The NEW Marth

[danieljosebatista]

This topic has sort of been touched upon in other threads, but given the goal of the Marth community I felt we should have a better organized thread to discuss it. We all want Marth on top again. Slowly but surely good Marth players are emerging again. What are the tactics of the NEW Marth? In a metagame dominated by speed and overwhelming shieldpressure, what will the top Marth look like in today's game? What are the most important tactics, and what are the most important changes that Marth mains need to make in response to the changing metagame?

 

[Dart!]

Consistent spacing and fluid movements. Nothing wasted, precision.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Spamming Fsmash and roll

 

[danieljosebatista]

^lol 2001 Marth

 

[PolishSmash]

 

[danieljosebatista]

Well at least Dart contributed something useful. It's definitely true that precision is more important nowadays than before

 

[PolishSmash]

Well at least Dart contributed something useful. It's definitely true that precision is more important nowadays than before

What do you guys mean exactly by precision? Can you elaborate on that a little more? Thanks And I would also add: Perfect Edgeguarding covering all possible options

 

[Mahie]

It means that if you whiff or get a sourspot instead of a tipper you can get ****ed really hard. That kind of thing should be avoided as much as possible with Marth.

 

[MasterShake]

I think abusing reverse hitboxes and certain sourspot hits is also the way to go. So much of marth's old stuff doesn't work because people know how to DI it. It would be real dangerous if they had to guess and eat a huge combo or really bad position for guessing wrong.

 

[danieljosebatista]

I think abusing reverse hitboxes and certain sourspot hits is also the way to go. So much of marth's old stuff doesn't work because people know how to DI it. It would be real dangerous if they had to guess and eat a huge combo or really bad position for guessing wrong.

Interesting, what sourspots and reverse hitboxes do you think are effective? I Personally don't usually abuse those with Marth.

 

[Blistering Speed]

- More consistent and co-ordinated punishes, Marth has the capacity for it. You all suck at tech chasing, comboing and (to a lesser extent) edgeguarding.
- NOT RUNNING AROUND SPAMMING GRAB ALL YOU ****ERS DO THIS AND YOU HAVE A ****ING SWORD WHY ARE YOU USING YOUR ARM ****.
- Patience, more specifically learning when you are capable of launching an effective approach (rarely, Marth is inherently defensive).
- Taking advantage of conditioning stuff.
- Coping with pressure/spacing being cracked. Again, this does not equate to spamming grab.
- Learning THE EXACT RANGE, START UP & COOLDOWN OF EACH MOVE AND ITS APPLICABLE SITUATIONS AND APPLYING THEM EFFECTIVELY AS A SPACING TOOL. This is more complex than occasionally throwing in a D Tilt.

PeePee's Marth is probably the best example I can think of the NEW Marth. That thing is beautiful.

 

[Mahie]

Interesting, what sourspots and reverse hitboxes do you think are effective? I Personally don't usually abuse those with Marth.

I personnally like stuff like :

Uthrow > Reverse Fair > Something

Reverse Fair x2 > Tipper Fsmash

Sometimes I try to reverse Fsmash, it's pretty useless but fun to do in freeplay none the less, if you run right next to someone and fsmash the other way it should connect.

The reverse/sourspot Dair is really cute but really hard to use, or it could be just me sucking at it I don't know. Anyone else uses it?

 

[Juushichi]

The willingness to throw out a "random" fsmash, ala Azen.

 

[ArcNatural]

The willingness to upthrow, walk a tiny bit, fsmash in opposite direction to Fsmash tipper people from like 55-70% to set up edgeguards rather than being silly and try to combo from uptilt upair when your near edges. The only two stages your NOT sufficiently close enough to an edge is Dreamland and FD when your in the center.

 

[PolishSmash]

Mahie thanks for the explanation. Can anyone explain to me what reverse hitboxes and sourspots are? Blistering Speed what do you mean by conditioning stuff? (Great pointers btw) Blistering Speed I totally agree about the setting up for edge guards earlier. Marth has a great edgeguarding game which should be abused in today’s metagame. People are too focused on trying to do flashy combos when they can just set up a good edgeguard to get the stock.

 

[MasterShake]

Example of me doing a sourspot uair in a combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFD8zBCmBFM#t=2m41s Sourspot uair is the future! And both sourspot and turn-around utilt.

polish, Marth has like 3 different properties on most of his attacks: tipper, mid hit, and sourspot. Tipper is the strongest, sourspot weakest, but most of them can be used interchangebly for very different situations (not fsmash lol).

It's not really a reverse hitbox, it's when you hit the opponent with your character facing backwards. It's not really done with marth as often as it is with like space animals and falcon. That reverse ken combo that's getting popular is a good example.

 

[PolishSmash]

Example of me doing a sourspot uair in a combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFD8zBCmBFM#t=2m41s Sourspot uair is the future! And both sourspot and turn-around utilt.

polish, Marth has like 3 different properties on most of his attacks: tipper, mid hit, and sourspot. Tipper is the strongest, sourspot weakest, but most of them can be used interchangebly for very different situations (not fsmash lol).

It's not really a reverse hitbox, it's when you hit the opponent with your character facing backwards. It's not really done with marth as often as it is with like space animals and falcon. That reverse ken combo that's getting popular is a good example.

Oh Ok thanks for clearing it up for me man, and that reverse Ken combo looks so cool. I noticed M2K doing it alot. And would Marth's bair count as a reverse hitbox since he's hitting someone facing backwards?

 

[F A N G]

How do you actually use his reverse hitboxes?

 

[Deleted member]

what are the most important changes that Marth mains need to make in response to the changing metagame?

marths now should be focusing on controlling air space to eliminate options to set up kills. a lot of the newer marths really struggle for kills now that people are better at evading his edge game. just because you can dial-a-combo doesn't mean you always should.

 

[Archangel]

spaced Neutral B's...the new shield pressure

 

[PolishSmash]

spaced Neutral B's...the new shield pressure

Interesting...

 

[Archangel]

Don't try it often but if you can't hit a person or grab them but you can safely do it...yeah you can deplete the hell out of a shield.

 

[Niko45]

Reverse fair to dair feels really situational when I go for it. I don't think the % window on it is very big.

Reverse fair to fsmash however feels extremely practical and works in a large window against FFers who have managed to live far too long (uthrow rev. fair fsmash on a platform true combos Falco at 160)

 

[OverLord]

Yeah due to PAL versione I often do revFair to Fsmash, it works wonderful.

But actually I think you can revFair to Dair/Bair way more often than just in a small window, it's like a feeling after the U-throw.

 

[danieljosebatista]

Example of me doing a sourspot uair in a combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFD8zBCmBFM#t=2m41s Sourspot uair is the future! And both sourspot and turn-around utilt..

I really like that, will have to use up air better.

 

[Planet Piss]

Uthrow > reverse fair > WL > reverse fair > WL > dair /stock

COOS (Counter oos)

Dancing sword combos

FF uair > Jump uair > FF uair > Jump uair > FF sour uair > SHFFL uair (x4) > Tipper usmash

It's almost 2012 guys. Come on.