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The Official Clash of the Titans 4 Results Thread

OverLade

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
Sadaharu Inui said:
Again, please answer my question.

If two players are equal in singles, but one is much better at doubles, why can't we say the better doubles player is the better overall player?

Neither you or RedHalberd addressed this question. You both just dodged it with garbage.
Click to expand...
That had nothing to do with my arguement.

MY ARGUEMENT you didn't even address.

I said that M2K and Bum both did stellar in singles yet didn't do stellar in teams. Is this not proof that Teams doesn't equal singles? You said that winning in teams proves how good you are. If you can beat good teams it DOES prove you're GOOD, but it isn't a direct correlation of skill.

Seems to me like you ignore good arguements conveniently and try to misinterpret less good ones.

Suspect said:
If the tourny you just held was yesterday then it was the same has Hobo 14 and that chicago one (whatever that one anther was at)

both on live streams


edit:

i wasn't arguing for either of them it was for the fact of how to prove one's skill
Click to expand...
Dayum, GET HIM. :p

-I often have differing opinions from the majority. For instance, I'm a staunch conservative surrounded by mostly liberal people in this community. I also think Snake is the best character and support it with tons of facts and results, but everyone seems to think Meta Knight is broken.
Click to expand...
MK is easier use/to be consistent with. So regardless he'll always win more tourneys.
 
momochuu

momochuu

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May 8, 2008
Messages
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Momochuu
3DS FC
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Can't believe this thread is still getting replies. @_@
 
ANTi_

ANTi_

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
7,561
Seriously WDF is up how is Kawaii Bunny And PhantomX mods my fellow wifi players grow up so fast *tear*
 
Inui

Inui

Banned via Warnings
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Oct 30, 2005
Messages
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Location
Ocean Grove, New Jersey
RedHalberd said:
I said that M2K and Bum both did stellar in singles yet didn't do stellar in teams. Is this not proof that Teams doesn't equal singles? You said that winning in teams proves how good you are. If you can beat good teams it DOES prove you're GOOD, but it isn't a direct correlation of skill.

Seems to me like you ignore good arguements conveniently and try to misinterpret less good ones.
Click to expand...
Who cares about this argument? Presenting some other question in order to dodge mine doesn't answer mine. You didn't address mine at all.

Mew2King and Bum did awful together. When I teamed with Bum, we beat the team that took out the Mew2King and Bum team...twice. I went all Snake, and Snake does much better against the ZSS + Game and Watch nonsense than MK does. I was also more prepared for it and knew about the bucket cheapness while Mew2King didn't. Bum was playing better than he did the day he was with Mew2King. THAT'S why Bum and I won. It wasn't a "skill" thing at all. Of course, you didn't know that, so I'll forgive the ignorance. Your example is irrelevant now that you have this information.

If two players are equal in singles, but one is much better at doubles, why can't we say the better doubles player is the better overall player?

How can one win a lot in doubles and show good decision making and teamwork ability and not be considered a highly skilled player? Let's take a player like Hova, for instance. Hova is insanely good in doubles and places well. He gets bored in singles and messes around because singles sucks, so singles doesn't really reflect his actual skill, and sometimes he doesn't even enter singles. You can't just ignore things like this when considering someone's skill. I'm in a similar situation as Hova's.

MK is easier use/to be consistent with. So regardless he'll always win more tourneys.
Click to expand...
Yup. Marth is more consistent and easier to use than Fox, but Fox is considered better despite Marth winning most of the big tournaments and being the main of three of the five best players in Melee history.

Snake's better than MK. :)

DotHack said:
....You guys should've just gone to any Fire Emblem based site and checked his debates, then promptly given up. >_> He doesn't argue that well if he doesn't have a good reason to back it up.
Click to expand...
http://s11.zetaboards.com/Fire_Emblem_Fusion/topic/390764/1/
 
momochuu

momochuu

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thumbswayup said:
Is it just me, or is everyone's post count going down?
Click to expand...
It's because tourney social rooms have a no post count rule set. The posts that were in moved threads made up a lot of peoples' post counts.
 
PhantomX

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
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Messages
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They've been moving certain regional boards into their respective "social rooms," where posts no longer count.

OMG, Kawaii and I are so on point <: P
 
Inui

Inui

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Ocean Grove, New Jersey
ChiboSempai said:
not significantly at all...
Click to expand...
NJ Blue Battle Circuit Event #1, October 11th
Singles:
1: Atomsk (Dedede/Meta Knight/Lucario)
2: Inui (Meta Knight/Snake)
3: DaPuffster (Diddy Kong/Jigglypuff)
4: Pierce7d (Marth)
5: bschung (Dedede)
5: Blue (Sonic)
7: Vajaja (Game and Watch)
7: Blackwaltz (Olimar)
9: Orion
9: Rouge Pit
9: Wyatt
9: Vex Kasrani
13: ChiboSempai
13: Rob
13: Pride
13: Chill
17: RJ
17: Doom
17: Dusk
17: Mr. Clutch
17: Kai
17: JB Andrew
17: Ulitma Scout
17: Shippo
25: Cyanide
25: GdDmt

S.W.R. Event V: Inui and the B Button, Janaury 3rd, NJ
Singles:
1: teh_spamerer (Meta Knight)
2: Bum (Donkey Kong)
3: Atomsk (Dedede/Olimar)
4: Snakeee (Zero Suit Samus)
5: Inui (Meta Knight/Snake)
5: ADHD (Diddy Kong)
7: NinjaLink (Diddy Kong/R.O.B.)
7: Black Waltz (Olimar)
9: D1 (Falco)
9: dmbrandon (Meta Knight)
9: Ksizzle (Meta Knight/Dedede/Snake)
9: Eazy (Marth/Meta Knight/Toon Link/Falco)
13: Vex Kasrani
13: RoguePit
13: Xzax
13: Cable
17: Orion
17: Kid
17: Izumi
17: ChiboSempai
17: Keitaro
17: Xionix
17: Shadow
17: Anti
25: Litze
25: Rush
25: Dapuffster
25: umbra
25: Dire
25: Basic Sausage
25: Mr.Clutch
25: Alzurel
33: Monk
33: HEERO
33: j$$
33: Paper Towels
33: MrDC
33: Kai
33: wes
33: Van Helsing
33: Pride
33: Peirce
33: J.G Wentworth
33: Scarecrow
33: Gunblade
33: Bnzaaa
33: iKon
33: Linguine
49: Blue
49: Singles
49: Casshus
49: Cyan
49: A@
49: Ninja Edd
49: Cross
49: Qblast
49: Danma
49: VajaJ
49: Bleachigo
49: Sammy
49: Crismas
49: GdDmt
49: Sal
49: Doom
65: Revival
65: Ritch
65: Ref
65: Mood4Food
97: nairo


G.I.M.P.E.D., February 21st, 2009
Brawl Singles:
1: Mew2King (Meta Knight)
2: ADHD (Diddy Kong)
3: Ksizzle4life (Meta Knight)
4: Bum (Donkey Kong)
5: Inui (Snake/Meta Knight)
5: Snakeee (Zero Suit Samus)
7: MalcolmM (Sonic)
7: Ninjalink (Diddy Kong/R.O.B.)
9: Vanz
9: Doom
9: Jman
9: Anti
13: d1
13: owl
13: PGN1337
13: Eli-mination
17: Mike G
17: Problem
17: Dark Pch
17: ChiboSempai
17: Chaos Marth
17: Izumi
17: Ron
17: Shadow
25: HippieDude92
25: Orion
25: Skip
25: Shadowlink84
25: Helper
25: DoomMachine15
25: Pc Chris
25: Hax
33: Soul Ark
33: GuruKid
33: Diakhu
33: Glick
33: Ch33s3
33: Godot
33: Arrancar18
33: Kevin
33: Span
33: Sintros
33: Rouge Pit
33: DaiAndOh
33: KirinBlaze
33: OlimarMan
33: Jtails
33: Tick
49: Nolan
49: Q-Blast
49: KS136
49: ProJoe
49: brims
49: Deoxys
49: BOSS
49: DMT
49: Bshaw
49: Mr.Peach32
49: CiTH
49: CBC91
49: DeKillSage
49: whitman
49: Dj Nintendo
49: SkyAce89
65: Pushniment Divine
65: Nightmare
65: BluesEXE
65: Remix
65: HoMaLon
65: nuke
65: Zach
65: Shinagami
65: zeller
65: BigM
65: Squirrely
65: VERIL
65: J.G WentWorth
65: CJT
65: Vanek P.I.
65: Omang
65: SdTaco
65: -007-
65: Wgege
65: HoodSquirel
65: Ref
65: PGN'f Friend
65: ShippoFire
65: Bil
65: Teep
97: boxob
97: Jash
97: SpoonBob



Shall I go on?
 
OverLade

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
Sadaharu Inui said:
Who cares about this argument? Presenting some other question in order to dodge mine doesn't answer mine. You didn't address mine at all.

Mew2King and Bum did awful together. When I teamed with Bum, we beat the team that took out the Mew2King and Bum team...twice. I went all Snake, and Snake does much better against the ZSS + Game and Watch nonsense than MK does. I was also more prepared for it and knew about the bucket cheapness while Mew2King didn't. Bum was playing better than he did the day he was with Mew2King. THAT'S why Bum and I won. It wasn't a "skill" thing at all. Of course, you didn't know that, so I'll forgive the ignorance. Your example is irrelevant now that you have this information.

Yup. Marth is more consistent and easier to use than Fox, but Fox is considered better despite Marth winning most of the big tournaments and being the main of three of the five best players in Melee history.

Snake's better than MK. :)

http://s11.zetaboards.com/Fire_Emblem_Fusion/topic/390764/1/
Click to expand...
.....by your logic then, you should outplace M2K in singles.

The team that beat M2K but lost to you would say "Inui was much harder to fight in doubles than M2K", which is what you're using as the basis for teams proving about base skill. Saying Spam is harder to fight in dubs than dojo doesn't matter if the players are close in overall skill because different playstyles do better in doubles/singles.

My point has only been from the beggining that Doubles =/= singles skill. You've been justifying that you're a top player "mostly" off of your doubles record. You do perform well in singles, so I'm not saying you're not a good player, but I'm saying using a doubles record doesn't make how your "skill" is interpretted anymore impressive.

Anyway there's no point in arguing this because you're confusing my arguement with Suspect's apparently.

Doubles performance DOESNT NECESSARILY mean performance in singles, therefore you can't use it to justify your individual skill, and who you're better than.

That is all.
 
Xzax Kasrani

Xzax Kasrani

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
4,575
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Inui its on im as good as you or maybe even better :p

Clash of the Titans 4 Febuary 9, 2009

1: Mew2King ($1750)
2: Ally ($875)
3: Spammer ($420)
4: Dojo ($175)
5: NinjaLink ($85)
5: Lee ($85)
7: ChuDat ($55)
7: Judge ($55)
9: Infinity
9: VexKasrani
9: Ksizzle
9: Lain
13: NEO
13: OmegaBlackMage
13: Jash
13: Anther
17: HRNut
17: Dapuffster
17: Azen
17: Snakeee
17: Reflex
17: Anti
17: Kismet
17: AndyG
25: Santi
25: Atomsk
25: Rogue Pit
25: Boss
25: Seibrik
25: Greg
25: Lukky
25: Shadow
33: TUSM
33: Candy
33: Turbogilman
33: Xzax
33: D1
33: Holy Nightmare
33: Fatal
33: Basic Sausage
33: Inui
33: Kornn
33: Meep
33: MalcomM
33: Eli
33: Ambrose
33: Percon
33: Dire
49: Deez
49: HAT
49: Gonzo
49: Nuro
49: PenUmbra
49: Blackanese
49: BigLou
49: GIMR
49: King Ace
49: Orion
49: dmbrandon
49: Le Thein
49: AlphaZealot
49: Sethlon
49: Dazwa
49: Pyronic~Star
65: Pride
65: Chesterr01
65: ChiboSempai
65: Yes
65: ESOJ
65: Keitaro
65: Rush
65: Kai
65: Wes
65: Will
65: JCaesar
65: Plan Z
65: K9
65: C4
65: Quivo
65: Umbra
65: Hylian
65: Slikvik
65: Steel2nd
65: Pierce7d
65: Cable
65: JJWolf
65: Blackwaltz
65: Tristan Win
65: Polmex
65: SSR
65: UltimoDragon
65: Truth
65: thumbswayup
65: Rookie
65: GDX
65: ZMT

XII.E.S.T.I.C.L.E. (ECRC Event #2) August 09, 2008

1: Azen
2: ChuDat
3: NinjaLink
4: Mew2King
5: Plank
5: Omni
7: Omegablackmage
7: Forte
9: Atomsk
9: Boss
9: Chillin
9: Neo
13: Velocity
13: Pyronicstar
13: Kaiser
13: Starzonedge
17: Chinesah
17: Darc
17: Hayato
17: Nintendude
17: Eve
17: Snakee
17: jman
17: Shadow
25: Sol
25: Rhyme
25: Keitaro
25: dr1
25: Nacker
25: Xzax
25: PRiDE
25: Meep
33: siyko
33: asl?
33: Ghettofabulous
33: Nuro
33: Fatal
33: Solidjake
33: Phish-it
33: Inui
33: Chozen One
33: Blackwaltz
33: ChiboSempai
33: Eazy
33: Vigiliante
33: noraa
33: fayte
33: Pat/Pro
49: Dazwa
49: Pat
49: Emmy
49: Pmac
49: VexKasrani
49: ROT8
49: Cobra
49: Kevin
49: memphischains
49: Captain
49: nana
49: Lenny
49: icantwin?!
49: Doom
49: Xzion
49: Ref
65: MJS
65: Izumi
65: Matthew
65: Voidious
65: ssr
65: Yukio
65: The Solution
65: Ace
65: STi
65: nOOb
65: Johnnykevlar
65: =
65: Websterclock
65: Uuby
65: gruuu
65: arc

:psycho::chuckle: lol jkjkjkjkjk
 
Inui

Inui

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Messages
22,230
Location
Ocean Grove, New Jersey
RedHalberd said:
.....by your logic then, you should outplace M2K in singles.
Click to expand...
oh

my

god

NO.

The team that beat M2K but lost to you would say "Inui was much harder to fight in doubles than M2K", which is what you're using as the basis for teams proving about base skill. Saying Spam is harder to fight in dubs than dojo doesn't matter if the players are close in overall skill because different playstyles do better in doubles/singles.
Click to expand...
Mew2King played aggressive against a ZSS/Game and Watch team and didn't know about the bucket gayness. I played a very campy Snake against that team and Bum was prepared for the cheapness this time and not playing badly. IT WASN'T A MATTER OF SKILL. I explained this already. Skill wasn't why Bum and I beat that team twice while Mew2King and Bum failed. It was a situational thing caused by knowledge and my character.

My point has only been from the beggining that Doubles =/= singles skill. You've been justifying that you're a top player "mostly" off of your doubles record. You do perform well in singles, so I'm not saying you're not a good player, but I'm saying using a doubles record doesn't make how your "skill" is interpretted anymore impressive.
Click to expand...
So...

It's equally impressive for two players to consistently get top three at a tournament even if one of them gets top three in doubles all the time while the other does not? They are even in skill? No, they are obviously not even in overall skill. One is obviously better at teamwork and decision making in doubles, which is part of the tournament scene.

Doubles performance DOESNT NECESSARILY mean performance in singles, therefore you can't use it to justify your individual skill, and who you're better than.

That is all.
Click to expand...
Player X in State Z consistently gets top three. Player Y in State Z consistently gets top three. They beat each other an even amount of times and place exactly the same on average.

Neither of them teams with a broken partner. In fact, let's say both of their partners are even in skill.

Player X takes 1st in teams in State Z all the time. Player Y gets no better than 3rd.

Which player should be ranked higher on State Z's rankings?

The answer is glaringly obvious, and I have no idea why people would be disagreeing with me and saying that teams isn't a huge part of someone's skill.
 
Max Ketchum

Max Ketchum

Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
New Jersey
My opinion: It's definitely a contributing factor, but it's obviously not the main thing to look at when considering someone's spot on a rankings list. Inui isn't trying to tell you that teams means everything. He's trying to point out that it's something that counts and should not be overlooked, and is a good "tiebreaker".
 
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