasn't shown anything regarding results at all. His losses are Hoboz, Kero, you,

If you want a general idea, there are going to be 4 ranked lexington players. S2, SP, you, and Spec. That's it.

Tech_Chase is an outlier. I don't even think anyone else in KY has played him during the first season, and I personally have no idea how good he is, so I'm not stating thoughts in-thread.

Those three wins don't put you above (almost) anyone inside of the top 5 to say the least. This is what I meant. Lexington Ranbats can get you into the top 5, sure, but that's it. We've had several players prove that they can beat top lexington players, the last one not going outside of lexington at all so none of us could say anything (good or bad) about him, since his only ranked wins are SP and S2, players that several of our ranked KY players have defeated.

I have also beaten leagan, sneaky and kain. If that means anything...... and a money match with eric...but i dont know if money matches mean anything.

Also i have lost to hoboz in one tournament out of 3(in which i beat him) sheesh kirby has a good match up with pikachu and with the fact that we had to extend the tournament to judos house just to finish it, there are alot of variables in that match up. sheesh

 

[Judo777]

lol at tech being a good win

No I wasn't implying it was a good win. It s possibly my worst win. I was just saying it counted. I do however think tech chase is close to the same level a sorasin and lumi. I have played Lumi and Sora probably more than most people, Tech is pretty good.

Also you cant discredit SMILES win and then use him as a big win.

As you said I should have a better record than KERO considering I have all of his wins - you and SMILE (who you have discredited) but add himself, SPEC and others. And my worst wins are around the level of Lumi (who is a great player, and a good friend).

I feel like you are basically saying "You haven't beaten enough people, just the entire KY PR."

Btw I got wrecked by playing Ralph because I didn't get to play who ever would have been in his place that would have counted on your list.

 

[Dooms]

I have also beaten leagan, sneaky and kain. If that means anything...... and a money match with eric...but i dont know if money matches mean anything.

Also i have lost to hoboz in one tournament out of 3(in which i beat him) sheesh kirby has a good match up with pikachu and with the fact that we had to extend the tournament to judos house just to finish it, there are alot of variables in that match up. sheesh

Legan is in the same boat as Tech_Chase for me. I have no idea how good his Zero Suit is, since I've only played his Link back in 2010. Kain was listed as a loss. Did you really beat Kain in a set? No money match with Eric was listed, either.

I forgot Hoboz... Silly me >_<. I'll talk to people about that.

@Judo: I didn't say you SHOULD have a better record, I'm saying you COULD. Kero has wins on S2 and Ralph, myself, SMILE, Spec. He has every win that you have (disregarding himself) + two more. He has you beat after realizing that he's beat Spec as well, unless Tech overpowers myself and SMILE (he probably doesn't, no offense to him).

I recall Tech_Chase being good from what I've heard, but once again, I'm not one of the people to judge that, since I've never seen Tech play at all. I'll let someone else comment on that.

What in the hell are you saying regarding Ralph? Of course it counts. However, a lot of us have beaten Ralph. You don't get priority over other people that beat him too lol.

Edit: I'll edit that out. Kero pointed something out that I never actually realized lol.

 

[LOE1]

too many walls of posts to read all the drama :|

 

[BPx]

judo #1 you guys are all blathering idiots if you think otherwise

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I agree with bpow, KY is free

 

[JTsm]

Judo is the man. You guys are so jelly/free. Why even bother questioning his wins? You guys suck ****.

 

[Ori_bro]

almost better than writing my paper that's due tomorrow.

 

[DeLux]

Random question, but when the hell did Spec beat Kain and why wasn't that blown up everywhere?

Kain the "Big 'BAAAADDDDD' Wolf"


Oh wait, Spec plays pikachu, maybe that's why?

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I have a positive record vs zinoto, can I be rank 1 on KY PR?

I'm also even in sets with kain, and have no losses to any of the players that are in the running for your current PR.

 

[_Kain_]

Lol Spec has never beaten me he's smoking some crack right now

 

[Judo777]

Legan is in the same boat as Tech_Chase for me. I have no idea how good his Zero Suit is, since I've only played his Link back in 2010. Kain was listed as a loss. Did you really beat Kain in a set? No money match with Eric was listed, either.

I forgot Hoboz... Silly me >_<. I'll talk to people about that.

@Judo: I didn't say you SHOULD have a better record, I'm saying you COULD. Kero has wins on S2 and Ralph, myself, SMILE, Spec. He has every win that you have (disregarding himself) + two more. He has you beat after realizing that he's beat Spec as well, unless Tech overpowers myself and SMILE (he probably doesn't, no offense to him).

I recall Tech_Chase being good from what I've heard, but once again, I'm not one of the people to judge that, since I've never seen Tech play at all. I'll let someone else comment on that.

What in the hell are you saying regarding Ralph? Of course it counts. However, a lot of us have beaten Ralph. You don't get priority over other people that beat him too lol.

Edit: I'll edit that out. Kero pointed something out that I never actually realized lol.

Kero has every win I have, except the head to head (and Tech but nevermind that), and Kero has losses which I don't have (one was Ralph right? another being Flygon). If you'e name is not Spec, Zinoto, or Kismet you have not taken a game off me this season.

To translate the Ralph comment. The game I played Ralph I would have played someone else if I hadn't played Ralph. This was likely to be the best game of the tourney for me (that I was likely to win) but because I had to play Ralph (which you guys are making not count for much) I didn't get to play someone else (maybe Sneaky).

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I'm sorry but what I'm not understanding here is, does anyone in KY actually think they're better than judo? Like lets be real if you're losing to him (a sheik main) and you don't main one of the 5 garbage low tiers sheik actually beats, odds are its because hes better than you.

Like honestly, what's the point in being number 1 on a PR if you yourself know that you aren't the best player in the state? Maybe I take more pride than some of you in being able to play well, but a PR spot isn't gonna get you jack, its really just a nice pat on the back for the hard work you've put in, and should be something you earn, not your way into.

 

[Dooms]

Flygon? o_O.

No loss against Flygon was recorded this season. He is tied with Ralph, yes. He still has a win, though.

If we based it off of what we assume to be true about player's skill, it wouldn't be a power ranking. It'd be a "Our opinions of what a perfect season power ranking would be". The fact of the matter is that your tournament results haven't proven your true skill yet. I know that's unfortunate, considering that I'm in a similar boat (winner bracket had almost all crap people except Kassandra (who always got knocked out early because she had to fight me), then either losing in winners bracket -> losers bracket or getting to grand finals and then playing a person that I've already beaten in winners again).

@Ralph Comment: Couldn't we all say that about all of our matches? If I would have played Eric instead of Kassandra at one of the three S2D's, I possibly could have had way better results (since he had bad performances in state in general). If Kero played Ralph when he was on point instead of playing Smile two times in a row, he would have had more data behind him, and he'd certainly be ahead of you. Unless you mean it was a TO error and you weren't supposed to play each other but the TO was dumb, then I don't know what you're talking about lol.

Your Ralph win does count a lot. After Kero pointed out a big fact, it means a lot lol. We're reconsidering everything obviously, but saying it doesn't count a lot is stupid.

Sneaky wouldn't count more than Ralph. No offense to Sneaky :v.

Edit: The PR is based on the tournaments in season and who has and hasn't shown their skill. If it was based on what we assume, we could make a list and just adjust it whenever someone starts putting in real work or when someone becomes inactive, because it wouldn't change much otherwise. There would be no need for seasons. It'd be 100% based on assumptions after Judo, too. It'd probably spawn pride wars and city debates. Outside of that, though, I like the idea honestly because it'd be pretty cool in general, but it's not a PR.

A PR is to encourage tournament participation, and it's a fun thing in general. It gives people a idea of who showed off the most talent in the season. Judo hasn't shown the most talent in the season due to his lack of appearances. That's as straight forward I can be lol.

Edit edit: Thank you for pointing out my flaws, Judo. Sorry for being stubborn (You know I am at this point xP), and we are working on getting a better list made. Thanks to Kero as well for pointing out something obvious that I never realized >_<.

 

[Judo777]

Flygon? o_O.

No loss against Flygon was recorded this season. He is tied with Ralph, yes. He still has a win, though.

If we based it off of what we assume to be true about player's skill, it wouldn't be a power ranking. It'd be a "Our opinions of what a perfect season power ranking would be". The fact of the matter is that your tournament results haven't proven your true skill yet. I know that's unfortunate, considering that I'm in a similar boat (winner bracket had almost all crap people except Kassandra (who always got knocked out early because she had to fight me), then either losing in winners bracket -> losers bracket or getting to grand finals and then playing a person that I've already beaten in winners again).

@Ralph Comment: Couldn't we all say that about all of our matches? If I would have played Eric instead of Kassandra at one of the three S2D's, I possibly could have had way better results (since he had bad performances in state in general). If Kero played Ralph when he was on point instead of playing Smile two times in a row, he would have had more data behind him, and he'd certainly be ahead of you. Unless you mean it was a TO error and you weren't supposed to play each other but the TO was dumb, then I don't know what you're talking about lol.

Your Ralph win does count a lot. After Kero pointed out a big fact, it means a lot lol. We're reconsidering everything obviously, but saying it doesn't count a lot is stupid.

Sneaky wouldn't count more than Ralph. No offense to Sneaky :v.

Edit: The PR is based on the tournaments in season and who has and hasn't shown their skill. If it was based on what we assume, we could make a list and just adjust it whenever someone starts putting in real work or when someone becomes inactive, because it wouldn't change much otherwise. There would be no need for seasons. It'd be 100% based on assumptions after Judo, too. It'd probably spawn pride wars and city debates. Outside of that, though, I like the idea honestly because it'd be pretty cool in general, but it's not a PR.

A PR is to encourage tournament participation, and it's a fun thing in general. It gives people a idea of who showed off the most talent in the season. Judo hasn't shown the most talent in the season due to his lack of appearances. That's as straight forward I can be lol.

Edit edit: Thank you for pointing out my flaws, Judo. Sorry for being stubborn (You know I am at this point xP), and we are working on getting a better list made. Thanks to Kero as well for pointing out something obvious that I never realized >_<.

For clarity on a few things. I think Spec beat Kain in pools? I think that's what he meant.

I was informed that at the last ranbat or maybe 2 ranbats ago, Kero lost to the local Luigi player Flygon. However I think he came back through losers to win.

And as far as straight results are concerned I have that on lock down. Just depends on how you view displayed skill. From my perspective I played the 2 tournies I won to the almost highest possible display of skill in a tournament setting (2 tournament wins and 1 game dropped, had I not lost that game it would have been the highest possible). And obviously these aren't disproportionate to my standard placings and performance. I guess it just depends how you look at it.

 

[DtJ S2n]

tutu, SP wants to challenge you to a $50 mm.

I really wish I had something to contribute to these PR arguments

 

[MegaRobMan]

No one beats Kain unless they cheat.

Be it play as sheik or have someone unplug his controller, it's been proven.

I don't get why someone who plays as a cheating character would be proud of beating Wolf anyway, that's not even an impressive win in my book.

That being said, when I knew I was going to KY, the first thing I said was "I hope to god Judo isn't there." Then I lost to two players from OH. Still not afraid of anyone other than Judo and maybe megarobman Jr. when he eats his cheeseburgers.

 

[Dooms]

The last ranbat didn't count towards the season we're currently re-creating a list for, and there is no bracket for Ranbats 3, so I wouldn't know if Kero lost to Flygon lol.

Spec was listed as losing to Kain in that pool.

Comment on everything else after school lol.

 

[Mister Eric]

Lol Spec has never beaten me he's smoking some crack right now

I want what he's on.

 

[JTsm]

No one beats Kain unless they cheat.

Man, Salem must have used them AR cheat codes man.

LOL @ the MM.

 

[MegaRobMan]

If you think Salem's cheating was bad, you should have seen how badly Dakpo cheated vs him at Get Hype! 2.

 

[JTsm]

Some things need cracking down.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

tutu, SP wants to challenge you to a $50 mm.

I really wish I had something to contribute to these PR arguments

I kind of have this thing where I don't do money matches with large sums of money on the line in -3 MU's. I'd only do 50 if like... it was character locked Sheik vs Falco MM(According to outrage results he uses him, idk how srsly tho). Otherwise the most I'd bet vs mk/ics/marth/snake/olimar would be like 10. When's the next time you'll be in MI?

 

[DtJ Composer]

I was assured that the Lex ranbats would count before I entered them. I wouldn't have wasted my money, if they weren't gonna count.

Gross.


Disgusting. Awful.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I kind of have this thing where I don't do money matches with large sums of money on the line in -3 MU's. I'd only do 50 if like... it was character locked Sheik vs Falco MM(According to outrage results he uses him, idk how srsly tho). Otherwise the most I'd bet vs mk/ics/marth/snake/olimar would be like 10. When's the next time you'll be in MI?

I underestimated your intelligence and I applaud you for your decision making here. Honestly expected you to be up for that. I'm just the messenger tho. SP's been having trouble getting on SWF. Don't know when we'll be in MI.

SP uses both of them. Every other tourney he decided that he's better with the other character and starts using that one.

 

[Judo777]

Gross.


Disgusting. Awful.

Don't misunderstand. I enjoy going to all the tournaments I attend. However the last ranbat in particular was extremely inconvenient for me, and it costed money. I mostly only went to it because Spec was bugging me, and also I needed a third tourney for the season.

 

[KassandraNova]

Lol Spec has never beaten me he's smoking some crack right now

I died reading this. LMAO