Mr. Alcohol
Smash Apprentice
10CHARIXARDS
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The Ness Support Thread
- Thread starter DekuBoy
- Start date
vesperview
Smash Hero
Yeah, every opinion must be insignificant when you can't argue it right? You don't even understand what I'm saying, so let me refrase the **** thing:
Why on EARTH if Ness is the one who has been in the Smash games since the beginning be the one to have his game with less representation while Lucas's who is a newcomer gets a second rep? That's what doesn't make any sense, cause clearly Ness is the one that would deserve a second rep from his game, not Lucas, get it?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I get it and I agree.
OysterMeister
Smash Journeyman
Lucas and Ness DO have different movesets. All their standard moves are different, and based of screenshots at least two of the three moves they do share act differently. They just appear to be similar, because they both play near-identical roles in their games. Sakurai didn't clone Lucas from Ness, they both have unique movesets except for ONE move(PK thunder).
Clones don't take space away from unique characters. Clones are only added when there isn't enough time to add another unique character. Clones are bonus material; characters added to the roster even after the roster was full.
But I'm not talking about adding Ness as a clone. Ness already has his own unique moveset that's different from Lucas', neither Ness nor Lucas are clones.
Peach was revealed almost by accident because she was in a subspace emissary video, all other characters who were revealed in videos were actually official revealed. But that's not what my point was. I'm just saying that Sakurai has done some wierd stuff with the updates. I mean, shouldn't we have gotten Captain Falcon before we got the Samurai Goroh assist trophy? I don't think revealing Lucas first means anything, I don't think revealing Goroh before the Captain means anything, and I don't think revealing Peach two weeks before her confirmation means anything. I just think Sakurai is random with his updates.
antimatter
Smash Lord
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i kinda wish ness were in brawl, but the fact remains that Sakurai wanted to replace Ness even in Brawl.
Who said Lucas' is getting a second rep?
vesperview
Smash Hero
Who says Ness is returning? Claus has more chance than Ness at this point, stop kidding yourselfWho said Lucas' is getting a second rep?
Who says Ness is returning? Claus has more chance than Ness at this point, stop kidding yourself
Kidding MYself? Neither one of them has a very good chance at all, imo. I just disagree that Ness has NO chance. Like I've said, he has about an equal chance as Roy, which'd be about 0, but not quite 0.
Johnknight1
Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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- Johnknight1
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1.Neither was PK Barrier, PK Fire (not 100% sure, though), or PK Thunder. All those moves were Paulas in Mother 2/EarthBound.
2.As a Link user, allow me to explain. Link was pure crap in SSB64. In Melee he was upfront, easy to use, and perfect for casual play. His uB was easily overabused, his arrows scared n00bs, and people stood there for long periods of time standing there and charging them, etc. He had 3 long range attacks that were HEAVILY OVERUSED by casual players, a long grab that was overused (and sucks like no other), and his dAir was overused like CRAZY!
Lucas looks like Link because:
-A. They have three types of long range attacaks
-B. Long grab, that if you miss with, you are screwed. REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SCREWED=that is why you hardly see any good Link players grab compared to Marth, Shiek, Roy, Mario, Bowser, and whatnot.
C. A few odd attacks that could be useful, but don't seem to have high prioriety. (ie: Link's dAir, Lucas' stupid spike bAir=Ness' dAir spike was good, and Ness' bAir was much better).
D. Like Link, they recover the same. Both their uB recoveries can be done 16 diffrent angles, and they rely on tether recoveries. Simply put, Lucas' uB recovery will be as good as Ness' in Melee (Ness' in SSB64 is the s***)=not very good. Expect the PK Thunder blast to fly too slow, and to be dumbed down, and "easier to use" for n00bs. Link's recovery is actually prettyy good-but he relies on it too much. The reason Ness wasn't a mid tier in Melee is because he relys on his hard recovery, that isn't even that good. In SSB64 his recovery was great, and it actually did good damage-if he had that in Melee, he'd be SOOOO much better off.
E. Both have crappy dAirs probably. Link's has been dumbed down thanks to casual complaints (along with his uB), and Lucas' will be odd, especially since it won't be a spike. Also, expect Lucas to have his uB as bad as Ness, in the sense of idiots saying it's overpowered (but hard to pull off), but dumbed down, and the PK Thunder blast to take longer. PK Thunder goes a lot slower in Melee than SSB64-it got less damage, dumbed down, and SSB64 moves slower, and Brawl hardly moves faster then SSB64. So ya, expect PK Thunder to be hardly useful spam, and barely better recovery-if not worse.
The comparision is pretty close, actually. It seems odd to change those things, however. Ness' areial game was great in Melee, and better in SSB64. His B moveset was all that ever REALLY sucked, along with his up and down smashes! XD At least Sakurai did one positive change. I'm hesitant to Lucas being good in Brawl, with all honesty. The way he looks IMO is like Link-low tier. I'm assuming Lucas will be a bit better balanced, however.
He seems like mid-tier material, which is usually another word for bad. No one wants to main a balanced character, we all want to main the best, cheapest characters. And I'm not joking on that one-I follow it too! XD (Fox main) Why else am I a happy Mario SSB64 main in the sense that he's a GOD in the Brawl demo=??? We all LOVE IT when the characters we use in a previous smash game are in Brawl, and are absolute beasts!
This is all a assumption, but that is just how it seems at the moment. Things change, especially after IGNnorace; ie: Bowser going from balanced to bad in Melee because of IGN IGNorance!
O, and I still think it's wierd Sakurai wasted his time making Lucas the least cloniest clone ever. Seriously, Luigi's clooniness compared to Lucas' cloniness is like comparing Dr. Mario and Luigi's cloniness: RETARTED! Lucas has all origianal A moveset (Luigi has 80% of the same A attacks), his grab is original, he has extra recovery, he has a original nB, a original FS (then again, Ness nver got a FS! XD), all of Ness' moves are totally redone, and are weaker/stronger then Melee. His dB looks better, but only blocks one side. His fB looks better then Ness' Melee one, but worse then his SSb64 one. It's balanced, but balance gets us NOWHERE1OVERPOWERED! HAHAHA! SHINED! HAHA! I WIN!
*calms down*Good point. As I keep saying, it's not over until it's over. But don't bet your money Ness is gone, since Sakurai doesn't seem to care that MOTHER 3 will never leave Japan. At least Marth's new remake on the DS of the original FE will probably port worldwide...
Are you suggesting that I'm racist? Because I'm not...I hate each and every one of you fools equally!
Seriously, it is the fact we won't get any Australia-only, Europe-only, or even North or South America-only characters that p***es me off-even as ATs. I'm talking about Sakurai-not the Japanese in general. This is the 3rd Japan only character, and Sakurai said he would probably not add any MORE Japan-only characters. Marth, Roy, Lucas. Let us look at the facts.:
1. 2 of the 26 characters in Melee are Japan-only. That is 1/13 characters, or about 8% off the entire Melee roster. Sure there weren't any in SSB64-but SSB64 only starred NINTENDO'S ALL-STAR CHARACTERS!
2. There hasn't been a single trophy, item, assist trophy, stage (outside of original stages; ie: Battlefield and FD), character, NPC, boss, or whatnot that hasn't been seen in a game that was in Japan. No West-only characters. Fact is, Sakurai is overly biased to Japan, and harldy cares about us.
3. Japan got SSB64 and Melee before anyone (well, I'll give Sakurai this: SSB64 was originally a Japan-only title! XD), and will get Brawl before anyone. Ya, too bad Sakurai isn't the ever awsome Metal Gear series creator Hideo Kojima, who is releasing MGS4 in Europe, Japan, Australia, and North and South America on the same day, like someone who REALLY cares about their fans everywhere. That might be why MGS2 outsold Melee, because the release dates were pretty close in time worldwide! >_<
4. Australia will be lucky to get Brawl by 2009, since NOA sucks, and Australia is hardly any bit away from Japan compared to Europe, but NOA suckage continues.
5. Europe will be lucky to have Brawl released there in just English by this time 2008. Not sure about the Spanish, French, and German versions, but if they don't come with the English version, they'll have to wait pretty long, sadly.
6. In Melee almost got two characters we wouldn't that were Japan-only over real reconizable characters like Wario or Diddy Kong in the west, and the world. Ya, SML2, SML3, and the Wario Land games sold like 4 times as much as the entire FE series combined. DKC2 plus Diddy Kong Racing sold twice as much as the FE series=overly biased. He based most of the Melee characters off the characters Japan wanted-the rest were generic and needed characters, like Peach, Bowser, Zelda, and Ganondorf. O, and some random characters, of course that he likes.
7. No West-only playable characters. (by West, I mean North and South America, Australia, Europe, etc.)
8. No West-only trophies.
9. No West only ATs.
10. Any proof he's going to add characters, trophies, stages, ATs, bosses, stickers, NPCs, etc. only popular outside of Japan=??? No, because there isn't any.
Point proven. It's not Lucas that bothers me-he was very well needed in Brawl. It is the fact that nothing that hasn't appeared in Japan isn't in smash. Show a little culture diversity, other then Japan. Nothing against Japan, just against how they embrace one culture, and don't give a peep about the rest. Give me a Australia-only AT for goodness sake=PWNAGE!
For real, if there is another Japan-only character in Brawl, I might worry about the whole Marth and Roy thing-where they weren't even going to be included in the game OUTSIDE of Japan.
O, and Ness for a alternate costume. It's the least that West hating fool named Sakurai could do, for ANY CUT CHARACTER=alternate costume, if he actually cares about his fans, especially outside of Japan. *coughAustralianreleasedate*
Death to Japan-onlys, until we get some West-onlys. Master Chief in Brawl as a PC would be a perfect balance, and would please me just so we could get some reppage, seriously! XD
And Mr. Alcohol, with your name, I'm unsure if I can trust you or not!
vesperview
Smash Hero
So that's why you've been arguing about how nothing deconfirms Ness since two days ago? Because you think he has zero chance? GTFO!Kidding MYself? Neither one of them has a very good chance at all, imo. I just disagree that Ness has NO chance. Like I've said, he has about an equal chance as Roy, which'd be about 0, but not quite 0.
Learn to read. I said he DOESN'T have 0 chance.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Waluigi has a chance, doesn't mean he's going to be playable
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Does it matter. You said about 0, your basically rounding it off to 0.
vesperview
Smash Hero
You still have nothing to argue but a single quote from Sakurai or saying that he might be a Luigified Ness when we don't even know if Luigi will return with a completely new moveset, this thread is so pathetic.
Mr. Alcohol
Smash Apprentice
Hey, I quoted Sakurai directly. What's not to believe about that?
And Vesperview, Claus's chances don't look too good. He was playable for only a short amount of time in the one game he was featured in.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
He is also the ONLY good villain from MOTHER 3 to have in Smash, especially now that Pokey has been predicted as a boss...and Claus is the only other MOTHER character besides Mother 2 characters, to be on the pollHey, I quoted Sakurai directly. What's not to believe about that?
And Vesperview, Claus's chances don't look too good. He was playable for only a short amount of time in the one game he was featured in.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Yeah because a character needs to be playable throughout the entire game to be important to the plot and have a good chance of being in Brawl.[/sarcasm]
And you have nothing to argue but that he was going to be cut from Melee but wasn't, and that he WON'T be a Luigi-fied Ness.
LMAO. You flamed that one kid for calling everyone who disagreed with him a troll, but everyone who disagrees with you is pathetic?
vesperview
Smash Hero
People in denial disagreeing with facts are pathetic, please, the fact that Ness was going to be cut but wasn't because Mother 3 wasn't released, that Mother 3 sold better, that there is no good reason for Ness to return should be proof enough for you cause it weighs so much more than you arguing Sakurai will pull a completely new moveset for Ness out of his *** or just make Ness return to have Lucas be a semi clone, please the only pathetic people here are you, your arguments weigh absolutely nothing against all of the things against Ness.
JonBeBonanza
Smash Lord
hey dekuboy
dont forget to put me on the list, you know the one for the SUPPORT THREAD thank you
*unsubscribes*
dont forget to put me on the list, you know the one for the SUPPORT THREAD thank you
*unsubscribes*
Noshiee
Smash Ace
so, ,mmm, you mean Melee mario will come back? becouse he has a different fair, dair, down special? ok, bad example, but you get the point.
If ness would had been the one to be confirmed, and not Lucas, the moveset most probably would have been the same as Lucas, becouse Lucas's moveset is an improved version of Ness.
And Sakurai might had given a different A moveset to Lucas because he wanted him to be a little different from Ness, and not just a pallete swap of Ness.
Lucas and Ness are CLONES, clones are not identical, they do have different stuff, like CF is fast, and Ganon if slow and powerful, or DR. Mario is better than regular Mario, or Pishu is faster than PIkashu, but weaker, or Roy being powerfuler but slower than Marth, etc.
Anyway, how do you know that Lucas's A moves do different damage and have different knockback? as long as we know they might be exactly the same, with different animation and hit boxes.
LMAO. Go re-read my post and you will see the idiocy of this post. You proved my point exactly. I was pointing out that your arguments were "ZOMG no clones", and "[insert someone who says Ness MIGHT come back] is pathetic." And that is all I see here, besides the fact that Mother 3's sales were higher (which means Marth won't come back, right? His games weren't the highest selling in their respective series)
vesperview
Smash Hero
I don't understand a word of your posts, I didn't prove your point, you're not arguing anything about Ness anymore, you're just trying to make me look bad to make yourself look good, how pathetic, if not being able to argue the most important point against Ness that is that he was going to get cut in Melee makes me a troll, then so be it and you don't even know if there will be Luigified characters in Melee to make that a viable argument and who's saying Marth will return? You're clearly reaching way too far for an argument now.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I'm saying Marth will return, though I don't mean it
Johnknight1
Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
- Joined
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- Johnknight1
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Ya, Cluas has only a small chance. And how do I know Sakurai didn't drink you Mr. Alcohol when he made that statement!
Mr. Alcohol
Smash Apprentice
**** you, John. You're too clever.Ya, Cluas has only a small chance. And how do I know Sakurai didn't drink you Mr. Alcohol when he made that statement!
In any case, Claus's chances are pretty grim. Honestly--why include a character who isn't even important to the Mother storyline? There are better PC alternatives.
vesperview
Smash Hero
You obviously haven't played Mother 3.
ThoraxeRMG
Smash Ace
What's going on guys? I leave to watch a movie and a war starts.
A Link to the Snitch
Smash Lord
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I think Ness would have had a better chance if Sakurai gave him...
PK Love
Starstorm
PK Earth
And maybe a couple others.
PK Love
Starstorm
PK Earth
And maybe a couple others.
Noshiee
Smash Ace
except that PK Ground is a Mother 3only, and PK DStarstorm is Lucas FS and is PK Rockin for Ness, not PK Love, even if they are the same attack, kinda
also, Claus islike the 2 most important character in Mother 3, at coolest after Lucas, but that last thing ismy opinion
also, Claus islike the 2 most important character in Mother 3, at coolest after Lucas, but that last thing ismy opinion
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
I can see why someone might say Ness is out due to that.. but from what I have heard, this was a mistranslation, and/or it was interpreted differently.Sakurai said:
Troll1: "amgz lucas moveset = NESS old, moveset so ness = out 4 realz"Sakurai said:
Troll2: " lyk troo mann no way 2 charakterz can have similar movez.
Sakurai pointed this sentence because... he wanted everyone to understand why Lucas' attacks are similar to Ness, so that it makes sense. Meaning the Ness/Lucas moveset similarity is not a good point since they have the same family of PK.
Troll1: "Sakuraiiy stop comparing Lucas with Ness, cuz Ness = lyk out."Sakurai said:
It is a bit odd for Sakurai to keep comparing Lucas to Ness, pointing out differences, I mean Sakurai's main concern recently is keeping new comers to Smash up to date, and how better for them to understand the difference between Ness and Lucas, then to include them both.
This is directed towards the people who believe Ness has a 0% chance to return, even if you think he has a 1% chance to come back, at least you aren't jumping to complete conclusions like most.
A Link to the Snitch
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
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- 1,538
My mistake, I meant to say if he gave Lucas those moves.
HollabackRyu
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2007
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- 330
Nice way of finding the hidden meaning of Sakurai's quotes just so that it fits your standards, he could also be mentioning Ness to avoid comparisons he won't like or to state the differences between Ness and Lucas so you don't fully expect a Ness clone when you play as Lucas for the first time, stop quoting and finding meaning to Sakurai's quotes as if you're Sakurai, cause you have failed miserably.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
So if quoting Sakurai and finding the meaning of what his messages say makes me fail, give an
F to all the Ness trolls who say "Until now" means hes out.
do you see what I just did there? you basically set yourself up to fail.
Mr. Alcohol
Smash Apprentice
What do you think "until now" means? Sakurai was pretty cut-and-dry on this one.
motherfan
Smash Journeyman
Sign me up too. They could at least make him as an alt. color/costume for Lucas.
HollabackRyu
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2007
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- 330
If anything the "until now" part clearly means more that he is out than him being in, again, stop trying to find meaning to Sakurai as if you have any idea WTF you're talking about
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Yes but like stated before, "Up until now" could be a mistranslation. People point out typos, and errors in the brawl updates all the time, I do not see how this could be excluded.
in addition, until now has been used in other updates, yet has not deconfirmed anything.
in addition, until now has been used in other updates, yet has not deconfirmed anything.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Time will tell.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
QFT -- you have basically answered all questions, and assumtions.
and Mr. Alchy, I like your new sig.