The NEW falco match-up thread, MK time, week 2.

[Yojimbo]

G&W's moveset is just silly, in all seriousness. And it confuses the typical player who doesn't study the metagame. but since I'm picking him up as an alt, I suppose I can kill two birds with one stone with this thread.

Teching the downthrow for sure. You'll be punished everytime if you don't learn to do that. Aerial entries work against my friend's G&W most of the time. When I figure out more, I'll add it to the thread. All I've got right now. =/

 

[SpeedAcE]

G&W has every follow up for a failed Dthrow tech covered. If you roll left or right he will just grab you again. He could also immediately dsmash. Standing up isn't encouraged and get-up attacks are shield grabbed.

If you get caught in a grab chain, mix it up. Roll left, then right, right again, then stand up. Don't have a pattern.

 

[§witch]

No, he can't regrab you after a roll.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Yes, he can. Also, it goes without saying that you should try to tech the dthrow each time.

 

[Beetle Juice]

g&a doesn't have any good grab reach at all, even if he jab cancels there is still a chance to avoid it with a spot dodge.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

65:35 for GaW imo.

And I'm quite sure that GaW can regrab Falco with a dashgrab

 

[§witch]

He has slow running speed, and a slow grab with horrid range. I don't think so.

 

[Beetle Juice]

g&a really have to grab in order to win, but a grab on falco at high %s is a kill pretty much. timing to tech would take a lot of practice and it gets harder the higher your % is so who knows when to roll when g&a anyways.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Besides gaW has many options after his dthrow. He can use fsmash, dtilt or fsmash and I don't think Falco can roll out of a fsmash...

 

[§witch]

If he couldn't why wouldn't they only use dsmash? Dsmash is faster and has just as much range. Teching it doesn't get harder at higher %s. And once you get the timing down it isn't hard at all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fsmash has better range than dsmash and a longer lasting hitbox

 

[§witch]

The range is the same. But for what they want dsmash is better.

 

[Neb]

Yeah, G&W can re-grab out of a tech-chase, or run away/shield if you wake-up attack, then scurry back and re-grab again during the animation lag, though he could easily throw out any of his other moves instead, free hit. I'm sure you guys know the penalties for not teching, but anyway, your best route against a smart G&W is to mix-up your dthrow retreats, a lot.

Don't be predictable cause you'll get spanked for it. Haven't tested this or anything, but its an idea- Tech the dthrow but don't roll, then quickly Phantasm in a safe direction, he probably won't be expecting it. Or tech (don't roll), then whip out your reflector. If it works, don't spam it, G&W could catch-on and shield, then swat you with punishment.

From my own experience, the reflector is incredibly annoying in this match-up. It has lots of range, but a bit of lag. Don't abuse it, but its nice to pitch it out there when bair and dtilt gets predictable.

Hope that helps, guys.

 

[§witch]

I was waiting for you dude. Thanks for the input.

 

[Neb]

I was waiting for you dude. Thanks for the input.

lol, no problem.

 

[Sethlon]

Oh and he can get Footstool Combo'd as shown on a video by Tommy_G.

I tried this on Hylian's G&W, but he just upB'd out before I could footstool him.

Eh, might as well throw something else out while I'm here.

Don't let him get underneath you. His upB/nair will eat through anything you try to counter with, and nair lasts long enough to hit you even if you airdodge. Hylian likes to upB through stages that you can do so on (delfino/Hylian cruise), and even if you block it the dair afterwards is pretty much unpunishable.

Bait the bucket, especially at high percents. Only shoot one laser at a time, and when they bucket throw out a phantasm. That'll set up for an uair/airdodge baited uair-bair for the stock finish.

 

[Beetle Juice]

lmao at Hylian cruise

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hylian Cruise?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Yeah, G&W can re-grab out of a tech-chase, or run away/shield if you wake-up attack, then scurry back and re-grab again during the animation lag, though he could easily throw out any of his other moves instead, free hit. I'm sure you guys know the penalties for not teching, but anyway, your best route against a smart G&W is to mix-up your dthrow retreats, a lot.

Don't be predictable cause you'll get spanked for it. Haven't tested this or anything, but its an idea- Tech the dthrow but don't roll, then quickly Phantasm in a safe direction, he probably won't be expecting it. Or tech (don't roll), then whip out your reflector. If it works, don't spam it, G&W could catch-on and shield, then swat you with punishment.

From my own experience, the reflector is incredibly annoying in this match-up. It has lots of range, but a bit of lag. Don't abuse it, but its nice to pitch it out there when bair and dtilt gets predictable.

Hope that helps, guys.

So this is the second its been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure you can't just tech G&W's D-throw since it forces you to lay down. I think your only option is to tech roll. Don't forget that you can choose which side of G&W you land on.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

save save save save your upsmash against any light character, like GW. meaning the only time ur using upsmash is when they are above like 120

 

[§witch]

I still use it with the gaitling combo.

 

[Neb]

So this is the second its been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure you can't just tech G&W's D-throw since it forces you to lay down. I think your only option is to tech roll. Don't forget that you can choose which side of G&W you land on.

Nah, you can. Just tech and don't move, your thinking Snake. While he lays you down, G&W throws you down, which gives you the option of teching it.

 

[person701]

So let's see here, what does Falco have on G&W.

-Few ranged attacks that beat G&W's
-Laser tricking baiting
-Reflector
-.....

What G&W has on Falco's:

-****ing annoying air moves
-The dreaded bucket v.v
-Forceful approach
-A wicked D-throw

The odds are definatly on G&W favor. 70-30 G&W IMO. Now if we look at this from the start of a match this is how I'd see it (on FD): Falco can't start his usual lasering cause of the bucket, but he can start laser tricks. The G&W would start pressure, Falco'd be forced to start moving in. At this point, it's a matter of finding small holes to punish. The D-throw from G&W would end bad most of the time, but unpredictability would assist a tad. Can Falco CG G&W? I forgot >.<

To me, looks as if Falco has to start strong and stay strong. If not, it'd be hard to pick your pace back up. But definatly tricking to pull out that bucket and keep distance from G&W would help.

More input: If G&W starts approaching with B-air, could you just laser and cancel it by landing? I mean, sounds good.

ASLO: Please note I haven't fought a good G&W for a time. This is off what I remeber and what seems to be the probs.

FINALLY: Hylian cruise? lmao.

*Rainbow Cruise

 

[§witch]

I start with an IAP, so I'm already in close. That's not a worry. He outpriorotizes and out ranges us in the air. I think we can wrap this up. 65-35 G&W's favour?

 

[B-Mon]

Indeed. Skill shall further decide this match-up.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I don't see what's so wrong with G&W... He's so **** light so he dies from U-Smash pretty easily. Hell, at high percentages, U-Tilt is viable as well.

CG to Dair can do about 50-60% DMG from 0% if you know what you're doing. F-Tilt, Bair him some more like 3 or 4 times then U-Smash. -_-

 

[§witch]

Read the whole thread if you don't get it.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Um, shield his aerials and combo lasers into moves. >_> G&W shouldn't pose a threat at all to Falco.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Um, shield his aerials and combo lasers into moves. >_> G&W shouldn't pose a threat at all to Falco.

Shield his aerials? You can't shield his turtle all day

 

[Foxfear]

Shield his aerials? You can't shield his turtle all day

Yea his bair kinda eats your shield away...

 

[KosukeKGA]

Grab him then.

 

[clowsui]

You can't grab through the turtle....I've tried, and it gets you more snapper

 

[bluebolt]

if we do one for olimar, we dont need to put much since reflector reflects pikimn rofl

 

[§witch]

Oh man, I wish it was that easy. "WTF? HES USING THE BEST APPROACH IN THE GAME?!?!?!?! **** THAT! *GRABS*"
.....................................

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seriously, if GaWs bair could be shieldgrabbed so easily, he'd drop on the tiers

 

[Neb]

Seriously, if GaWs bair could be shieldgrabbed so easily, he'd drop on the tiers

Could say the same if Falco's lasers where nerfed like Samus' missiles, .

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Actually I was referring to the guy, who said you could just shield the turtle

 

[Neb]

Actually I was referring to the guy, who said you could just shield the turtle

Oh I know, I was just saying, :|.
But anyway, the only time your gonna get a shield grab, is if the G&W is dumb, and ends the bair right in front of you without retreating. It has really low cool-down if DI'd correctly.

 

[Ayaz18]

Actually I was referring to the guy, who said you could just shield the turtle

you can shield grab his Bair, it's just really freggin hard

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It only works if the bair is bad spaced