The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ZSS goes even with MK, and debatably Snake (Dazwa is like 8 and 3 with Fatal and almost never loses to any Snake player, I think it's at least even). Falco is pretty bad, but Dazwa told me last night he thinks it's a lot better than Smashboards thinks it is, and although Nick did lose really bad to DEHF, he had no real Falco experience.. ZSS has been established as even with Wario, and beats him, IMO. Diddy is not bad, and is somewhere between even and 6/4 Diddy depending on the stage. Nick went to last hit with ADHD at MLG and doesn't even have Diddy experience, lol.

Her bad match-ups other than Falco are all low or mid tiers that aren't really viable: Squirtle (4/6), Sheik (4/6 or 35/65, even despite the 0-death), and IMO Peach (4/6). ZSS is like, even with almost everyone, slightly beats some, slightly loses to some. She doesn't really own anyone but ROB, Dedede, Bowser, and Ike, Kirby, GaW. (Ike is like 90:10 ZSS, once he's offstage she can side-b his recovery over and over until he dies.)

Wario doesn't get beaten, it's even.
Sheik is like 55:45 max
Squirtle has pokemon handicap, who cares about the SQUIRTLE mu if there are 2 other mus that we ****, beside that, if we get 1 paralyzer/dsmash/grab on squirtle his stock is gone.
Peach is as even as MU's get.
Don't know anyone who she loses slightly to, mainly even or slight advantage.
GaW is even.

Just some corrections yo

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

No way GaW is even. One of ZSS' easiest match-ups.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Which nonscrub GaW have you played? In US that would be limited to UTDzac and Vinnie.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

My regular training partner was actually a good (not like, amazing or anything) GaW player, I know the match-up well enough. But honestly, I've been trolling this thread with ZSS stuff for a while, I'm going to let it die.

But.... You can punish anything GaW does with jab. ANYTHING.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

except spaced or crossed up aerials x.x

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Pivot jab.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

does not compute with frame data

 

[Meru.]

I'm telling you, GW is underrated...

And Peach vs ZSS is dead even.

Spoiler

And Peach is not 'not really viable'

 

[adumbrodeus]

does not compute with frame data

Which aerial/aerials doesn't/don't compute?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Pretty much everything if you consider that it's shield drop (6) pivot (2) and jab (1).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

No way GaW is even. One of ZSS' easiest match-ups.

How is the G&W MU even it seems as though you account for all of ZSS strengths and what she can do against a character and never account for what a character can do to her. So instead of blank statements try explaining what makes the GW match up even.

 

[Meru.]

How is the G&W MU even it seems as though you account for all of ZSS strengths and what she can do against a character and never account for what a character can do to her. So instead of blank statements try explaining what makes the GW match up even.

But... He is saying the match-up is not even... @_@

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

But... He is saying the match-up is not even... @_@

Even worse at least IMO G&W is a pretty obnoxious character.

 

[Shaya]

Oh yeah, marth destroys ZSS, Rise.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Rise is sure putting up a fight around here with his character just like I would. But needs to step it up some more with his info. Come on Rise. Step it up! Also, Peach vs ZSS is even. Peach does not beat her as you say. And she is varible.

 

[DMG]

Im of the firm opinion that Wario beats ZSS. I find that matchup to be frustrating from her perspective. Killing Wario, let alone trying to hit him normally, is a pain in the butt. That is one of the hardest aspects of the matchup for her IMO.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Oh yeah, marth destroys ZSS, Rise.

6/4, yeah. I don't agree with "destroyed." Snakeee beat haze at MLG

 

[shlike]

Im of the firm opinion that Wario beats ZSS. I find that matchup to be frustrating from her perspective. Killing Wario, let alone trying to hit him normally, is a pain in the butt. That is one of the hardest aspects of the matchup for her IMO.

we should mm next time i travel

i don't think i've ever played your wario ever

 

[Shaya]

I say destroyed and ***** for every positive match up though .

MARTH ***** SNAKE (Shayas main catch phrase since mid 09)
[reality is its like 55:45 at the moment]

And snakeees too pro ****it

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think it's hard to hit Wario as ZSS at all. I also think she infinites him with a grab release, lol. Slow or not, it is theoretically a death from one grab.

Also, Snakeee's brother Shadow (maybe you've heard of him ) seconds Wario and they play a lot, I've never heard him say anything but it being even or slightly in ZSS' favor.

Her match-ups that matter are something like:

MK: 5/5
Snake: 4/6 or 5/5
Diddy: 5/5 (people will probably say "no it's 4.5/5.5" or something but that's close enough to call even for any practical purpose)
Falco: 4/6 or 3/7
Wario: 5/5
Marth: 4/6
Dedede: 7/3
ICs: 6/4
Pikachu: 5/5
Olimar: I dunno, everyone argues over this a lot though
Lucario: 5/5
Pit: 5/5

Edit: Hey there Ulysses! :D We should play again soon. I need to practice. But yeah, I'm not sure about Peach v ZSS anymore. Dazwa played Peachkid at GROAT and told me that it was a pain in the *** for many of the same reasons I described, but most people swear it's even.... so I dunno anymore =/

 

[Dark.Pch]

Is that right? Well once I get better at this game again ab\nd back to my prime, I'll have to pay dazwa a visit and take him on.

 

[Ripple]

I don't think it's hard to hit Wario as ZSS at all. I also think she infinites him with a grab release, lol. Slow or not, it is theoretically a death from one grab.
=/

its not a death until wario is at 50%

 

[Kaffei]

Can someone tell me why ZSS vs MK is 5/5 (Just curious cus idk ANYTHING about her)

 

[Turbo Ether]

MK gives ZSS the ****.

Wolf ***** Marth, btw.

 

[Kaffei]

What the heck.......

 

[DMG]

Actually it can go a tad higher than that Ripple. 60ish I believe is pretty realistic for people at least.

The hard part is getting that grab.

Shadow doesn't main Wario.

SHLIKE we played, a long time ago at Whobo 1. I wanna say it was a friendly, cause I think I remember us having a pools match and we both agreed to go Falcon LOL or something like that. But yeah I remember getting in like 2 games I think, both fairly close.

Most ZSS players I have played though it was Wario's advantage. But I'll talk to Snakee/Nick and see if they are going to Apex and wanna play there.

 

[Nefarious B]

How high can people break out of DDD's pummel on the infinite? Because ZS's is like, twice as fast as DDD's pummel. Just saying

 

[Laem]

i'd say wario beats zss because generally speaking zss profits HELLA lot from aerial and landing vulnerability, which wario kind of lacks.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

PhantomX played Snakeee a while back too and they decided that it was even, mutually.

And while Shadow doesn't main Wario, his Wario is very very very good and he knows the ZSS match-up better than anyone.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Wario def goes even with Zero Suit, Tonie. Chair knows the MU making him play even with Ramin, and compensating for the skill gap. Ramin's ZSS profits from catching landings, that's just his playstyle with ZSS but it's just 1 side of the coin, or not even that much.

That said, Marth goes even with ZSS but Olimar def wins except on CPs so it's all about the first match which he'll probably win so I think it's like 60/40 or summit.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I updated my personal tier list... again. so here it is (waits for lectures on bottom tier placings) :D

Z'zgashi's Tier List

S
A
B
C
D
E :shiek:
F
G

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Eh, let me try a tier list myself:
S:
A:
B:
C: :shiek:/
D:
E:

Alotta B and C. I consider B viable, and C questionable but can perform well.
inb4uruneducated

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I updated my personal tier list... again. so here it is (waits for lectures on bottom tier placings) :D

Z'zgashi's Tier List

S
A
B
C
D
E :shiek:
F
G

You should put Link in his own H tier, for Hyrule Tier. It would be a perfect fit.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Eh, let me try a tier list myself:
S:
A:
B:
C: :shiek:/
E:
F:

Alotta B and C. I consider B viable, and C questionable but can perform well.
Inb4uruneducated

Zelda and shiek shouldn't be together... other that that, OMG THOSE TIERS ARE HUGE!!! But i like it :D

And link feels high to me, but i put him uber low lol

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Zelda and shiek shouldn't be together... other that that, OMG THOSE TIERS ARE HUGE!!! But i like it :D

And link feels high to me, but i put him uber low lol

Nah Zelda and Sheik are together for me. In theory, you can select one of the two and switch to the other to avoid a bad match-up without selecting another character.

 

[Ripple]

honestly, if anyone thinks that ganon isn't the worst character in the game they are seriously confused.

if anyone thinks ICs are worse than D3, you are crazy

 

[jivegamer]

Why do you guys think Ganon should move up?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Eh, let me try a tier list myself:
S:
A:
B:
C: :shiek:/
E:
F:

Alotta B and C. I consider B viable, and C questionable but can perform well.
Inb4uruneducated

Where did D tier go?

 

[Bartolon]

I would put link at least below lucas.. xD

And why is ganon higher then samus for example o.o

 

[Z'zgashi]

honestly, if anyone thinks that ganon isn't the worst character in the game they are seriously confused.

if anyone thinks ICs are worse than D3, you are crazy

I do mine on a point ranking system, my opinion would be different