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The Midwest Circuit: 2014

viperboy_74

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A few things:

The first thing to remember is that the point of a circuit isn't to bring in new players, or to let every player in the region be able to drive to an event in less than an hour, and it isn't exactly designed to have people go as their first tournament. The point of a circuit, at least this one, is to spark the competition for us, from a internal regional stand point. We've been a lackluster region since I've been around (2004) and something like this circuit is what forces our players to play more, to play each other more, and an overall performance boost region wide.

In order for the circuit to be effective, there needs to be a smaller amount of events with a larger turn out at each. That's the only way to get a fair and accurate point accrual from circuit events. Having so many events, and with lesser turn outs, really changes the overall outcome. An event with 30 people, the winner will get the same amount of points as an event with 80 people, its not scaled by participants nor skill level, so multiple smaller events actually hinders the overall competition. Not even to mention attempting to collect the circuit funds from that many small events will be a headache.

Looking at events, it's hardly plausible to have 5 or 6 tournaments run that many events and finish in a timely manner. It takes a lot out of a TO to run 6 events (assuming Melee, PM, and Brawl singles and doubles), and not many people are capable of running such events. It's fair to say that any tournament can feature any events they want, but we'll have to set an exact set of events that are the circuit ones. While I agree the event schedule is something that needs discussed, I mentioned specifically in the first post that the time to discuss which games we're going to feature is not now, and the logistics of tournament placement and timeline is far more important at this time.

I think we have a good thing going here in terms of formatting and design, and I agree that we need to focus on the larger scenes, as something like a circuit will make them even bigger. I do think that PA is a bit too far for the MW:E even, and their event should be grouped with Ohio, potentially Columbus. I also agree that while Kentucky and Tennessee make sense location wise, they don't generally have the turn out that a circuit event would want or need.
 

Roux

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^Yeah, I'll second the PA position there. Pittsburgh has a good scene, but it's on the very Eastern edge of the midwest. Columbus is only about 2 hrs west (I think), so it would still draw the better half of the Pittsburgh crowd while being more reasonably located for the rest of the MW.

Plus PA has road tolls.
 

MegaRobMan

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A few things:
.
I think we have philosophical differences, though the 30-80 people argument is valid, though I don't think any of the stops mentioned so far on the MW:W would get less than 40. Kansas is hella far from Chicago and didn't crack 50 entrants but that didn't stop Kels from winning Get Hype! 3.

Aren't we trying to promote fair competition though?

Not to start any sort of argument here about skill, but from results I've seen for the last 2 and a half years or so (when Darkrain started playing in KS again) top 4 melee in the MW:W (ND/SD/NE/KS/MO/IA/MN) would look like darkrain (KS), darkatma (MO) then JBM (NE) and Jace (KS) at that 3/4 spot I'd listen to an arguement either way.

hm: tyser (NE), sinister (MO), slayer (MN), though my MN might be a bit off since they dont' always post their results.

Instead of me being nice to smaller scenes I'll just call it what it is, the MW:W melee scenes that "matter" are, KS/MO/NE/MN. Iowas scene is growing and getting better especially if you include PM into the "melee" subcategory here, but there aren't any powerhouse players there.

For people who just read the last part and are laughing, sure, but I'm just saying that people trying to argue over player skill for why tournaments wouldn't matter in certain areas need to know what they are talking about in this region. Yeah, having a split circuit MW:W vs MW:E might not even be fair at all because maybe the skill isn't on this side to begin with other than our big guns, but that's how it's gonna go and it needs to be addressed as such. I'm bad but I'm from probably the 3rd best scene in the MW:W. And probably would point upwards IMHO, don't sleep on NE's overall skill.

I think it's fair to try and get other smaller/newer/olderbutlandlocked states/scenes like SD at least two tournament within 6 hours driving and ND two tournaments within 10 hours. Raykr is an old GA player on base in ND who goes to Apex and he drove 12 hours for a 15 man local in NE because that was literally the closest tournament he knew about (and he could carpool halfway with the SD players).

Since we've agreed to split up into subregions MW:W and driving and since it looks like MO and KS will get events, the format already gives an advantage to KS/MO top players as opposed to the Northern MW:W states. Like there is no middle ground tournament that is even travel without having a 4th event in IA (more fair to MN by a lot, but I'll talk to Greg about it again) or NE. And I find this to be less competitive by definition. MN gets screwed other than having their own site having to drive 8 hours and 7 hours. For the record NE's drive total would be 3ish, 5ish and 8ish. KS/MO is home, 4 hours and 7/8 hours. The turnouts in all of these areas will be generally the same, except for STL.

NE/IA should just do a shared event or something in Des Moines or Omaha. I am about 90/100% sure I could arrange that. And this would meet the having 2 tournaments 6/10 hours away for the other, smaller scenes.

I guess I should wait and see what MW:E sites will be chosen, because maybe MN will be like 5 hours from a MW:E event since you can get points in both sides.

What are the preliminary 3-4 site ideas for the MW:E?

I'll still help even if you don't listen to my opinion, though.
 

Triple R

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I'm not even on the MW:E side, but having an event in PA seems like a big stretch. PA almost touches the Atlantic Ocean. Probably would make sense for Ohio to have an event that PA could go to and not the other way around. Kinda defeats the purpose of a MW circuit when you start having tournaments in states that aren't midwest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States
 

Chronodiver Lokii

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We are not talking all of PA though
just Pittsburgh
because PA is a split state, unlike many midwestern states who actually hang out with other halves of their states

Just FYI.
 

DtJ Composer

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I'm not trying to comment on their scene or anything, I'm just saying PA has never felt like the midwest to me. Tennessee feels like more of a midwest state.

I'm with Triple R, they can compete in the circuit and Ohio's circuit tournament could easily be in NEOH but I don't feel like PA should be a host

I mean it's whatever, obviously they can draw a big tournament. Just is weird. Midwest is way too "big"
 
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Strong Badam

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@ Roux Roux I'd be sad to hear of Toasted Ravs not running doubles and would be significantly less likely to attend. I'd say if you can no longer run doubles as a result of adding another event, then you probably shouldn't add that other event as a simple point of logistics.
 
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viperboy_74

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Can we get a small voting system going for actually locations per sub-region? Here are some candidates that make sense to me, so far (in no particular order)

Shared Events: SYMY/Champaign, IL
Shared Events: St. Louis, MO
Shared Events: Chicago, IL

MW:W...........................................MW:E
Kansas City(MO)..........................Columbus(OH)
Omaha(NE).................................Indianapolis(IN)
Madison (WI)......................Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids(MI)
Cedar Rapids (IA).........................Kentucky


Obviously these locations are pending to willing and capable TO's.

The proper combination of these events should allow everyone to have 3 semi-convenient tournaments to attend.
 

Juggleguy

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Definitely Ann Arbor for the Michigan event (look at my tournament hosting history).

Replace Columbus (OH) with something in the suburbs of Cleveland (OH) because that's generally where all the activity is in that state.

I also think the Chicago event should be East and the St. Louis event should be West.

What happened to the tentative KishSquared event? He's near South Bend, IN as opposed to Indianapolis, right?
 
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viperboy_74

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I agree that Cleveland would be a great choice, especially with all this PA talk that's been going on. Do we have a representative TO from the Cleveland area that wants to step up? I was actually thinking of how Shuffle5 went when I mentioned Columbus, and can easily change.

I agree with the Chicago being East and St. Louis being West, but I also think they're both potentially our largest scenes. I'm not opposed to doing SMYM as a shared event, and the other shared in Chicago, and keeping St. Louis as a MW:W middle event.

KishSquared sent me a message to let me know that he's had a positive life experience that will hinder his smash attendance and dedication of time that's required into running an event for the circuit. I'm quite happy for him, though it's unfortunate for what we're trying to accomplish.
 
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Juggleguy

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I don't see the appeal of St. Louis being a shared event. Players in Illinois already have a huge geographic advantage for getting points in this circuit, and you'd be magnifying that with both a Chicago and St. Louis shared event. I think St. Louis is clearly in the Midwest-West anyway.
 

viperboy_74

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I actually listed all 3 as prospects, and only choosing two of those, though I see where you're coming from. I agree with your logic, and how about more like this:

Shared Events: SYMY/Champaign, IL
Shared Events: Chicago, IL

MW:W...........................................MW:E
Kansas City(MO)..........................Columbus or Cleveland(OH)
Omaha(NE).................................Indianapolis(IN)
Madison (WI)......................Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids(MI)
Cedar Rapids (IA).........................Kentucky
(St. Louis can be
substituted for any
MW:W event)
 

Coffeemug

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Hello there! I'm a TO from cleveland and would probably have the necessary resources to be part of this. I run The Shape Of Melee To Come series and help out with our monthlies.
 

Juggleguy

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^ Good candidate to run the Cleveland-area event. The last Shape of Melee installment got 70+ entrants, and it's in a great location for all of Midwest-East to attend.
 

Coffeemug

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I'd love to. I glanced over the thread, seems like an awesome concept. Is there a tentative time period in which the circuit would take place or is it still in location scouting for the most part?
 

viperboy_74

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There are a few major things to discuss still (points accumulation, payouts, What games will be featured, etc), but I'd like to keep those to a minimum until we can confirm a fair layout for event schedule. I'd really like to see SMYM the first event in this circuit, large turn outs, centralized location, but I'm still waiting to hear back from Ripple on that.

I personally think that one tournament per month would be ideal, though that's also subjective.

You're more than welcome to share ideas here, if you would like :)
 

Coffeemug

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Oh I was just curious because I know North-east Ohio/Pittsburgh has a tentative schedule laid out until July and If one was intersecting with other things I could move things around. But I don't think that will cause a problem.

As for scoring. it's just a suggestion, and gonna sound kinda stupid, but you could rip the scoring system from Mario Kart (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1) but expand it to top 16 placements of each circuit stop.
 

slartibartfast42

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As for scoring. it's just a suggestion, and gonna sound kinda stupid, but you could rip the scoring system from Mario Kart (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1) but expand it to top 16 placements of each circuit stop.
The issue here is that with a double elimination bracket, placements past 4th place aren't that clear cut. Keep in mind that results are going to be
1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th/5th/7th/7th/9th/9th/9th/9th/13th/13th/13th/13th/17th/etc., so it would be something more like (16-12-9-7-5-5-3-3-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-1) Giving points up to 9th would be top 12, and giving points up to 13th is top 16, which are probably reasonable ranges to go to.

That being said, It's probably a good idea to steal imitate systems from other successful point-driven circuits. Notable examples that I know of being MLG, Starcraft, League, Pokemon TCG, etc.
 

MegaRobMan

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I actually listed all 3 as prospects, and only choosing two of those, though I see where you're coming from. I agree with your logic, and how about more like this:

Shared Events: SYMY/Champaign, IL
Shared Events: Chicago, IL

MW:W...........................................MW:E
Kansas City(MO)..........................Columbus or Cleveland(OH)
Omaha(NE).................................Indianapolis(IN)
Madison (WI)......................Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids(MI)
Cedar Rapids (IA).........................Kentucky
(St. Louis can be
substituted for any
MW:W event)

I think we're getting closer on the West, at least.

I'll just say that I am pretty sure KCMO will end up being Lawrence, KS. A whooping 20-40 minutes difference.

Wisconsin still isn't MW:W, should be the MN event. WI-KS is like 1.75 as far as anyone from the MW:E, especially now that PITT won't be hosting probably. That's just crazy talk.

IDK if anyone from Iowa would be able to get an event in Cedar Rapids, Kuares (I forget his old Melee tag) is the only one out there. I think Iowa City is the most fair, 4 hours from like every main scene in the west (including Chicago), but they don't have anyone to do one there. Greg Dang has been running pretty competitive melee tournaments out in Ames, but he wasn't very receptive of hosting.

Might just have to sub out the STL event for IA.
 

S1 The God

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plus, as said before
excluding this region would be a bad idea, since Pittsburgh and Northeast Ohio are pretty tight knit and both groups host large tournaments together.
I don't think anyone is really grasping this

Northeastern Ohio and pittsburgh are effectively the same region. I don't think there's been a time in the past 3 years (since me and @PGH Carroll started the NEOH/PGH facebook group) where a tournament has happened in OH and no PGH players have shown up, and vice versa.
 

viperboy_74

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Unless I missed something, I didn't grasp the concept of them attempting to get two events, but rather one collaboratively.

We need more representatives from the projected locations to step up soon. spread the word if you're aware of a capable TO from some of these areas
 

Chronodiver Lokii

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I don't think anyone is really grasping this

Northeastern Ohio and pittsburgh are effectively the same region. I don't think there's been a time in the past 3 years (since me and @PGH Carroll started the NEOH/PGH facebook group) where a tournament has happened in OH and no PGH players have shown up, and vice versa.
This this this.

This crazy region can make something crazy. NEOH/PGH 2gud
 

viperboy_74

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So...can the MW:W start planning events out yet if we have it at STL/LAW/OMA/MIN?
Yeah, I think at least getting tentative schedules that a TO is willing and capable of reserving would be great, MegaRobMan. Please, for now at least, try to keep them a month apart and I fully trust your judgement in presenting adequate locations to the thread to take a poll on
 

MegaRobMan

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I guess I need to know when SMYM (or whatever) is gonna be so I better coordinate. Also knowing when the MW:E events are going to be would help to avoid overlap or like having like 2 on consecutive weekends. I mean, even if KS has one and then like NEOH has one the next weekend, that's a big commitment and maybe people from IL would wanna go to both, even though they are on way different ends.

I'll group message Lux/SB, Cook/Roux and Triple R/Bayless. I don't know who my Co-TO would be lol. Maybe someone from Iowa since I think the idea is us (Us meaning Iowa, Nebraska, South and North Dakota) having a shared event at this point.
 
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viperboy_74

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Last I talked to Ripple, SMYM was confirmed, but he hadn't done the post yet, but this was a good week or two ago, and I haven't talked to him since. I'll shoot him a message and let him know we're planning around it, basically
 

MegaRobMan

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Also this is the points system we ran for our brawl circuit last year.

1-50

2-40

3-30

4-20

5-15

7-10

9-6

13-3

17-1
 

Roux

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Yeah, smym's new venue kinda bailed and stopped communicating last I heard. So now it's back to the old church and they're in talks to set a date now.
 

viperboy_74

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Still waiting on a TO from these areas, who are willing and able to run a circuit event from May through September. Please let me know if you have an idea for this, or point them out to this thread, so we can begin our other discussions.


Kansas City(MO)
Columbus or Cleveland(OH)......(Coffeemug)
Omaha(NE)
Indianapolis(IN)......... (Dtj crew)
Madison (WI)
Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids(MI)
Cedar Rapids (IA)
Kentucky
St. Louis
 
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MegaRobMan

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Yeah idk if he reads posts lol or if he just copy/cut/lasagnas without changing stuff.

IA probably won't host.

MN probably will host.

KCMO probably be Law KS

I think WI should maybe do an event for the MW:E if that's cromulent with everyone.

Also I'm basically the Only active TO in Nebraska for smash.

And I have this new, awesome, free venue that can hold like 100+

Might try and get sponsors even

Edit: So anyway I'm saying I'd be your man for that Omaha, NE spot.
 
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viperboy_74

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Tentative locations

Kansas City(or area)(MO)
Columbus or Cleveland(OH)......(Coffeemug)
Omaha(NE)...............MegaRobMan
Indianapolis(IN)......... (Dtj crew)
Madison (WI)
Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids(MI)
MN
Kentucky
St. Louis.... Roux?
 

Roux

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Tentative locations

St. Louis.... Roux?
Yes. I'll probably hold the next Toasted Ravs in either mid-May or early June. If we miss the circuit bus on Q2/Spring 2014 Toasted Ravs, Q3 is still a possibility. That would put it sometime mid-July to mid-August. I will NOT plan to host a tourney later than mid-August as my wife is due the first week of September. Sooner would be better.
 
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