The New Tier List

[SpeedGhost]

I wish we could talk this out face-to-face, it would go alot faster and then we could play some MM sets.

Anyhow, naturally I have seen Isai's weegee vids. But using Isai as an example doesnt always work because his overall ability allows him to outplay almost all of his competition even when he is using chars that would normally be at a disadvantage. It's like when he takes games off of SBF's Fox with his Jiggs. Terrible MU, but he can win games because he has amazing skill.



And are we talking about utilting directly to UpB? cuz im not. or simply starting off a combo with U-tilt... i dont even know anymore... it doesnt matter

Maybe you're definition of scrubs is different than mine... i dont even know man

Why dont we just drop it and talk about something interesting instead of arguing through a tedious process. i feel like this could all just be summed up to misinterpretation of eachothers statements.

The only thing that annoys me is your condescending comments about me being a possible contributor to smashwiki or

even at extremely high levels of play (which you have no experience with, btw).

You dont know me man.. im not takin shots at you. im just debating and trying to contribute to smash64 discussion... those are uncalled for and unfounded.

 

[The Star King]

And no, scrubs don't Utilt->upB. They really, really don't.

He said a combination of utilts/uairs, not necessarily utilt -> upB. What's with your reading comprehension lately?

 

[SpeedGhost]

Thank you Star King.

 

[Battlecow]

I wish we could talk this out face-to-face, it would go alot faster and then we could play some MM sets.

I hope we get a chance to do that sometime, I COULD USE THE EXTRA CASH

Why dont we just drop it and talk about something interesting instead of arguing through a tedious process. i feel like this could all just be summed up to misinterpretation of eachothers statements.

Sounds good bro.

The only thing that annoys me is your condescending comments about me being a possible contributor to smashwiki or

You dont know me man.. im not takin shots at you. im just debating and trying to contribute to smash64 discussion... those are uncalled for and unfounded.

I was just striking back for the "you must only play noobs" thing. It was kinda rich coming from a guy who legit did only play noobs...

 

[SpeedGhost]

haha.. **** bro. lets just chill on this for now. i think i read somewhere you only play KB.. or no? cuz i was gunna hit apex and we could get those MM's done and your money jammed into my pocket there .. then you could be luigi and i could space you for a while... :D

 

[Battlecow]

I did only play KB for a while, but I'm learning my way around a Hori Minipad so that I can take some cash out of suckers at a couple of MW tourneys I'm going to in the next month or so.

Prolly not gonna make it to Apex (Can't really skip school), but there'll be a chance sometime.

 

[Chavo1]

only one problem, falcon should be higher in my opinion. just sayin.

 

[Battlecow]

You obviously aren't qualified to say that, so why don't you ask us why falcon isn't higher instead? Or better yet, just play until you get good enough to see why he's only high tier

 

[Fish641]

Why is Mario considered A tier, rather than B? What sets him above Yoshi to the point that he's in a different classification entirely?

 

[ciaza]

The tier list is math-crafted, and based on individual match-ups. Mario simply does better enough against the cast as a whole over Yoshi to the point where a separation in tiers is necessary.

Both Mario and Yoshi have their own strengths and weaknesses, but you'd really have to look at each individual match-up. Looking at their characteristics by themselves wouldn't do them justice, IMO.

 

[Fish641]

Isn't there an inherent problem that we ran into with the dreamland MU thread? I mean, we had the ratio debate like 5 times over, and the +/- n system didn't seem like it matched up to 5 points each in related match ups (ratios tended to have higher variance).

Even so, assuming that we had every match up as a consensus, what actual properties does Mario have that makes him much better than Yoshi? Is it his approach, his combo game, what?

 

[ciaza]

Since the discussion is incomplete on the MU you read, we are still using the tier list based on the old MU chart.

Both Mario and Yoshi are good characters. Listing their characteristics would not convince yourself, or anyone that one is better than the other. At least, there wouldn't be enough of a distinction and it would be questionable. You can feel free to look up each characters matches in the old match up chart if it helps.

 

[ballin4life]

Mario gimps better than Yoshi and has a better recovery

 

[The Star King]

I actually wouldn't mind Mario being legal in low tier tournaments

/flameshield

I don't think he doesn't belong in A tier, though. I don't hate him THAT much.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I actually wouldn't mind Mario being legal in low tier tournaments

/flameshield

I don't think he doesn't belong in A tier, though. I don't hate him THAT much.

I believe Mario's matchups are good enough with the characters above him and below him for A tier. (Such as in general doing better vs. Kirby and Falcon than the others below him)

 

[The Star King]

I agreed in the very post you're quoting. *sigh*

Maybe the intentional double negative threw you off?

 

[Wizzrobe]

I like the list but I always hate how Link is so low on smash 64 tier list the when he should be higher.

 

[Sangoku]

Why people don't show a little bit more modesty? Instead of saying "Link should be higher", try to say something like "I think Link should be higher/Why is Link so low?" or something. Then people will try to prove their point. It amazes me every time how everybody think they know everything.

I'm not mad, even if the tone might suggest so.

 

[The Star King]

It's implied that they think so. If I say "Mario is not better than Falcon", I'm not saying it's an absolute fact (even though it is, ballin's dumb ). IMO, it's pretty much the same as saying "I don't think Mario is better than Falcon".

 

[Sangoku]

Oh then: this list is wrong and not accurate, Samus is the best character.

 

[The Star King]

If somebody said that they'd be wrong, of course, but there's nothing wrong with the WAY they're saying it :/

 

[asianaussie]

You're just picking at things. Eat your vegetables.

I think Link should be top of C tier (even though he technically IS, it just hasn't been updated). If we're talking Hyrule he could go up even more.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Link is too good on Hyrule.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, link's better than weegee just by the matchup math.

 

[ciaza]

It's implied that they think so. If I say "Mario is not better than Falcon", I'm not saying it's an absolute fact (even though it is, ballin's dumb ). IMO, it's pretty much the same as saying "I don't think Mario is better than Falcon".

I disagree. Whenever I see someone say something like that, all I think in my head is: "back up your ****". If you do of course provide evidence with the statement I'm fine with it, but stand alone I'd prefer stuff like: "I believe Mario is better than Falcon." That statement also requires **** to back it up of course, but they're not coming off as smug who's word is law that way.

 

[Olikus]

with the new stage list, if anything link should drop a spot.

 

[The Star King]

I disagree. Whenever I see someone say something like that, all I think in my head is: "back up your ****". If you do of course provide evidence with the statement I'm fine with it, but stand alone I'd prefer stuff like: "I believe Mario is better than Falcon." That statement also requires **** to back it up of course, but they're not coming off as smug who's word is law that way.

I think they should back up outrageous claims, too. I just don't see why it matters how they say it.

 

[ciaza]

What I'm saying is I don't see the implication that what they're saying is subjective, especially if they word it as fact.

 

[Battlecow]

SK, you should be respectful if you're a scrub. Saying dumb things as fact is the opposite of respectful.

 

[The Star King]

I word things as fact all the time, but it doesn't mean I think it's a fact. See my previous example.

 

[ciaza]

I know you don't, what I want you to realise is that some like me do not see that. A lot of people do take things at face value. I now know how to treat your posts specifically, before I did not. But you can bet your *** I'm not going to assume every post worded as fact has an underlying subjective tone in it.

 

[asianaussie]

ciaza took the time to say what i couldn't be bothered saying

and then he added the word '***' in

 

[The Star King]

But I wasn't saying it's, like, a specific thing only I do. Tons of people do it, not just me.

 

[asianaussie]

it's on you to back it up if you state something factually but don't believe it's a fact

it's stated as argumentative/subjective anyway

 

[ballin4life]

Personally I think that it's on you to back it up if you state something factually but don't believe it's a fact

Fixed your post

 

[Battlecow]

Personally I think that he believes it's a fact.

 

[Ocean]

it's a fact that battlecow personally believes that it's a fact.

 

[Battlecow]

Actually, I personally believe that I was only saying that I personally believe it's a fact for comedic effect; in fact, I personally believe that he personally believes that belief (personal or otherwise) in itself is unbelievable, and that in fact what one "should" do is impossible to factually determine.

 

[MasterSwordStudio]

After a little over two months of debating Match-Ups, the Smash 64 Community have come up with the new and improved official Tier List. All of that can be found in this topic.

S Tier
(1)Pikachu
(2)Fox

A Tier
(3)Kirby
(4)Falcon
(5)Mario

B Tier
(6)Yoshi
(7)DK
(8)Ness
(9)Jigglypuff

C Tier
(10)Luigi
(11)Link
(12)Samus​

I think luigi should be a bit higher.

 

[Sangoku]

I think luigi should be a bit lower.