The Midwest Circuit: 2014

[MegaRobMan]

I'm actually in favor of a format like

SMYM?
MW:W and MW:E #1
MW:W and MW:E #2
MW:W and MW:E #3
MW:W and MW:E #4
MW:W and MW:E #5
FC?

So 7 events that would count towards your total score, 2 of them in IL, and then 5 wherever you choose.

As far as a time frame, I think we could realistically run 2-3 events per month without over saturation so long as we run it like

MW:W, MW:E, MW:W, MW:E, etc...

Also, I believe that if we did 10 total tournaments, every single state would have a chance to show their moves. I think that the scenes in MO/KS/IA/NE/MN and WI/MI/KY/OH/IN deserve to have a tournament each, with their being 11 truly active states in the MW, though a lot of us don't travel outside of our respective sub-sub regions, like the MW:W:W for myself, I rarely travel outside of KS/IA/MO, and when I do I go to IL, win tournaments in Kentucky and get bodied by Dr. PeePee in North Carolina, but there are a lot of players in those 10 states to where it would be interesting.

Plus the idea of having a circuit is enough to get some old players out of retirement, new/casual players to come out and game because it's serious business. This could seriously foster some major growth for not only the smash scene, but the midwest competitive gaming scene in general. If we get every state involved, the revival is maximized.

I'd personally like to keep track of the MW:W circuit and MW:E and the combined to see points. Like, you take all 7 scores from each of the sub series and see who did the best in the MW:W and the MW:E, even though it wouldn't matter for $.

If we did just 3 events and then the 2 IL events, the MW:W would be much harder to fairly coordinate, because we would have to do one in the North, one central and one south for fairness, so MN, NE/IA and MO/KS, and I think that either MO or KS would get screwed over, especially KS, with travel in terms of fairness again.

Edit: Also the more events we have the more of a pot bonus we will have for the finals.

ALso while on that subject, I think that 15%, 10 and 5% should be given to the event winner, and then the rest of the 70% should go into the championship event fund.

Edit again: I'm actually going to what's supposed to be a 40 man tournament tomorrow in Ames, IA that's gonna have players from MN going to it as well, like Triple R, so I will talk with some of them tomorrow to see intersest and stuf.

#3. For people who think that might be too many because of availability and having a job and stuff, I have a full-time job, a girlfriend who I live with, a 2 month old and a 6 year old step daughter. It's not that hard to go to to 7 events that are ~8 hours away.

 

[Roux]

Wyoming and Montana get screwed but I think that's okay :o

Even wikipedia says that's okay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

 

[Roux]

Wyoming and Montana get screwed but I think that's okay :o

Even wikipedia says that's okay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

 

[Juggleguy]

I strongly suggest the MW:E half include at least one event in Michigan, Ohio, and Pittsburgh. I support geographic equality in distance traveled, but that shouldn't result in less-deserving, less-active areas getting a circuit spot over areas that have proven to be extremely active and enthusiastic.

Michigan, Ohio, and Pittsburgh collectively have hosted the six biggest Midwest Melee tournaments since summer 2012. Please think about that for a second before proceeding.

--

The Big House 2 (128 entrants)
10/6/12 - 10/7/12
Ann Arbor, MI
http://smashboards.com/threads/road...results-october-6-7-2012-ann-arbor-mi.328569/

The Big House 3 (172 entrants)
10/12/13 - 10/13/13
Ann Arbor, MI
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-13th-2013-ann-arbor-mi.341209/#post-15904036

Fight Pitt 3 (95 entrants)
11/23/13
Pittsburgh, PA
http://smashboards.com/threads/fight-pitt-3-results-november-23-2013.342925/

SWEET XIII (101 entrants)
1/11/14
Ann Arbor, MI
http://smashboards.com/threads/sweet-xiii-results.345799/

Y-Town Throwdown (116 entrants)
2/8/14
Youngstown, OH
http://smashboards.com/threads/y-town-throwdown-i-results-and-shoutouts.347822/

Shuffle V (160 entrants)
2/22/14 - 2/23/14
Columbus, OH
(happening next weekend, but it's already up to 160 Melee pre-registrants)

--

Here is the closest any state west of Michigan has come to matching any of the above turnouts, since summer 2012:

SMYM 14 (72 entrants)
3/23/13
Champaign, IL
http://smashboards.com/threads/smym-14.335182/

Winter Warehouse Throwdown 2 (81 entrants)
11/23/13
St. Cloud, MN
http://smashboards.com/threads/winter-warehouse-throwdown-2-results-11-23-2013.342948/

EXP 6 (88 entrants)
12/28/13
Chicago, IL
http://challonge.com/EXP6_Melee_Singles

 

[MegaRobMan]

So now Pennsylvania is part of the MW:E? I mean I think it's a great idea for yall, but I think it's like Colorado for the MW:W.

ALso I talked to people in MN/KS/IA about the circuit and having an event there, sounds like the MW:W is down so far to have events in MN, KS, MO and NE, but the people I figured would be interested in running an event in IA both turned it down.

 

[KishSquared]

I don't think I'll be hosting an FC anytime soon. KishPrime trademarked "MLEE-FC", a typo for the ages, but the spirit of the law (and my immense respect for trademarks) prevents me from ever hosting another one without his permission.

Fortunately, Joshu never trademarked "FOB", so I'll just steal that. Sign me up for a middle-circuit event if there's a slot open - maybe place the joint circuit event in Chicago.

 

[Solharath]

Sometimes I forgot how big the Midwest is in sheer size. In my opinion there should be a completely different region for some of these states, specifically Nebraska, SD/ND, Montana and Wyoming should be their own region. Call it Mountain or something. Kansas is practically SW.

Either way, if you try and toss a MW:W tournament in SD(rather than ND), I'd be exceptionally surprised to see more than two smashers from IL make it out. Wisconsin, too. From somewhere like Champaign, IL, that's almost as far as I drove for APEX, which I thinkis a little larger than a mid-circuit event. We're talking an entire day of driving, not just an 8-hour shift. But I'm MW:E I guess(livin' on Lake MI), and I don't know how truly active Nebraska and Kansas' scenes are. I know they've produced good players, but putting more than 2 of your 5 events out there instead of trying to bring them as near to MW:E as possible... I dunno, I feel like you'd have a better chance pulling from the larger numbers here in MW:E than pulling from states as far as ND.

Moving on from the sheer power of driving, I'm in full agreement to Juggleguy - there may be call for pulling two events in MI and/or OH. PA, too. Although personally I'd like to see what IN has to offer, that state has been really quiet and I forget it even exists sometimes, until I have to drive through all the corn. And the corn. And the corn.

 

[viperboy_74]

At my current stance, this is what I think will work best:

total of 5 tournaments per sub-region, including the intro and the finale

in terms of logistics, i think this is most practical, or something similar

MW:W....................MW:E
SMYM(ripple)..........SMYM (ripple)
Kansas(maybe KC)..Michigan
Iowa........................Ohio
MN or WI..................Kentucky
FoB (Kish2).............FoB(Kish2)

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

So now Pennsylvania is part of the MW:E? I mean I think it's a great idea for yall, but I think it's like Colorado for the MW:W.

ALso I talked to people in MN/KS/IA about the circuit and having an event there, sounds like the MW:W is down so far to have events in MN, KS, MO and NE, but the people I figured would be interested in running an event in IA both turned it down.

just pittsburgh. PA West.
PA is actually split into different and very separate communities, whereas neighboring states are more grouped together (back in the days of the God Kais in Brawl, for instance, Ohio was split into 3 larger communities with smaller sub communities, but we communicated and planned events together and considered Ohio as a huge community. PA East and West dont share those sentiments). In my time in Pittsburgh, the only time we would see PA:East is during bigger events (sometimes they wouldnt even travel to go to our events) and even then they are two very different communities. They are closer to the Jersey scene, and are actually included with Jersey in many events.

Cleveland and Pittsburgh in terms of Melee are actually interconnected as communities. It would be an absolute waste to not include their scene in this. Especially since Pittsburgh is about 40ish minutes from Ohio and the youngstown area.

And i know Pittsburgh would be ecstatic to host an event. Carroll always gets good turnouts, and the last Fight Pitt bearsfan hosted was a sleeper in terms of attendance (suddenly 100+ people were in the building)

 

[MegaRobMan]

Sometimes I forgot how big the Midwest is in sheer size. In my opinion there should be a completely different region for some of these states, specifically Nebraska, SD/ND, Montana and Wyoming should be their own region. Call it Mountain or something. Kansas is practically SW.

Either way, if you try and toss a MW:W tournament in SD(rather than ND), I'd be exceptionally surprised to see more than two smashers from IL make it out. Wisconsin, too. From somewhere like Champaign, IL, that's almost as far as I drove for APEX, which I thinkis a little larger than a mid-circuit event. We're talking an entire day of driving, not just an 8-hour shift. But I'm MW:E I guess(livin' on Lake MI), and I don't know how truly active Nebraska and Kansas' scenes are. I know they've produced good players, but putting more than 2 of your 5 events out there instead of trying to bring them as near to MW:E as possible... I dunno, I feel like you'd have a better chance pulling from the larger numbers here in MW:E than pulling from states as far as ND.

Moving on from the sheer power of driving, I'm in full agreement to Juggleguy - there may be call for pulling two events in MI and/or OH. PA, too. Although personally I'd like to see what IN has to offer, that state has been really quiet and I forget it even exists sometimes, until I have to drive through all the corn. And the corn. And the corn.

Post was liked because it made me smile.

I already stated that ND/SD already said that they would prefer having a tournament in Nebraska or Minnesota as a neutral site that fits their needs and we are going to ignore WY/MT.

As the previous post shows, a lot of times separate states are more involved in the scenes of other scenes vs inner state scenes.

You don't really know who plays with who in this part of the MW, I kinda know what's going on in the MW:E but it's because I read results threads.

The scene out here is basically Nebraska and Iowa are more of one scene than any of the other ones you just grouped us with. It's the same with Nebraska and Kansas as well.

NE/IA/MO players usually go to KS events.
IA/KS/SD/MO* players usually go to NE events.
MO/KS/NE/MN/IL(sometimes) players usually go to IA events. Only player I have seen from WI who has been to IA for a few years is YoshQ, melee or brawl.
IA/KS/NE players usually go to MO* events.

For example. Players from KS are going to Toasted Ravs this weekend instead of Shuffle, which is in STL, even though one of them is supposed to get like 100000000000000 players and is a MW tournament and is sponsored by MLG.

Nebraska really only has one scene in Omaha for smash.
But KS has a lot, Lawrence, Wichita, Manhatten, etc...
MO has a lot too, Springfield, KCMO, STL, etc...
IA has some small scenes in Des Moines, Ames, Iowa City, etc...

*For the purposes of this, STL's smash scene and Nebraskas smash scene (and Wisconson, for that matter) haven't mixed for a while outside of my own personal appearances in Chicago, and Get Hype 3! in KS. IA/KS/MO players fully intermingle across the state.

I'm not gonna lie, I've talked to a state representative in all the MW:W (NE/KS/IA/ND/SD/MO/MN), and even most of the people in the MW:W who would potentially HOST a tournament (not necessarily run it) except for Roux, and people seem to think, at least in the MW:W, we should do 4-5 events out here outside of IL. Problem as I said is that there might not be anyone in Iowa to run an event, but I am going to Iowa City in 2 weeks to talk to someone else and see how his tournament goes. People were interested in hosting melee, pm and brawl (and possibly even 64!) at all 3 of the YES scenes so far (as I said I haven't talked to Roux and Iowa doesn't have a TO but they would like to host an event).

After this past weekend, Nebraska and MN have developed a friendly rivalry of sorts, as well.

The problems with Viperboys method where he gives the MW:W MI (I hope that he meant MN) and WI as places to go to is that most people from the rest of the MW:W areas just won't go to. Knowing that from the start, that gives an unfair advantage in any system, especially when people like StrongBad have already made that be known on this very thread. If he meant MN then, yes, that's a fair idea.

Then there's the fact that there might not be anyone to host an event in Iowa, unless I did one in like Council Bluffs or Glenwood, but if I did that you may as well make the extra 20 minutes to Omaha.

And if we are trying to reward scenes with big populations and attendance, I'm pretty sure STL is going to maximize players.

"Chicago is the largest city in the American Midwest and the third largest in the entire country. Other large Midwest cities include (in order by population): Indianapolis, Columbus, Detroit, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Omaha, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Wichita and St. Louis. Chicago and its suburbs form the largest metropolitan statistical area with 9.8 million people, followed by Metro Detroit, Minneapolis–St. Paul, Greater St. Louis, Greater Cincinnati, Greater Cleveland, and the Kansas City metro area.[2]"

I just learned Omaha has a higher population than STL?

 

[Strong Badam]

Springfield, MO scene is ded.

 

[viperboy_74]

totally meant MN for my projection, sorry

 

[Triple R]

I haven't talked with the person who host's the Warehouse tournies about this much yet. I was hoping he would come in here and post at least.

My idea is that Warehouse 3 would be an event for this circuit. Warehouse 2 had over 80 melee entrants. Overall I believe there were over 100 attendants. At this point Warehouse 3 has been postponed. It was originally suppose to be March/April? It's on hold until further notice. I'll have to talk to the host, not 100% sure what the current status is.

It would be located around Minneapolis/St. Paul. Probably about an hour out of the cities.

Just wanted to post to at least let everyone know I'm interested in this. Not sure what everyone else in MN is thinking right now.

 

[standardtoaster]

@Bayless speak up about throwdown

 

[onionchowder]

Rather than trying to spread the tournaments around the region geographically, why don't we just get a list of major tournaments/TOs that might happen, and then go from there? It sucks for the rural western end of the MW, but then again it's their own fault for not having a robust tournament scene.

 

[Juggleguy]

At my current stance, this is what I think will work best:

total of 5 tournaments per sub-region, including the intro and the finale

in terms of logistics, i think this is most practical, or something similar

MW:W....................MW:E
SMYM(ripple)..........SMYM (ripple)
Kansas(maybe KC)..Michigan
Iowa........................Ohio
MN or WI..................Kentucky
FoB (Kish2).............FoB(Kish2)

What has Kentucky done to warrant a circuit spot at all? I don't mean any offense, I just doubt they've hosted any Melee tourney bigger than 50 entrants in years. Pittsburgh would be twice as good of a choice.

 

[MegaRobMan]

just doubt they've hosted any Melee tourney bigger than 50 entrants in years.

 

[viperboy_74]

Very solid point, do we have a representative from Pennsylvania?

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

@PGH Carroll and @bearsfan092 would be two good candidates from Pittsburgh.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Why shouldn't KY and PA both get events?

I honestly don't see why we don't just make the circuit like 12 events, 2 in IL, and then 10 elsewhere and you get the best score of 5.

All of the 7 MW:W state representives I've talked to think having more events is for the better. Only question is what events should we run, and at this point it looks like 3 or 4 smash games would be optimal.

More pot bonuses is good.

More tournaments in general is good.

More tournaments with mixed area codes is good.

More tournaments with mixed games is good. We are family and ****.

Constantly only rewarding the bigger scenes isn't always the best option in the long run for a melee "revival". You aren't really reviving anything if it's already thriving (like 50+) at your tournaments anyway.

Not saying we should have events at places with 8 man tournaments. At least in the MW:E

But 50 people is a respectable turnout, and if people from other surrounding states/areas are "forced" to travel to more places, that number will shoot up and if more people locally see how hype the tournaments are and how we got "all the good players from far away", hipseters, uberasuals, wifi warriors, youtube and twitch tv followers and people who are 30 and live in their parents basements and game with their friends*, will come out of the wood work, possibly with their friends, to tournaments.

 

[Roux]

I think this needs to happen a little more organically. I don't like the idea of hosting new tournaments in new areas just for the sake of the circuit. Why not just take a look at the bigger tournaments that will already be happening, then ask those TO's if they want their tournament as part of the MW:W or MW:E (or shared) circuit, depending on their geographic location. A 20-entrant melee tourney in South Dakota would just be free points.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I mean, it's probably going to be your event, lux's event in KS and the warehouse in MN if we do 3 events in the MW:W.

No one is suggesting doing an event in SD.

I just think adding an event in IA and/or NE would be easy (if IA had a TO), just like adding another event on the MW:E side would be eas(ier).

 

[Roux]

What are some tournaments that are already happening, or will happen in the MW:W between SMYM and the end of the circuit? I know you're interested in reviving small scenes, but I don't think a circuit is the best tool for that. I would dislike going to a tournament in a far-off state, at a new venue, with an inexperienced TO, with a questionable surrounding smash scene. Population of cities has little to do with the population of smash scenes, and we can't bank on people coming out of the wood-work to build this circuit on. We really need to stick to familiar and tested tournament series for this circuit. More events would be better, yeah, but contriving a doomed-to-be-miserable tournament would not be.

And this isn't about reward big scenes and depriving small ones, it's about developing the already active players and generating some more MW hype and passion. From there the scene will grow.

For now, let's just get a list of all the MWW tourneys that are definitely going to happen in the circuit timeframe and go from there.

 

[standardtoaster]

Only one I know of is in St. Cloud Minnesota. Warehouse Throwdown 3. Date of it is currently in the air but Bayless can decide on a date to best fit the circuit

 

[MegaRobMan]

Delux is on his 4th Get Hype tournament yearly in KS.
I assume you (Roux) are gonna run something since you just had a 90+ tournament.
Warehouse in MN.

Then, there is nothing that is annual or anything, but I KNOW that Iowa would gather people, but they don't have anyone to run it.

I know I can run it and I have the space, and I can get people that other places can't (South/North Dakota players), and we have a scene of a lot of players, some of them pretty good, but I think Iowa would get more "randoms" than Nebraska would.

 

[Roux]

Cool, then lets do Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri and Iowa to be the 4 MW:W circuit tourneys. We'll ask the TO's if they wanna do the circuit thing and then just make sure the dates are okay. We might have to push Iowa a little to make sure they put a tourney together, but it's pretty central for MW:W so it should draw enough.

 

[DeLux]

Just for the record, the HYPE! series has also been Strong Bad's event as well since HYPE! 2

 

[Roux]

Just reviewing... I guess that depends on whether we want to settle on a 5-event or 6-event circuit.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Iowa is like a 20% chance of working. I even talked to Yink yesterday about it. She wants to wait til Smash 4 to get back into hosting.

For the record, I have talked to greg dang (ames), joker (DM), JBM (he is Nebraska but lives in Iowa), Geek (Iowa City) and Yink (Iowa City) about it, and none of them can do it, and Geek specifically doesn't have the XP stats to run it, imho, given yesterdays tournament. Wasn't badly ran, just doesn't seem like he knows it yet.

Good TOs don't just run on trees. As I said, if we just want one in Iowa, I could maybe find a venue in Council Bluffs or Glenwood, but it's only like 20-2 minutes more to drive to Nebraska from those points.

 

[Solharath]

I'm sorry but at this point it's really unclear to me what games we're planning to run? I mean, we're throwing around tournaments series names and while I could look them all up, I am a little curious if they're all Melee events, or Melee and Brawl, etc. I'd imagine it's a strong Melee resurgence, but events run by Strong Bad are being talked about so obviously we're looking at PM as well.

Is the circuit all three games? What about doubles? Are these actually answered and I missed the answers somewhere along the line?

 

[DeLux]

We've run Melee at every HYPE! since HYPE! 2 with it being a focal point on the last one with the pre-Evo build up.

I (and Strong Bad I assume) intend to host all four games with our strongest suits being Brawl and Project M. However, if the numbers are helped from the circuit then we'd be more than willing to cater to Melee as well.

 

[Strong Badam]

The biggest games in the MW are Melee and PM. Brawl is still around too, in pockets here and there. 64 is like nowhere. It logically follows that the circuit would cater to the games that are popular here.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I think the MW:W is probably going to try and run all 4 events.

 

[Roux]

I'm not running 64. That's ridiculous. I'll host Brawl in our space, but I'm not TO'ing it.

 

[Roux]

And to answer the original question, I usually run doubles, but if this circuit does happen at the STL tourney, it will probably just be singles.

 

[DeLux]

You don't have to have all the events as part of a circuit.

For example, at HYP3! we ran Brawl as the MWW Championship, but the rest of the events weren't affiliated with any circuits.

The same could be done with Melee just as easily.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Pittsburgh is in the midwest???

That's too far dang
It'd make more sense geographically for Tennessee to host one wouldn't it?

 

[Juggleguy]

Maybe we have a different idea of what Midwest is. Honestly, a tourney in Pittsburgh is no more outlandish than a tourney in South Dakota, Nebraska, or Kansas. If we agree that Chicago is the unofficial center of the Midwest, well, then Pittsburgh is actually closer to the center than any of those three states are. Look at the driving distances and more importantly, the inter-state crossover attendance, and I think you'll agree.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Getting to Omaha is about the same time as getting to Pittsburgh, give or take 20 minutes, from Chicago,

Also no one has seriously suggested an event in SD, the SD and ND reps have said they want one in NE and/or MN.

Having a tournament in Kansas is a no brainer.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Maybe we have a different idea of what Midwest is. Honestly, a tourney in Pittsburgh is no more outlandish than a tourney in South Dakota, Nebraska, or Kansas. If we agree that Chicago is the unofficial center of the Midwest, well, then Pittsburgh is actually closer to the center than any of those three states are. Look at the driving distances and more importantly, the inter-state crossover attendance, and I think you'll agree.

plus, as said before
excluding this region would be a bad idea, since Pittsburgh and Northeast Ohio are pretty tight knit and both groups host large tournaments together.