The New Console Debates

[Deo_Smash]

That DS Lite is soppossably about $144. A fair price in a redesign. I really wished they come out with this first because I got my DS this christmas and I love it. But now this redesign kinda makes me regret it.

As much as Nintendo can be a stiff about information, they'll eventually tease us about something that will leave us in state of confusion and awe like a deer to headlights of a semi-truck and we will be equally be blown away.....minus the gore of course, maybe.

 

[Zink]

If it gets cheap I might get one... I missed out on the DS so far. I hope we don't wind up with like 5 different DS designs.

 

[Deo_Smash]

I got a feeling this will be the only one for a while. Don't worry Zink, I'd wait for this one to be released. It's lite in every term. Brighter screen, smaller size, and less weight. I've noticed my DS is slightly hefty but nothing more than an Xbox controller or less. I would like to see multiple colors of DSs. I would really like to have a green DS. We might see a green one with a Four Swords Bundle! How about that!

so much for console debating.....

 

[Chill]

Try holding an Xbox controller with one hand.

 

[Deo_Smash]

Well, the Xbox controller was just the first thing that came to mind when I thought of the DS ok? I don't own one but it just popped in there.

 

[Zink]

Ok thanks Deo. Why an Xbox controller?
The Xbox 360's controller should have been shaped like an X... or a circle.
Multiple DS colors? Maybe in a few years... has anyone thought about the sequel to the DS?

 

[Cashed]

Ok thanks Deo. Why an Xbox controller?
The Xbox 360's controller should have been shaped like an X... or a circle.
Multiple DS colors? Maybe in a few years... has anyone thought about the sequel to the DS?

Uh. Why would the 360's controller be shaped like the letter x? The Xbox is called Xbox because it uses DirectX, unlike the other consoles. Also, the 360 has the most comfortable controller I've ever set in my hands, so no need for change.

A sequel to the DS? You mean successor. And no, if there is one, it probably won't come out for oh... 4 more years or so. You'll see the successor to the Game Boy Advance before you see the successor to the DS.


Osco EDIT: It's called the Xbox since it's XTREME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chill]

Does anyone still think Nintendo is going to make another "game boy"? I just don't see the point it it.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Reggie said they were going to back at E3 05, and to look for news on it in 07.

 

[Chill]

Why? What would it do? Play another format besides DS cards? So then you have to own two different types of GBs just to play their games?

 

[Deo_Smash]

I've heard it called "Gameboy Evolution", says my friends at school but I'm not saying this on sure ground but what we've talked about that it will be using disks this time around instead of catridges. Any hopes of backwards capability and graphic information is up in the air. But after seeing the FMV sequences from Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, this gameboy should be out there, way out there!

 

[beckhamisaqueer]

Chill, the next Gameboy will be more of a traditional system I believe. The DS is just kind of out there for whoever wants a change. The next gameboy will be more of a direct PSP competitor. (I don't mean that it's being made to combat PSP.)

 

[Cashed]

Chill, the next Gameboy will be more of a traditional system I believe. The DS is just kind of out there for whoever wants a change. The next gameboy will be more of a direct PSP competitor. (I don't mean that it's being made to combat PSP.)

It will be a competitor to the PSP, but it won't have all the features the PSP has since it's a Nintendo product. The next Game Boy will probably be like all the rest of Nintendo's things. It'll play games, that's it. What would be really cool would be if Nintendo could get a handheld working that used the GameCube's disc and was essentially a handheld GameCube. I'm thinking the technology isn't quite there to get the GameCube so compact (with no fans, too), but within a few years, you never know.

Remember a couple years ago when there were rumors of a Microsoft handheld? Well, the rumors are back. Peter Moore brought it up in an interview, saying it'd be a lot like a PSP/iPod. Gaming, music, videos, online gameplay and more. I'd enjoy that... especially if Bungie made me a nice portable version of Halo.

 

[Mic_128]

What would be really cool would be if Nintendo could get a handheld working that used the GameCube's disc and was essentially a handheld GameCube. I'm thinking the technology isn't quite there to get the GameCube so compact (with no fans, too), but within a few years, you never know.

Ahh if only........

 

[Zink]

Wow, that's really cool... photoshop? Handhelds have been dominated by Nintendo for years. I thnk Sony and Microsoft are going to try to stuff their handhelds full of extras features and uses, until it's basically a tiny laptop. How can the next Gameboy compete with the PSP? That's the DS's job, any new GB might be too late... maybe as a counter to the PS2P?

 

[Mic_128]

Microsoft have posted some less-than-wonderful revenue results for the second quarter ending December 31st. The figures reveal that the Home and Entertainment division of the company, which oversees the Xbox arm of the business, has lost $293 million. (Ouch!)

Blame for the heavy loss was pinned (rather inevitably) on supply issues with certain Xbox 360 components, though the company did insist that a quick solution was being sought.

As for the Xbox 360 itself, Microsoft announced that more than 1.5 million units were shifted in the run-up to Christmas, with North America hogging 900,000 of those. Europe, the Middle East and Africa bought 500,000 of the things, while Japan bought 100,000. Hardly startling figures, though there was one good reason for Microsoft to cheer - so far, the attach rate for each X360 sold (how many games people purchase for their machine on average) has been impressively high: more than four games for every console sold.

 

[Zink]

$293 million... that's a lot, but it looks like things are improving. What kind of bundles is MS selling with the 360? Cause 4 for each console is quite a ratio.

 

[Giygas]

Not necesarily bundles that Microsoft was selling, but what the individual retailers offered. Due to the tight supply of Xbox 360s, retailers that had any to spare were packaging them with tons of extra games and controllers to maximize profit, because, hey, people will pay (or do) whatever it takes to secure these things around Christmas (case in point). The same thing was happening with Apple's iPod, namely the newly-released nano.

So I wouldn't say the attach rate was attributed to stellar launch games, it was attributed to forced bundles.

 

[Zink]

That makes sense... anyone know why the 360 launch was so messed up?
Add it up... around 4 games per system... $50 per game... $250 system... lots of money at one time.
I went to Gamestop a few days ago, and the counter guy said some grandma had dropped $1000 on gift cards so her grandchildren could buy 6 360s. Off topic, but funny.

 

[Cashed]

The 360 is $300 and $400. Not $250. Some games are $60, too, not all of them are $50. So far only first party titles are $50 (excluding Limited Edition games). And messed up? As in...? If you're referring to the limited amount of consoles, it's because Microsoft had such little time to manufacture them. They produced the final dev kits in September, two months later then they planned. They had two warehouses in China making the consoles, and they're opening another one in early February. 360s should be easy to get in a month or two.

 

[Chill]

No one answered my question. If another gameboy comes out what would it do? If it plays another format besides DS cards that would mean you need to own two handhelds to play all the games you wanted. If it doesn't then what's the point?

 

[Mic_128]

No one answered my question. If another gameboy comes out what would it do?

How would we know? We didn't know what the DS would do, we still don't know what the REv will do, just sit back and wait.

 

[Zink]

Sorry Cashed, I waskind of estimating costs, and I forgot the 360 price. :embarrass
We had a discussion about the lack of consoles, and it turned out only 1 out of 5 people actually got a 360, and all of them preordered. This seems like alienating customers to me, as the other 4 people were really mad.
Chill, the next gameboy will probably just have better graphics and controls. I think we shouldn't expect anything groundbreaking in the GB line: leave that to the DS and its successors. I dunno about media: we have seen AMAZING graphics (Chain of Memories) and capacity (Final Fantasy Tactics Advance) from standard GBA carts, so I'm hoping Nintendo stays with them.

 

[Chill]

Well, I wasn't really expecting someone to know what it will do I just wanted to see if someone could come up with a logical explanation. If the next gameboy does use GBA cartriges what's the reason for it? Would the DS be able to play these games? If it did why buy the other "gameboy". I just don't see any reason to have two seperated handhelds from the same company.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

just like some people have two different consoles, or have a PSP and GBA/ PSP and DS. THere are different games.

DS is a different system, its got different gameplay. the next GB would also have different stuff, and proably be a heck of a lot more powerful. Handheld GC, that means handheld SSBM, handheld Tales of Symphonia, etc. I'd buy a handheld GC, definately.

 

[Chill]

The only problem with your analogy is that those products come from different companies. What if Microsot released another version of the Xbox? How much sense would that make? Unless there is a really good reason for it I don't see why you would release another product into the same "field".

 

[Mic_128]

They just said that the DS will be marketed seperate from the GBA. That could change come the next GB.

 

[Zink]

Nintendo has referred to the DS as a "third pillar" somewhere, right? So I think it is a separate line from the Console line and the Handheld line, and will stay that way. Seems like they wanted to introduce the touch sccreen, but was worried about replacing the tried-and-true Gameboy with something so different. This way, they can innovate more on the DS line, and they keep the traditions of the Gameboy line.

 

[Giygas]

If there was a new handheld system to succeed the DS, it would have to be the dual-screen design due to the nature of the games. The DS 2. A system with one screen or no touch input wouldn't be able to do it (which is why it would be impossible to emulate the DS on normal tv, unless you used the DS as the controller and the TV was simply a bigger viewing screen).

The DS is very, very different from the Game Boy line. Just because it can play GBA games doesn't mean it is replacing it. Heck, they just released a third GBA model and a backlit SP, and they're still making GBA games. The Nintendo GameCube can play GBA games with the GB player, that doesn't mean it's replacing the GBA. So if a new DS came out I'd imagine it would be able to play old and new DS 2 games, and maybe a GBA port would be included.

If a new Game Boy came out, I'd imagine it would use a disk-based format (like Sony's PSP) and be a lot more "hi-tech." But it wouldn't play DS games.

Very, very different systems.

 

[Chill]

I see that the systems can be very different I just don't see how this can possibly turn out to be a good thing. Let's say the new gameboy is more high tech, okay so when they release a new game on it (mario kart, pokemon etc) you have to buy the new system to play your favorite game? "But they already do that" yes but not in the same "field".
The gamecube plays GBA games through a $40 attachment it's not nearly the same thing as a completly different handheld playing a different medium.

Just because a new model is released and games are still being made doesn't mean it's not a replacement (though in this case that's what it could mean). Sony released a slimline model for the PS2 and games will continue to be made for it after the release of the PS3. Is the PS3 not replacing the PS2?

If a new Game Boy came out, I'd imagine it would use a disk-based format (like Sony's PSP) and be a lot more "hi-tech." But it wouldn't play DS games.

That's what gets me. Remember how excited everyone was before the release of Mario Kart DS, when all the reviewers were calling it the 'best mario kart ever'? Lets say the next mario kart rolls around and reviewers are saying 'the best mario kart ever and with a much more comprehensive online mode etc, etc'. What do you do now?

I'm interested in what other people have to say about this. Am I the only one who doesn't find the idea of a second handheld particularly attractive?

 

[Deo_Smash]

we'll I then we would just buy the next best Mario Kart. Games can only evolve if the game systems evolve. Mario Kart has already appeared on the DS and we claim it to be the best yet. I'm sure that when the Revo comes out, we'll see one for it as well. And chances are that it will be better than the one we have now. The Mario Kart for GBA was nothing "out there". It melded original gameplay with some of Mario Kart 64 features such as triple shells, respawning boxes, and what not. It was more of a fix for the next one to come rather than a replacement of the last one made. I'm sure a Mario Kart will come out for the Next Gameboy. It will most likely NOT have 2 screens and may not have internet access, but it will use it's features to satisfy our wants untill the next big one comes around. If had a guess when we will see this Mario Kart, I would say sometime after the Revolutions Mario Kart is released, about 6 months to a year later. I wouldn't think Nintendo will release another DS Mario Kart. That would be like rehashing the franchise. Only one Mario Kart has appeared on each Nintendo System. I believe they'll keep this tradition.

 

[Zink]

Gah, this topic died.
Agreed, MK sometimes has new stuff, but often just builds on the good old formula. Imagine MK Rev with the steering wheel mock-up.

 

[beckhamisaqueer]

^

Or throwing a shell by flicking your wrist.

 

[blaksheap82]

It will be a competitor to the PSP, but it won't have all the features the PSP has since it's a Nintendo product. The next Game Boy will probably be like all the rest of Nintendo's things. It'll play games, that's it.

Then where did Pictochat come from? For the most part you're right, and that's actually one of the biggest reasons I like Nin, but you have to admit that Pictochat is branching out, however much.

On the subject of a GB successor, it would have to have something really special to draw me in. Someone already asked why you'd buy two systems that play the same games, and that's what I've been wondering about the DS playing GB games. Nin hardly seems to be supporting the GB with games, while releasing the Micro anyway, and I can only see how the DS's capability to play GB games would hurt it. The next generation of Pokemon are coming out only for the DS, and if Nin really wanted to keep the GB alive, they'd be using that as a major sales point, especially for people like me who are just waiting for there to not be a reason to keep their GB's anymore (actually, it's really my brother's, but he doesn't want to trade it in just because you don't get much money for it, regardless of whether it's just collecting dust or not).

 

[Giygas]

On the subject of a GB successor, it would have to have something really special to draw me in. Someone already asked why you'd buy two systems that play the same games...

The DS and the Game Boy Advance are two separate entities. Sure, the DS plays GBA games (not the classic Game Boy/GBC titles, mind you), but I look at this as something that is not intended to replace the GBA. I believe it's merely a convenience, something the developers added because, well, they can run a GBA title on one of the screens. And for those who own neither of the two systems, they can get a DS and play games from both the DS and the GBA. For the price-conscious consumer, or one who prefers form over functionality (like the SP or Micro), they can get a GBA at a fraction of the cost.

Two separate pillars, much like Nintendo has been telling us the whole time.

Nin hardly seems to be supporting the GB with games... ...especially for people like me who are just waiting for there to not be a reason to keep their GB's anymore...

So Nintendo is not supporting the GBA format? Nevermind the newer SP and the Micro, here is a list of high-profile games released since the DS's release in Nov. 2004:

- Final Fantasy I&2: Dawn of Souls
- Pokemon Emerald
- Mario Tennis Power Tour
- Wario Ware Twisted
- Racing Gears Advance
- Harvest Moon: More Friends of Mineral Town
- DK: King of Swing
- Mega Man Zero 4
- Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
- Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
- Gunstar Super Heroes
- Donkey Kong Country 3
- Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
- Final Fantasy IV Advance
- Drill Dozer
- Metal Slug Advance

And with games like Final Fantasy V, VI, the first Metal Slug, Tales of Phantasia, Samurai Showdown V, and more on the horizon, there's no reason to think Nintendo's abandoning the GBA.

One more thing. E3's coming, too. I'm sure there will be even more in store for us then.

 

[Chill]

I understand that the NGB(what I'm calling it from now on) can be seperate from the DS. I just don't understand why. Blacksheap brought up a good example regarding the pokemon games. Diamond and Pearl are coming to the DS so what's in store for the NGB? A port? That's no good. How about an entirely new pokemon game? Wait, so now pokefans need to buy another handheld just to play their favorite game? Do you see what I'm saying?

When I find out about it I just may change my mind but for now I don't see that happening. It really does need to be "something special". Playing a format aside from DS cards is not special.

 

[Cashed]

One more thing. E3's coming, too. I'm sure there will be even more in store for us then.

We're in that few months before E3 where everything is dead silent. =\ I'd like some new info on the Rev, I'd like to see some games for it, I'd like to see some new 360 games, I'd like to see what Microsoft is going to use the 360 camera like, I'd like to see the DS games currently slated for release like Super Mario Bros. DS along with new ones, etc.

 

[blaksheap82]

The DS and the Game Boy Advance are two separate entities. Sure, the DS plays GBA games (not the classic Game Boy/GBC titles, mind you), but I look at this as something that is not intended to replace the GBA. I believe it's merely a convenience, something the developers added because, well, they can run a GBA title on one of the screens. And for those who own neither of the two systems, they can get a DS and play games from both the DS and the GBA. For the price-conscious consumer, or one who prefers form over functionality (like the SP or Micro), they can get a GBA at a fraction of the cost.

Uh, sorry if that didn't really come across, but that was really what I was referring to. I just don't see how or why, with that convenience, anyone would bother to keep their GB, unless they play a lot of multiplayer Pokemon.

So Nintendo is not supporting the GBA format? Nevermind the newer SP and the Micro, here is a list of high-profile games released since the DS's release in Nov. 2004:

- Final Fantasy I&2: Dawn of Souls
- Pokemon Emerald
- Mario Tennis Power Tour
- Wario Ware Twisted
- Racing Gears Advance
- Harvest Moon: More Friends of Mineral Town
- DK: King of Swing
- Mega Man Zero 4
- Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
- Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
- Gunstar Super Heroes
- Donkey Kong Country 3
- Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
- Final Fantasy IV Advance
- Drill Dozer
- Metal Slug Advance

And with games like Final Fantasy V, VI, the first Metal Slug, Tales of Phantasia, Samurai Showdown V, and more on the horizon, there's no reason to think Nintendo's abandoning the GBA.

One more thing. E3's coming, too. I'm sure there will be even more in store for us then.

The ones in bold are the ones I was positive are ports, re-releases, sequels, or based on a pre-existing game in some way. I didn't highlight the ones I simply wasn't positive about. King of Swing is the only one on that list that showed any creative thinking for the GB release alone. It definitely appears Nin is supporting the GB, but how much creative effort are they focusing on it? Looking at that list, it's minimal, but the DS is constantly getting praised for it's innovation, by fans as well as objective third parties. If this year's E3 is anything like the last one as far as the GB is concerned, then it'll be almost impossible to convince me Nin isn't slowly abanonding the GB. Mentioning Pokemon again, it's always been faithful to the GB before. Now all the people who would keep their GB for that will have to buy a DS if they don't already have one, like Chill said, and the backwards compatibility of Pearl/Diamond only means the earlier Pokemon versions will be nothing but trade-in-credit-fodder once the Pokemon fans have all traded their Pokemon to their new games.

PS: Thanks for the props Chill, sometimes it seems like the points you, I, or anyone try to make in a debate go largely unnoticed on these boards.

 

[Zink]

Um, sheep? I would bet that out of any 100 games, at least 30 or more are based on previous, ports, sequels, re-releases... but I see your point. I'm betting the Revolution will have some form of the GBA player for the DS. Connectivity has been announced, and although I can't say hpw it would work, maybe it will be attempted. I also anticioate a DS price drop when the Rev hits, and maybe even a DS-Rev package.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

that could actually work.

the dpad for abxy, the joystick for the dpad, z1/2 for L/R, and the pointing feature for the touchpad. they'd have to throw out Mic features though.