The New, Official JigglyPuff Match-Up Thread (Updated 10/14/08)

[illinialex24]

OK, this is really annoying me. Guess what the Ike boards think of the Puff matchup?

Ike advantage: 70:30

All I thought was "LOL!"

Don't worry, all the numbers there suck. They all are biased numbers that are like the Fox boards. They say they only have 4 truly bad to okay matchups (60-40 disadvantage or so), and they have Snake at even numbers as well as some other bad matchups.

 

[Amide]

I think it's dumb that people have such obviously biased numbers.

By the way, up for some wifi illnialex? I wanna see your puff
=D

 

[illinialex24]

I think it's dumb that people have such obviously biased numbers.

By the way, up for some wifi illnialex? I wanna see your puff
=D

I can't right now sorry. I can't generally Brawl until like 10 hours from now lol. And I'm gonna try to ask them why

 

[illinialex24]

I posted this on the Ike boards:

Why are the numbers for Jigglypuff, MK, Snake and some other characters so biased here.

MK has the best aerial game in Brawl, and a great ground game. At Ike's speed and range, he doesn't stand more than a 35-65 chance on him (I don't use MK or Ike but I've seen the matchup).

I don't know why you guys think you are even with Snake either. Snake really can dominate Ike at almost any area, grenade camping with U-tilts as well as bairs against a slow character is dangerous. It should be 40-60.

And Jigglypuff. Besides his nair, which still comes out too slow most of the time, once Jigglypuff is in on Ike, its essentially playing Melee (just a exaggerated metaphor but still). He is fairly easy to gimp as the puff and easy to rack damage upon. The real question is: can you get in on Ike. I think she has an advantage here (and so do most Jigglypuff's, mainly because some users have never lost to an Ike in a tournament). I know that its fairly hard for a Jigglypuff to successfully get in close range on an Ike mainly because his aerials can be interrupted at around he same time Jigglypuff's can (I have rough estimates for this right now, I'm getting accurate frame data right now including hit-stun), the hitboxes come out way later than those respective moves. So essentially, if a Jigglypuff screws up consistently, it gives you guys a huge advantage because you can punish it pretty strongly but a good Jigglypuff should not screw up. As far as grab releases, he doesn't have much on Jigglypuff, only an Aether. And Jigglypuff is the better grabber in this matchup, and she can set it up to more. A good bthrow can set up a gimp, and although not consistent, her grabs (although her range sucks) do more damage, can lead to more and so I'm wondering why this matchup is put so heavily in Ike's favor.

Finally, spiking and with his Aether wall (where he B-ups backwards and then re-grabs the ledge to essentially spike the opponent) really do nothing on a good Jigglypuff.

So essentially, we have a matchup like this:

Far Range: Slightly in Ike,his B-side being better than rollout, because at best they cancel out.
Mid-Range: Ike's, because his aerials do have an advantage but because of their delayed hitboxes and the like, Jigglypuff can still retaliate with good shield-grabs and well timed bairs, if she times the bair perfectly (so fairly strong advantage to Ike here)
Close Range: Jigglypuff by a large amount. She can essentially hit Ike for large amounts of damage here.

And since both characters have high potential to kill early (this is a matchup where neither character generally goes over 100%) in this matchup, and thats generally Ike's biggest strength, I'm wondering why this matchup is so lopsided.

 

[Amide]

I just trolled how biased their matchup thread is. The funny thing is, I think Jiggs>>Ike. They think Ike>>Jiggs. Huuuuuuuuuge difference here.

 

[illinialex24]

I just trolled how biased their matchup thread is. The funny thing is, I think Jiggs>>Ike. They think Ike>>Jiggs. Huuuuuuuuuge difference here.

1 issue. Your gonna get flamed for it. He doesn't have massive lag. He has massive startup lag and I posted that. Most of his moves take a while to come out but as far as before he can react again, only a few frames generally after the hitbox, which isn't very punishable.

 

[Amide]

OK, since when doesn't Ike have lag? But i did change what I said, you're right. I just don't think thay should get away with calling it a massive advantage.

 

[illinialex24]

OK, since when doesn't Ike have lag? But i did change what I said, you're right. I just don't think thay should get away with calling it a massive advantage.

Yeah, just be careful what you say or else people won't credit your opinion at all. I've had it happen to me when I was pretty bad and you really just have to make sure you specify and make sure nothing you say is stupid.

 

[TheStig]

update or did this thread fail?

 

[illinialex24]

update or did this thread fail?

It died a long time ago. Chaco left these boards around a month ago. I'm gonna restart stage discussion in 2 weeks time.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

aw, that's unfortunate, because this seemed like such a good idea. Should we try and restart this idea again under the ruling of someone else?

And stage discussion sounds like a great idea. I really want to get into that myself.

 

[illinialex24]

aw, that's unfortunate, because this seemed like such a good idea. Should we try and restart this idea again under the ruling of someone else?

And stage discussion sounds like a great idea. I really want to get into that myself.

Both are good and I am going to take over both but in a bit.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Awesome! Sounds great.

 

[illinialex24]

Awesome! Sounds great.

Sweet I'm glad you're back.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Thanks, man.

 

[Popertop]

We should really start up this matchup thread.
I wanna discuss Low tier matchups as I will be entering a few low tier tourneys soon.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

OK, this is really annoying me. Guess what the Ike boards think of the Puff matchup?

Ike advantage: 70:30

All I thought was "LOL!"

Everyone who hasn't played a good Jigglypuff thinks she sucks. They have no idea that they lose a stock every time they go offstage

Also, MK isn't that amazing against Jigglypuff. You just need to play defensivley and smartly.
He doesn't own you in the air, although it's not an in your favor fight. Pound prevents getting *****. 55/45 MK, or 60/40 MK.

 

[Popertop]

So what tier do y'all think Jiggs is in?
Does she really deserve Low?
I don't think so.
What's your opinion?

 

[PND]

On her own merits and against most of the cast, she's at the mid to higher end of low tier.

However she has almost unwinnable match ups with Snake, Olimar, and G&W, and REALLY hard times with DeDeDe, Falco, and Marth.

She won't escape bottom tier just because of those matchups, but that doesn't mean she's completely useless as a secondary. She does fairly well against ROBs, Diddys, and MKs, and fairly even with the rest of the cast (with some notable disadvantages and advantages sprinkled in)

 

[Popertop]

well then.
amazing.
I don't think D3 is that bad, in the end it becomes a guessing game of pound/bair vs shieldgrab/bair

 

[PND]

DeDeDe has two moves to beat us. Bair and Utilt.

Everything else we can deal with handily.

 

[Popertop]

oh yeah Utilt.
:|
I really hate D3.
Like no lie. I hate him.

 

[PND]

I love DeDeDe. Not in Brawl, but in general. I hate him in Brawl.
I generally hate MK. On all levels.

That being said, I play a bit of both of them. Then again, I play half the roster.

 

[Popertop]

Yeah I play MK too LOLOlololOLOOLL

I just hate shields in Brawl. Too good.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

anyone else find yoshi harder than mk, if used right of course. yoshi camp owns jigglies

 

[illinialex24]

anyone else find yoshi harder than mk, if used right of course. yoshi camp owns jigglies

Nope. They are around the same.

 

[PND]

I find Yoshi way easier.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Luigi isn't too good either. He kills you SO fast. Better MK or yoshi than Luigi.

 

[illinialex24]

Luigi isn't too good either. He kills you SO fast. Better MK or yoshi than Luigi.

Yeah but you can ledge stall him soooo well.... Planking FTW

 

[Popertop]

You can also gimp his recovery.
Have you found what goes through missle yet?

 

[PND]

Rest does.

 

[Popertop]

....
I just imagined the most amazing thing happening.

 

[TheStig]

someone needs to make a new match up thread (which would be like the 3 third someone haas tried)

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

someone needs to make a new match up thread (which would be like the 3 third someone haas tried)

yes and thank you. I would really like someone to make a great one that can be easily updated and has everything in one place. It would really help me.

these are the matchups I am very shure about:

jiggz-mK
40-60

jiggz-gannon
60-40

jiggz-link
70-30

jiggz wario
35-65

jiggz-G&W
35-65

 

[Mmac]

Wasn't illinialex going to make a new one?

 

[PND]

Vs Game & Watch is way worse than 65, especially with bucket cancelling.

It should be:

G&W : Jiggs
85 : LOL

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Yeah but you can ledge stall him soooo well.... Planking FTW

I forgot about planking. Mostly because I hate it.

Have you found what goes through missle yet?

Rest does.

Don't you die if you do this offstage (aka when he actually uses it.)

yes and thank you. I would really like someone to make a great one that can be easily updated and has everything in one place. It would really help me.

these are the matchups I am very shure about:

jiggz-mK
40-60

jiggz-gannon
60-40

jiggz-link
70-30

jiggz wario
35-65

jiggz-G&W
35-65

Really? I've always found GaW much harder. Like 20/80. I can't find anything you can do outside of mindgames.

 

[Veril]

The Jiggs to G&W matchup is a vertical asymptote.

 

[illinialex24]

You can also gimp his recovery.
Have you found what goes through missle yet?

Just try to attack it during startup or pressure him to use it early and hit him during its ending. All you can do.

Rest does.

Yes, do not try to fair through the damaging part of it. YOU WILL trade hits.

someone needs to make a new match up thread (which would be like the 3 third someone haas tried)

yes and thank you. I would really like someone to make a great one that can be easily updated and has everything in one place. It would really help me.

these are the matchups I am very shure about:

jiggz-mK
40-60

jiggz-gannon
60-40

jiggz-link
70-30

jiggz wario
35-65

jiggz-G&W
35-65

Sorry but no. Jigglypuff MK is truth, and Ganondorf Jigglypuff is in the right ballpark, but she is definitely 20-80 on G&W and better on Wario. Not much, but 40-60. Just be careful to avoid his F-smash.

Wasn't illinialex going to make a new one?

I am trying to get control of the thread right now.

Vs Game & Watch is way worse than 65, especially with bucket cancelling.

It should be:

G&W : Jiggs
85 : LOL

Yes.

The Jiggs to G&W matchup is a vertical asymptote.

Exactly.

 

[Xsyven]

Unstuck. Chaco isn't here to update anymore, so illinialex24 is gonna take over.

illinialex24, it'd be best if you linked the new thread to this one-- just for historical purposes.