The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Chuee]

No, I never said they go even without a LGL.
They're 2 other characters that get ****ed by planking.

 

[Z'zgashi]

And olimar, he gets ***** by it too

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Quoted for truth...for once.

Falco v. MK is even w/ a ledge grab rule. Those rules are at countless big tournies, and not just to benefit Falco, so there's no sense in counting the matchup w/o the LG rules.

However, official rules do not have a ledge grab rule. That is what the tier list is based off of, and thus what the MU ratios should also be based off of.

Suddenly, Falco ain't doing so good.

Might I also add: how many freaking characters are going to claim they are even with MK? It's getting really old. I've seen through out Brawl's history: Fox, Snake, Falco, Wario, ICs, ZSS, Bowser, Yoshi, Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong all brought up at one point or another as a possible character neutral with MK/having a slight advantage over MK. I'm sure I've missed one or two somewhere.

Nobody is even with MK. 45-55 does not equal even. Everybody has at least a minor disadvantage. Best you can be is "near even" or maybe "Even on one stage, but not on enough stages for the whole MU to be even". End of discussion unless some character gets a new AT that makes it legitimately even. Can we drop the fantasy already? /minor rant

 

[Chuee]

However, official rules do not have a ledge grab rule. That is what the tier list is based off of, and thus what the MU ratios should also be based off of.

Suddenly, Falco ain't doing so good.

Might I also add: how many freaking characters are going to claim they are even with MK? It's getting really old. I've seen through out Brawl's history: Fox, Snake, Falco, Wario, ICs, ZSS, Bowser, Yoshi, Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong all brought up at one point or another as a possible character neutral with MK/having a slight advantage over MK. I'm sure I've missed one or two somewhere.

Nobody is even with MK. 45-55 does not equal even. Everybody has at least a minor disadvantage. Best you can be is "near even" or maybe "Even on one stage, but not on enough stages for the whole MU to be even". End of discussion unless some character gets a new AT that makes it legitimately even. Can we drop the fantasy already? /minor rant

Typical pro-ban post.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Falco is still pretty even imo

 

[Mota]

Well he does have a point...

 

[Kaffei]

However, official rules do not have a ledge grab rule. That is what the tier list is based off of, and thus what the MU ratios should also be based off of.

Suddenly, Falco ain't doing so good.

Might I also add: how many freaking characters are going to claim they are even with MK? It's getting really old. I've seen through out Brawl's history: Fox, Snake, Falco, Wario, ICs, ZSS, Bowser, Yoshi, Diddy Kong and Donkey Kong all brought up at one point or another as a possible character neutral with MK/having a slight advantage over MK. I'm sure I've missed one or two somewhere.

Nobody is even with MK. 45-55 does not equal even. Everybody has at least a minor disadvantage. Best you can be is "near even" or maybe "Even on one stage, but not on enough stages for the whole MU to be even". End of discussion unless some character gets a new AT that makes it legitimately even. Can we drop the fantasy already? /minor rant

Who the heck EVER said Bowser vs MK is even? Wow o-O

 

[Z'zgashi]

MK v. Ganon is pretty even too.

 

[Kaffei]

MK v. Ganon is pretty even too.

wat u talk about gannonn ***** mk

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nah thats jiggs yur thinkin bout, ganon is only even, almost ganon's advantage tho, almost

 

[AvaricePanda]

Wario and Kirby are even with MK w/ LGL? I wasn't aware of the new "characters that fell out against MKs that learned the character more now have a really cool 'make a MU even' AT".

diddy kong diddy kong diddy kong diddy kong diddy kong

End of discussion unless some character gets a new AT that makes it legitimately even.

:D

 

[Javon89]

wat u talk about gannonn ***** mk

The bat can't stand Ganon's girth!

 

[adumbrodeus]

no

YOU DON'T

i mean.

He's a brawl backroom member.

Actually it's because people forget about a little thing called stagelists.


The only reason falco did ok was because of the stupidly pro-falco/diddy stagelist we had.


Now he has to deal with a starter that isn't ridiculously in his favor, suddenly he's just not as hot in that MU.


SL generally knows his ****

 

[phi1ny3]

No, I never said they go even without a LGL.
They're 2 other characters that get ****ed by planking.

Oh haha

technically tons of characters are screwed by the tactic. Putting yourself in a compromising position against a character that can always outplay you offstage where you need to be to add more options is baaaaad.

 

[Chuee]

Actually it's because people forget about a little thing called stagelists.


The only reason falco did ok was because of the stupidly pro-falco/diddy stagelist we had.


Now he has to deal with a starter that isn't ridiculously in his favor, suddenly he's just not as hot in that MU.


SL generally knows his ****

Are you referring to the MLG ruleset?

 

[ShadowLink84]

You obviously know nothing about the MU.

You're obviously delusional.
Its a BAD match up for Falco.

I thought we moved away from the whole "WOMG THIS CHARACTER GOES EVEN WITH MK" shenanigans?

Fact of the matter is, Falco eats it when he fights MK.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Maybe you guys should focus on characters that need more attention and development then wasting your time on high tier match ups that is seen and heard about all the time. Like some low tier characters.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Like yoshi :D

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Maybe you guys should focus on characters that need more attention and development then wasting your time on high tier match ups that is seen and heard about all the time. Like some low tier characters.

But we haven't exhausted all the options for the high tier characters, and Wario is super-cool.

 

[Dark.Pch]

But we haven't exhausted all the options for the high tier characters, and Wario is super-cool.

I think you exhausted enough to a point that the other characters below high tier look like they have never been researched at all.

And yes, Wario is cool.

 

[Ripple]

would a squirtle that never switched or got fatigued counter MK?

 

[Browny]

depends if the metaknight is allowed to use any sword attacks or not

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

****IT! Forgot about the sword. We were so close too....

 

[Meru.]

I like Samus. Let's discuss her.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Typical pro-ban post.

Typical "Oh snap, I can't counter that" post.

EDIT: Eh, Samus? Needs maor Zair.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

would a squirtle that never switched or got fatigued counter MK?

No, but Squirtle's F-Tilt would.

Realistically, though, the matchup might be 45-55. It's still in Meta Knight's favor, but you can do rather mean things to him with just a little positional advantage. Speed isn't such a pain, and D-Air does almost nothing unless you're being edgeguarded.

 

[Red Arremer]

I like Samus. Let's discuss her.

Samus would be around bottom if it wasn't for her ZAir.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Samus would be around bottom if it wasn't for her ZAir.

I wish her Down-B didn't suck in this game. If the bombs became immediately active, I think it would be an important part of her metagame.

 

[Red Arremer]

She probably would still be Low Tier.
I think that if she had hitstun on her moves, it would be a huge advancement on her. Just like Falcon.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I wish her Down-B didn't suck in this game. If the bombs became immediately active, I think it would be an important part of her metagame.

And I wish Ike's Quick Draw wasn't the only chargeable side B move to send you flying forwards a long distance, but put you into free fall afterwards. >_> Why couldn't it be like Luigi's or Pikachu's?

But I do agree about the bomb thing. Right now they are basically worthless.

 

[Kewkky]

Yes, her bombs and missiles were the things that told me "Wait, what the hell...? This isn't the game I was expecting!"... I was planning on maining Samus, since I main her in Melee I felt like transitioning to the newest game with the same character was gonna be a walk in the park, but noooooo, Sakurai had to DESTROY her! Why would he weaken her so much? WHY would the team do that to her bombs? She can barely kill right now!

God, why did he have to ruin such an awesome game... So much hype created and then dropped the bomb on us like that... He's my least favorite game designer.

/rant_about_how_he_loved_Samus_in_Melee_and_hates_her_in_Brawl

 

[Chuee]

Typical "Oh snap, I can't counter that" post.

EDIT: Eh, Samus? Needs maor Zair.

I could've easily countered it if I had wanted to.
EDIT:
lol @ SL thinking MK is a bad MU for Falco.
MU is only bad with planking.

 

[BSP]

She probably would still be Low Tier.
I think that if she had hitstun on her moves, it would be a huge advancement on her. Just like Falcon.

And, if they didn't make her nair weak and the hitbox microscopic.

Well, almost everything about Samus got nerfed.

 

[TLMSheikant]

And if they didnt make her fsmash suck so much...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Her Up-Tilt makes a cool noise now, though.

 

[Meru.]

Not to mention she isn't even an easy character...

But ehh... what keeps her out of bottom? inb4Zair

 

[Kewkky]

Not to mention she isn't even an easy character...

But ehh... what keeps her out of bottom? inb4Zair

That, and her weight and fall speed. At LEAST she can survive for a fair bit amount of time compared to the other bottom tiers... Due to her zair and bomb jumping, coupled with her slow fallspeed and decent weight, makes it very hard to gimp her (unless you have a cape and sword that can semi-spike).

 

[phi1ny3]

Her Up-Tilt makes a cool noise now, though.

Cool noises make everything better.

 

[BSP]

Cool noises make everything better.

Yes they do, and so do scarfs.

 

[Red Arremer]

That, and her weight and fall speed. At LEAST she can survive for a fair bit amount of time compared to the other bottom tiers... Due to her zair and bomb jumping, coupled with her slow fallspeed and decent weight, makes it very hard to gimp her (unless you have a cape and sword that can semi-spike).

Yea.

Samus' main redeeming factors are her ZAir and her really good recovery and offstage game. She's pretty hard to kill.