The Myth of the Elitist Competitives

[P-X R4ZR]

youre not getting it....

Sports: rules were written before the game was ever made

Video Game: the game was made. Then rules are constructed for what players think best suits the style of the game.

Because the game was created first, the rules can be wrong.

This is irrelevant anyway and is going into a totally different direction than the original point was supposed to make.

The reason I brought it up was because everything you said about Smashoards could be applied to MLB/MLG/NBA/etc... and also because your claims are wrong. It's the responsibility of all tourney players to know the rules of the tourney beforehand, so it is totally illogical that a player would even consider arguing with the rules, especially because the player agreed to those rules when they signed up.

Also, you shouldn't be ragged on for disagreeing with the general consensus. If you post a well thought out and logical post on why Brawl doesn't need wavedashing, you aren't going to be excluded from anything.

 

[fr0st2k]

I understand this completely. I play with casuals all the time and they have different opinions of the game from each other, me, and everything.

You have alot of scrubs being vocal and that pisses people off. No worries.

Once again ... you are talking about Melee. at least that is implied.

this is brawl...you are not a pro, and everyone is currently casual or noobish. Their opinions are just as equal as your own.

If they argue for items, and they have a legitmate reason (I dont think there is..this is just an example) Then you should listen to it, analyze it, and try your best to incorporate its logic into making the best ruleset possible.

 

[fr0st2k]

The reason I brought it up was because everything you said about Smashoards could be applied to MLB/MLG/NBA/etc... and also because your claims are wrong. It's the responsibility of all tourney players to know the rules of the tourney beforehand, so it is totally illogical that a player would even consider arguing with the rules, especially because the player agreed to those rules when they signed up.

Also, you shouldn't be ragged on for disagreeing with the general consensus. If you post a well thought out and logical post on why Brawl doesn't need wavedashing, you aren't going to be excluded from anything.

i agree with your statement , "so it is totally illogical that a player would even consider arguing with the rules, especially because the player agreed to those rules when they signed up," IF we were signed up at a tournament.

But we are discussing Brawl, and no one knows the best rules for brawl yet.

We are also on a message board. Message boards are meant for discussion. We arent at a tournament.

 

[Bendu]

Once again ... you are talking about Melee. at least that is implied.

this is brawl...you are not a pro, and everyone is currently casual or noobish. Their opinions are just as equal as your own.

People who have already imported the game from Japan, tested aspects of the game extensively, and are already trying to get better at the game and looking forward to tournaments are not casual at all.

That's the opposite of casual.

 

[Yuna]

Once again ... you are talking about Melee. at least that is implied.

Once again, reading comprehension fails you.

this is brawl...you are not a pro, and everyone is currently casual or noobish. Their opinions are just as equal as your own.

Once again, reading comprehension fails you. He never used the term "Pro". In fact, no one besides the Casuals do. We call ourselves Competitive.

Competitive gaming is a mindset. You can be playing the game Competitively.

Being Comptitive does not mean being really good nor does being Casual mean being bad. At the moment, yes, the overall skill level is low because few have played Brawl. Doesn't change the fact that some people are playing it Competitively (I actually am, I just don't care that much about the same).

It's not that they have opinions that's the problem. It's that most of the time, "their" opinions are wrong and they present them in stupid ways.

If they argue for items, and they have a legitmate reason (I dont think there is..this is just an example) Then you should listen to it, analyze it, and try your best to incorporate its logic into making the best ruleset possible.

Funny, you yourself are aguing for Final Smashes.

 

[NES n00b]

Once again ... you are talking about Melee. at least that is implied.

this is brawl...you are not a pro, and everyone is currently casual or noobish. Their opinions are just as equal as your own.

If they argue for items, and they have a legitmate reason (I dont think there is..this is just an example) Then you should listen to it, analyze it, and try your best to incorporate its logic into making the best ruleset possible.

???????? Yes I am talking about Melee. They have different opinions on MELEE each different from each other. I play with them, because I have fun hanging out. I don't get what you are trying to say.

The scrubs I am talking about say "Wavedashing was cheap" or something like that as arguements. And yes, they are quite vocal for a small amount of people.

 

[fr0st2k]

No, it's condescending because after reading far too many of your posts, I've concluded that you're an idiot. It's not being elitist, it's just thinking you're an idiot.


Funny, that's what everyone keeps saying about you while agreeing with me.


You've never been ostricized for disagreeing with us. You've been ostricizing for being stupid. You don't just say "I think...", you do it in stupid ways. Sometimes, you do it by flaming/insulting the Competitive community (you do this often, why, I'll never know). Sometimes, you argue something and then ignore every single post arguing against it even if they're civil. It's like "If I don't see these perfectly valid posts on why I'm wrong, then I'm not wrong".

And yet other times, you respond by repeating the same arguments, completely missing the point of our replies. You almost never even try to rebut. You just assume you're right and everyone else is wrong.

Just take the discussion on Final Smashes. I have yet to see you refute a single valid argument, yet you posted a quasi-inflammatory post in SamuraiPanda's thread just yesterday.

This is what we dislike you for. Not that you're a Casual, man, black/white/Asian/Indian/Marsian, not that you're probably 14-18 yearsold. We dislike your stupidity.


Wrongful use the words. I'm one thing, but not ignorant. I actually know what I'm talking about.


Final Smashes are items, when will you realize that?


1) SamuraiPanda said it better and in less stupid ways.
2) You were stupid.
3) You think my post in that thread was idiotic while most people would think it was eloquent and argued why validly why FS:es are bad in Competitive Play. Anyone who disagrees with you is apparently an idiot? At least I don't think that. I just argue against anyone I disagree with.

I only treat the people I feel are idiots the way I treat you.


We don't want the window opened because it's not competitive. Would you get that through your thick skull already?! Final Smashes are not competitive!


I'm not blinded at all. Had you bothered to read any of my posts and had a smidgeon of logic, you'd know that. I just Brawl as a new game. If FS:es weren't random and broken, I'd have nothing against them.


No, you really aren't.

And it's quite sad you'd think you are. You never present any arguments whatsoever other than:
* This is what I think
* You're wrong
* You're too stuck on Melee!
* Stop being so close minded!


Sports rules are made by whoever comes up with the sport. However, the rules have been changed overtime by the the people playing them.

you are such an idiot it hurts everytime i read your posts. I read each of your idiotic posts and kept thinking , "why is Yuna talking about himself and criticizing himself"

Youre posts are anything but eloquent. They arent insightful, they arent intelligent. They are meaningless rambling.

You have never argued any thing with out saying , "This is how it is! This is competitive smash! because We said so"

This "we" is the same "we" NES n00b is talking about, your elitist club.

I'll argue youre way, and we can see how utterly ******** you are when it comes to arguing.

Present 5 of my posts which support your post. If you do that, and i can't counter-argue them, ill agree with you.

Sound pretty familiar? Also sounds stupidly tedious. Good luck going through all my posts. Have fun with that....****ing idiot.


GOODNIGHT

 

[fr0st2k]

???????? Yes I am talking about Melee. They have different opinions on MELEE each different from each other. I play with them, because I have fun hanging out. I don't get what you are trying to say.

The scrubs I am talking about say "Wavedashing was cheap" or something like that as arguements. And yes, they are quite vocal for a small amount of people.

im not arguing with you. Im just trying to say, this is a brawl discussion. leave melee out of it.

yes, scrubs would say that wavedashing is cheap. And I HATE SCRUBS TOO! can you believe that???? well its true!

 

[P-X R4ZR]

We are also on a message board. Message boards are meant for discussion. We arent at a tournament.

You used the words "thrown out" so I assumed you meant a tourney, since you cannot be "thrown out" of a message board.

 

[fr0st2k]

You used the words "thrown out" so I assumed you meant a tourney, since you cannot be "thrown out" of a message board.

im sorry you misinterpretted. Thrown out was meant to mean , "not included" or "not accepted" or "not liked", or "not listened to"

 

[Bendu]

The scrubs I am talking about say "Wavedashing was cheap" or something like that as arguements. And yes, they are quite vocal for a small amount of people.

Who are usually the same casuals who say that because they realize how difficult it is to use wavedashes effectively in a match, and can't do it themselves.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

This "we" is the same "we" NES n00b is talking about, your elitist club.

How is whatever you're talking about an elitist club?

 

[Yuna]

you are such an idiot it hurts everytime i read your posts. I read each of your idiotic posts and kept thinking , "why is Yuna talking about himself and criticizing himself"

Yeah, too bad even the majority of Casuals seem to agree with me.

Youre posts are anything but eloquent. They arent insightful, they arent intelligent. They are meaningless rambling.

You apparently do not know the meaning of the word "eloquent". And too bad the majority of users disagree with you.

You have never argued any thing with out saying , "This is how it is! This is competitive smash! because We said so"

Yes I have, I do it all the time.

And the reason why I say "Competitive Smashers think this" is because in those cases, we're talking about things that concern the Competitive Smash Community. Of course the Competitive Scene will be the one to form the rules of Competitive Smash. Because we're going to be the ones using them.

People from outside of the community are free to join. I just don't see the logic in people who aren't a part of the community and who don't ever even plan on joining are trying to shape it. Why shape something you won't even be a part of?

This "we" is the same "we" NES n00b is talking about, your elitist club.

It's not elitist. Anyone's free to join. We also value all opinions... unless they're stupid.

I'll argue youre way, and we can see how utterly ******** you are when it comes to arguing.

At least I don't call others "********" instead of, you know, counter-arguing. I've never even seen you argue against my points (or anyone else's). It's like you know you'll lose the arguement and think you can win it by ignoring everyone else's very valid points and resorting to flaming and name-calling.

At least when I flame, I actually provide valid arguments at the same time... eloquently.

Present 5 of my posts which support your post. If you do that, and i can't counter-argue them, ill agree with you.

Why should I go dig up 5 posts you ignored to prove you wrong. Read through the thread(s) yourself.

Especially when so many agree with me there's a bunch of them on every page of this thread as opposed to the elusive Elitist Competitives who are so elusive very few have seen them.

And I can't help but notice how you once again ignored every single argument in my previous post and tried to change the subject.

 

[kr3wman]

How is whatever you're talking about an elitist club?

What?

If you're trying to bring something to the argument between the two camps (Which is something I wouldn't do if I were you), at least make it comprehensible.

 

[fr0st2k]

this is my last thing for the night. my teeth iz brushed, my face is washed, and im tired.

Im dont arguing. The game is coming out tomorrow night (it is friday now ^_^). Soon i can just play you all and just show you what i mean in the game.

Shouldnt that be fun. Me vs Yuna. Oh boy, i litterally can't wait for that one.
and in reponse to your last post.

many have agreed with me as well.

and its a shame you dont want to look them up. I guess that proves youre rumor of me is false, to put it how you so eloquently stated on your first post.

and you can call me stupid countless times, but when i call you ********, GOD FORBID! get the soap!

 

[kr3wman]

Yeah, too bad even the majority of Casuals seem to agree with me

The thread about the Review sure wasn't Elitist Yuna.

Although I don't agree with frost2k on some point, Everyone can be seen as a moron by certain people.

 

[Yuna]

this is my last thing for the night. my teeth iz brushed, my face is washed, and im tired.

Im dont arguing. The game is coming out tomorrow night (it is friday now ^_^). Soon i can just play you all and just show you what i mean in the game.

Shouldnt that be fun. Me vs Yuna. Oh boy, i litterally can't wait for that one.

Show us what?

That Final Smashes aren't overpowered and random? Yes, by all means, do bypass logic, cold hard facts and more. Excuse me while I combo you into Toon Link's Final Smash (Toon Link is my new epitome of Broken in Brawl since Marth's apparently been nerfed).

No matter how much you play online, you won't be able to prove anything unless you come up with valid arguments. The day I see you make a single argument about Final Smashes is the day I'll stop considering you an idiot. It's not that you make stupid arguments, it's that you even present them in stupid ways and then ignore every single valid argument against your position. That's what makes an idiot.

I don't ignore anything I can't argue against. I accept defeat and say "I guess I was wrong". The reason why you've never heard that from me is because you're never right.

The thread about the Review sure wasn't Elitist Yuna.

Although I don't agree with frost2k on some point, Everyone can be seen as a moron by certain people.

A moron is not necessarily an elitist, though.

 

[Vijin]

Shouldnt that be fun. Me vs Yuna. Oh boy, i litterally can't wait for that one.

10 bucks on Yuna.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

What?

If you're trying to bring something to the argument between the two camps (Which is something I wouldn't do if I were you), at least make it comprehensible.

I honestly don't know what he's talking about. He's calling something an "elitist club". What is it? Tourneys? The competitive scene? Smashboards as a whole? I don't know and I'd like to find out.

 

[Yuna]

10 bucks on Yuna.

Good idea. Place your bets now.

Yuna vs. fr0st2k this Sunday!

 

[Mic_128]

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't shut down this thread since it's mainly "casuals" flaming "elitists" and so on?

 

[Vijin]

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't shut down this thread since it's mainly "casuals" flaming "elitists" and so on?

Cause the smack talk will eventually lead to a wifi battle that I want to see :D

 

[kr3wman]

I honestly don't know what he's talking about. He's calling something an "elitist club". What is it? Tourneys? The competitive scene? Smashboards as a whole? I don't know and I'd like to find out.

I don't know really. But you got to know that people in real life don't use the same words for some things, even in the same language.

Spoiler

You know, like **** and Poop.

But Seriously, my 999 coins on Yuna.


@Mic

Forum Debates and Drama is so funny when it turns down to who has the bigger E-peen!

Don't close it yet.

 

[Bendu]

I'd like to point out that I think I brought a legitimate point to the table earlier on that got buried beneath frost2k's whatever.

It seems to me there is a little bit of rudeness towards casuals as a whole. This is probably fueled by the fact that there are a good many casual idiots. But generalities of casuals (us sucking at the game and hating tournament players) happen just like generalities of competitives (competitives being elitists) happen.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

I don't know really. But you got to know that people in real life don't use the same words for some things, even in the same language.

Spoiler

You know, like **** and Poop.

But Seriously, my 999 coins on Yuna.


@Mic

Forum Debates and Drama is so funny when it turns down to who has the bigger E-peen!

Don't close it yet.

I totally agree, however simply saying "...and that elitist club of yours" or something to that extent only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[Yuna]

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't shut down this thread since it's mainly "casuals" flaming "elitists" and so on?

Because amid all the stupidity, there's the elusive grain of valid discussion.

I'd like to point out that I think I brought a legitimate point to the table earlier on that got buried beneath frost2k's whatever.

It seems to me there is a little bit of rudeness towards casuals as a whole. This is probably fueled by the fact that there are a good many casual idiots. But generalities of casuals (us sucking at the game and hating tournament players) happen just like generalities of competitives (competitives being elitists) happen.

There is no rudeness towards Casuals as a whole. There's a rudeness towards Scrubs and idiots, no matter what group they're from. I flame equally based on what people say and how they say it, not who they are. I'm an egalitarian like that.

 

[Bendu]

There is no rudeness towards Casuals as a whole. There's a rudeness towards Scrubs and idiots, no matter what group they're from. I flame equally. I'm an egalitarian like that.

I realize it's usually intended at certain individuals. But the intentions get lost when they turn into generalities. The rudeness spills over to all casuals. I'm almost sure I've seen competitives well "not aiming" well and making generalities about casuals rather than going for the "target."

Edit: Lol, I put individualities instead of individuals. Give me a break. It's 3 in the morning and I just ate a swiss cheese and mustard sandwich.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't shut down this thread since it's mainly "casuals" flaming "elitists" and so on?

IMHO,you should bro,and had out warnings for future post.

 

[Undrdog]

Mic if nothing else this is a fun way to weed out the idiots and the trolls on the forum. Well, the really obnoxious ones anyway.

However I do have a simple question I'd like answered if possible.

What is wrong with competing in a game? A game that ESPN has now recognized and will eventually be aired? They're the leading broadcaster of competitive sports in the U.S. and most of the world. What's so wrong with being competitive?

EDIT: And the people we label scrubs are competitive gamers that simply would rather complain then get better. (Note I called them competitive gamers that refuse to practice. Not casual gamers that simply choose not to.)

 

[Vijin]

Because the concept of a video game being "sports-like" is unheard of to a lot of people.
Could competitive video games be considered a sport? What makes a sport a sport? I think when you think of sports, you think of football, basketball, things that are active. But heck, poker is a sport.

 

[Bendu]

EDIT: And the people we label scrubs are competitive gamers that simply would rather complain then get better. (Note I called them competitive gamers that refuse to practice. Not casual gamers that simply choose not to.)

You're my favorite. Seriously. That's the mentality I wish I saw more evidence of.

 

[Spellman]

By competitive melee standards I'm not so hot anymore. The metagame passed me by whenever my crew disbanded. I've played on and off since then and I do pretty well, but nothing special. I'm not a great smasher, even in my prime I was just pretty good, but you don't have to be a great smasher to beat players who aren't a part of the competitive circuit. This is a fact that casual players don't want to accept. It's not even being arrogant... to be honest it should be quite obvious.

If you don't play this game rigorously, search for the best competition, and play under serious pressure, you won't be able to compete against players who do. It's that simple.

O.K., so you are modest, or at least honest, but the point is, even if you thought you were hot **** at the game, I don't really think there is huge issue with that. You know when you are good at something and you're allowed to voice it, just as people have the right to say, "No you're not.". Being better then millions of people does put you on the "Good at Smash" list for sure, and I'd bet that you are. I just don't see why good players should have to hobble into a hole and never speak of their successes and what it takes to be successful. If people think that makes you an elitist, then whatever, but then how is it a problem? It's not like you're controlling people. Or pushing them away from the tournament scene.

Anyways, I really don't know about this thread...

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't shut down this thread since it's mainly "casuals" flaming "elitists" and so on?

But personally, I think you should let us have this debate.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

I realize it's usually intended at certain individuals. But the intentions get lost when they turn into generalities. The rudeness spills over to all casuals. I'm almost sure I've seen competitives well "not aiming" well and making generalities about casuals rather than going for the "target."

Edit: Lol, I put individualities instead of individuals. Give me a break. It's 3 in the morning and I just ate a swiss cheese and mustard sandwich.

Yuna's right, it's the dumb casuals that try to be competitve(and think they are) and fail hard that cause trouble and get rightfully corrected. If you've never personally been called a scrub or a bad player, then I wouldn't worry about.

 

[Yuna]

I realize it's usually intended at certain individuals. But the intentions get lost when they turn into generalities. The rudeness spills over to all casuals. I'm almost sure I've seen competitives well "not aiming" well and making generalities about casuals rather than going for the "target."

Edit: Lol, I put individualities instead of individuals. Give me a break. It's 3 in the morning and I just ate a swiss cheese and mustard sandwich.

I've never done this. No one reputable has every done this.

These people are either Scrubs or people who are getting misunderstood.

Like me saying "Most Competitive players can beat all Casual players." - It's known fact. Because of the different mindsets and experiences. Competitive players have experienced things Casual players have not. How many Casual players know about Smash-DI:ing out of Fox's Upair, for instance? I did it 5 times in a row once and the Casuals playing me were all "h4x!".

How many Casuals know how to DI out of Sheik's combos? How many Casuals don't get gimped by Jigglypuff in general?

And there's nothing wrong with it. A lot of people assume that if someone says "Because of your mindset, you play the game on a lower level than the Competitive Players", they must be insulting them, as if there's something wrong with not being among the best at a videogame, even when you're not even trying to be.

I'm a Casual gamer at a lot of games. I don't like losing but I know that I will when I go up against superior players in those games. Who can I blame? Only myself for not dedicating enough time to becoming as good as they are at said games. Do I care? No, because those games are not games I spend a lot of time trying to become good at!

 

[Bendu]

I've never done this. No one reputable has every done this.

These people are either Scrubs or people who are getting misunderstood.

Like me saying "Most Competitive players can beat all Casual players." - It's known fact. Because of the different mindsets and experiences. Competitive players have experienced things Casual players have not. How many Casual players know about Smash-DI:ing out of Fox's Upair, for instance? I did it 5 times in a row once and the Casuals playing me were all "h4x!".

How many Casuals know how to DI out of Sheik's combos? How many Casuals don't get gimped by Jigglypuff in general?

And there's nothing wrong with it. A lot of people assume that if someone says "Because of your mindset, you play the game on a lower level than the Competitive Players", they must be insulting them, as if there's something wrong with not being among the best at a videogame, even when you're not even trying to be.

I'm a Casual gamer at a lot of games. I don't like losing but I know that I will when I go up against superior players in those games. Who can I blame? Only myself for not dedicating enough time to becoming as good as they are at said games.

There's nothing wrong with saying you can beat me. Of course you can. But using rude language and saying that all casuals just suck at the game is not right. (Which I, once again, never said you did. And now realize I was probably incorrect when mentioning MookieRah earlier on.)

That's the thing, you never hear anyone says "Because of your mindset, you play the game on a lower level than the Competitive Players" you hear stuff like "You don't know how to play the game" or "you suck" or something like that.

And even if they're not reputable, I never specifically said reputable people were the only ones who did it, did I?

 

[Yuna]

There's nothing wrong with saying you can beat me. Of course you can. But using rude language and saying that all casuals just suck at the game is not right. (Which I, once again, never said you did. And now realize I was probably incorrect when mentioning MookieRah earlier on.)

These would be the Scrubs (or possibly just idiots) I was referring to earlier. The majority of all people who say "I can beat anyone! You all suck!" are scrubs who actually can't beat that many people.

Because competitive players know that there's no dishonor in not being the best at everything. Because unless they're among the Top4, they're not the best in the world and hence know that there'll always be someone better.

That's the thing, you never hear anyone says "Because of your mindset, you play the game on a lower level than the Competitive Players" you hear stuff like "You don't know how to play the game" or "you suck" or something like that.

Yeah, I don't see that a lot... especially not from Competitive Players. In fact, far more often, it's Casuals whining about the way Competitive players play that use those "arguments".

Most Competitives never even touch upon the "We're better"-argument because they most often don't have to.

And even if they're not reputable, I never specifically said reputable people were the only ones who did it, did I?

No, you didn't. Just as I never said you did. I just mentioned that reputable people don't.

 

[Bendu]

Yeah, I don't see that a lot... especially not from Competitive Players. In fact, far more often, it's Casuals whining about the way Competitive players play that use those "arguments".

Most Competitives never even touch upon the "We're better"-argument because they most often don't have to.

I know that whining part probably wasn't specifically directed at me. But really, just because "most" don't do it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. NES n00b who responded badly to my comments earlier listed some SWF members who have made these arguments. You wanted examples of "elitism" right? I'm just making observations.

No offense, but it seems like you're just going to refute my example unless I scour the forums looking for as many examples of somebody saying those types of things as I can. Like it won't matter what I say next, it's always going to be "most reputable competitives don't touch that argument" or something similar. What about the ones who aren't most?

 

[Yuna]

I know that whining part probably wasn't specifically directed at me. But really, just because "most" don't do it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. NES n00b who responded badly to my comments earlier listed some SWF members who have made these arguments. You wanted examples of "elitism" right? I'm just making observations.

No offense, but it seems like you're just going to refute my example unless I scour the forums looking for as many examples of somebody saying those types of things as I can. Like it won't matter what I say next, it's always going to be "most reputable competitives don't touch that argument" or something similar. What about the ones who aren't most?

The discussion at hand is whether a lot of people do this. It's not whether anyone do it.

My position is that very few do it. They exist, sure. But they're hardly so many it's enough of a nuisance to whine about them. I made this thread after 4 days in a row where I saw at least 3 posts of people whining about Competitive Elitist putting Casuals down simply for being Casuals (note, these people didn't complain about specific people just that there existed Elitist Compeitives) to challenge people to prove this claim.

 

[Bendu]

The discussion at hand is whether a lot of people do this. It's not whether anyone do it.

My position is that very few do it. They exist, sure. But they're hardly so many it's enough of a nuisance to whine about them. I made this thread after 4 days in a row where I saw at least 3 posts of people whining about Competitive Elitist putting Casuals down simply for being Casuals (note, these people didn't complain about specific people just that there existed Elitist Compeitives) to challenge people to prove this claim.

I understand.

But I'll just say, that as someone who's a very harsh, mean guy in real life, I know what it takes to hurt people's feelings. The amount of people not being mean isn't what matters to most people. It's the few people who are being mean. Let's say I make someone cry (which I've done several times, as I say, I'm not a nice person) are they looking around and saying, "Well there's 20 people around here who aren't being mean to me, I guess I just won't be upset about this one?"

Even a minority can reflect badly upon a community. Instead of challenging them for whining maybe another approach is preferable.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Yeah, I don't see that a lot... especially not from Competitive Players.

Turning a blind eye will do that.