The NEW falco match-up thread, MK time, week 2.

[§witch]

K, well, the old one is really dead, and not very completed, and we need some good non-bread related discussion. Basically, it won't be quite weekly, cause that will take almost a year, but once we feel it's been well covered. So without further adu, let's start.

Week One Mr. Game and Watch​

I figured we might as well start with one of our harder match-ups.
Disadvantages vs G&W
~Light, therefore harder to CG.
~Can duck/bucket our lasers.
~Has crazy fast, spammable, and EXTREMELY strong smashes, dsmash sweetspotted KOs at 90%.
~Fast, long range, spammable tilts.
~Arguably one of the best approaches in brawl (his bair.)
~Can attack after his up b.
~Can dthrow to dsmash, we can tech it though.
~Possibly gimp us fair/bair/dair.

Advantages vs G&W
~He's one of THE lightest characters in brawl, we can definitely abuse that.
~We may not be able to CG him too far, but we can still get a good 60%, from 2-3 throws to gaitling to nair.
~Baiting him to pull out his laggy bucket can prove to be a good mindgame, most good G&Ws know not to pull it out unless they know they won't be punished for it, meaning only use lasers to approach.
~IAP is our friend here, if he's ducking we can IAP right through him.
~We have fairly good spacing, utilise ftilt, shine, IAP, QDA (quick dash attack) and lasers to keep control of the match.
~His main non-SH bair approach is making the opponent approach into his danger zone. We can't camp lasers due to his bucket. Keep good spacing as mentioned above.

70:30 at most, IMO.
I mean, you gotta look at it overall. The meat of Falco's metagame is shutdown by crouching and the bucket. Once G&W hits 30's and can no longer be CG'd, he can be campy by ignoring the blaster to draw Falco inside, once inside, G&W out-prioritizes the majority of Falco's moves, and can really punish.

Disadvantages
+Blaster is shutdown
+Out Prioritized on land and air
+Recovery is gimpable
+CG useful only at low percentages
+Dthrow combos can be avoided with UpB's invincibility frames
+Dthrow/Uthrow Trap capitalized by lack of escape-routes
+Little Defense against bair and dair (vertical blindspot)
+Juggle ****
+Difficult to approach with high priority tilts/aerials/smashes
+Incredibly hard to gimp, especially from below

Advantages
+G&W is light (Early KO)
+Dthrow follow-ups are nasty
+Shine/Laser can stuff/out-space aerials
+Better Taunts?

Er. Its a really uphill match guys, you gotta space tightly, use your laser and shine every now and then. And if your in a rut, don't challenge the bair, just run and b-reversal a shot, punish the stun, and space some more. Keep Usmash and dsmash fresh, dsmash because G&W's low horizontal return is lacking. Make good use of empty SH's, and try those dthrow getaways, they could prove useful.

Also, don't pick flat stages, they make it easier to avoid the blaster.

So, Yoshi's island, and JJ are good stages in this match-up. We already kill it at JJ, so that should be our pick.


Synopsis
This match-up is one of if not our worst match-up. And it's only around 65-35 or 70-30. This match will be slow and difficult to win, we can't be rushing in constantly, keep back wait for an opening. Wait for THEM to make a mistake.

WEEK # 2-META KNIGHT

Disadvantages
~He's fast, really **** fast
~Can take us far offstage
~Can most likely recover from our chain spike
~His best KO move (dsmash) is lightning fast and spammable.

Advantages
~Two of our moves beat the whorenado, shine and blaster
~CG to 45%
~We can laser camp, and IAP out of trouble
~Fairly light so earlyish KOs.

Idk too much about this match-up guys, it's up to you.

 

[ixdnL]

And not to mention his d-smash comes out at ungodly speeds with hardly any ending lag. Game and Watch can D-throw to D-smash you if the throw is left unteched.

Get up close and in his face. This is where you have control. His bucket and ducking completely destroys possibly the most important part of our game, the lasers. Chaingrab to Gatling Combo when you can.

On a side note, hopefully this revives the boards.

More later.

 

[§witch]

That's my hope, I'll add more stuff when I get home in like an hour. Plus make a thread in the G&W board, maybe Neb can help us.

 

[B-Mon]

The problem is actually getting close. 2 of his tilts make this difficult (Down and Forward) and he can Smash Spam it insane speeds.

I just suggest to attack carefully and smart. Don't get too close, especially in the air unless you know your going to hit.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I think that Falco against bread is a good matchup.

 

[§witch]

I think everyone but a few people on this board are complete ******* =D. And I'm back now, I'll commence updating.

 

[B-Mon]

Oh and he can get Footstool Combo'd as shown on a video by Tommy_G.

 

[Semmick]

G&W tilts are spammable, but if you just DI out of them, then reflector the G&W to trip him, a Fsmash would be a good follow-up

 

[§witch]

Oh and he can get Footstool Combo'd as shown on a video by Tommy_G.

I was going to mention that as well, that combo is too fun.

 

[person701]

Uhh, let's see here. Instead of Falco playing offesnivly defensive (bear with me), he'll prolly have to play defensivly desensive aginst a G&W. Lasers for tricks, CG if you can, refelctor and saty outta the air. B-air *****, lasers should help. Is it possible to pillar G&W? I haven't even got the hang of pillaring in brawl down yet =\

Not a whole lot of options. Very bad matchup for Falco. I get 2-3 stocked whenever I play my 2v2 partner.

Edit: Rosky but would result in good punishment: laser his bucket full and reflector the full load... but I still really wouldn't advise it <<;

 

[§witch]

I can take the best G&W I've ever played, it's not that bad a match-up, falco is too good to have effective counters.

 

[ixdnL]

Looks more organized. Good job.

 

[Vlade]

Finally a thread that takes falco's metagame seriously and is not about bread. It's time the dedicated falco mainers out there need to start contributing again like the time before the 'bread phase' started.

Anyway I think G/W is probably falco's hardest match-up, mainly because he has an essential aspect of his strategy taken away thanks to the bucket: lasers. If you wanna use lasers, they have to be unpredictable and non-punishable.

Also be unpredictable with your phantasms, as a well-timed dtilt or ftilt will ruin you. Try to learn how to tech the dthrow otherwise you might get dsmashed, dtilted or jabbed.

Be cautious with your recovery because his fair stays out for a long time, which can KO if it hits in first few frames; otherwise it will just halt your phantasm. Some G/W players also like to use slow-falled dairs to edgeguard your phantasm, so be careful about that.

Basically you have to play safe, G/W will try and force you to approach by simply ducking your lasers. This is when you have to play smart as to not rush straight into a tilt that hits you straight in the face. In case you havent realised, shine beats the turtle.

 

[§witch]

*Updated.*

 

[iDizZzY]

I find that Nair is an extremly good approach option. It seems to get through alot of GaW attacks due to its speed. Also, Remember that when shielding the Bair, there is a hitbox when GaW hits the ground. So be sure to shield until GaW is on the floor, than punish.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My two cents are all in red

Disadvantages vs G&W
~Light, therefore harder to CG.
~Can duck/bucket our lasers.
~Has crazy fast, spammable, and EXTREMELY strong smashes, dsmash sweetspotted KOs at 90%.
~Fast, long range, spammable tilts.
~Arguably one of the best approaches in brawl (his bair.)
~Can attack after his up b.
~Can dthrow to dsmash, we can tech it though.
~Possibly gimp us fair/bair/dair.

Don't forget his amazing recovery, which is almost impossible to gimp, his priority and the fact that he can combo you in the air with multiple nairs.

Advantages vs G&W
~He's one of THE lightest characters in brawl, we can definitely abuse that.

Not really. Falco can do 60% to him right out of the box but from then on it's clearly GaWs match. You have troubles to even hit him through his turtle

~We may not be able to CG him too far, but we can still get a good 60%, from 2-3 throws to gaitling to nair.
~Baiting him to pull out his laggy bucket can prove to be a good mindgame, most good G&Ws know not to pull it out unless they know they won't be punished for it, meaning only use lasers to approach.
~IAP is our friend here, if he's ducking we can IAP right through him.
~We have fairly good spacing, utilise ftilt, shine, IAP and lasers to keep control of the match.

Disagree'd. It's almost impossible to beat a good spacing GaW unless you're called Marth, Snake or Metaknight. Falcos spaing is decent but no match for GaW

 

[B-Mon]

Oh and one more thing, if the Chaingrab was to fail, Remember that Falco does have quite a hard time KOing. In the air, GaW does have many moves to halt Falco's B-air and D-air. On the ground, Falco's Dsmash will send GaW flying but depending from what side of the attack, he can recover easily. Only a well placed Fsmash and Usmash can kill GaW good.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Nothing constructive to say here really, other than emphasize yet again that Falco is utterly screwed in this matchup. It's like 65/35 in G&W's favor.

 

[ixdnL]

Since when is 65/35 considered utterly screwed? But yes, G&W pretty much screws us over.

I'd give it 70/30, at least, to Game and Watch. He has way too many options against Falco.

 

[§witch]

My two cents are all in red

He can't outspace our shine, phantasm and lasers. As long as keep it unpredictable. But yeah, we are pretty screwed here, but at least we know we have a few options.

 

[person701]

Well, now that we've come to conclusion of G&W being extreamly hard and a Falco needing to play smart, shall we move to the next? I mean really, G&W is a bad matchup. We're just gonna have to deal with it :'(

 

[§witch]

Yup, pretty much, on to snake and MK then? Then like wario, DDD and those guys.

 

[Tommy_G]

Something I've learned about Falco is that almost every Falco player is a little too aggressive for their own good. Falco players love to mess with stuff and go into shields. Once Falcos learn to be patient and punish instead of running in and jumping into stuff, we'll be a lot better. Remember, this isn't melee. We can't jump into everything, shine it, and expect it to be ok.

^^^ this is what kills us against GaW. Does anyone remember Up smash kills at 100% for light characters? Instant dash attacks catch GaW players off guard. All of their moves have enough lag for Falco to instant dash attack into them safely(when spaced right) into possibly an up tilt or just to run away.

 

[§witch]

Yup, his lightness gives us the slightest edge, and yeah, I'm too aggressive, and it's hurting, I need to think more about what I'm doing...

 

[SLIVR]

the thing is how do you get past that bucket? and he keeps stage spicking me.

 

[Tommy_G]

Only shoot lasers when you're spacing him from a short distance, but long enough to not be able use other attacks. Shoot one at a time. When he buckets it, punish him hard for it. He has so much lag.

The bucket does 28% but doesn't kill until like 90%...he has moves that kill at 90% so we shouldn't be too worried about it. Besides usually when GaWs have the bucket they look for opportunities to use it. It'll screw up their game and give us a free camping match. What can GaW do to lasers besides bucket?

The stage spike thing...read what i just said before and stop messing with stuff.

 

[§witch]

Don't shoot lasers from far away, empty SH mindgame him into pulling out his lagtastic bucket. if you know you get stagespiked, don't chase him off the edge...

 

[Beetle Juice]

why won't we just wait walk a little bit towards G&W let him try to approach then shine him, i don't think most G&W have to shield against falcos really and they always approach, so why not spam phantasm and reflectors and use lasers close but not close enough fo him to bair you.

if you somehow are like literally next to G&W, you have quick and limited options before he punishes you for it: grab, AAA combo, or short hop fast fall either a nair, dair and maybe a bair and space yourself and punish him quick enough if he is stun.

netherless, g&w still kicks our ***

EDIT: practice the single silent lasers timing it will come in handy

 

[§witch]

You forget your tilts, dtilt and ftilt are good for some quick spacing, utilts after a weak nair and follow works well too, weak nair to utilt works at all %s.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Since when is 65/35 considered utterly screwed?

Anyone that can play competently will manhandle you with those numbers. I'd say that falls into the category of utter screw.

 

[Beetle Juice]

You forget your tilts, dtilt and ftilt are good for some quick spacing, utilts after a weak nair and follow works well too, weak nair to utilt works at all %s.

i mainly wanted to add the uses of falcos special, aggro players like g&a and metaknight seem to run into the reflector a lot, especialy short hop approaches.

other then the gatling combo, dash attack to the AAA combo works well against g&w and stops him from capadalizing (spelled wrong sorry) your attack and stops him from gaining any momemtum onto putting pressure on falco.

 

[§witch]

I like gaitling, to utilt, nait more. I love falco's utilt, hardly anyone uses it which makes me sad.
Capitalizing**

 

[Beetle Juice]

I like gaitling, to utilt, nait more. I love falco's utilt, hardly anyone uses it which makes me sad.
Capitalizing**

lol thanks i'm a cavemen but what about at percents where the gatling combo may not work hypetetically (correct my spelling leterbomb you the man) speaking since g&w is pretty light.

 

[§witch]

Idk, it works past 50 for sure, I'd need to check...
Hypothetically**

 

[B-Mon]

Now a video should be offered so that we can use our Advantage/Disadvantage list to breakdown that match-up. Well, that's what i think atleast.

 

[§witch]

Ah, you mean like top level players of both characters? That's a good idea. Oh, btw I <3 your avatar.

 

[B-Mon]

Lolz my thoughts exactly, both of the ontopic Video and the Epic Frotuar.

 

[Tommy_G]

If I had my wii right now...

GaW does a bunch of stuff to get you to come into his danger area. His approach method is getting others to approach him and punishing them with really strong attacks when they get close to GaW. We as Falcos love to jump into it whether its out of frusteration or strategy and we get owned because of it.

SHIELD(and getting away), Instant dash attack, DI away Nair and Dair, lasers used correctly, and Immediate aerial phantasm are your best friends in this match.

 

[Beetle Juice]

yea keeping our distance vs g&a is extremely important i think it would be good to put one laser in g&a's bucket when you are close to him in order to get the kill. one laser for each first two stocks that way you can punish him for the lag.

 

[§witch]

I'm thinking empty SHs from short range is much more effective, or just shoot only the high laser of the SHDL, making him think another one is coming.
What are we thinking here? 65-35, or 70-30?