The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[Cliche-Guevara]

Out of curiosity, who did you play at Fall Fighter (Im assuming it was that one, but it could have been the bash).

And why dont you ever post in the Colo thread here in smashboards?

 

[Ryusuta]

Out of curiosity, who did you play at Fall Fighter (Im assuming it was that one, but it could have been the bash).

Hmm... I don't remember exactly. First guy was a Peach player (and the darn Luigi's Mansion CP got me...), the second guy used Snake. There might be a public bracket somewhere or other. Like I said, though, it had to have been my single WORST tournament outing of all-time, so I'm trying to forget that as quickly as possible. That's one of the reasons I don't want to play competitively right now. I'm something of a sore loser when I actually care about the matches I lose.

And why dont you ever post in the Colo thread here in smashboards?

You know, I've never really thought about it. I suppose I could post there sometime.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Thats where we hang out, you probably played Meno and either Ferdi / Khadir.

Come hang out sometime, would be nice to have a new face close to downtown.

 

[Ryusuta]

Cool, man. I'll drop you a PM or something later today, and I'll see about dropping in on you guys tomorrow. It sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[Chaco]

Foot beats sword. It out prioritizes it, I'm fairly positive it does. I know his Uair can also beat his dair if connected right. But mostly his dair beats us.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

well i dont care what anyone says but his projectiles are amazing. so what is arrows are slow he can get 2 out in one full hop then a bomberang to a bomb. these projectiles are not as eazy to dodge as everyone thinks. also da fact he can approch/flee with all of them and use zair makes it ahrded for us to fight him

i agree pivot grab works well

 

[Chaco]

Yeah. plus he can do the zair to bomb thing.

 

[Ryusuta]

Dude, you're forgetting Yoshi's back and neutral airs. They tear through Tink's arrows and boomerang with no trouble at all. Bombs are okay, but Egg Toss comes out quicker and Yoshi can ETS as well as aim them more easily.

Tink's Z air isn't nearly as intimidating as Link's, and we've already discussed how to fight his.

 

[Hylian]

Well I've seen the others, and I have discoverd, this fight is not worth fighting...

 

[Mmac]

Horray! Thanks Hylian

 

[Poltergust]

About time this thread got stickied.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

Dude, you're forgetting Yoshi's back and neutral airs. They tear through Tink's arrows and boomerang with no trouble at all. Bombs are okay, but Egg Toss comes out quicker and Yoshi can ETS as well as aim them more easily.

Tink's Z air isn't nearly as intimidating as Link's, and we've already discussed how to fight his.

i disagree cause one arrow pings out bair and u get hit with da second one if he does full hop double arrow. egg toss has slower start up lag then all tink's projectiles and tink cant aim... he doesnt need to he can make a wall of arrows a bmmerang and a bomb come out in a few seconds

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Tink doesn't need to Full hop to double arrow, if timed correctly you can SH and cancel the lag on the 2nd arrow just as you land on the ground, its like a slower version of Falcos Lasers to get around, which are hella annoying. You wind up trying to jump over them to get met with bombs / upairs.

I hate thiss matchup with a passion.

 

[SOVAman]

Almost every match-up in this thread is 4.5, 5.5 or 5.0 I think this makes it look like Yoshi only has like one or two bad match-ups and it makes everyone look neutral I think you need to change it to new system like simply write a few paragraphs on each match up and the say whether it is a disadvantage, advantage, big disadvantage, big advantage, slight disadvantage, slight advantage.

Because if you don't people come in to this thread look at a number and say "hey this match-up must be easy its only a 5.0" and they don't have a clue on how to fight against the match-up or anything at all only a number.

CONSIDER THIS MMAC!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

5.0 means even. It means both have a 50% chance to win i guess.

But yes, we need to focus more on what to do.

 

[Mmac]

Almost every match-up in this thread is 4.5, 5.5 or 5.0 I think this makes it look like Yoshi only has like one or two bad match-ups and it makes everyone look neutral I think you need to change it to new system like simply write a few paragraphs on each match up and the say whether it is a disadvantage, advantage, big disadvantage, big advantage, slight disadvantage, slight advantage.

Because if you don't people come in to this thread look at a number and say "hey this match-up must be easy its only a 5.0" and they don't have a clue on how to fight against the match-up or anything at all only a number.

CONSIDER THIS MMAC!!!!!!!!!

Basically, you want me to change the format so that it makes Yoshi appear artificially worse? I don't know how people can get confused with the current system, especially when this is how EVERYONE does it. All it is it's just simplified it.


About Summaries, I want other people to do them (Infact I have been saying that since a month ago). I always get yelled at because I am doing it "wrong". Plus there are people here who know the matchup better than I do. I am just not a Multi-Paragraph guy. Takes me forever to write them

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

So which summary do you want? Tink? Ill write one up based the discussion weve been having around here.


Toon Link: With good projectile spam and diskopinted hitboxes on every one opf phis moves he can make things a pain for yoshi. Dont try to out spam him with eggs, you are better being patient and approaching with neutral air / Bair the try to max out the damage once you get in. Punish if he whiffs the 2nd hit of the forward smash / a Dair. Not the easiest fight, going to be a long drawn out one.

 

[Mmac]

Yeah... I think it has to be longer than that....

 

[bigman40]

Everyone get off Mmac's ****. He's doing what he can man, jeez. I'll write up the **** thing.

Toon Link: This matchup you want to have space in case they start spamming. Picking small stages (Smashville) will get you stuck near the edge and with no where to run/dodge Toon Link's spam. Buy your time to have a comfortable moment to get in and add some quick damage. However, don't get careless up close, as Toon Link's Zair and attacks can get you off of him, and zone you out. His bomb isn't as much of a factor since you can easily catch them, and use them to your advantage.

Aerial wise, if you want to be right in his face, make sure you get your aerials out before his, and even when spacing your aerials, it'll be in your best interest to get Toon Link to bait an aerial first. During recovery, you want to hesitate before going onto the stage for TL's might attempt to use Dair to get in a quick kill. If you have him out and trying to recover, force him to use his DJ. You want to just have to deal with only his UpB, as that can recover from fairly low spots.

One of Toon Link's stages that I find an advantage to him is Lylat. You don't want to get Dsmashed off the stage then have to recover from a very ugly spot. You can end up losing your life there since it launches you at a low angle to where you can't use your UpB first. I 'd say use the platforms to evade attacks, while at the same time, doing some damage. One last thing about this stage, wait until you get him to truly high percents before attempting to kill him completely. The high and far blastzones will mess up Yoshi's killing, and if you use them too early, you will have even more problems since your only few killing moves won't kill very well at those high percents.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'll start things off for Link. the main issue that Link will cause yoshi is the fact that overall, his projectile game rivals that of yoshi's and he can maintain spacing more easily.
His bombs work well in zoning the air making approaching difficult even more so when you take into account his Zair.
His boomerang works well in pressuring due to its pull and push and can ruin things.

jab cancels are also pretty dangerous for Yoshi so avoid the jabs since Link can follow up with them rather well and a Dsmash at higher percents is not good.
His dar is also good for edge guarding because it stays outs o long so its best to toss out eggs first to prevent him harassing you with it.

His DAc is among the best in the game and travels far very quickly so be wary of it.
he can also Zair~bomb~DAC or Zair~grab at lower percents.


of course Link has very noitceable weaknesses. His close range game is below par and his recovery is among the worst in the game if not the worst. So once you throw him off the stage you can use eggs and aerials to keep him off and kill him early.
yoshi also beats him out aerially when they go beyond SH range because the Zair isn't as effective.

I'll add more when I have time.

 

[Tidycats29]

I wrote something pretty well for TL IMO

-_______________________________-

 

[TLMSheikant]

Everyone get off Mmac's ****. He's doing what he can man, jeez. I'll write up the **** thing.

Toon Link: This matchup you want to have space in case they start spamming. Picking small stages (Smashville) will get you stuck near the edge and with no where to run/dodge Toon Link's spam. Buy your time to have a comfortable moment to get in and add some quick damage. However, don't get careless up close, as Toon Link's Zair and attacks can get you off of him, and zone you out. His bomb isn't as much of a factor since you can easily catch them, and use them to your advantage.

Aerial wise, if you want to be right in his face, make sure you get your aerials out before his, and even when spacing your aerials, it'll be in your best interest to get Toon Link to bait an aerial first. During recovery, you want to hesitate before going onto the stage for those spammy Dair Toon Link players. If you have him out and trying to recover, force him to use his DJ. You want to just have to deal with only his UpB, as that can recover from fairly low spots.

One of Toon Link's stages that I find an advantage to him is Lylat. You don't want to get Dsmashed off the stage then have to recover from a very ugly spot. You can end up losing your life there since it launches you at a low angle to where you can't use your UpB first. I 'd say use the platforms to evade attacks, while at the same time, doing some damage. One last thing about this stage, wait until you get him to truly high percents before attempting to kill him completely. The high and far blastzones will mess up Yoshi's killing, and if you use them too early, you will have even more problems since your only few killing moves won't kill very well at those high percents.

What the **** at the bold text? Other than that its an ok summary. I play my friend's yoshi a lot and he says that its one of his worst matchups but i dont know yoshi can get pretty annoying too lol. I say its anywhere between even and 60:40 TL because of our zoning game.

 

[bigman40]

What the **** at the bold text? Other than that its an ok summary. I play my friend's yoshi a lot and he says that its one of his worst matchups but i dont know yoshi can get pretty annoying too lol. I say its anywhere between even and 60:40 TL because of our zoning game.

I only said that to note the ones that attempt to pull one out of their ***, trying to spike Yoshi. My friend tries it at very random times, but it's so noticable that it's nearly not even worth going for it. I don't know how other people play TL so it may be a tad too much. I'll change it to just TL's who attempt Dair to spike.

The only thing that keeps me from saying that it's 60:40 TL is the fact that TL is very predictable. Zair is mainly the only thing that keeps me about mid range from TL (and I don't like to be mid range alot in this matchup).

Edit: and to add to that summary, I hate writing them. I completely suck at writing. I only did it cause of people *****ing about wanting things from Mmac, but never help out themselves (not pointing anyone out. So don't start *****ing at me either if you feel offended).

 

[TLMSheikant]

Oh sorry from ur post i understood that all TL's spam dair lol. If anything we spam zair, nair and bair lol. But no TL's dair is too risky offstage (even onstage ) so GOOD TL's dont use it.

 

[Snowstalker]

So, what is the matchup? 4:6?

 

[Tidycats29]

I havent been on much
but i see you guys are discussing toon link still

Its kinda weird because unlike link
you can't really outspam toon link

cause he really doesn't need to charge arrow much
boomerang seems to have a bit of more range than the gale one

so you can get a few eggs in but not the same compared to link

so it's better to throw a few eggs and approach
move while you throw them

Approaching with nair is pretty safe in this match up
just don't make it so obvious or you'll get and up smash from Toon Link and those hurt...

Egg roll is worthless in this match up so really don't waste your time here
Toon link stops it easily with an arrow

Your Bair is ok in this match up
but due to Toon Link small size
Don't expect to poke much
Use it to put pressure then jab him

Your down tilt and pivot grab are good here

Your down tilt has more range than his side smash and his side tilt and his "jab"
and your pivot grab does too
so in close quarters keep that in mind

But usually Toon link's like to bair A LOT
and throw bombs
watch the bombs
throw and egg and make him regret to take out bombs

And for his bair i suggest you pivot grab

If he is using bair in air to combo
you can get out of it with air dodge it's not that hard really

don't use shield in this match up much
us yoshi users don't use that much anyway

but spot dodge and spot dodge
Shield grab is pretty dumb in this match up
cause it barely works
not many moves you can punish against toon link with a shield grab
so i don't recomend shield grabbing

Toon link's Dair
is not as great as link's

SO punish him when he misses it
He can't hold it in air so he goes straight down

If you Uair a Toon link dair right
you both get hit

I don't think yoshi's Uair wins

but chances of toon link hitting you and you not hitting him is much more probable to happen

So i don't suggest you challenge him by going under him waiting for A dair and you trying to uair him

Toon link is harder to gimp
cause he can recover easier than link
but you still can gimp him
it's probably 15% harder than link but it can be done

Overall watch the proyectiles
be patient don't make mistakes
Toon Link can punish you and pretty bad at times

It'll be easier to kill him cause he is lightweight compared to his twilight self

I believe this match up is 55:45 yoshi


I tried my best to sum up
anything i miss?
anything that you guys think differently
plz do tell

*cough*

well -___-

 

[Mmac]

Yeah, I saw it Tidy and it's good. It's laid out kinda like a Poem.


I am still thinking of the ratio. It seems like it evens out to the original 4.5, rounding up everyones opinions. However Saskue, Who I think is one of the better and more repectiable Toon Links out here, think it's tough for Took Link.

 

[SOVAman]

Basically, you want me to change the format so that it makes Yoshi appear artificially worse? I don't know how people can get confused with the current system, especially when this is how EVERYONE does it. All it is it's just simplified it.


About Summaries, I want other people to do them (Infact I have been saying that since a month ago). I always get yelled at because I am doing it "wrong". Plus there are people here who know the matchup better than I do. I am just not a Multi-Paragraph guy. Takes me forever to write them

Well looking at a number just says whether it is easy or hard it doesn't say how you have too play the match-up to make it easy and why does it matter how everyone else is doing it there just doing it that way cuz they think it is a standard which it is not.

All I am trying to say it is a more efficient and more helpful way to do it instead of arguing the whole time on whether its a (Example) 4.5 or 5.0 when you can just give a description on how to play the match up.

 

[Mmac]

Well looking at a number just says whether it is easy or hard it doesn't say how you have too play the match-up to make it easy and why does it matter how everyone else is doing it there just doing it that way cuz they think it is a standard which it is not.

All I am trying to say it is a more efficient and more helpful way to do it instead of arguing the whole time on whether its a (Example) 4.5 or 5.0 when you can just give a description on how to play the match up.

Except... I am doing Descriptions/Summaries of the matchups we discuss. It's not like we are doing months worth of discussions for 2 stupud digits....

 

[SOVAman]

Except... I am doing Descriptions/Summaries of the matchups we discuss. It's not like we are doing months worth of discussions for 2 stupud digits....

Okay you win since I will never win because it is your match up thread I am just saying if you have numbers most people will just look at the number and never read the description by changing it it will help the Yoshi community.

 

[Mmac]

Okay you win since I will never win because it is your match up thread I am just saying if you have numbers most people will just look at the number and never read the description by changing it it will help the Yoshi community.

Yeah, I just don't see that happening. I don't think someone looking for matchup help is just going to look at the number for advice.

 

[c0nd0r]

Why are yoshi's matchups so high? Acording to this list, he's probably high tier, but we all know that not true...

only 40:60 on snake?
60:40 on samus?

Wat are you smoking?

 

[Chaco]

Why are yoshi's matchups so high? Acording to this list, he's probably high tier, but we all know that not true...

only 40:60 on snake?
60:40 on samus?

Wat are you smoking?

Samus's were pushing 50-50. We made it 60:40. So uh, look before you talk. And Snake isn't all that hard for Yoshi.

What are you smoking?


Also, Lil'b, stop jumping all over Mmac, what you're saying makes no sense. If they have a question about the match up they are not going to just look at the number.

 

[Mmac]

Why are yoshi's matchups so high? Acording to this list, he's probably high tier, but we all know that not true...

only 40:60 on snake?
60:40 on samus?

Wat are you smoking?

Well Eggs are a great Anti Nade Spam, and we have a 0-Death on him.

Samus's Projectile Camp just gets swatted out of the way, and other than Zair, She doesn't really have much options against Yoshi's Aerials and Quick Tilts.

There's alot more, but those are just more important points.


And it is true


Maybe not, but he is greatly underestimated

 

[Tidycats29]

Yeah, I saw it Tidy and it's good. It's laid out kinda like a Poem.


I am still thinking of the ratio. It seems like it evens out to the original 4.5, rounding up everyones opinions. However Saskue, Who I think is one of the better and more repectiable Toon Links out here, think it's tough for Took Link.

lol it's a bad habit
i do write poems in spanish
so yeah


Hmm
i don't see toon link in an advantage if you keep pressuring him
that's something yoshi can do good
pressure
and good toon link want space
and It's not impossible to approach him

reason i said 5.5 for dino

 

[MrEh]

Why are yoshi's matchups so high? Acording to this list, he's probably high tier, but we all know that not true...

only 40:60 on snake?
60:40 on samus?

Wat are you smoking?

You don't seem to understand how matchups work. Just because the matchups aren't all that bad for Yoshi, doesn't make him low tier material. The only reason he's low tier is because no one uses him in tourneys.

Hell, look at Bowser. All his matchups are like 40-60, and he's even crappier then Yoshi.

 

[DMG]

Yoshi vs TL is something like 55:45 or 60-40 for TL. Yoshi will have a tough time dealing with his projectiles, his Zair, and his reach is nothing to scoff at either.

Both sides have trouble landing killing blows, both sides have at least 1 projectile (TL's arsenal is better though), both sides should be fine while recovering, and they both function well on both ground and air. I think what sets TL apart from Yoshi are his better spacing tools, plain and simple.

 

[Mmac]

The thing though is that with some practise, Yoshi can swat his Arrows/Boomerang out of the Sky, and follow through an approach. Not as easy as Samus's (His Arrow's have weird properties), but they don't exactly travel fast in the first place

If Projectile Walls is one of the reason Toon Link has a upper hand, I want to know how much of an impact a Yoshi will make if he can just simply attack through it unharmed


Another Edit: Can anyone collect me a Quote Tree or an Original Summary of the Snake, ROB, and Olimar Matchups? I have to go for a couple hours....

 

[Chaco]

I would but I'm not hardly experienced enough in those three match ups, I tend to play GnW against them.

 

[DMG]

The thing though is that with some practise, Yoshi can swat his Arrows/Boomerang out of the Sky, and follow through an approach. Not as easy as Samus's (His Arrow's have weird properties), but they don't exactly travel fast in the first place.

It's not how fast they travel, but how annoying they are to get past and how fast he can shoot them. He can get a few off pretty quick, especially if he lands before doing one to cancel most of the lag.

If Projectile Walls is one of the reason Toon Link has a upper hand, I want to know how much of an impact a Yoshi will make if he can just simply attack through it unharmed

Well it would be hard to hit a bomb and have that not explode (Can happen, but usually doesn't for any character), and Zair is not something you can swat away really.

If Yoshi uses Bair/Nair to get rid of TL's projectiles, then while Yoshi is swinging his tail or holding his foot out TL uses Zair/tosses a bomb. If you don't do an aerial and just decide to try and go over his wall/airdodge through, then you have to deal with the positional disadvantage he has just put you in.