The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK

[t3h n00b]

If its down to the players, then its a 50:50.

So 50:50?
Ooihvgtyh

Sonic is a matchup I have little to nothing to say in, but from what I'm seeing, it looks 50:50.

Uninformed posts where what destroyed the last matchup thread.

So dont go around posting falcon vs sonic is an even matchup. as that indicates you have never played a good sonic, and dont know what sonic (and falcon) are capable of. (uderrating sonic, and, overrating falcon.).

Uninformed posts were part of it, but it was also because of disagreement with neither side budging, and not a lot of actual experience in said matchup. Doc is smart. He isn't saying 50-50 because he has no idea what the matchup is. He read this thread and based on what others are saying, his ratio is 50-50. Just because he said he had little to say doesn't mean he doesn't know anything or has never played a good Sonic. Your post is an extrapolation.

All through the discussion, the matchup seems to have been perceived around 50-50 or maybe a little in Sonic's favor. If you think you know the matchup better, which I assume is the case because you criticized his ratio, then why do you think it is an advantage for Sonic? And I have played a great Sonic (and got wrecked), and I think the matchup is 50-50 as well.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

I know the sonic matchup very well.
And f5hazardousdoc, and everyone else who said its 50-50 does NOT know the matchup at all.
I didnt have to read the rest of his post apart from him saying its 50-50 to know he doesnt know the matchup at all.
And if he himself says he doesnt know the matchup at all, why does he even post a ratio?

 

[Tenki]

hummm

I always felt it was even myself. If there's an advantage, it's 55:45 for either character at most.

Jab camping can bait some desired movements (get Sonic to approach from the air). If Falcon gets Sonic in the air, his moves will either outprioritize or trade hits with Sonic's - with a better payout for Falcon. However, just because Sonic's in the air doesn't make it a complete brickwall, as Falcon's options from that point are still escapable/dependent on player ability to read (spring/airdodge/FFaerial/etc)

For either character, if you waste moves, they can both effectively punish each other.

Well, anyway, the last time we did the matchup discussion from the Sonic boards, we kind of thought that being able to U-air a spindash>aerial OoS was a Falcon/Ganon/Snake specific thing, but it might really extend to more matchups than just that, and besides, the general Sonic strategy is continuously moving away from spindashes.

So hey, maybe it is Sonic's advantage, but I don't see it going anywhere further than 55:45
:3

 

[Player-3]

i play tenki sometimes, but its usually always friendlies and we dont really play falcon/sonic

but we played a tourny set, and this matchup is annoying... well sonic is annoying to play agaisnt

55:45 is more to my liking, but im not very good and tenkis pretty good so i dont know

im gonna put 55:45

we are moving onto....

suggestions please

 

[Iwan]

i play tenki sometimes, but its usually always friendlies and we dont really play falcon/sonic

but we played a tourny set, and this matchup is annoying... well sonic is annoying to play agaisnt

55:45 is more to my liking, but im not very good and tenkis pretty good so i dont know

im gonna put 55:45

we are moving onto....

suggestions please

Have we discussed Lucario yet? Because that b**** annoys the hell out of me...xD

Last note on sonic match up: Wish I could say I've played tenki in any way other than online play, but I haven't :/. And when i did play him I used peach (IIRC). :[.

I know the match up well, though (thanks to shado for that, lol), and I'd say it's extremely close to even. If not even, 55:45 sonic.

But yea, Lucario next? Orrrrr.....kirby? Because Kirby's height ticks me off so much -_-. Impossible to hit the little bast**d. :/

 

[Player-3]

Have we discussed Lucario yet? Because that b**** annoys the hell out of me...xD

Last note on sonic match up: Wish I could say I've played tenki in any way other than online play, but I haven't :/. And when i did play him I used peach (IIRC). :[.

I know the match up well, though (thanks to shado for that, lol), and I'd say it's extremely close to even. If not even, 55:45 sonic.

But yea, Lucario next? Orrrrr.....kirby? Because Kirby's height ticks me off so much -_-. Impossible to hit the little bast**d. :/

i play a lucario player whos actually pretty good VERY often, so i can do the matchpu

but we already discussed it i believe.. kirby also

we can redo them, wait for some other people to give some input on matchup suggestions

 

[Iwan]

No, don't worry about it .

First, I want to get this off my chest; I completely disagree with the ganondorf match up ratio....but okay

*done with useless post*

I think we should discuss pikachu. His short height and big hit boxes give falcon a lot lot lot lot lot of trouble. lol...

go go go?

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I know the sonic matchup very well.
And f5hazardousdoc, and everyone else who said its 50-50 does NOT know the matchup at all.
I didnt have to read the rest of his post apart from him saying its 50-50 to know he doesnt know the matchup at all.
And if he himself says he doesnt know the matchup at all, why does he even post a ratio?

So people who think about the matchup aren't allowed discussion? I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't even be here, seeing as I main snake, and these are the falcon boards.

Just because I don't have alot to say, doesn't mean I don't have any experience with falcon to know how matches can and will play out.

I didn't even force my opinion on you. I simply stated that from my position as an observer, its looks 50:50.

Edit: BAD WORDING IS BAD

 

[t3h n00b]

P3, before you choose the next character, do you have an idea of which ones aren't going to be rediscussed?

 

[talkingbeatles]

Okay, so I don't know who we're discussing yet, but I second the motion of Kirby. I've played a decent Kirby in my day. A good friend of mine use to main him and now it's his second or third or something. I don't know. I do know that the little ****er is hard to hit.

 

[__V]

Sonic sucks. 6-4.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Sonic sucks. 6-4.

No u.
55-45, sonics advantage.
People need to play better sonics.

Sonic is underrated (wich isnt a bad thing per sé).

 

[Tenki]

^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrI7QUJfkvI

anyway, with that out of the way, you made it sound like it was gonna be 60:40 Sonic's advantage.

55:45 is pretty much even.

This topic is stale now. New character please.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Forget this post.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrI7QUJfkvI

anyway, with that out of the way, you made it sound like it was gonna be 60:40 Sonic's advantage.

55:45 is pretty much even.

This topic is stale now. New character please.

^^^^^^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVZjbyzFGQ

anyway, 55-54 =/= 50-50
its the difference of an even matchup and a (dis)advantage for one of the characters.
Small number, but big difference.

And you of al people should know the sonic vs falcon matchup.
But ah well..

:bumper::bumper:
:bumper::bumper:

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hey guys, we're discussing Falcon over at the Peach Boards in our match up thread
Here's the link

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193

Sensible and civil contribution is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

[jtamm1988]

yeah, sure.

I bet he didn't know that if he still has his double jump, he can just side-B, then double jump, and that's good enough to get Sonic back from almost anywhere.

And I bet he doesn't know he has invincibility frames out of spring, and that if he just falls a bit, he can also make it so that he can airdodge your attempt to land a side-B spike and force you to suicide or get into a position where he's on stage and you're on the ledge.




Exactly.

lol whoops, yea he's really not that good he only been playin for a few weeks so i doubt hes even tried that

 

[Wogrim]

I'd really like some comments from Sonic mains on the Ally vs Anther game. It seems to me that since Sonic's only really good move (spindash stuff) doesn't really work, he doesn't got much going for him in the matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWkIVPw8-A

 

[Player-3]

facepalm

im sad now, tenki

this is why i dont like these boards anymore
people are stupid


anyways

pick a char, and then ill tell you

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'd really like some comments from Sonic mains on the Ally vs Anther game. It seems to me that since Sonic's only really good move (spindash stuff) doesn't really work, he doesn't got much going for him in the matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWkIVPw8-A

That's it I am done with these boards.

*moves on to Marth boards.

SO many things wrong with this post.

 

[Iwan]

I'd really like some comments from Sonic mains on the Ally vs Anther game. It seems to me that since Sonic's only really good move (spindash stuff) doesn't really work, he doesn't got much going for him in the matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWkIVPw8-A

Spin dash isn't sonic's only "really good move", Wogrim.

Look into some sonic stuff on their boards and come back. It'll help

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

I'd really like some comments from Sonic mains on the Ally vs Anther game. It seems to me that since Sonic's only really good move (spindash stuff) doesn't really work, he doesn't got much going for him in the matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFWkIVPw8-A

This proves you dont know the matchup at all.

Ugh, and wogrim is a falcon board regular.

This board is worth a tear or two

 

[Jim Morrison]

facepalm

im sad now, tenki

this is why i dont like these boards anymore
people are stupid


anyways

pick a char, and then ill tell you

If we do chars from the last matchup thread again now, I'd say Marth
If not, how about PT O_o

 

[Wogrim]

This proves you dont know the matchup at all.

Ugh, and wogrim is a falcon board regular.

This board is worth a tear or two

I haven't been a regular for months, but what does that have to do with me not knowing what Sonic mains like to do.

Wasted 1/2 hour of my life watching the "top 4 texas 72 oz steaks" or whatever... not impressed.

Okay, so Sonic also likes to spam spring, UAir, and DAir. What's the big deal?

 

[t3h n00b]

Here's a great (but not considered top, I don't think) Sonic vs. one of the best Falcos in Brawl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzjKVnXD6sA

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

This proves you dont know the matchup at all.

Ugh, and wogrim is a falcon board regular.

This board is worth a tear or two

I have to agree with this. Also, many of you are making it seem as if jab > all of sonics approaches.

 

[Kishin]

Sonic is a total PITA to fight... Spin dash canceling is so versatile and it's incredibly difficult for Falcon to get anywhere near Sonic. A good Sonic I've played used Spin Dash canceling to bait and punish me like hell. You can pivot grab him out of Spin Dash if he decides to use that directly toward you but he can just cancel it. You can't gimp him, it's hard to catch him, it's hard to land a single hit on a good Sonic.

 

[Wogrim]

Here's a great (but not considered top, I don't think) Sonic vs. one of the best Falcos in Brawl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzjKVnXD6sA

I'm still not seeing what's so awesome about Sonic. Falco mostly gets beat up when he's jumping around, since he has a hard time landing his lazers on spinning Sonic and then can't get back to the ground very safely.

What does Sonic have when you just stay on the ground?

 

[t3h n00b]

I'm not saying he's awesome, but Sonic uses more moves than the ones you said, pretty much what's in the video is Sonic's metagame. I have no idea how Sonic is played on the ground besides from videos like that and from my opponents. Camalange used dtilt to trip me and get 3/4 hits in, grabbed to punish a whiffed move, and fsmash as a kill move sometimes, but aerials and specials can hit a grounded Falcon, especially with that spindash jump thing. Also, one uthrow means Falcon is no longer grounded, I lost because I got tons of damage on me from juggles and throws, but I wouldn't know if that's characteristic to all Sonics or matchups.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

From reading wogrim's post, he was making judgements based on the video.

If you seriously want to go all crazy on him because of the vid, smack the vid, not the observer.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

From reading wogrim's post, he was making judgements based on the video.

If you seriously want to go all crazy on him because of the vid, smack the vid, not the observer.

if someone doesn't know a match-up i really dont think they should pretend to know either whether it be from guesses or videos. learn through experience, not observation..

 

[FAILchion-]

Why are we still on Sonic? Lol.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

because ur too slow.

 

[kamimari36]

Why are we still on Sonic? Lol.

because ur too slow.

Somebody turn this into an internet meme!!!

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Somebody turn this into an internet meme!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9wO2T_872I

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

lol wtf o.O people b watchin me y0

 

[Wogrim]

if someone doesn't know a match-up i really dont think they should pretend to know either whether it be from guesses or videos. learn through experience, not observation..

I can't make conclusions from the top videos in the Sonic video thread and from other, presumably good Sonics playing good opponents?

My experience is mostly that he likes to do stuff that only really works on people who are unfamiliar with his speed and options, such as spring->UAir, and that he can also be a pain to kill since it's really hard to gimp him. If you want to tell me exactly what is wrong with my conclusions, that would be cool. I obviously haven't had the problems that you're having.

 

[Iwan]

I can't make conclusions from the top videos in the Sonic video thread and from other, presumably good Sonics playing good opponents?

My experience is mostly that he likes to do stuff that only really works on people who are unfamiliar with his speed and options, such as spring->UAir, and that he can also be a pain to kill since it's really hard to gimp him. If you want to tell me exactly what is wrong with my conclusions, that would be cool. I obviously haven't had the problems that you're having.

What I assume he's saying (and what I would agree with), is that if you haven't played a very good sonic, then more than likely you don't know the match up.

Merely watching a video, even of top players, will only give you "youtube syndrome".

"Youtube Syndrome" - "zomg this video isn't impressive. I play exactly like this dude's metaknight. I'm so just as good as him."

^ just an example.
lol xD

Have you ever played a good sonic wogrim? ( < just a question, not insulting >_>....)

 

[Wogrim]

What I assume he's saying (and what I would agree with), is that if you haven't played a very good sonic, then more than likely you don't know the match up.

Merely watching a video, even of top players, will only give you "youtube syndrome".

"Youtube Syndrome" - "zomg this video isn't impressive. I play exactly like this dude's metaknight. I'm so just as good as him."

^ just an example.
lol xD

Have you ever played a good sonic wogrim? ( < just a question, not insulting >_>....)

Probably not. Apparrently I don't know what a good Sonic does so how would I know?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I can't make conclusions from the top videos in the Sonic video thread and from other, presumably good Sonics playing good opponents?

My experience is mostly that he likes to do stuff that only really works on people who are unfamiliar with his speed and options, such as spring->UAir, and that he can also be a pain to kill since it's really hard to gimp him. If you want to tell me exactly what is wrong with my conclusions, that would be cool. I obviously haven't had the problems that you're having.

The reason why I say experience is because it's human nature to see flaws. When I'm watching any smash vid on youtube, I'm like "why didnt he do (insert move there) at that given time" etc etc. You can watch as many pros and they won't look as good as they actually are because they are playing someone on a professional level. not sure how to explain it, but pros dont look pro against pro.