The New Console Debates

[Cashed]

We don't need to have better graphics now- sure it's good, but let's focus on gameplay now.

Graphical leaps have never been necessary, but they're very nice. I thought graphics on the Xbox, GameCube and PS2 looked great until I got my 360. Everything is so crisp, so clear, so smooth. Playing 360 games and going back to Xbox, GCN and PS2 seems so terrible to me now. People say there isn't a huge difference, but there really is.

 

[Zink]

Out of curiosity, what kind of a difference is it? Is it better enviroments and ambience, or more detailing? I have seen screens from bothe gens and didn't see much of a difference, but I haven't played next-gen. On the other hand, I remember when I first got Cube. I thought N64 graphics were awesome, then I played Cube and went back, and noticed how fuzzy and dull things were, so I guess there is a big difference.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Well, the only way I can describe it is with a game that's on multiple platforms. And as of now, the only one I can name is Call of Duty 2. If you have it, change all the graphical settings down to their lowest possible. No AA, 800x600 resolution, direct X 7. Then turn them all the way up and hope your computer doesn't explode. And even that doesn't quite describe the difference (that and the XBox actually runs on Directx9+ settings).

I agree that Gameplay is far more important than graphics. We could have stopped at the N64 where three dimensional gained ground, but it just wouldn't be a console race if they all decided to use mediocre outdated technology. I only hope developers make eye candy take a backseat to gameplay and originality.

 

[Mic_128]

There's a bit more diference when comparing the N64 to the GC in terms of graphics. A LOT of diference.

 

[Cashed]

Don't just compare them by screenshots though, play the games. In some screens, yeah, it is hard to see a big difference, but when you play the game and see it in motion in front of your eyes, you see that big difference.

 

[Crimson King]

Play King Kong on XBox and 360 and you'll see the difference.

 

[kaid]

How much of that is the high def, do you think?

In other words, do we need a thousand dollar TV to appreciate the difference?

 

[commonyoshi]

the only reason the GC didnt do as well as the ps2 was becuase of the marketing. cures. hopefully they will know what people want this time.

 

[Crimson King]

Marketing wasn't the only reason. The GCN didn't do well simply because they didn't have enough of a variety of games. MGS2 and GTA3 were system sellers, but were absence. X-Box had Halo and all their other games helped sell consoles, but not as good as the PS2.

The fact is Nintendo lacked games that appealed to all gamers. Older gamers dib;t always want to play gamers designed for younger gamers, as they typically are too easy. Older gamers also want games that take more time to complete and be immersed in the experience.

The best example is games like Morrowind. The game is completely open-ended and thusly takes a long time to complete and get the most out of your money. That's another point I want to hit upon. When gamers are younger, 90% of the time, they have to get their parents to buy the games, typically only twice a year, so they enjoy whatever is given to them. However, older gamers have limited funds so they want a game they can get the most out of, not just fun for a few minutes.

Nintendo needs to optimize that market if they ever wish to succeed. They need to create a whole new target audience of gamers who are older, want harder, more mature games, and longevity.

 

[blaksheap82]

Not to rag on you Crimson King, but King Kong isn't a very good example. I saw a blurb saying that if you didn't play the 360 version on HD, it was too dark to see on quite a few TVs, and the pic in the magazine showed a huge difference. Yes, graphical upgrades are nice, but when they try to push it, like using digital devices that are not even in the hardware design to make the graphics look better, that's putting too much focus on graphics themselves. What if I just bought an expensive new TV, but it's not HD? If I want to get the most out of the picture, I can buy a new TV, or now I'm screwed.

And Cashed, yeah I probably didn't get those numbers on the consoles straight, but I meant to be talking estimates anyway. I haven't seen anything on those numbers in a long time either, so I couldn't remember exactly what I'd heard.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Here is the Japanese console sales for the week of Feb. 13-19th:

DS: 52,099
PSP: 27,430
PS2: 23,433
GBA SP: 5,553
GB Micro: 2,941
Gamecube: 1,814
Xbox 360: 1,314
GBA: 105
Xbox: 92

PS2 remains in control of this gen, though the Nintendo still leads the handheld market by a considerable margin.

 

[Crimson King]

Next Gen PSP will step up a good bit and finally Nintendo will have some real competition.

 

[Chill]

I think this gen PSP is real competition. The gap between the PS2, XBX, and GC is wide but that doesn't mean Sony has no competition. The gap between the DS and PSP is not even as wide as those of the consoles.

So far the PSP is the first handheld to ever put a significant dent in Nintendos market share in the handheld market. Some good games are starting to coming around for the system. If more developers use it to its full potential coupled with PS3 connectivity it could turn into a pretty good handheld.

To below: Yeah I wasn't saying there is a plethora of good games out. I said good games are finally starting to come out.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Whether or not it has dented Nintendo's handheld markets, I think the PSP is suffering a lack of good games.

 

[Giygas]

Next Gen PSP will step up a good bit and finally Nintendo will have some real competition.

Lmao, isn't that what THIS generation's PSP was supposed to be?

"You just wait 'til PSP two! We'll get you!"

Edit: "and if not two, then PSP three! With 8 times the features! Just wait and see!"

 

[Zink]

Sounds like the eternal cry of Mets fans- "Just wait till next year!"
The next PSPs will have features aplenty, but what else?

 

[GabbyJay]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like Sony is shooting themselves in the foot with Blu-Ray DVD's. The fact is that those Blu-Ray drives, unless Sony changes them to be different on the PS3 than they would be on Blu-Ray DVD players, won't work on most of the HD-TV's in existence right now, because of the copyright protection that Hollywood is adding to BluRay/HiDef DVD's. Not to mention Hi-Def DVD's aren't compatible on Blu-Ray and vice versa (or that's the information that I've gotten, someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Whether or not it applies to PS3 or not is the only question, but I'd rather take the game system I know will work on any TV then something that might require me shelling out three grand upwards for a new TV. In case you didn't notice....poor *** college student does not equal heavy amounts of disposable income. And I mean, I understand the appeal of great graphics, but there's only so many improvements that can be made. I'd rather not see the nosehairs of Solid Snake in the next MGS, thank you very much.

Furthermore, from a more personal standpoint that I freely admit, I'll buy a Revolution not just because its cheaper (which all signs point to it being that way), not just because it will work with my exsisting mediocre entertainment setup, but because I'm the old-fashioned stuck in the mud Nintendo fanboy. Frankly, I just can't help myself.

 

[Giygas]

Yeah, that really is unbelievable what Hollywood has done this time. Check IGN's article.

Who knows how this will affect Sony and Microsoft. 3 million early HDTV adopters can't be happy about having their expensive equipment rendered useless because Hollywood is telling them their component cables are now unacceptable for HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

All I can say is that Nintendo must be loving this whole fiasco.

 

[blaksheap82]

^ Not to mention the boycots of Sony I've been hearing something about, because of the root kits that would put a virus on someone's computer if they tried to burn a CD. If Nin delivers this gen, despite the impossible-live-up-to-hype they tend to create, without any 360-esque shortages, it could give them a stronger foothold than the current gen.

EDIT: That was major spam, wasn't it? Nuts. :/

 

[Cashed]

The 360 uses DVDs and utilizes the high resolutions of HDTVs. There will be a HD-DVD player add-on later this year which hooks to the 360 through a USB slot and displays the image through the 360. You don't have to buy it though, so I doubt Microsoft is too concerned. It'll be there for the people who have HDTVs that support HDMI and HDCP. Sony makes HDTVs on the other hand, makes Blu-Ray players, both of which the PS3 will make use of. I see this potentially being a large problem for Sony because they'll obviously be saying the PS3 is your chance to experience the next Playstation and have a Blu-Ray player. It doesn't even concern PS3 games, though. Just movies.

 

[Chill]

Yeah, Hollywood really screwed up this time. And you know who will get the blame for this. Sony, Microsoft, and other companies making these movies. 'How come their movies don't work on my TV?' I wonder if this will change or if there is a way around this. I doubt these companies are happy that 3 million of their potential costomers just got cut off.

Other stuff aside, this gen is going to be the most unpredictable we have had so far. All of the systems have alot going for them and all three companies are very ambitous this time around. Sony wants the PS3 to the 'it' console for the third time in a row. Microsoft is making great improvements to the 360. Nintendo wants their controller to be the new standard and reclaim what they've lost. Of course they will all need those great games to entice buyers.

Companies fighting for dominance= best gen ever?

EDIT: lol, I don't know where this came from. This was originally going to be a 2 sentence response to the piracy 'protection' issue.

 

[Zink]

LOL Chill got inspired...
yep, with the big competition goin on the next fews years will be veeery interesting. Sony's going all in and all out, MS is making their console into a computer, and Nin is doing... wierd stuff.
You think this gen is cool, wait till next next gen.

 

[zarbityugi]

That's the truth. It's really just a matter of time now to see what Sony and Nin can deliver. I just want to test that Rev controller! A lot of people seem to down it but it really does offer HUGE opportunities for game companies that take the challenge. It seems risky, but hey, what's life without a little risk?

P.S. I don't care about the graphics much. Heck, Advance Wars graphics are good enough for me. As long as I can tell who I am and who my enemy is, I'll be happy and fine. I really want Nin to focus on gameplay/flow, storyline, and length. LENGTH. We need a re-emergence of the multi-disk RPG. I would snatch those up in an instant!

EDIT:

Well, what is your supporting information that the PS3 will cost more than the 360? ... Nothing. Fact is these debates are on speculation from personal bias.

Not completely.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/story.php?sid=6144600&page=55

Click it and weep. (yeah, the link's been posted before)

 

[Zink]

If you want to pick up a multi disk RPG game get Tales of Symphonia (GCN) there's also a GBA Tales game. Anyway that was a bit off topic. Is anyone worried about the PS3 controller? I mean, it's already at least a $400-$500 system and it now has the contraller with the same buttons as the previuos but now it has a hand-hurting shape... "Buy a PS3 controller! It's the same buttons with a great new look! Patented Carpel Tunnel Syndrome Fun!"

 

[Chill]

When I first saw it I really didn't think much of it. As in I didn't think it was that bad. I'll wait to try the Revolution controller before saying I like or dislike it. And I'll wait to try the PS3 controller before I say I like or dislike it.

Below is a short animation someone made. Don't take it as proof or anything that the controller won't be uncomfortable, but it does provide a different way of looking at things.

 

[zarbityugi]

Call me what you want, but this is actually the first time I've seen the PS3 controller. I really don't have an opinion, since everybody's hands are different and all fit controllers different ways. But the Rev controller I have an opinion on: IT WILL BE AWESOME. Imagine the possibilities... For SSBR, you wouldn't have the case where you want to do a quick dash-A from a standing position, but instead you end up charging a f-smash. You could have one hand for movement dir and one hand for attacking/facing dir. That would also solve the doublejump-direction-change problem. Probably. Anyway, there's so much that you can do with that controller that it is probably going to be the only reason I buy a Rev. And the fact that the PS3 may start at $700 scares me. And I don't want to jump on the Xbox fanboy wagon.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

The PS3 controller looks very well designed, in my oppinion. It's just nothing "new" like the Revolution controller is. It's just an improved Dual Shock.

 

[Zink]

Sorry, I thought the boomerang was a lot bigger... oops. That is a good design, although be careful not to get blinded by the shine off its chrome body. I will continue to find flaws as I can.

 

[Cashed]

The PS3 controller does look fine when you see images of people holding it and such, the one thing I'd like Sony to change though is where the Left Analog stick is placed. I don't like having my thumb down like that, it's nice when my thumb rests in a comfortable spot and the thing you use most (Left analog stick!) on the controller is right there.

 

[Aruun]

I'm sorry, the shoulder buttons still look terribly uncomfortable. Whatever.

 

[Mic_128]

But the Rev controller I have an opinion on: IT WILL BE AWESOME.

I don't want to jump on the Xbox fanboy wagon.

Don't seem to mind jumping on the Nintendo Fanboy wagon though.

 

[McFox]

The PS3 controller looks ridiculous. I say "looks" because it probably feels just fine. It just looks funny. Like you'd want to hinge them to your utility belt and fight crime, or something.

 

[zarbityugi]

Don't seem to mind jumping on the Nintendo Fanboy wagon though.

No. Nintendo doesn't have a bandwagon. Nintendo has a faithful following. Microsoft is the newest company in the gaming business, and because of that they have a bandwagon. Nintendo has been in the gaming industry for about (if not more than) two decades. They started w/ arcade games and moved along with the tech (while helping it evolve). Microsoft just jumped in made a system. Nintendo doesn't have a bandwagon.

Yes, I may be a bit of a fanboy. But seriously, if you take 3 minutes and bump a few brain cells together, you can see the nearly unending possibilities of the Rev controller. Everybody is used to the old d-pad/R/L/A/B/X/Y/st/se. PS1 had R2/L2 and analog sticks. No real huge changes. The Rev controller has a motion-sensor device. Now you aren't confined by the speed of the cursor/reticle/whatever, but by the speed of YOUR OWN ARM. This has even more possibilities than the Mic. Granted, the Mic wasn't an entire controller but an off-shoot sort of thing, but I digress. With the Rev controller you can move in one direction while attacking in the other. That's a SSB point-of-view. Actually, that could apply to all fighting games. There was one thread somewhere in here that had a couple pages just on ideas of how the controller could be used. If I can find it for you, I'll post it. But seriously, this is a whole new doorway of opportunities.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Making a system more powerful simply isn't enticing. You can stuff your X-Box 360 or PS3 with brand new electronics... I can do the same thing to my computer - except my computer is better cause it's modular, whereas the XBox and PS3 will be outdated before the next generation rolls around.

Nintendo on the other hand had the foresight to make something innovative that my computer can't have. Bandwagon? Fanboy? I don't care. Better.

 

[Zink]

Plus with that expansion port on the revmote it is more modular than most. I think the next Xbox (720?) will be very much like a computer, maybe even with a mouselike controller.

 

[commonyoshi]

i think Nintendo is a company full of crazy yet awesome guinesses. the things they come up with are all so cool. stuff like the DS and the REV. Haxbox and PS2 just copy. Nintendo is the one going out on a limb to make games better. bravo nintendo, bravo.

 

[Chill]

What exactly have they copied?

 

[Cashed]

i think Nintendo is a company full of crazy yet awesome guinesses. the things they come up with are all so cool. stuff like the DS and the REV. Haxbox and PS2 just copy. Nintendo is the one going out on a limb to make games better. bravo nintendo, bravo.

Yeah, like developing tons of online games so you can enjoy multiplayer at any time and have games with never ending replay value.

Oh. Wait.

 

[kaid]

Nintendo invented the Saved Game, the L/R/X/Y/A/B button setup, the analog stick, and the $50 game, all of which was immediately copied by everyone... except itself, in the case of the controler, as it attempts to move on to newer concepts.

Microsoft brought it's computer experience in and required Broadband for all X-boxes, and put a hard drive in place of memory cards. Nintendo is stealing the ideas with it's own twist, using more durable flash memory inside the Rev and making it's own free version of Xbox Live.

Sony, uh, sony was the first to adopt CDs, DVDs, and now BRDs. (BluRay Disks)

 

[Crimson King]

Nintendo invented the Saved Game, the L/R/X/Y/A/B button setup, the analog stick, and the $50 game, all of which was immediately copied by everyone... except itself, in the case of the controler, as it attempts to move on to newer concepts.

You really think Nintendo invented the Saved game? Analog stick came from Atari and computer games started at $10 before Nintendo even began.

Microsoft brought it's computer experience in and required Broadband for all X-boxes, and put a hard drive in place of memory cards. Nintendo is stealing the ideas with it's own twist, using more durable flash memory inside the Rev and making it's own free version of Xbox Live.

And you automatically assume their version will be just as good, if not better than XBox Live? First off you are going to be paying for older game content, which makes little sense as I stated before.

Sony, uh, sony was the first to adopt CDs, DVDs, and now BRDs. (BluRay Disks)

And oddly enough, EVERYONE followed suit of that.

Fact is you are being biased for an inanimate object that is meant to have fun with. You guys act like Nintendo cares more or something about you, when they all just want the money.