The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

amageish

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Not to be pessimistic or anything, but when has a game ever been given a closer release?
Okay, first off: Hype responsibly and let's not assume it is coming any earlier then they've said.

That said, ATLUS has pushed localizations up quite a few times actually, most recently with Persona 5 Dancing in Starlight and Persona 3 Dancing in Moonlight coming out in December 2018 instead of the originally-announced Spring 2019.

I just realized.

Go to the 2:00 mark of the video under the assumption that Joker pulls a big sacrifice play. The lines said gain a frightening amount of context.
I kind of doubt they'd do this...

...again. P2 and P3 have enough sacrifical characters.

Otherwise, regarding my theory...

I still find Akechi's knowledge of the false world interesting... I now am wondering if he and Kasumi will both be unlikely allies, both hating the wish-granter in ways the other thieves are not willing to. This could explain why he is asking Joker if he wants to live in the false world, as he is offering to join him in stopping it.

I still don't know who is granting wishes, but don't expect it to be Kasumi.
 

EarlTamm

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Okay, first off: Hype responsibly and let's not assume it is coming any earlier then they've said.

That said, ATLUS has pushed localizations up quite a few times actually, most recently with Persona 5 Dancing in Starlight and Persona 3 Dancing in Moonlight coming out in December 2018 instead of the originally-announced Spring 2019.



I kind of doubt they'd do this...

...again. P2 and P3 have enough sacrifical characters.

Otherwise, regarding my theory...

I still find Akechi's knowledge of the false world interesting... I now am wondering if he and Kasumi will both be unlikely allies, both hating the wish-granter in ways the other thieves are not willing to. This could explain why he is asking Joker if he wants to live in the false world, as he is offering to join him in stopping it.

I still don't know who is granting wishes, but don't expect it to be Kasumi.
Didn't realize that.

And we kill a god who thinks they know the best for humanity every game. I could see Atlus playing the sacrifice card.

I can see that, but it makes me wonder why he was not with Morgana and Joker when Kasumi awakened.
 

amageish

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Didn't realize that.

And we kill a god who thinks they know the best for humanity every game. I could see Atlus playing the sacrifice card.

I can see that, but it makes me wonder why he was not with Morgana and Joker when Kasumi awakened.
True, but that is much more easily adapted into every theme. Why would you need to sacrifice yourself in P5? Isn't the point of the new semester that you AREN'T messianic figure?

He could be busy pretending to be dead. He emergaces to be like "Look, Ren, I get that we aren't on good terms, but we can fight this together, unless you'd rather live in fantasy with your friends," just to be told "Yeah, we already have a team going and could use your expertise, as all we have right now is me, a magical cat, and a girl who awoke to her persona five minutes ago. Wanna join?"

On the other hand,I wonder if the death fake-out will even happen. They are changing so much for P5R I could see them just confirming Akechi's alive right away.
 

EarlTamm

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True, but that is much more easily adapted into every theme. Why would you need to sacrifice yourself in P5? Isn't the point of the new semester that you AREN'T messianic figure?

He could be busy pretending to be dead. He emergaces to be like "Look, Ren, I get that we aren't on good terms, but we can fight this together, unless you'd rather live in fantasy with your friends," just to be told "Yeah, we already have a team going and could use your expertise, as all we have right now is me, a magical cat, and a girl who awoke to her persona five minutes ago. Wanna join?"

On the other hand,I wonder if the death fake-out will even happen. They are changing so much for P5R I could see them just confirming Akechi's alive right away.
You know, does pulling a sacrifice always result in the person looking like a messiah? And it's not like Atlus really focuses too much on what happened before the third game.

That seems like a rather casual bombshell to drop on someone.

I imagine they will. Just don't know how. The fact that his confidant has changed complicates this a bit.
 

amageish

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You know, does pulling a sacrifice always result in the person looking like a messiah? And it's not like Atlus really focuses too much on what happened before the third game.

That seems like a rather casual bombshell to drop on someone.

I imagine they will. Just don't know how. The fact that his confidant has changed complicates this a bit.
It doesn't in all games, but when you are fighting gods that are misled about how to guide humanity... It's very difficult for that not to messiah-y? Especially when you explicitly discuss messiahs.

It would be kind of funny to kill of Joker right before the P3 protag is likely revived in Arena though.

I mean, I wrote it purposefully casually for comedy, but yeah. I suppose Akechi could also propose they fight it, Joker rejects him in favour of working with Kasumi, but then Kasumi points out that she's way too much of a novice for this... Something to draw it out, but I am betting on him being the fourth member of the reformed thieves.

Yeah, that's the thing. Plus, palace layouts seem to be changing randomly too.
 

EarlTamm

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Let's not forget P5 is full with death fake-outs...at leaş four of them.
The ultimate twist of all is when you then expect a fake-out, only for it to end up sticking.

Edit:
Hey amageish amageish , I decided to look back at the first trailer and realized something.

That final shot is looking rather messiah-like. The fact that Joker, on his own, is pretty much cross diving into the mystery palace is rather notable. I find the fact that he seems to have been touching some sort of screen even more like some sort of farewell. What do you think?
 
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amageish

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The ultimate twist of all is when you then expect a fake-out, only for it to end up sticking.

Edit:
Hey amageish amageish , I decided to look back at the first trailer and realized something.

That final shot is looking rather messiah-like. The fact that Joker, on his own, is pretty much cross diving into the mystery palace is rather notable. I find the fact that he seems to have been touching some sort of screen even more like some sort of farewell. What do you think?
Oh. He is jumping in a cross pose. That is... uh... Not subtle.

Maybe they will then? I wonder if that mystery palace would be the final palace though - could they go complete plot twist and have you take over as someone else as Joker is MIA?
 

EarlTamm

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Oh. He is jumping in a cross pose. That is... uh... Not subtle.

Maybe they will then? I wonder if that mystery palace would be the final palace though - could they go complete plot twist and have you take over as someone else as Joker is MIA?
I always found that shot kinda weird, as it never really looked like he was falling, if that makes sense. Now knowing what that structure is and entertaining the possibility of sacrifice and the messiah imagery that can come with it, this came rushing back to me.

I imagine if someone were to take over, it would be Kasumi. Her costume design is similar to his, she is a foil to him, she seems rather important in regards to this palace, and her Persona is very Arsene like. Not only is design, but the latest trailer had a scene where it seemed to be talking to her like how Arsene sometimes did(Around 3 minutes in). Most Persona's just talk for the contract and that's it.
 

amageish

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I always found that shot kinda weird, as it never really looked like he was falling, if that makes sense. Now knowing what that structure is and entertaining the possibility of sacrifice and the messiah imagery that can come with it, this came rushing back to me.

I imagine if someone were to take over, it would be Kasumi. Her costume design is similar to his, she is a foil to him, she seems rather important in regards to this palace, and her Persona is very Arsene like. Not only is design, but the latest trailer had a scene where it seemed to be talking to her like how Arsene sometimes did(Around 3 minutes in). Most Persona's just talk for the contract and that's it.
Yeah, that is definitely a good analysis. Points for your memory!

It'd be her or Akechi for sure, as both are foils. I feel like Akechi may be a bit too... well... Even if they accept him in the party, I don't think the thieves would be willing to let him become leader. Kasumi taking over would work much more naturally for sure, though now that we've said this it feels very P3 Anwser-y haha.
 

EarlTamm

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Yeah, that is definitely a good analysis. Points for your memory!

It'd be her or Akechi for sure, as both are foils. I feel like Akechi may be a bit too... well... Even if they accept him in the party, I don't think the thieves would be willing to let him become leader. Kasumi taking over would work much more naturally for sure, though now that we've said this it feels very P3 Anwser-y haha.
Yeah, Akechi is no form or position to lead. I think Kasumi could be a good lead, and she easily could perform any physical ability Joker can do. I imagine her taking charge can play into her arc.

I didn't play P3 The Answer, but from what I understand, everyone is depressed, Aigis's depression becomes a different robot, they have to fight some other version of death, and at one point they all start punching each other for some reason.

...I feel like that was a very entertaining description The Answer for those who played it.
 

amageish

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Yeah, Akechi is no form or position to lead. I think Kasumi could be a good lead, and she easily could perform any physical ability Joker can do. I imagine her taking charge can play into her arc.

I didn't play P3 The Answer, but from what I understand, everyone is depressed, Aigis's depression becomes a different robot, they have to fight some other version of death, and at one point they all start punching each other for some reason.

...I feel like that was a very entertaining description The Answer for those who played it.
Totally agreed. That could also be a very cliche "hero we need" moment, as she doesn't like the Thieves but has to lead them to save humanity.

That is the best description of The Answer ever. 10/10. Amazing.

The main thing you are missing that I was thinking of is how many characters are jealous/discontent with Aigis being the successor of the MC. Yukari is especially peeved throughout the whole game, leading to a lot of fans disliking her and labeling her as out-of-character (though, frankly, if my boyfriend died and I found out he'd also been flirting with a robot, I'd be pretty pissed). I feel like some people may not be thrilled if Kasumi took over for Joker, as she is the newbie in the group. I'm sure they'd accept it without needing to punch each other*, but still.

*in case of "Um, Actually," yes, the punching about the potential revival the MC and not about the successor status, but still.
 

EarlTamm

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Totally agreed. That could also be a very cliche "hero we need" moment, as she doesn't like the Thieves but has to lead them to save humanity.

That is the best description of The Answer ever. 10/10. Amazing.

The main thing you are missing that I was thinking of is how many characters are jealous/discontent with Aigis being the successor of the MC. Yukari is especially peeved throughout the whole game, leading to a lot of fans disliking her and labeling her as out-of-character (though, frankly, if my boyfriend died and I found out he'd also been flirting with a robot, I'd be pretty pissed). I feel like some people may not be thrilled if Kasumi took over for Joker, as she is the newbie in the group. I'm sure they'd accept it without needing to punch each other*, but still.

*in case of "Um, Actually," yes, the punching about the potential revival the MC and not about the successor status, but still.
I imagine if Joker does something pretty major for her(She is screaming at him to stop whatever he is trying to do), that would easily be a catalyst for her to try and take his place. We know she likes him after all.

Interesting. It does make me wonder how they would handle things like multiple Persona's and confidants if her were to go MIA. I doubt anyone would get punchy over Kasumi taking the leader role or reviving the MC. No, if anything, I could see the party getting punchy over the wishes making it less and less attractive to erase them or something like that. Seems like the natural extreme of the situation.
Btw, I am still very confused about Kasumi appearing in the Casino. I can never really make sense of that, considering all of the other stuff we have been shown.
 

amageish

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I imagine if Joker does something pretty major for her(She is screaming at him to stop whatever he is trying to do), that would easily be a catalyst for her to try and take his place. We know she likes him after all.

Interesting. It does make me wonder how they would handle things like multiple Persona's and confidants if her were to go MIA. I doubt anyone would get punchy over Kasumi taking the leader role or reviving the MC. No, if anything, I could see the party getting punchy over the wishes making it less and less attractive to erase them or something like that. Seems like the natural extreme of the situation.
Btw, I am still very confused about Kasumi appearing in the Casino. I can never really make sense of that, considering all of the other stuff we have been shown.
True for sure. She definitely would make sense as a new Joker.

Aigis simply gained the power of the Wild Card, which I feel like Kasumi could do too without trouble? Confidants are much harder though - maybe this is another version of the "yes/no" confidants anwser, as the end of the game has new mini-confindants for a new protagonist. Them fighting over the wishes seems possible, though I kind of doubt it? I feel like the base game actively avoided them fighting each other directly to the point where it would be an odd line to cross now....

Yeah. I am very confused. We know she awakes to her persona after it... I almost wonder if it was altered footage to avoid spoiling the new palace in the reveal trailer?
 

EarlTamm

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True for sure. She definitely would make sense as a new Joker.

Aigis simply gained the power of the Wild Card, which I feel like Kasumi could do too without trouble? Confidants are much harder though - maybe this is another version of the "yes/no" confidants anwser, as the end of the game has new mini-confindants for a new protagonist. Them fighting over the wishes seems possible, though I kind of doubt it? I feel like the base game actively avoided them fighting each other directly to the point where it would be an odd line to cross now....

Yeah. I am very confused. We know she awakes to her persona after it... I almost wonder if it was altered footage to avoid spoiling the new palace in the reveal trailer?
Yeah, I can see what you mean when it comes to possible infighting. How does one "obtain" the Wild Card though, and what makes Kasumi likely in that regard? When it comes to confidantes, perhaps this could link to that confidant hint we were given? There are technically more confidants, but they are all with the same people as before, just with a different protag.

Does Atlus have a history of doing that sort of thing? Plus, the awakening we saw took place in the new palace, so it's not like they were hiding anything.
 

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Yeah, I can see what you mean when it comes to possible infighting. How does one "obtain" the Wild Card though, and what makes Kasumi likely in that regard? When it comes to confidantes, perhaps this could link to that confidant hint we were given? There are technically more confidants, but they are all with the same people as before, just with a different protag.

Does Atlus have a history of doing that sort of thing? Plus, the awakening we saw took place in the new palace, so it's not like they were hiding anything.
isn't the new Doctor Confidant supposed to have the "Consultant" arcana? Ergo, he consults Joker into training Kasumi to be his successor when he's gone...? idk really
 

amageish

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Yeah, I can see what you mean when it comes to possible infighting. How does one "obtain" the Wild Card though, and what makes Kasumi likely in that regard? When it comes to confidantes, perhaps this could link to that confidant hint we were given? There are technically more confidants, but they are all with the same people as before, just with a different protag.

Does Atlus have a history of doing that sort of thing? Plus, the awakening we saw took place in the new palace, so it's not like they were hiding anything.
In P3, the Wild Card was given to Aigis via the power of symbolism. I mean, I think it was explained by the Velvet Room appearing for her in a time of need and some casual Philemon assistance, but that was really just to justify her status as Makoto's successor. So, Kasumi being the most logical successor for Joker kind of makes her the most logical for Igor/Philemon to pick.

I think they have done that extraordinarily rarely? But yeah, maybe they will pull a TMS#FE and make you do harder versions of old palace puzzles towards the end of the game. Hopefully it works better then it did in TMS#FE.
 

EarlTamm

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In P3, the Wild Card was given to Aigis via the power of symbolism. I mean, I think it was explained by the Velvet Room appearing for her in a time of need and some casual Philemon assistance, but that was really just to justify her status as Makoto's successor. So, Kasumi being the most logical successor for Joker kind of makes her the most logical for Igor/Philemon to pick.

I think they have done that extraordinarily rarely? But yeah, maybe they will pull a TMS#FE and make you do harder versions of old palace puzzles towards the end of the game. Hopefully it works better then it did in TMS#FE.
You know, when you said symbolism, it made me think about something. Kasumi likely is going to have something happen to her arcana, for reasons that has well been discussed. What if the reason it does not go all the way to 10 is because there is no way Joker can reach that point before he pulls the sacrifice play? Maybe when Kasumi inherits his responsibility, her arcana changes to reflect that.

I am a bit confused on what you mean. I was just asking if they have a history of editing trailers. I do agree with that palace idea, as I am getting that sense. Never played TMS#FE though. It's kinda sad that it seems like Three Houses is the better SMTXFE crossover game. It was already overshadowed enough.
 

amageish

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You know, when you said symbolism, it made me think about something. Kasumi likely is going to have something happen to her arcana, for reasons that has well been discussed. What if the reason it does not go all the way to 10 is because there is no way Joker can reach that point before he pulls the sacrifice play? Maybe when Kasumi inherits his responsibility, her arcana changes to reflect that.

I am a bit confused on what you mean. I was just asking if they have a history of editing trailers. I do agree with that palace idea, as I am getting that sense. Never played TMS#FE though. It's kinda sad that it seems like Three Houses is the better SMTXFE crossover game. It was already overshadowed enough.
Ooooooooooh. That would be interesting. I do agree with the general theories that her arcana purifies itself at some point too...

Also, this would be kind of full circle, having Kasumi take over, given how she was thought of a FeMC after the teaser trailer first dropped lol.

They have edited trailers, but extradonarily rarely. So, yeah, I do see the point that they may have story reasons to return to the old palaces, which is something that kind of happens in TMS#FE as well. I really liked TMS#FE, but I would like an actual SMT x FE crossover game sometime... Three Houses is fantastic though - it turns out that combining mechanics of my favourite franchises leads to a game I like quite a lot.
 

EarlTamm

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Ooooooooooh. That would be interesting. I do agree with the general theories that her arcana purifies itself at some point too...

Also, this would be kind of full circle, having Kasumi take over, given how she was thought of a FeMC after the teaser trailer first dropped lol.

They have edited trailers, but extradonarily rarely. So, yeah, I do see the point that they may have story reasons to return to the old palaces, which is something that kind of happens in TMS#FE as well. I really liked TMS#FE, but I would like an actual SMT x FE crossover game sometime... Three Houses is fantastic though - it turns out that combining mechanics of my favourite franchises leads to a game I like quite a lot.
I imagine what it transforms into will either be the Jester or some other Joker equivalent like the Jester. It would be neat to have the Jester arcana be the arcana that someone shifts to rather than the other way around.

Man, we were so sure about her being a FeMC in the Joker thread. The Jane situation really helped put that notion into our head.

The thing about her appearing in the Casino, it always came across as her interrupting Joker's escape scene from the start of the game. I may be wrong about that, but that is where my mind always jumps to.
As for Three Houses in regards to TMS#FE, I would just like to link this excerpt from TH's TV Tropes YMMV page.
"Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE drew ire from fans of Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei for bearing minimal resemblance to either franchise. Meanwhile, between the time management systems, surprisingly dark story routes dealing with a conflict resembling the Law/Neutral/Chaos trio, and the abandonment of the weapons triangle, Three Houses feels more like an SMT crossover than the aforementioned game ever did."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FireEmblemThreeHouses
 
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amageish

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I imagine what it transforms into will either be the Jester or some other Joker equivalent like the Jester. It would be neat to have the Jester arcana be the arcana that someone shifts to rather than the other way around.

Man, we were so sure about her being a FeMC in the Joker thread. The Jane situation really helped put that notion into our head.

The thing about her appearing in the Casino, it always came across as her interrupting Joker's escape scene from the start of the game. I may be wrong about that, but that is where my mind always jumps to.
As for Three Houses in regards to TMS#FE, I would just like to link this excerpt from TH's TV Tropes YMMV page.
"Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE drew ire from fans of Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei for bearing minimal resemblance to either franchise. Meanwhile, between the time management systems, surprisingly dark story routes dealing with a conflict resembling the Law/Neutral/Chaos trio, and the abandonment of the weapons triangle, Three Houses feels more like an SMT crossover than the aforementioned game ever did."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/FireEmblemThreeHouses
That would make some sense - I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a different Spanish/French translation of fool though, instead of full-on Jester. Jester is all about rejecting relationships, which is not really applicable for a protagonist of Persona.

Yeah, definitely... I feel like the developers mentioning how she was designed to as non-intrustive as possible, hence her design, does at least vindicate our feelings that she looks like a self-insert. As while I do like her design a lot, she looks super self-insert-y in comparison to the other characters...

That idea hadn't even occured to me. It's just weird as we see her wake to her persona "later"...

It is pretty funny in hindsight, especially as Koei Techmo were the collobrators for TH and not ATLUS... TMS#FE could probably have been salvaged had the original trailer not been promoting a game that was scrapped. The fact it came out when debates about the line between censorship and localization was at a fever-pitch definitely hurt it too.
 

EarlTamm

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That would make some sense - I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a different Spanish/French translation of fool though, instead of full-on Jester. Jester is all about rejecting relationships, which is not really applicable for a protagonist of Persona.

Yeah, definitely... I feel like the developers mentioning how she was designed to as non-intrustive as possible, hence her design, does at least vindicate our feelings that she looks like a self-insert. As while I do like her design a lot, she looks super self-insert-y in comparison to the other characters...

That idea hadn't even occured to me. It's just weird as we see her wake to her persona "later"...

It is pretty funny in hindsight, especially as Koei Techmo were the collobrators for TH and not ATLUS... TMS#FE could probably have been salvaged had the original trailer not been promoting a game that was scrapped. The fact it came out when debates about the line between censorship and localization was at a fever-pitch definitely hurt it too.
Yeah, that is why I mentioned "some other Joker equivalent". The Jester is certainly not linked to anything positive, considering who it belonged to originally, but I am still keeping it in mind. I have always seen the Jester to represent someone acting like the Fool rather than actually being one, which could play to some possible traits of Kasumi, especially if she does inherit Joker's position.

Yeah, that is what is breaking my mind. It doesn't help that it's as if she is in shadow in that scene(She looks a bit darker) and is pulling what looks like the classic "You thought I was going to kill you, but I am actually saving you" move.

Yeah, that first trailer certainly did not match what we eventually got.
 

amageish

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Yeah, that is why I mentioned "some other Joker equivalent". The Jester is certainly not linked to anything positive, considering who it belonged to originally, but I am still keeping it in mind. I have always seen the Jester to represent someone acting like the Fool rather than actually being one, which could play to some possible traits of Kasumi, especially if she does inherit Joker's position.

Yeah, that is what is breaking my mind. It doesn't help that it's as if she is in shadow in that scene(She looks a bit darker) and is pulling what looks like the classic "You thought I was going to kill you, but I am actually saving you" move.

Yeah, that first trailer certainly did not match what we eventually got.
That is definitely fair and a much more charitable interpretation of Jester. I just don't know if they'd do it again given Adachi, but I also don't know of any other Fool-esque cards in other tarot decks.

Here's something completely insane they could do: Faith is one of three unnumbered virtue cards from Visconti Modrone tarot sets, with the other two being Charity and Hope. What if her arc was reflected in her changing between these three cards? Maybe she's Faith during the first act of the game, becomes Charity once she agrees to join you, then becomes Hope if Joker messiahs out and she becomes the leader? All the cards are numberless, given how the Wild Card is justified as being number 0 with infinite potential, you could argue no number has tonnes of potential as well...

That is possible, but wouldn't such a dramatic moment be given actual animation and not just combat effects? Unless it is during an existent miniboss fight or something...

Definitely not. I get ATLUS' reason for changing it up - fear of just making a worse FE game - but it still has a colossus screw-up to announce it as they did.
 

EarlTamm

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That is definitely fair and a much more charitable interpretation of Jester. I just don't know if they'd do it again given Adachi, but I also don't know of any other Fool-esque cards in other tarot decks.

Here's something completely insane they could do: Faith is one of three unnumbered virtue cards from Visconti Modrone tarot sets, with the other two being Charity and Hope. What if her arc was reflected in her changing between these three cards? Maybe she's Faith during the first act of the game, becomes Charity once she agrees to join you, then becomes Hope if Joker messiahs out and she becomes the leader? All the cards are numberless, given how the Wild Card is justified as being number 0 with infinite potential, you could argue no number has tonnes of potential as well...

That is possible, but wouldn't such a dramatic moment be given actual animation and not just combat effects? Unless it is during an existent miniboss fight or something...

Definitely not. I get ATLUS' reason for changing it up - fear of just making a worse FE game - but it still has a colossus screw-up to announce it as they did.
Yeah, the association might give off the wrong idea. I am curious, if you can't think up any other Fool-esque cards, then what are other tarots 0 cards like?

That sounds like a great idea. I imagine Hope would pretty much be her maxing out. And I would agree that being numberless is much like being 0, except having no designation of endless potential is inherently more free in a way. It's like you are outside the system itself.

I was referring to the moment around the 1:50 mark of the second trailer, which continues into the very beginning of the Kasumi trailer. It is a cutscene.


Shame how things turned out as they did. I imagine there is very little chance for a retry at the idea.
 

amageish

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Yeah, the association might give off the wrong idea. I am curious, if you can't think up any other Fool-esque cards, then what are other tarots 0 cards like?

That sounds like a great idea. I imagine Hope would pretty much be her maxing out. And I would agree that being numberless is much like being 0, except having no designation of endless potential is inherently more free in a way. It's like you are outside the system itself.

I was referring to the moment around the 1:50 mark of the second trailer, which continues into the very beginning of the Kasumi trailer. It is a cutscene.


Shame how things turned out as they did. I imagine there is very little chance for a retry at the idea.
All the 0s I know are Fools or Jesters. I suppose they could cheat a bit and have something like "The Trickster," as some tarot decks in other languages have words that skew the meaning slightly, but they are all in the general area of Fool AFIAK. That said, my tarot knowledge has come down to a few books I read when doing research in university and I'm not an expert haha.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty into this idea now... Being outside of the system is a great way to put it - they could maybe have that be reflected mechanically with a boost when changing personas or something? I do wonder: If she was a Joker successor, would they give her Arsene like how Aigis got Orpheus?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. Sorry, I was still hung up on the casino gameplay. Yes, that is definitely a twist good guy reveal in the new area. Which does make one wonder if we will have met Kasumi in the metaverse prior to her getting a persona, a la Haru...

I mean, ATLUS and Nintendo are still close, so it is possible, if unlikely. I could see a nod to it happening if they made a Project X Zone 3 though, now that ATLUS has been merged with SEGA more directly.

Also, random thing I missed from announcements: P5R will include all the DLC from P5, plus a bonus FeMC Orpheus persona from P3P. Huzzah for ATLUS remembering she exists.
 

EarlTamm

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All the 0s I know are Fools or Jesters. I suppose they could cheat a bit and have something like "The Trickster," as some tarot decks in other languages have words that skew the meaning slightly, but they are all in the general area of Fool AFIAK. That said, my tarot knowledge has come down to a few books I read when doing research in university and I'm not an expert haha.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty into this idea now... Being outside of the system is a great way to put it - they could maybe have that be reflected mechanically with a boost when changing personas or something? I do wonder: If she was a Joker successor, would they give her Arsene like how Aigis got Orpheus?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. Sorry, I was still hung up on the casino gameplay. Yes, that is definitely a twist good guy reveal in the new area. Which does make one wonder if we will have met Kasumi in the metaverse prior to her getting a persona, a la Haru...

I mean, ATLUS and Nintendo are still close, so it is possible, if unlikely. I could see a nod to it happening if they made a Project X Zone 3 though, now that ATLUS has been merged with SEGA more directly.

Also, random thing I missed from announcements: P5R will include all the DLC from P5, plus a bonus FeMC Orpheus persona from P3P. Huzzah for ATLUS remembering she exists.
When it comes to some different name loophole, I feel like there is some sort of Fool-like word that matches Kasumi, I just can't put my finger on it.

I doubt she would inherit Arsene. At this point he feels a bit too tied to Joker, especially after Smash. Plus, something I pointed out before, at one point in the second trailer it seems like Cendrillon is talking to Kasumi like Arsene sometimes did with Joker, making the link between them feel extra strong.

If she does pull a Haru, maybe that's why she went for extra style points with the sword toss. Lacking Persona abilities would need you to find other ways to fend off your enemies effectively. I am actually starting to think that maybe what we thought was her awakening in the Kasumi trailer is not really the case.

I didn't even think about a possible nod in a hypothetical PXZ3. It's certainly possible.
 

amageish

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When it comes to some different name loophole, I feel like there is some sort of Fool-like word that matches Kasumi, I just can't put my finger on it.

I doubt she would inherit Arsene. At this point he feels a bit too tied to Joker, especially after Smash. Plus, something I pointed out before, at one point in the second trailer it seems like Cendrillon is talking to Kasumi like Arsene sometimes did with Joker, making the link between them feel extra strong.

If she does pull a Haru, maybe that's why she went for extra style points with the sword toss. Lacking Persona abilities would need you to find other ways to fend off your enemies effectively. I am actually starting to think that maybe what we thought was her awakening in the Kasumi trailer is not really the case.

I didn't even think about a possible nod in a hypothetical PXZ3. It's certainly possible.
That is fair... I suppose it'd probably be El Loco, matching tarot decks with the Consultant... Google translate puts that as "The Madman," which would be a bit too out-there for Kasumi I think? Though maybe I'm still stuck on her being Hope, as I really like that idea...

Totally fair - though I guess she'd also kind of inherently get if she can use any persona, so maybe they'd have a couple special lines of dialogue if you summon him with her... Cendrillon is abnormally talkactive by Persona standards; I 100% agree on that.

Yeah, that would make sense. I don't know; that was pretty awakening-y. Plus, looking at the subtitles again, she says "This time... I'll have Cendrillion!" which would fit if she'd be hanging around in the metaverse personaless.

Idk if a PXZ3 is likely at all, but my dream would be for it to focus on cross-series pairings. Those are always more interesting to me, plus we already know Dante/Bayonetta would be one of them given post-PXZ2 statements...
 

Rie Sonomura

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That is fair... I suppose it'd probably be El Loco, matching tarot decks with the Consultant... Google translate puts that as "The Madman," which would be a bit too out-there for Kasumi I think? Though maybe I'm still stuck on her being Hope, as I really like that idea...

Totally fair - though I guess she'd also kind of inherently get if she can use any persona, so maybe they'd have a couple special lines of dialogue if you summon him with her... Cendrillon is abnormally talkactive by Persona standards; I 100% agree on that.

Yeah, that would make sense. I don't know; that was pretty awakening-y. Plus, looking at the subtitles again, she says "This time... I'll have Cendrillion!" which would fit if she'd be hanging around in the metaverse personaless.

Idk if a PXZ3 is likely at all, but my dream would be for it to focus on cross-series pairings. Those are always more interesting to me, plus we already know Dante/Bayonetta would be one of them given post-PXZ2 statements...
PXZ2 did have one at least - KOS-MOS and Fiora.

Sadly the original director left, but if they pick a new one I’d love to see the series continue. Maybe throwing in Shulk, Elma, some Persona characters, and maybe more Nintendo characters while they’re at it (Link, Samus or Captain Falcon solo assist? Please??)
 

amageish

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PXZ2 did have one at least - KOS-MOS and Fiora.

Sadly the original director left, but if they pick a new one I’d love to see the series continue. Maybe throwing in Shulk, Elma, some Persona characters, and maybe more Nintendo characters while they’re at it (Link, Samus or Captain Falcon solo assist? Please??)
True - also Chun-Li and someone from Tekken, I think? It just seems

Oh, I didn't know the director left. That is very unfortunate. More Nintendo characters would be great, definitely. Captain Falcon would be a hilarious solo. If we get Persona, I'd also kind of like them to break the focus on bipedal characters so we can have Yukiko team up with Amaterasu from Okami. It's a lazy joke, but still.
 

EarlTamm

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I don't have much more to say, but I found some cool Kasumi art.

I know this has been more of a Joker thread discussion amageish amageish , but the BBTAG reveal accidentally dropped early(Trailer appeared on channel and was deleted, but by then tons people saved it). Not gonna link because spoilers, but the leak I saw was correct. Curious to see how you react to it.

Edit:
And the BBTAG trailer has officially dropped. I am so pleased. Curious that Mori said that there would be another Arksys announcement at some point later today.
Here is a link to the trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uilWtCIEprQ
 
Last edited:

amageish

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I don't have much more to say, but I found some cool Kasumi art.

I know this has been more of a Joker thread discussion amageish amageish , but the BBTAG reveal accidentally dropped early(Trailer appeared on channel and was deleted, but by then tons people saved it). Not gonna link because spoilers, but the leak I saw was correct. Curious to see how you react to it.

Edit:
And the BBTAG trailer has officially dropped. I am so pleased. Curious that Mori said that there would be another Arksys announcement at some point later today.
Here is a link to the trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uilWtCIEprQ
Fair! We've really speculated a tonne again haha... I'm going to have to beef up my mental fortitude to resist googling anything once the game drops in Japan.

Yeah, let's spice it up and discuss BBTAG here. I was out today, but did have a chance to watch the very end of the finals including the trailer while out and about. Overall, I'm happy! Neo is a fantastic addition (I'm kind of surprised people seem surprised by her, as her look is super iconic to the point where plenty of my non-RWBY fan friends who didn't know of Weiss/Yang/Blaze recognized Neo). The literal tank is great too - I also really like the idea of Yukiko being able to slap a tank to death. Yumi is the only kind of confusing one to me, as while I am by no means a Senran Kagura fan, I have encountered it enough to know she isn't the usual main character... I'll never object to more ice-users though! What did you think?

It turned out to be a Guilty Gear trailer, which seems to have borrowed a bit of its aesthetic from Dragon Ball FighterZ. Neat.

 
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Neo is a fantastic addition (I'm kind of surprised people seem surprised by her, as her look is super iconic to the point where plenty of my non-RWBY fan friends who didn't know of Weiss/Yang/Blaze recognized Neo)
To be fair, when it came to RWBY characters, most were expecting members of JNPR, Qrow, Adam, or Cinder.

Right now, my question whether or not that one clip suggests that all the new characters (including the ones from the previous pack) will get interactions because the last pack having no interactions kinda disappointed people
 

EarlTamm

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Fair! We've really speculated a tonne again haha... I'm going to have to beef up my mental fortitude to resist googling anything once the game drops in Japan.

Yeah, let's spice it up and discuss BBTAG here. I was out today, but did have a chance to watch the very end of the finals including the trailer while out and about. Overall, I'm happy! Neo is a fantastic addition (I'm kind of surprised people seem surprised by her, as her look is super iconic to the point where plenty of my non-RWBY fan friends who didn't know of Weiss/Yang/Blaze recognized Neo). The literal tank is great too - I also really like the idea of Yukiko being able to slap a tank to death. Yumi is the only kind of confusing one to me, as while I am by no means a Senran Kagura fan, I have encountered it enough to know she isn't the usual main character... I'll never object to more ice-users though! What did you think?

It turned out to be a Guilty Gear trailer, which seems to have borrowed a bit of its aesthetic from Dragon Ball FighterZ. Neat.

I have none, so I will be checking out all of the spoilers. That, and I recognize that spoilers just change the experience rather than ruin it.

Love the fact that Neo is in the game(Just look at my current icon). As for people not recognizing her, I am sure it's in part due to there being bigger faces. Where are you seeing these reactions? I want to see people chuck that tank. Blitztank seems to be the Plant of BBTAG, even getting a tankgang hashtag. When it comes to Yumi, apparently she is loved to death in Japan, so that's probably why she was chosen. And funny how you should mentin ice users, as this was a screenshot that was released with the announcement of more story mode stuff.
Beautiful.

The new Guilty Gear is probably going to be the most pretty game ever.
To be fair, when it came to RWBY characters, most were expecting members of JNPR, Qrow, Adam, or Cinder.

Right now, my question whether or not that one clip suggests that all the new characters (including the ones from the previous pack) will get interactions because the last pack having no interactions kinda disappointed people
There will definitely be more interactions. I imagine to save costs they decided to hold back on anymore DLC character interactions so they could do all the new lines at once. Better than recording the lines back then and having to drag them back now.

Wonder how Neo interactions are going to work, considering she's mute. Probably helped with the VA budget though.
 

amageish

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To be fair, when it came to RWBY characters, most were expecting members of JNPR, Qrow, Adam, or Cinder.

Right now, my question whether or not that one clip suggests that all the new characters (including the ones from the previous pack) will get interactions because the last pack having no interactions kinda disappointed people
Yeah, that is fair. Neo just made/makes sense to me just because she's so well known, even though Cinder or Adam would make more sense from a "letting you recreate famous RWBY battles" sense.

They're advertising interactions as part of the new content, so at least they've heard about calls for interactions. Didn't the trailer open with a Naoto/Ragna interaction too? That suggests they will be getting interactions. Hopefully we get some Naoto/Naoto dialogue.

I have none, so I will be checking out all of the spoilers. That, and I recognize that spoilers just change the experience rather than ruin it.

Love the fact that Neo is in the game(Just look at my current icon). As for people not recognizing her, I am sure it's in part due to there being bigger faces. Where are you seeing these reactions? I want to see people chuck that tank. Blitztank seems to be the Plant of BBTAG, even getting a tankgang hashtag. When it comes to Yumi, apparently she is loved to death in Japan, so that's probably why she was chosen. And funny how you should mentin ice users, as this was a screenshot that was released with the announcement of more story mode stuff.
Beautiful.

The new Guilty Gear is probably going to be the most pretty game ever.

Wonder how Neo interactions are going to work, considering she's mute. Probably helped with the VA budget though.
That is fair! I also usually don't mind spoilers, but I feel like I want to try and go through this one without them. I don't really know why, but I want to keep this one a surprise...

Yeah, that is fair. No, I meant my personal friends do recognize her, while not recognizing Blaze/Yang. Her design seems especially famous? Like, I've seen her constantly at conventions. Yes, throwing the tank around is good. I also now really want Rise in the game, so she can hug then reject the tank. The Tank even matched the Plant's standard of being the one character not leaked in the reveal presentation!

MORE STORY MODE STUFF?!?!?!?! I missed that, but THAT IS FANTASTIC. I don't know about how others felt, but I found the comic writing of the story mode perfectly on-point. Ragna made a great straight man to the zany actions of the other casts - one of my friends still regularly quotes Aigis' "warning shot" routine.

Yeah, ArcSys has been kicking *** in the aesthetic department lately. DBZ looks fantastic. Granblue looks great and the RPG mode makes it instantly more appealing to me. Guilty Gear has always looked great, but looks every greater now.

I'm hoping they spent the VA budget they saved on Neo having every character react to her muteness.
 

EarlTamm

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Yeah, that is fair. Neo just made/makes sense to me just because she's so well known, even though Cinder or Adam would make more sense from a "letting you recreate famous RWBY battles" sense.

They're advertising interactions as part of the new content, so at least they've heard about calls for interactions. Didn't the trailer open with a Naoto/Ragna interaction too? That suggests they will be getting interactions. Hopefully we get some Naoto/Naoto dialogue.
True, but in a game all about teaming up, Cinder and Adam have been historically bad partners. Maybe that is why Neo was chosen.

Yeah, it seems like new interactions will be a thing. I do hope this gives them the opportunity to add some new interactions with the old characters. Still shocked that Jin and Weiss have no interaction(Though it seems they will be interacting in the story this time around).
That is fair! I also usually don't mind spoilers, but I feel like I want to try and go through this one without them. I don't really know why, but I want to keep this one a surprise...

Yeah, that is fair. No, I meant my personal friends do recognize her, while not recognizing Blaze/Yang. Her design seems especially famous? Like, I've seen her constantly at conventions. Yes, throwing the tank around is good. I also now really want Rise in the game, so she can hug then reject the tank. The Tank even matched the Plant's standard of being the one character not leaked in the reveal presentation!

MORE STORY MODE STUFF?!?!?!?! I missed that, but THAT IS FANTASTIC. I don't know about how others felt, but I found the comic writing of the story mode perfectly on-point. Ragna made a great straight man to the zany actions of the other casts - one of my friends still regularly quotes Aigis' "warning shot" routine.

Yeah, ArcSys has been kicking *** in the aesthetic department lately. DBZ looks fantastic. Granblue looks great and the RPG mode makes it instantly more appealing to me. Guilty Gear has always looked great, but looks every greater now.

I'm hoping they spent the VA budget they saved on Neo having every character react to her muteness.
Understandable. Just let it be known, I will be looking into this sort of stuff when info starts coming from the Japanese release. I will put it all in a spoiler tab of course and ask for others to do the same, but figured I should say this well beforehand.

I think that is in part due in part to the nature of her concept, which is rather interesting. At the beginning, a great design and a simple role is all she had, which makes her inclusion in BBTAG before anyone else rather intriguing. And yeah, the Tank was not leaked despite the other 3 being leaked. Some things are too surreal to be leaked.

Yeah, it was a side thing announced. Going off the screen shot of the ice gang in action, I have the feeling that things will be a bit more humerus and varied in interaction this time around, which will be great to see. I would love to see the world of BBTAG become more of it's own thing rather than just some cross dimensional tag tourney. I just wonder from where they are going to start the story, considering all the different endings we saw. My hope is that we see some form of continuation of the P4 ending, because my god.

That final clash shot in the Guilty Gear trailer was probably one of the highlights of this entire EVO. And not only are ArkSys making great looking fighting games, but I am also loving the style of River City Girls.

It would be hilarious if Neo, despite being mute, has the most interactions in the game. And that is before you consider trying to implement Neo interactions into the story mode.

Also, I will be legitimately upset if there is no Neo sign gag. It has to be done.
 

amageish

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True, but in a game all about teaming up, Cinder and Adam have been historically bad partners. Maybe that is why Neo was chosen.

Yeah, it seems like new interactions will be a thing. I do hope this gives them the opportunity to add some new interactions with the old characters. Still shocked that Jin and Weiss have no interaction(Though it seems they will be interacting in the story this time around).

Understandable. Just let it be known, I will be looking into this sort of stuff when info starts coming from the Japanese release. I will put it all in a spoiler tab of course and ask for others to do the same, but figured I should say this well beforehand.

I think that is in part due in part to the nature of her concept, which is rather interesting. At the beginning, a great design and a simple role is all she had, which makes her inclusion in BBTAG before anyone else rather intriguing. And yeah, the Tank was not leaked despite the other 3 being leaked. Some things are too surreal to be leaked.

Yeah, it was a side thing announced. Going off the screen shot of the ice gang in action, I have the feeling that things will be a bit more humerus and varied in interaction this time around, which will be great to see. I would love to see the world of BBTAG become more of it's own thing rather than just some cross dimensional tag tourney. I just wonder from where they are going to start the story, considering all the different endings we saw. My hope is that we see some form of continuation of the P4 ending, because my god.

That final clash shot in the Guilty Gear trailer was probably one of the highlights of this entire EVO. And not only are ArkSys making great looking fighting games, but I am also loving the style of River City Girls.

It would be hilarious if Neo, despite being mute, has the most interactions in the game. And that is before you consider trying to implement Neo interactions into the story mode.

Also, I will be legitimately upset if there is no Neo sign gag. It has to be done.
That is also very true, though I don't know how much CTB has cared about lore thus far haha.

Sounds good! We'll see if I actually resist it anyway. There is a very real chance I'll cave and just go for it - depending mostly on how long it takes for the localization to occur!

Ahhhhh, interesting. I haven't actually watched any BTS stuff from RWBY - or any of RWBY Chibi, even though I'm aware it's supposed to be fantastic. I like all the ice cream puns. I'm suddenly disappointed no headlines for BBTAG's DLC mentioned "Getting the Scoop" on the DLC...

That would make sense, yeah. It'd be nice to see more vignettes and less Hunger Games? It could just be in the multiverse where everyone lives together, without an exact story... I would looooooove to see the P4 ending continue though, as the potential for that was amazing. The other endings were all interesting, but that one was the most insane. The RWBY one was kind of odd, honestly - I almost wonder if it was written by Rooster Teeth and there was general miscommunication about how the inter-dimensional crossover was supposed to work.

That's fair! It was a great moment. River City Girls is being made by Wayfoward I believe, but it does look super pretty. I love the music the most though and would probably buy any game if the OST was that rocking.

It'd be amazing for sure. I'd be kind of disappointed if most people just talk as if she had said something. I feel like they should either shut the other person up to match her or have some sort of "Well. You're the quiet type, eh?" quips.

They need a sign gag at least in the new story mode sections. I don't know if it'd work on her sprite?
 

EarlTamm

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Going to tackle these on a more individual basis, because just going separate paragraphs is getting rather confusing now.
Sounds good! We'll see if I actually resist it anyway. There is a very real chance I'll cave and just go for it - depending mostly on how long it takes for the localization to occur!
I can usually only ever go about a week before I cave.
Ahhhhh, interesting. I haven't actually watched any BTS stuff from RWBY - or any of RWBY Chibi, even though I'm aware it's supposed to be fantastic. I like all the ice cream puns. I'm suddenly disappointed no headlines for BBTAG's DLC mentioned "Getting the Scoop" on the DLC...
Give RWBY Chibi a watch when you can. The show is very easy to binge, much like RWBY itself.
That would make sense, yeah. It'd be nice to see more vignettes and less Hunger Games? It could just be in the multiverse where everyone lives together, without an exact story... I would looooooove to see the P4 ending continue though, as the potential for that was amazing. The other endings were all interesting, but that one was the most insane. The RWBY one was kind of odd, honestly - I almost wonder if it was written by Rooster Teeth and there was general miscommunication about how the inter-dimensional crossover was supposed to work.
I don't think Rooster Teeth had any impact on that ending, but I do agree that it is odd. Out of all of them, it felt the most like there was going to be some sort of continuation, mostly because of what Hazama did at the end. It's clear he's up to something, we just don't know what. As for a Persona 4 continuation, I just want to see interactions and possibly more characters students/ Just make every high school AU fan the happiest people on the planet.
That's fair! It was a great moment. River City Girls is being made by Wayfoward I believe, but it does look super pretty. I love the music the most though and would probably buy any game if the OST was that rocking.
That is being made by WayForward, but ArySys is still involved. Don't know how they are contributing though.
They need a sign gag at least in the new story mode sections. I don't know if it'd work on her sprite?
I can understand how it could be hard to put onto a sprite(Not the sign itself, but the text on it), but having it actually appear in the story feels a bit too silly. That is, unless gag endings return. I hope they do return, because that felt like something the story was sorely missing.

Actually, I could see the Neo sign being an emote of sorts for the lobby, which I am sure will be filled with chibi tanks as far as the eye an see in the first week.

Also, something of note, two of the mystery characters for 2.0 are likely going to Blazblue reps. Any hopes?
 

amageish

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Going to tackle these on a more individual basis, because just going separate paragraphs is getting rather confusing now.
Sure! That definitely makes sense.

I can usually only ever go about a week before I cave.
That's fair. I can last about a month. I will stay spoiler-free when games release worldwide though. I still don't know how Three Houses will end...

Give RWBY Chibi a watch when you can. The show is very easy to binge, much like RWBY itself.
Yeah, it's been on my watch-list for a while now. I'll hopefully get to it soon.

I don't think Rooster Teeth had any impact on that ending, but I do agree that it is odd. Out of all of them, it felt the most like there was going to be some sort of continuation, mostly because of what Hazama did at the end. It's clear he's up to something, we just don't know what. As for a Persona 4 continuation, I just want to see interactions and possibly more characters students/ Just make every high school AU fan the happiest people on the planet.
It probably is just a coincidence, but there were some odd things that seemed exclusive to RWBY characters. Like, they also regularly have subtitles and the voice lines not quite match - the meaning is always the same, but the phrasing is not, as if things were being translated by different people different times... I definitely agree it sets itself up for a continuation in a vague general way. P4 was just maximum fanservice, but I like the idea of it haha.

That is being made by WayForward, but ArySys is still involved. Don't know how they are contributing though.
I assume they're just giving them the rights to the River City Ransom IP?

I can understand how it could be hard to put onto a sprite(Not the sign itself, but the text on it), but having it actually appear in the story feels a bit too silly. That is, unless gag endings return. I hope they do return, because that felt like something the story was sorely missing.
Given the pudding ending, I was thinking the sign wouldn't be too silly in a story mode.

Actually, I could see the Neo sign being an emote of sorts for the lobby, which I am sure will be filled with chibi tanks as far as the eye an see in the first week.
Oh, yes, Neo being an emote seems obligatory. And oh goodness, yes, there will be a chibi tank army. I will not be swayed though!

Also, something of note, two of the mystery characters for 2.0 are likely going to Blazblue reps. Any hopes?
Oh, interesting. I was expecting it to be spread out across the other franchises pretty evenly, so this is a surprise to me. One of the characters with puppets (so, Celica, Carl, or Relius) could be fun to put up against the Persona cast, though idk how they'd balance them... Otherwise, I'm honestly the least familiar with the story of BB and don't have a huge attachment to any characters (at least compared to RWBY, Persona, and Under-Night). What are your hopes?
 
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