Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[Oblivion129]

Yeah, I managed to do those 7 tornadoes in a row without getting punished. It did some great damage.

Zero's Jigglypuff guide was actually pretty well made, so I can see his MK one being well made, too. Probably nothing new, but great for people to get interested in MK.
He also linked profiles of Jigglypuff players in his video, so I'm sure he'll link Ito and Katakiri (he'll probably link Tyrant as well) if he makes the guide.

 

[Katakiri]

I'm actually in the process of making a video guide right now.

 

[AmishTechnology]

Ito's got the right idea... the most important thing for ANY character is simply just learning how to be competent in the neutral. You can learn the most efficient combos, coolest 0-deaths, tricksiest tricks, etc... But lacking a solid fundamental game will make you like Melee Mewtwo at best... Cool 0-70% combos sure... good recovery sure... alright kill moves, yes... but none of that matters if you can't even land the hits and gain control in the first place.

That being said, yes, combo optimization and theorycrafting is of course useful for us veterans.

 

[LostinpinK]

I saw that Bonk, warionumbah2 and myself all have kirby as a secondary, and I think it's a great choice. Even though MK can manage a lot of stuff on his own, Kirby covers Zss and Falcon convincingly, and has a decent MU against Sheik, Diddy and Fox. He might also be slightly better than MK at handling Sonic.

I think Kirby is also underrated as f. He's decent against a lot of top tiers, even counters Falcon and Zss imo.
On the top of that, he's really easy to play.

 

[warionumbah2]

I don't use kirby anymore.

In default I feel confident against everyone, even the bad MUs I never switch.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

After I have started going pure MK in tournament, I'm pretty convinced at this point that we don't really need a secondary. ZSS, Yoshi and a few others are definitely difficult but winnable. I think because of the quality of this character, a secondary for any growing player that still has to learn much with MK, isn't that helpful. It will just atrophy from your growth with this character. I might go back to using a secondary after I become seasoned with MK but for now, totally not necessary.

 

[Ulevo]

I agree. If I were to pick up a secondary, it would be because I enjoy the character. I'm confident with 100% Meta Knight.

 

[warionumbah2]

I think MUs we lose are:

Spoiler

i haven't played a competent Frog, i've played Fullmoons in the past but A) heavy lag B) He didn't know shadow sneak can interupt aerial shuttle loop. But i'm guessing he has the edge because of the shadow sneak thing.

i literally give up, every MK says that Falcon whoops our asses but i don't see it. I'm only putting him here because of the overall complaints MKs have about him.

haven't played a competent one after the patch, but i still think they win slightly.

you'll get bent over and rammed if you don't know the MU, recommend using Ftilt often against YoYo.

I don't think she's bad i'll say even but this whole 'muh neutral' reasons are getting more stale than shuttle loop. Just stop, Diddy is more dominant and his damage output and survivability is better. We win the percent war, her bair got nerfed making her kills harder to land aka MORE RAGE. What more do we need?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I think Falcon vs MK is 55-45, Falcon. It's just seems much harder if you don't know the MU because Falcon punishes pretty hard. I agree people exaggerate the MU though.

ZSS and Yoshi are among our toughest MUs easily. They aren't terrible but you really need to know what your'e doing there.

Diddy/Sonic are way more manageable now. I think Diddy is slightly harder than Sonic but they're not that bad.

Sheik is really annoying because her neutral is very strong at lower percents. Then when you start to get up in percents, she loses a lot of momentum and we become so much more deadly. I feel like its even.

 

[Ulevo]

I feel the characters that have the potential to 6:4 us are Yoshi and Sheik. I haven't played a competent ZSS, but on paper I do not see what makes this match up so bad.

 

[warionumbah2]

Let me guess. Needles and neutral game.

This is C.Falcon all over again. If MK loses to practically every top tier(except Pika and Rosa) why is he viable? Clearly there's something i'm missing here...

 

[W.A.C.]

I don't think any of the matchups for Meta Knight are so bad that he loses his viability, at least with the characters under vanilla. I can't comment on Mii Brawler, as I've never faced him with Meta Knight. Diddy Kong and Sonic were a ***** pre-patch though.

 

[Ulevo]

Let me guess. Needles and neutral game.

This is C.Falcon all over again. If MK loses to practically every top tier(except Pika and Rosa) why is he viable? Clearly there's something i'm missing here...

Out of those, how many does Meta Knight lose to?

I would say Captain Falcon possibly by a small margin, Sheik, Sonic according to others, Yoshi. ZSS is another one, though I am not sure why. I feel all the other match ups are likely even, a couple in Meta Knights favor.

None of these I would say are 3:7 for us. That's not bad.

 

[warionumbah2]

Win

Even
(We beat Dark Pit)
Lose


Edit: It seems some of you think MK beats Mario, either way we don't lose so yea.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I will eventually post my essay in the MU thread but I'm pretty sure Mario vs MK is even.

 

[Katakiri]

I've actually redoubled my opinion that MK has the advantage over Sheik. I talked it over with one of my region's better Sheik, Judo, and we feel the same way: Sheik only KOs MK by making him fall for "dumb stuff". MK's ability to jump out of Sheik's combos safely is almost 2nd to none. Most other characters get put into a terrible situation when they opt to burn their mid-air jump against Sheik. MK has 4 more jumps to burn before he's in trouble. Our recovery beats every ledge-guarding tool she has. Even in customs, MK can ignore Gravity Grenade like any projectile and teleport around it off-stage. I think her pressure with F-Air is probably the hardest part of that MU for most people but we out-range that move. I honestly just read and challenge it with F-Air or pivot F-Tilt.
55:45 MK still seems right to me.

We still lose to Sonic imo. His B-Throw isn't as potent but it still KOs fine with rage which is an issue since the main reason MK loses that MU is because Sonic can play very safe and avoid getting KOd for a long time against us. IMO this is the only MU that would require a secondary.

One thing some of you might not realize is that Diddy suffers from some of the same issues he had in Brawl against MK. For example, if Diddy has a banana in his hand, that give MK free reign to pressure him with D-Air as banana poses very little threat to MK in the air. He can Z-Drop to Aerial to punish but it requires very fast fingers to challenge our D-Air like that and we have a chance to footstool on shield-drop anyway for a safe get-away. We may not completely negate the threat of banana in the MU but we have it better than most of the cast. It's about an even MU now.

Mii Brawler tho...ugh. Grab > D-Throw > F-Air > Up-B, N-Air > Grab > F-Air > Up-B, and First Hit of F-Air > Jumping F-Air > Up-B are all true combos and KO MK starting at mid-stage at 40~50%. MK has to work 3 times as hard as Mii Brawler to take a stock off him while avoiding having his own stock taken. The MU being 10:90 Mii Brawler is no exaggeration.
Fun fact tho: Only the Smallest Mii Brawler is capable of these combos. F-Air to Up-B is never a true combo with guest sized Miis. Every character can air dodge or jump out. Thanks, AmazingAmpharos, for giving Miis special treatment and what is essentially custom equipment. What a joke.

Even if Small Mii Brawler wasn't legal, I probably would have dropped MK in customs for Fox or Diddy with Kirby still on DK-duty. I've said it before but MK is just not viable in customs. Too many MUs go far too sour because of one or two moves or combos involving those moves.

 

[Ulevo]

So, turns out we kill Mario at around 85% with DI on Delfino Plaza with an up throw at Shine Gate, Pillars, and East Island, no rage.

 

[warionumbah2]

Small miis sounds hella stupid, thank God I won't touch customs.

So, turns out we kill Mario at around 85% with DI on Delfino Plaza with an up throw at Shine Gate, Pillars, and East Island, no rage.

Did mario DI?<---- Dumb question, you can tell i just woke up.

 

[Ulevo]

Small miis sounds hella stupid, thank God I won't touch customs.

Did mario DI?

I said with DI. Without DI Mario dies at 74%.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I'm in the process of making that blog I was speaking of. I guess my intention is to simply document my progress (and I guess use as a way to advertise myself when I actually get good enough for nationals and whatnot). I'll post every tournament result and my reflections for these. I'm gonna be totally transparent. I'm excited because my last semester of school is in progress now so once I'm done, I can focus a bit more on Smash. I already have a great job so that barrier has been taken care.

 

[Ulevo]

So I'm in the process of making that blog I was speaking of. I guess my intention is to simply document my progress (and I guess use as a way to advertise myself when I actually get good enough for nationals and whatnot). I'll post every tournament result and my reflections for these. I'm gonna be totally transparent. I'm excited because my last semester of school is in progress now so once I'm done, I can focus a bit more on Smash. I already have a great job so that barrier has been taken care.

I'm in a similar position. Right now I have my registration exams coming up for my job. Once I pass those, I'll no longer need to study and just need to focus on finding a place of employment, so I'll be able to focus on Smash a lot more. I intend on going after the PR members in Ontario.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Ontario.

I live 15 minutes from the border. We will probably see each other soon. I'm headed up for that Toryuken event. Gonna be traveling a lot this summer. Best kinda experience.

Oh **** wrong one. I forgot that's this weekend haha. Soon though.

 

[Ulevo]

Ontario.

I live 15 minutes from the border. We will probably see each other soon. I'm headed up for that Toryuken event. Gonna be traveling a lot this summer. Best kinda experience.

Oh **** wrong one. I forgot that's this weekend haha. Soon though.

Where's the tournament listing for that. I might see if I can make it.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I found it on Facebook. I'm connected with many of the Canadian Smashers. It's in Mississauga.

 

[Ulevo]

So yeah.

So yesterday's Shockwave featured this Tech of the Week: http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator/v/5006780?t=3h36m08s

Spoilers: Everyone's been edgeguarding wrong

 

[warionumbah2]

Im banned from twitch so a summary would be nice.

 

[Ulevo]

Im banned from twitch so a summary would be nice.

Essentially the hurtbox where characters can be hit while recovering back to the stage is not right at the ledge, it's further out. They showcased how easy it was to ledge guard characters provided you knew where the hurtbox was, and this is why everyone keeps failing at ledge guards when they go for that 1 frame invulnerability; they keep missing the character.

 

[ItoI6]

hey i finally moved back home to oakland so i can play wifi again with a good connection anyone who wants to play send me a pm

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I have a big local event this weekend and then a regional to attend next week in Ohio. Can't wait to see how I do now. @ Katakiri are you going to Shuffle by chance?

 

[Katakiri]

@ ZTD | TECHnology Yeah I'm going to Shuffle. I travel with Cincinatti but I live just south of Columbus so I attend all their regionals and tuesday/wednesday bi-weeklies.

But speaking of traveling with Cinci, I don't think it's much of a secret that we're coming up to a MI tournament tomorrow.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Oh I didn't know you were going to AquaFire too.

TEACH ME SENPAI.

 

[Ulevo]

@ Katakiri @ ZTD | TECHnology

Vidz or it didn't happen.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm gonna win gaiz.

 

[Sol0ke]

Has anyone here played PM MK and then found it easier to transition to this MK than those that played Brawl MK?

Cause I'm one of those people.

 

[Ulevo]

Guys, important Meta Knight tech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba4JSyqyq4E

 

[warionumbah2]

That only works if the player misses the tech.

I put the vid in slow mo and Diddy hit the ground before MK slashed him.

 

[Ulevo]

That only works if the player misses the tech.

I put the vid in slow mo and Diddy hit the ground before MK slashed him.

You're ruining my attempt at a joke.

 

[warionumbah2]

You're ruining my attempt at a joke.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Today sucked.

9th out of 32 teams. 25th out of 101 singles. Ever since I started going all MK, I started getting seeded lower so my pools and brackets are ******** now. I might have to keep a secondary because I got double eliminated in bracket again. Really discouraged about today....

On the bright side, my friendlies with Katakiri were fun and he did well today. But I'm feeling a bit blue. I can't just up and beat the PR players when I'm still new to my character.

 

[Ulevo]

Today sucked.

9th out of 32 teams. 25th out of 101 singles. Ever since I started going all MK, I started getting seeded lower so my pools and brackets are ******** now. I might have to keep a secondary because I got double eliminated in bracket again. Really discouraged about today....

On the bright side, my friendlies with Katakiri were fun and he did well today. But I'm feeling a bit blue. I can't just up and beat the PR players when I'm still new to my character.

Who did you lose to? What characters? Any videos of the sets, or you and Katakiri? What was Katakiri's placement?