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Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
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Princeton, NJ
Jrad, be more careful with your SH Bairs. You kinda end up as dash dance bait for Cfalcon. You can also ftilt or uptilt after whiffed Bairs to catch Cfalcon on his follow ups. Speaking of which, you don't seem to dash dance much at all haha. Nice stuff, mostly need to be cleaner with movement and punishes. Also crouch cancel Grab vs Cfalcon Nair is op.

Phish-it, omg nice stuff at Zenith. You beat Icer... who knocked me out of tourney 3 times in the past month LOL. That set vs Zang was awesome, a few slip ups but you still looked pretty strong in those matches. **** FALCO.
 
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phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,097
Location
Mahopac, NY
Thanks dude! Didn't know you still actively went to tournaments. My set vs Icer was close: shoutouts to the battlefield stage spike.I feel like I played well mentally at Zenith but I still have/had a lot of executional inconsistency overall.
 

WINK ;)

Thankful for today
Joined
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Messages
309
Location
Lexington, KY
Something I have been curious about for a while...

Why does DK have a UNFAVORABLE match up against Mewtwo? My source may have been off but from what I read it is 60:40 in Mewtwo's favor which is not that big of a deal but it just shocked me.

Is it because of shadow ball and how you could maybe zone DK out that way or something else I am missing? I have just always been curious about that.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Never heard that one. I would think DK's bair shuts down most of mewtwo's options besides teleport
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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It's cause Mexican didn't know how to fight Taj. I want to say it's DK's favor but idk, I really need to fight a good Mew2 / idk how he works / I don't like underestimating low tiers vs other low tiers lol. I feel like he has good setups cause DK is so fat... but DK's Bair plane, Giant Punch, d/ftilt, and upthrow Uair should be more than enough....
 

JRad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
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I actually have a lot of experience in this matchup and play about 15 games with a Mewtwo main last week. He is probably one of the best Mewtwo's, his tag is Prof, and he has beaten Lambchops (multiple times) and other top South Florida players in tournament.

Anyway, my opinion after playing him is that the matchup is slightly in his favor but maybe even. The fact of the matter is it is really hard for either characters to approach. Mewtwo just never really approaches in any matchup in general but he does have the shadowball. Shadowball is a decent projectile but in most of the top tier matchups he is playing against characters that are fast enough to get through them and never really give him an opportunity to set up potential pressure situations using shadowball. Unfortunately, DK doesn't really have a great way through them so you have to jump over or use platforms. Shadowballs are good against DK but it isn't really what tips the matchup in M2's favor (although he can throw the charged shadowball at our terrible horizontal recovery and bop us).

M2 has really good juggle combos on DK and it is absolutely imperative that you DI everything away in order to get out of it. If you get caught in the air whether it be from an upthrow or utilt, he can juggle you with 1-2 upairs and then backair another 2-3 times across the stage. It is actually pretty easy to string backairs against Mewtwo and sweetspot up B on his shield is really good since its somewhat easy to shield poke his shield. As for cargo combos, you can always hit him with an aerial and you can do cargo uthrow to uair at high percents (all the way up to at least 110) for a kill so we have reliable kill power on him, but uair juggling him is not as easy because teleport instantly gets him out (I felt like I usually got 2 but rarely 3 uairs in a row). Another thing that mewtwos like to do is teleport from the ledge mixed in with stalls and a few other things. The best we can do to punish that is one of our less laggy aerials (so not fair unless you get the read) before he buffers roll. If you have the punch that is another story. Both characters have a lot of trouble ledge guarding each other as long as you know how to recover with up b. He will try to downsmash but you should be able to get through it with proper sweetspotting unless he stands very close to the ledge with really good timing. But dair will kill us because DK.

In summary, he is hard to approach and ledgeguard. His punish game on us is surprisingly good and his range on his tilts can compete with our normally good range advantage. That being said, we have reliable kill set ups on him and our backair can string together. Suprise fairs, mid % punches, and good dair setups can take stocks from him early where as he doesn't have much in the way of killing us before 100. With good reads, I would actually say its probably 50-50, we just can't play "safe" or he will just shadowball camp.
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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Cant you just bair through the shadow balls while staying ~teleport distance away? I feel like mewtwo has no option against this and you have no risk.
 

JRad

Smash Apprentice
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Cant you just bair through the shadow balls while staying ~teleport distance away? I feel like mewtwo has no option against this and you have no risk.
Yes you can bair through shadowballs and this is definitely a primary way of handling them. Not sure why you would need to stay a teleport distance away, its not PM where he is going to approach with TP. Back air is generally safe, but if you only back air too much then that makes you predictable (one of my biggest problems as DK) and its not like the opponent can't adjust to the bair spacing. Also if you bair at certain distance he can wavedash in -> tilt you so you have to compensate for his dash dance/movement when spacing bairs. Like any other matchup, you need mixups.
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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Idk thats how Taj approaches a lot of matchups; think of it like a roll, but much much better. Even though you can't aerial out of it, you have almost no lag when you land. So he guesses when you're going to do something with lag, then teleports to the other side of you and then does .... whatever mewtwo does? lol. But thats the only way I see him being 'unexpected' without challenging your bair.

Semi related side note, Zhu style shield turn arounds are amazing with DK in all matchups. Do a long dash forward then dash back and shield first frame, then immediately jump and bair. The shield stops your dash momentum by a large margin, which carries over into your jump. This is a shortcut to Hax$ style pivot jumps :)
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Damn close set carl! Thought u were gonna come back when you tried to move the chaingrab onto the platform, but he barely jumped out
 

NJzFinest

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Lol yeah, I totally messed up the timing on when to throw him up. Sign, woulda been a hype set to win. Oh well.

Never taking Falco to FD again, I need platforms for teh spam.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Ya I was questioning that decision too haha. Still, good job! Chain ace is no joke
 
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phish-it

Smash Champion
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Ah so close. You should try to be more aggressive in your edgeguards sometime. Chain Ace almost always up -d back to the stage. In tournament I tend to be too cautious too at times, but sometimes you've gotta just jump out and nair falco out of his recovery.
 

DKdekes

Smash Rookie
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Oct 22, 2012
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Hey guys can you help me out with DK ditto's? Just general rundown of approaching / percentages / combos / edgegaurds on a fellow donkey
 

NJzFinest

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Ah so close. You should try to be more aggressive in your edgeguards sometime. Chain Ace almost always up -d back to the stage. In tournament I tend to be too cautious too at times, but sometimes you've gotta just jump out and nair falco out of his recovery.
Ty, I'll definitely try that out. Usually I'm always scared of forward Bs... but I can now see DK having enough time to react to Falco's up B when expecting the forward B.
Hey guys can you help me out with DK ditto's? Just general rundown of approaching / percentages / combos / edgegaurds on a fellow donkey
CC grab is really good. Always charge punch. Edgeguard by wavedashing to the ledge if he's trying to hover close to it and autograb. Dair is decent. Invincible Up Bs from a ledge grab are solid.

Start at really low %
Cargo upthrow-> SH Uair FF autocancel -> FH Uair, Uair FF -> SH Uair FF autocancel-> FH Fair/Punch
If they Smash DI perfectly you're timing has to be on point.

At mid %
Cargo upthrow-> SH Uair FF autocancel -> FH Fair/Punch

At high %
Cargo jump upthrow -> double jump Fair/Punch or Uair if it will kill
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
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Semi related side note, Zhu style shield turn arounds are amazing with DK in all matchups. Do a long dash forward then dash back and shield first frame, then immediately jump and bair. The shield stops your dash momentum by a large margin, which carries over into your jump. This is a shortcut to Hax$ style pivot jumps :)
So if I understand correctly, it is a 1 frame window for this right?

I am without a cube at the moment to try this out at the moment, but this sounds really useful as a sort of pseudo-bair approach.

How difficult is it to perform consistently?
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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Its not a 1 frame window. You can shield at any time during your dash dance, and it basically stops you in place (you slide a little...). If you want to maximize your forward distance you would do a max distance dash forward, dash back as late as possible, shield immediately, jump immediately (don't wait for your shield to even show up) and bair immediately.
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
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oh I see, I misinterpreted it. I thought this was shielding during the frame where you are standing upright between dash directions, as in a pivot. This is shielding any time during innitial dash animation. Seems useful, though.

EDIT: Actually, I don't think there is even that 1 frame of standing upright when you change directions in run beyond your innitial dash animation, so I was really off.
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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Ya this is a shortcut to pivoting, as long as you plan to jump or grab. By shielding, you guarantee that you stop perfectly in place each time.
 

NJzFinest

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIY6BwTY1bY

Me vs Sheik. We both played sloppy but whatever. Copycat is scary because he practices vs a DK and knows how to smash DI Uairs. I was doing cargo downthrow at the ledge cause it forces sheik to Up B on stage. Back in like 2009 I would do it over and over consistently (wavelanding onto platforms if Sheik went up), but now I'm super rusty and ****ed it up. I used to call it a legit chaingrab lol. Like sure I just can Dair or Up Air but I should be able to always regrab and continue the punish. Game 2 I forgot that Sheik can just run up and grab me. Last stock of game three, my head was "I WILL NOT GET GRABBED". I really like my last stock game 3 lol.

I have a video vs The Moon's Fox and Teczero's Pika. I actually got a game off Moon but I played ****ty (missed almost every punish opportunity) and eventually got *****. Teczero destroyed me even harder. Don't like Pika :L
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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Tec0 played pika???

I had to watch your last stock to make sure you weren't being sarcastic; i don't know if i could've handled another heartbreaker lol
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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Strong Bad why you so strong? <3
Can you make PM DK have the same knock back on cargo upthrow as Melee? I miss being able to still cargo upthrow to Uair floaties over 100% D:


Hey guys check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiT5tiHpR_s
he's pretty decent LOL

edit:

I think I'm going to start using Fair more, it's like a worse Ganon Fair aka prolly not too horrible.
 
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JRad

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 10, 2014
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Gainesville, Florida
After watching M2K's DK and Armada's, I just find it so funny how they don't really know that much about our character. M2K used SO many Nairs it made me lul and they don't know when or how to use DK's upb
 
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NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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M2K's Final Destination combos are on point though. At least they were back in the day (haven't seen his DK recently outside of PM).
 

JRad

Smash Apprentice
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Please give me good Peach advice. It's my worst matchup as DK. Ill try to get somethings recorded. My biggest problems are dealing with turnip approaches and floating. I think I have a decent grasp on combo game, but when should I be going for dairs? How safe is approaching with Dtilt? I try just camping backairs and platforms. I think some of my problem is just ONLY back airing and fishing for grabs too much. I try to punish missed approaches with grabs and usually get hit
 
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Stevo

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I'm tinkering with putting my back (surprise surprise lol) towards peach and short hoping when peach moves and either catching the turnip in the air with Z and bairing if peach approaches. If peach neither throws the turnip or approaches you can just leave it as an empty hop. it is pretty easy to catch a turnip with your back to peach because DK's annoying hurtboxes (like the one on his tie) are not getting in the way.

I suggest a back facing retreating short hop.

I dunno, try it out.

EDIT: Just to clarify, this would be beaten by dash attack, but peach can't do that with a turnip in hand, so it actually works out. lol
 
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Lunch

Smash Rookie
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Oct 4, 2014
Messages
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Do you guys use the analog stick + A or the C stick for spamming bairs? I jump with Y and I find it pretty difficult to flick the c stick and get the attack out fast right after each jump I constantly end up doing forward smashes on the ground by accident
 

JRad

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Do you guys use the analog stick + A or the C stick for spamming bairs? I jump with Y and I find it pretty difficult to flick the c stick and get the attack out fast right after each jump I constantly end up doing forward smashes on the ground by accident
I use Y and C stick, maybe you just need to play/practice it more. I also dual main Marth and I can do double fair consistently after a lot of practice so I am used to it
 

Lunch

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I use Y and C stick, maybe you just need to play/practice it more. I also dual main Marth and I can do double fair consistently after a lot of practice so I am used to it
Yeah it's such an awkward input for me to quickly move back and forth from short hopping with Y and flicking the C stick right or left I'm almost considering jumping with X using the side of my index finger instead
 
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JRad

Smash Apprentice
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Do whatever feels comfortable for you. I am not sure how much smash you have played but Y and Cstick is very doable so it could be that you are still relatively new but you can use A for aerials, its not like a "noob" thing to do
 

CnB | Chandy

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 21, 2014
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Austin, Texas
I pooped myself after the tingle balloon combo. Great video! Would poop again!
Thanks man! Means a lot coming from you.

I don't get to travel or get on stream a lot so I'm going try to make one of these every month featuring different people from my region. Hopefully they'll start getting popular (poop-ular?) soon.
 
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