Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Rob is about the same quality character as MK IMO. Remove Rob from top 10 and then throw in Falcon and Fox and that's my top 10. MK is somewhere around 15 but really sure. I also don't care too much, as long as he's viable lol.

Also Marth isn't trash. But hes is not a good character lol

 

[Trunks159]

I might be wrong about R.O.B. since he seems to be one of those very good characters that suffers from match up cases. I do not think Ness, Fox, and Mario are better. Ness is too dependent on his PK Fire and grab game, and makes his neutral very one dimensional, similar to how Meta Knight would be if he didn't have some of the other options available to him. Mario is terrible at kill confirming. Fox I think is better than the former two but again he has weaknesses people are not exploiting. A lot of his neutral game is unsafe, his recovery is not being exploited, et cetera.

I think Marth being anywhere near Meta Knight is absolutely hilarious, honestly. They're not even in the same league. Marth is bad. You want any references just go ask the Marth boards. Customs do change that quite a bit, though.

Maybe its me wanting him to be good but I've seen some good stuff out of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieHO6kPrRmQ

 

[Trunks159]

double post

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Marth isn't TOTALLY incompetent but you need like the strongest fundamentals in the world to make him work in Vanilla format lol

 

[Trunks159]

double post

 

[warionumbah2]

Well i guess its our playstyles, i think Ftilt is a great move and suits me better. I never use Utilt unless its on accident similar to jab.

Wait hol up 'MKs neutral is bad' ok 'i'll put him around marf' so basically around low-mid or something? Nah man i strongly disagree, i think MK is top 20 but not top 10 and he's defo not around Marf level.

Once again a character won't completely outshine MK in neutral unless they have the ground game to back it up. In this case some of the top tiers.

 

[Deleted member]

The dream is dead for Splatoon. Mii costume fighter confirmed. #FreeWolf instead

There's also a Link costume for Miis so I wouldn't count out the Splatoon kids yet.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I placed 7th out 43. I lost to #3 and 6 on the PR. I definitely understand the Sonic MU much better now. The set was very close against the Sonic but I SDed twice with Drill Rush recovering. I died twice when I was within ledge snap range but I just fell and SDed. I blame only myself for not fully understanding the limits of my moveset. I will do better next time. I did go 100% MK though!

 

[Ulevo]

So I placed 7th out 43. I lost to #3 and 6 on the PR. I definitely understand the Sonic MU much better now. The set was very close against the Sonic but I SDed twice with Drill Rush recovering. I died twice when I was within ledge snap range but I just fell and SDed. I blame only myself for not fully understanding the limits of my moveset. I will do better next time. I did go 100% MK though!

Vidz or it didn't happen.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

No vids yet but I'll give you the link to the results if you want :D

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-playhem-weeklies-10-livonia-mi-5-7-15.401941/


EDIT: Oh so I am thinking about making a blog for my tournament experiences and what not. I go to a lot of tournaments and I do plan on traveling around a lot. I think it would fun to document all of my triumphs and struggles as an up and coming MK trying to make it in a sea of Sonics, Luigis and other silly characters. I'll call it "The Bat Chronicles".

 

[warionumbah2]

I'll call it "Gentleman Chronicles: Gentleknight cleaning the gutter trash".

---------------------------
Played the Olimar MU against a player better than me, i was getting bopped hard game after game and then in the middle of the match i thought "he's invalidating my ground game completely" then it hit me. What do i do when i fight Ganon? Go in the air, i did that and i won lol.

It was a boring match and that seems to be the only way MK can approach. Olimar doesn't have many anti air moves, then up throw wiping out Pikman gives me a short time to get some damage.

Mixing up my landings with turn around grab,nado,ftilt and DA is good. Shout out to @ Ulevo for telling me about Utilt, that **** beats so many moves lol. Can you make a chart on moves it beats out?

 

[Ulevo]

Why would I make a chart for moves it beats when it beats basically everything? Probably the only thing it might not beat is a very well spaced Rosalina down air.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'll call it "Gentleman Chronicles: Gentleknight cleaning the gutter trash".

I dunno, my MK is pretty trapp right now, rofl. Not quite a gentleman yet. It's a little hood still.

 

[warionumbah2]

Why would I make a chart for moves it beats when it beats basically everything? Probably the only thing it might not beat is a very well spaced Rosalina down air.

Lol ok nvm then.

I dunno, my MK is pretty trapp right now, rofl. Not quite a gentleman yet. It's a little hood still.

He's a knight. He's pretty ****ed tho, trying to take over a land because its lazy and boring.

 

[Ulevo]

Your Meta Knight is improving Tech. Watched one of your Mario match ups just last night at you made less mistakes in these sets. I think you need to know when to angle the Shuttle Loop. There's a couple times you missed kills because it was angled improperly for the situation, particularly that cheeky down tilt set up. Why did you counterpick Battlefield against Luigi. Were Halberd or Delfino not available?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Your Meta Knight is improving Tech. Watched one of your Mario match ups just last night at you made less mistakes in these sets. I think you need to know when to angle the Shuttle Loop. There's a couple times you missed kills because it was angled improperly for the situation, particularly that cheeky down tilt set up. Why did you counterpick Battlefield against Luigi. Were Halberd or Delfino not available?

^ He struck Halberd and I really do not like Delfino against Luigi as MK. It has backfired every time I tried previously. And thank you. I definitely see improvement as well. It's been a long month. I know the fundamentals of this character and I know what to do. I just need to become "one" with Metaknight and know all these angles and whatnot. I make good reads and get the combo setups...and then drop them a lot. That is my number one focus right now. Can't keep giving away free damage.

I also need to stop playing really dumb against our top players. Nerves get me because I'm not seasoned with MK yet. But all in due time.

 

[Trunks159]

Perfect pivot mach tornado allows for us to d-throw>mach tornado even more characters, especially if they DI away. Thought that'd be useful, since I've found myself whiffing mach tornado at times, and because d-throw> dash attack (vs away DI) seems a little lackluster.

@ ZTD | TECHnology " I make good reads and get the combo setups...and then drop them a lot. That is my number one focus right now. Can't keep giving away free damage. " Precisely. Other than that you're pretty solid. This seems to be a problem with competitive s. A problem may be dash attacks' hitboxes at different frames. Sometimes they go straight up.

 

[ItoI6]

i couldve sworn shuttle loop wouldve been a true combo out of dash attack some of those times and you didnt go for it. even if youre not sure, you should probably go for it 90% of the time if it sends them above a ledge because you can just fastfall onto it safely even if they barely airdodge. against luigi i perfect shield a bunch of fireballs, then when i see him run i dash backward, fullhop dair or buffer dtilt instantly which beats dashgrab after fireball. empty hop into uptilt to juggle is super good against luigi if youve got him in the air, he's basically forced to take a hit if you force him to jump. always bait out mashed neutral air if you land an upair below 25% by fastfalling below after a hit and shield grabbing him or whatever. if you just play super campy and try not to get grabbed its only slightly in his favor i think even though hes one of those characters its easy to go on tilt against.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Perfect pivot mach tornado allows for us to d-throw>mach tornado even more characters, especially if they DI away. Thought that'd be useful, since I've found myself whiffing mach tornado at times, and because d-throw> dash attack (vs away DI) seems a little lackluster.

@ ZTD | TECHnology " I make good reads and get the combo setups...and then drop them a lot. That is my number one focus right now. Can't keep giving away free damage. " Precisely. Other than that you're pretty solid. This seems to be a problem with competitive s. A problem may be dash attacks' hitboxes at different frames. Sometimes they go straight up.

It's just me not being intimately familiar with my trajectories on my combo starters. Experience will fix that. And that is why I'm going 100% MK these days. At this point, a secondary is pointless and it's only going to draw growth away from my main.

Also @ ItoI6 : Yeah I just get so bored in that MU and then I get punished so hard. Gotta learn to stay sharp in the face of 1,000 Fireballs.

 

[Trunks159]

Hmm, the more I play on Lylat the more I like it. The platforms are good markers for how high our cape should release to auto cancel. Our up air also goes pretty far through the stage's edges. Going under the stage is also far easier Sharking the platforms is also much easier than on Battlefield.

 

[Ulevo]

I tried out the perfect pivot Mach Tornado. Quite useful. I haven't tested it with DI, but assuming it works properly it is our most damaging follow up at lower %.

Something neat I found out is down air at around 45% ~ on most characters puts characters in to a tumble state. If you do a running short hop down air, you can follow it up with a Shuttle Loop if you hold up immediately so you don't jump and Shuttle Loop at the earliest possible frame. The window for this is only like 15-20%. However, what you can also do is use this as a set up for down tilt jab lock. What's nice is if you fast fall the down air and purposely incur the landing lag, then try to buffer a down tilt on the recovery frames, the down tilt will come out on the precise frame needed to initiate the lock if they miss the tech. You can often go short hop down air - down tilt - down tilt - Mach Tornado.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I need some assistance with the Falcon MU. I'm not really sure how to approach the neutral. I don't think its a terrible MU but it feels like both characters want to do the same thing but Falcon does everything in the neutral better. Superior close range game, better ground speed and and a legit dash grab. Not sure how to approach in that MU. My state has a butt load of Falcons and I can keep up with most of them but the better 2 usually beat me. Advice would be helpful. I need to get ready for the next event. I'm currently having a large smashfest over my house now and we had a bracket going. Just lost to two Falcons (they're brothers too lol) so it spurred me to make this post. Thanks for any advice in advance!

 

[Oblivion129]

I won a national tournament with 74 participants. I used characters like King DeDeDe, Ike, Shulk, and Captain Falcon, but in the end my best character was Meta Knight and helped me win the last set of Grand Finals!
Meta Knight's dash attack beats Wario's bite, which helped me so much in the MU. Then the last match was against Sonic, where I played pretty safe and managed to win with a time-out. Not all replays were saved, but I'll try to link some later.

I'd like to thank all you people from the board, especially @ ItoI6 for his tournament match replays which taught me so much, and @Katakiri for his combo knowledge and setups.

Trophy, T-shirt and custom GCN controller were the prizes!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I won a national tournament with 74 participants. I used characters like King DeDeDe, Ike, Shulk, and Captain Falcon, but in the end my best character was Meta Knight and helped me win the last set of Grand Finals!
Meta Knight's dash attack beats Wario's bite, which helped me so much in the MU. Then the last match was against Sonic, where I played pretty safe and managed to win with a time-out. Not all replays were saved, but I'll try to link some later.

I'd like to thank all you people from the board, especially @ ItoI6 for his tournament match replays which taught me so much, and @Katakiri for his combo knowledge and setups.

Trophy, T-shirt and custom GCN controller were the prizes!

Congrats! Who are the good people that you beat?

 

[Oblivion129]

Congrats! Who are the good people that you beat?

Thanks! My friend Nestor has a great Wario. It was the hardest MU until I switched to MK and found out Dash Attack beats the bite. There's another friend who's good who played with his Mario and Falco, but my MK did well against him. I feel comfortable in the Mario/Dr.Mario MU.

Nobody "famous" since it's a Paraguayan tournament, but good players were there. I'll post replays when they're uploaded.

 

[warionumbah2]

Lol wario, he's another victim to DA --> nado. He's probably the easiest Mario we can handle, well not as easy as Doc lol.

Sheer fact that he's a better character.

Congrats man!

I need some assistance with the Falcon MU.

Getoverhere @ ItoI6

Also dash attack into nado is a good combo to start with, falcons best tool is dash grab and ours is dash attack. Im not confident on my advice in the MU. :/

Another solid kill move is running up smash.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm just going to note that you can't dash attack to Mach Tornado Falcon unless the DI is horrible. He can get out.

@ ZTD | TECHnology I'll post about this match up later when I can.

 

[warionumbah2]

At low percents with no rage if you hit with the right hitbox of DA it will work, the weak hit won't combo. Works perfectly for me.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

^ This works. I've never had an issue linking DA to Nado at 0%.

 

[Ulevo]

Maybe it is the dash attack hitbox then. I've had times where the Falco was able to jump.

 

[Trunks159]

Hmm, so in the character boards we like to discuss strategies and techniques for our character but what about strategies against ? I'm curious as to what you guys will say.

 

[Ulevo]

@ ZTD | TECHnology

So basically, couple things to keep in mind. In a lot of match ups you have the freedom to move in neutral in the air. In this one you don't, because if the Falcon can read that you'll land and he's in range he can run in for a dash grab. You can use down tilt to try and deter him from doing this but he has the option to opt for dash attack, which will win every time because of the way his feet are positioning during the attack relative to where the shoulder hits Meta Knight. So because of this, you need to learn to give Falcon some room unless you're in on him. Being close to but behind him is important. This is because it allows you to down tilt to cover options without having to worry about his jab. Also when he's close to you he can't dash grab you.

Don't try to punish Falcon if he uses down smash or up smash and whiffs. Only up smash if you're behind him. Otherwise he'll go for a jab combo and stuff you out. Speaking of jab, dash attack will beat his jab so long as you use it close enough to him. This is because the foot hitbox will hit below where his fist comes out. This prevents him from throwing out his jab in neutral carelessly.

DIing away in combos is important. Past a certain % he really shouldn't be getting anything too damaging on you.

I went in to training mode and tried dash attack to Mach Tornado and even the CPU was getting out of it at times. I really do believe this does not work guaranteed, it's a DI dependent thing and if they DI properly they can just jump out.

Mach Tornado is really good for covering ledge options. Down smash is also really good if you space it well because the spacing beats his ledge attack and if he buffers a jab from a get up it will also go through the jab just like dash attack will because of how low it hits. This allows you to cover ledge get up, ledge attack and ledge roll.

In the event you get him off stage and you're close to him with your back turned, you can actually wall of pain him to death with neutral air at low-mid %.

Down throw - up smash - Shuttle Loop is good at low % but only on stages where a platform can cover your descent, otherwise Falcon falls and gets a kill.

Big thing in this match up is that Falcon has a hard time securing a kill. His most consistent kill options are throwing out back airs and having you eventually screw up and waltzing in to one, back throw at the ledge, and a Raptor Boost. Raptor Boost with rage is scary and will kill you really early which can throw the match off. Forward smash is also deceptive in how far it goes. My roommate would often get kills on me for free because he would try to forward tilt and smash and I'd get hit not expecting it to reach. As long as you respect these options and space tightly he should have trouble killing you.

Respect Falcon at the ledge. The biggest risk you take against Falcon is when you try to recover. He has the most options against you there then at any other point in the match and if you make a wrong decision it could end your stock given his kill power. Try to mix it up and be unpredictable.

Don't try to edge guard Falcon or gimp him off stage unless you know you can. Usually it will just result in you taking free damage from up air or Falcon Dive and he gets back anyway, when you could have gotten damage or a kill read at the ledge. You can gimp him if he recovers low.

 

[Solbliminal]

If anyone here is a Shovel Knight fan, you might want to hop on twitter, facebook, or whatever site and share and / or retweet this to Nintendo. Because this is a possibility!

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[W.A.C.]

[LINK]

We should all vote for Meta Knight so ZeRo makes a guide.

 

[warionumbah2]

We don't need a guide tbh.

Edit: Especially from someone who doesn't main him, if a guide was to be made I'd prefer it be from Ito but as i said we don't need a guide. Newer MKs should research themselves like most of us did, i promise you there will be things he'll miss about MK.

 

[Ulevo]

[LINK]

We should all vote for Meta Knight so ZeRo makes a guide.

* Looks at forum posts *

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Superbat]

Still gonna vote. Meta knight needs exposure.

 

[Oblivion129]

I voted for MK for more exposure as well. I can see him going to high-mid or higher in the future tier lists.
By the way, my team also won in doubles. We did MK and Marth.

We tried doing the Mach Tornado to Shield Breaker trick, but my Mach Tornado always got the opponent. In the last match of GF we had like 2 stocks left each vs only a Jigglypuff. I did the tornado like 7 times in a row and the Jigglypuff kept getting hit lmao. I then just ended it with a Bair.

 

[ItoI6]

well hey just getting damage is good too.

i think a lot of people are hoping for some kind of super hype gamebreaking technology, but really all you need to do, and what is most effective in practice regardless of whatever theorycraft is that you just need to outplay your opponent and be smart with getting grabs.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

If Ito/Katakiri produced the meat and potatoes of the guide, I'd turn that into an incredibly pretty, formatted, easy to read guide for all.