The Metagame Discussion Thread

[ss118]

Really, this thread is dedicated to the discussion of trends in the current Platinum metagame. You can include anything you want to in your post, just make sure it IS relevant!

I have to say that the metagame is shifting into a bulky-offense/ stall sorts, as the quick+weak+powerful teams get overwhelmed if something goes awry for them, and these kind of teams have something to lean back on.

As far as starters go, this is definitely the best out there:

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Bullet Punch
Explosion

Let me explain why I think so:

Azelf- Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch KOs. Reflect versions may give you trouble, but if you see that then Explode after it and they lose one of two things: Light Screen or Stealth Rock.
Metagross- Earthquake 2HKOs. That's awesome, and they can't OHKO you back without it being obvious why(or making themselves set-up bait).
Jirachi- Earthquake, again, 2HKOs, but it can be tricky if they Trick you and then you don't know if they will attempt to set up SR or switch out to an immunity.
Swampert- Explode. Done and done xD
Aerodactyl- If you sketchy on MM accuracy, Bullet Punch 2HKOs and does the same result, though I like the attack increase personally.
Hippowdon- Explode. Great fun.
Infernape- Occa Berry lets you take a Fire Blast/ Overheat and EQ + BP it.
Bronzong- I've had so much fun with this one: Earthquake first and if it has Levitate, MM+ Explosion usually kills.
Ninjask- MM spam then BP when the time is right. if it gets to the point where they WILL get off a Baton Pass, just Explode.
Heatran- Shuca/ Specs will be able to beat you: I usually Earthquake both turns and we trade-off stripping the items, hope for a miss, and make sure they don't SR for free.
Tyranitar- Meteor Mash.

Every other starter appears less than 2% of the time from that point on. As you can see it is highly effective and though it doesn't run SR itself it makes the opponent think twice about putting it up themselves.

Anything you want to share that would also be effective? Maybe something annoys you and you need help beating it? Specific trend you noticed? This is the place to talk about it.

 

[Niiro]

oh god, i haven't played OU for like forever >.>
why do you need to run jolly? what do you outspeed?

 

[Circa]

If I had to guess, it's so you outrun adamant Metagross. You're still a viable threat against about every other lead despite the sacrifice in power, and you're even taking out yourself with no problems. He's right; that lead is beast.

Also, is it just me or is there a lot less SR running around? The only time I ever seem to see it (or even spikes, for that matter) is when I'm taking on that pissant phazer Skarmory.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

If I had to guess, it's so you outrun adamant Metagross. You're still a viable threat against about every other lead despite the sacrifice in power, and you're even taking out yourself with no problems. He's right; that lead is beast.

Also, is it just me or is there a lot less SR running around? The only time I ever seem to see it (or even spikes, for that matter) is when I'm taking on that pissant phazer Skarmory.

Only if it is a lot less within the past few days.

I've seen a ton of Tentacruel and Foretress in the past few weeks - so much that I think the focus sash is a near useless item.

 

[Deleted member]

let's make a team with this, and the holy trinity (scizor heatran rotom) and vaporeon cause it works on every team, and something for filler. bam, team.

edit: whats a good filler?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

let's make a team with this, and the holy trinity (scizor heatran rotom) and vaporeon cause it works on every team, and something for filler. bam, team.

edit: whats a good filler?

Is that a joke?

By the way, Tentacruel is a good filler.

 

[Circa]

Only if it is a lot less within the past few days.

I've seen a ton of Tentacruel and Foretress in the past few weeks - so much that I think the focus sash is a near useless item.

Oh hey, I forgot about Forretress (I haven't seen any Tentacruel for some reason). Oh well. That thing doesn't bother me anyway. I just started to think there was a lack of it because I actually put a spinner on my team for once. And since he's been there, I think I've only had a use for him once. Any other time he was just getting sent out as some odd form of wall.


EDIT: @Mow: Throw Breloom on that for gay play. THEN you have your team.

 

[Niiro]

DD gyra. and salamence>heatran noob. LOL

 

[The Halloween Captain]

DD gyra. and salamence>heatran noob. LOL

Too many stealth rocks.

 

[Hobobloke]

Throw on choice specs latias as a filler, I<3 my latias.

 

[CT Chia]

why is rotom part of the holy trinity?

chibofree for filler?

 

[whiterob]

I'd like to contribute a little:
Whatever relevance toxic spikes had to offensive teams is now completely gone. Pure offensive teams are now completely uneffected by toxic spikes, or have one thing max that is effected. First you have your court mandated steels of Metagross, Lucario, Heatran, Empoleon, Scizor all which aren't effected. Next you have your levitators, Rotom-A, Azelf, Gengar (he wouldn't care anyways ahurrdurr), and Flygon. Then you have flying types Gyarados and Salamence, and king douchebag himself, Breloom.

So basically the point I'm trying to make is if a team shows the symptoms of pure offense, don't waste two turns doing something that at the most will effect their one Tyranitar, Infernape, Mamo, Kingdra, or Starmie (who still could RS them away and then ditch the poison because of natural cure).


Just a couple of other observations:
If they have a Latias, there is a great chance they also have Lucario. They resist each others sh*t and Latias counters are set up fodder for Luc. Latias get a CB pursuit to the face by Tar or Scizor, the Luke comes in to SD to reek havoc.

I don't understand the point behind DD/Waterfall/SleepTalk Gyarados. It's like a crappy Suicune. In order to make the set work, you have to pump Gyara with HP and Def evs. This leaves you slow and weak as hell. Sure Scizor's uturn doesn't do anything to you, but you can't really hurt whatever they switch in. Even with a DD, Rotom is still a 2hko so your gonna have to switch out, which then brings up this sets other weakness SR, something suicune has less to worry about. Crocune works because of Suicunes natural bulk,typing, and calm mind. Gyarados has a 4X weak, something Suicune doesn't have, and unlike Suicune, it has no way to alleviate it. With Calm Mind and 252/252 HP/Def, Suicune becomes difficult to kill from both sides. After a couple calm minds, suddenly that Starmie and Celebi's attacks don't work anymore. On the other hand, Gyara's weak *** Waterfalls won't hurt them, he isn't even faster than Starmie after a DD, and his defenses haven't been boosted at all which means their attacks are still gonna f*ck you up.

 

[Niiro]

Too many stealth rocks.

huh. wtf is that supposed to mean? heatran is overrated imo. atleast the scarf versions. it is way to **** easy to predict them, and it is mostly a free switch in for me lol.
edit: i get it now lol. SR damage is not THAT big of a deal, unless you switch in and out like a moron. it is just a minor irritance.

but on another note: i'm see a **** load of scarfgons, wtf is happening lol. and so many people now are spamming u-turn >.>

 

[AfroThunderRule]

That set is so obvious. >.>

<.<

With Infernape I fire Blast him then switch to Magnezone, Dead Metagross.

 

[Deleted member]

why is rotom part of the holy trinity?

chibofree for filler?

holy trinity = scizor heatran rotom-H

scizor is god
heatran is jesus
rotom is the holy ghost

 

[ss118]

I don't understand the point behind DD/Waterfall/SleepTalk Gyarados. It's like a crappy Suicune. In order to make the set work, you have to pump Gyara with HP and Def evs. This leaves you slow and weak as hell. Sure Scizor's uturn doesn't do anything to you, but you can't really hurt whatever they switch in. Even with a DD, Rotom is still a 2hko so your gonna have to switch out, which then brings up this sets other weakness SR, something suicune has less to worry about. Crocune works because of Suicunes natural bulk,typing, and calm mind. Gyarados has a 4X weak, something Suicune doesn't have, and unlike Suicune, it has no way to alleviate it. With Calm Mind and 252/252 HP/Def, Suicune becomes difficult to kill from both sides. After a couple calm minds, suddenly that Starmie and Celebi's attacks don't work anymore. On the other hand, Gyara's weak *** Waterfalls won't hurt them, he isn't even faster than Starmie after a DD, and his defenses haven't been boosted at all which means their attacks are still gonna f*ck you up.

Gyarados is not weak no matter what: 125 base attack fixes that, so even with no investment it can still do a decent bit of damage. Gyarados has a nice fighting resist and intimidate that lets him come into Lucario while it SDs, unlike Suicune who promptly gets KOed(SR doesn't even seal the deal on Gyarados). Both pokemon are most useful when the opponent has nothing able to solidly kill them, and with the current metagame Gyarados sets up MUCH more easily than Suicune. Both Gyarados and Suicune get ****ed by Electric attacks so don't even say otherwise, so the 4x weakness doesn't make a difference otherwise. The resists are where it counts, not the weaknesses.

 

[0RLY]

*shocked* Has Metagross always been able to kill Hippowdon with Explosion?

 

[ss118]

pretty much yeah

Then again, other than defensive resists and ghosts, what can?

 

[0RLY]

*wild guess* Cresselia?

 

[Pr0phetic]

Guys this dude used some super Shedninja set. most hits couldnt effect it, nd my Fire Punch did 100%, but his Focus Sash saved it, and it retained all 100% hp. Broken? 0.o

 

[drcossack]

Guys this dude used some super Shedninja set. most hits couldnt effect it, nd my Fire Punch did 100%, but his Focus Sash saved it, and it retained all 100% hp. Broken? 0.o

Joke Post?

 

[WouW]

Dumb Post.

 

[CRASHiC]

People underestimate Arcanine. He can be a great suicidal starter, taking down many common leads, especially Skarmory. I have killed many Blissey with my choice band Flare Blitz.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

Skarmory as a starter? Wut?

Also, CB Scizor > SD Scizor

Fact. :o

 

[Platypus]

You know, Encore is seriously underrated, as is Vigoroth. Why doesn't anyone use it?

 

[WouW]

Vigoroth is never used because basically pokés like Kangaskhan do everything better.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Really, this thread is dedicated to the discussion of trends in the current Platinum metagame. You can include anything you want to in your post, just make sure it IS relevant!

I have to say that the metagame is shifting into a bulky-offense/ stall sorts, as the quick+weak+powerful teams get overwhelmed if something goes awry for them, and these kind of teams have something to lean back on.

As far as starters go, this is definitely the best out there:

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Bullet Punch
Explosion

Let me explain why I think so:

Azelf- Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch KOs. Reflect versions may give you trouble, but if you see that then Explode after it and they lose one of two things: Light Screen or Stealth Rock.
Metagross- Earthquake 2HKOs. That's awesome, and they can't OHKO you back without it being obvious why(or making themselves set-up bait).
Jirachi- Earthquake, again, 2HKOs, but it can be tricky if they Trick you and then you don't know if they will attempt to set up SR or switch out to an immunity.
Swampert- Explode. Done and done xD
Aerodactyl- If you sketchy on MM accuracy, Bullet Punch 2HKOs and does the same result, though I like the attack increase personally.
Hippowdon- Explode. Great fun.
Infernape- Occa Berry lets you take a Fire Blast/ Overheat and EQ + BP it.
Bronzong- I've had so much fun with this one: Earthquake first and if it has Levitate, MM+ Explosion usually kills.
Ninjask- MM spam then BP when the time is right. if it gets to the point where they WILL get off a Baton Pass, just Explode.
Heatran- Shuca/ Specs will be able to beat you: I usually Earthquake both turns and we trade-off stripping the items, hope for a miss, and make sure they don't SR for free.
Tyranitar- Meteor Mash.

Every other starter appears less than 2% of the time from that point on. As you can see it is highly effective and though it doesn't run SR itself it makes the opponent think twice about putting it up themselves.

Anything you want to share that would also be effective? Maybe something annoys you and you need help beating it? Specific trend you noticed? This is the place to talk about it.

the metagame has turned to complete **** thanks to the additions of plat. Hence why I quit. Too much centralization.

 

[philbobjoe]

But when something is more centralized, it is easier to counter.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

But when something is more centralized, it is easier to counter.

You noticed it too

This metagame needs to evolve more, because it's too easy to counter. Extremely predictable, lots of common weaknesses, etc. I'm just waiting for the day my new favorite pokemon becomes OU.

 

[philbobjoe]

And what pokemon may that be?

 

[Circa]

And what pokemon may that be?

Probably Farfetch'd.

Because I know that's the day I'm waiting for.

EDIT: On a sidenote, I'm really hoping that Garchomp makes it back into the OU metagame with his trip into the Suspect Ladder. :D As of right now, I really see no reason why he wouldn't be. I mean, sure he's decently fast, sort of bulky, and a powerful mofo, but he's still not invincible. And I think he needs to come back so he can partially uncentralize the current centralization (or that's at least what I'm hoping he'll do). I mean, he's a counter to a great deal of the current metagame, and his weaknesses would probably cause a rise in Pokes that have been falling down in usage (or are possibly at a standstill...I'm too lazy to check back and confirm drops); like Weavile and the sort.

 

[philbobjoe]

I wouldn't complain if Garchomp is back.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

And what pokemon may that be?

Clefable. FEAR IT!

 

[drcossack]

Probably Farfetch'd.

Because I know that's the day I'm waiting for.

EDIT: On a sidenote, I'm really hoping that Garchomp makes it back into the OU metagame with his trip into the Suspect Ladder. :D As of right now, I really see no reason why he wouldn't be. I mean, sure he's decently fast, sort of bulky, and a powerful mofo, but he's still not invincible. And I think he needs to come back so he can partially uncentralize the current centralization (or that's at least what I'm hoping he'll do). I mean, he's a counter to a great deal of the current metagame, and his weaknesses would probably cause a rise in Pokes that have been falling down in usage (or are possibly at a standstill...I'm too lazy to check back and confirm drops); like Weavile and the sort.

The problem with Chomp is that he's usually paired with something that has Sandstorm (T-Tar, Hippo), and he runs Scarf/Yache. Yache knocks out the chance for a Banded Shard to OHKO. Ice Punch Weavile OHKO's YacheChomp, but that leaves you open to the uncertainty of risking running into a ScarfChomp (though, as I said, most Chomps run Scarf with +Spd for 499), which is going to kill a Punch Weavile.

Right now, without Priority, the only things that can stand a chance of outspeeding to kill a ScarfChomp are +Speed Scarf'd Pokémon with 110 Base Speed.

I'm predicting that both Lati twins hit OU now - their full power doesn't come into play without Soul Dew, but even then, physical sweepers run rampant over them. A lack of Soul Dew makes Special Sweepers that much stronger - right now, the twins (especially Latios) are running Scarf & Specs (though Scarf's more common.) While that allows an easy Chomp kill, Ice Shard Weavile revenge stomps the Twins.

 

[Circa]

The problem with Chomp is that he's usually paired with something that has Sandstorm (T-Tar, Hippo), and he runs Scarf/Yache. Yache knocks out the chance for a Banded Shard to OHKO. Ice Punch Weavile OHKO's YacheChomp, but that leaves you open to the uncertainty of risking running into a ScarfChomp (though, as I said, most Chomps run Scarf with +Spd for 499), which is going to kill a Punch Weavile.

Right now, without Priority, the only things that can stand a chance of outspeeding to kill a ScarfChomp are +Speed Scarf'd Pokémon with 110 Base Speed.

I'm predicting that both Lati twins hit OU now - their full power doesn't come into play without Soul Dew, but even then, physical sweepers run rampant over them. A lack of Soul Dew makes Special Sweepers that much stronger - right now, the twins (especially Latios) are running Scarf & Specs (though Scarf's more common.) While that allows an easy Chomp kill, Ice Shard Weavile revenge stomps the Twins.

Hmmmm...very true. However, where Weavile fails to counter, Mamoswine can pick up some of the slack. And he was actually the main other Poke that I was talking about to hit the scene harder with Chomp's return. If my calculations are correct, Chomp fails to OHKO with EQ and Banded Swine 2HKOs (with a very slim, yet still possible 1HKO) with Ice Shard on Yache'd Chomp. The only issue it would have is if Chomp didn't SD on the switch-in, and even then you're taking out a good enough chunk before dying to take it out with the countless other priority runners that seem to be in the current metagame. Also, from what you said, if Latios makes it into OU then Chomp becomes more viable.

And yeah, I could see the other Lati twin making OU as well. The current metagame is so physically oriented that even with immense special attack and decent defenses it would still have to watch out. Especially for those Weaviles and Mamos. Plus it's walled by Blissey, like every other special attacker.

To me, it almost feels like the current Pokemon being tested run a 'checks and balances' system, in which case teams will have to watch out for these Pokemon along with the other common threats. Chomp counters a good portion of the current metagame, but is countered by the Lati twins, and the Lati twins are countered by the likes of Weavile and Mamo, as well as Blissey, who I know is dropping in popularity. With that being said, it almost seems like adding those two into the game could make the system a little more pre-Platinum? I may be wrong, but hey, it sounds good.

EDIT: As for an update on making my beloved Farfetch'd hit OU status, I have discovered him to be so bad that even after being BP'd 6 speed, attack, and defense boosts, as well as a substitute, it still can't really sweep much more than a Poke or two. ****.

 

[XIF]

Hmmmm...very true. However, where Weavile fails to counter, Mamoswine can pick up some of the slack. And he was actually the main other Poke that I was talking about to hit the scene harder with Chomp's return. If my calculations are correct, Chomp fails to OHKO with EQ and Banded Swine 2HKOs (with a very slim, yet still possible 1HKO) with Ice Shard on Yache'd Chomp. The only issue it would have is if Chomp didn't SD on the switch-in, and even then you're taking out a good enough chunk before dying to take it out with the countless other priority runners that seem to be in the current metagame. Also, from what you said, if Latios makes it into OU then Chomp becomes more viable.

And yeah, I could see the other Lati twin making OU as well. The current metagame is so physically oriented that even with immense special attack and decent defenses it would still have to watch out. Especially for those Weaviles and Mamos. Plus it's walled by Blissey, like every other special attacker.

To me, it almost feels like the current Pokemon being tested run a 'checks and balances' system, in which case teams will have to watch out for these Pokemon along with the other common threats. Chomp counters a good portion of the current metagame, but is countered by the Lati twins, and the Lati twins are countered by the likes of Weavile and Mamo, as well as Blissey, who I know is dropping in popularity. With that being said, it almost seems like adding those two into the game could make the system a little more pre-Platinum? I may be wrong, but hey, it sounds good.

EDIT: As for an update on making my beloved Farfetch'd hit OU status, I have discovered him to be so bad that even after being BP'd 6 speed, attack, and defense boosts, as well as a substitute, it still can't really sweep much more than a Poke or two. ****.

I have logs of a team I made with awful bird pokemon where I have a farfetch'd sweep 2 or 3 pokemon mid to late game. He actually makes a somewhat crazy revenge killer since people just want to kill him.

BTW, the FarFetch'd set:

Farfetch'd @ Focus Sash
252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP

Jolly

~Agility
~Swords Dance
~Flail
~Quick Attack

it's actually pure ownage.

 

[Vect0r]

Garchomp is tricky... He's too broken for OU, but not quite powerful enough for Ubers.
It's a good idea to keep him there, though. Chomp literally went on a rampage in OU, destroying everything in sight.

Also, Blissey is overrated. But I'll leave that up to discussion.

 

[drcossack]

Garchomp is tricky... He's too broken for OU, but not quite powerful enough for Ubers.
It's a good idea to keep him there, though. Chomp literally went on a rampage in OU, destroying everything in sight.

Also, Blissey is overrated. But I'll leave that up to discussion.

Clearly you don't play Ubers. +Spd Nature ScarfChomp = pwnage. Between EQ & Outrage, he's able to hit EVERYTHING in Ubers for at least Neutral damage - against the less defensive Pokemon like Mewtwo, that Outrage is going to OHKO. Dialga is resistant to Outrage, but a Max Atk Jolly ScarfChomp (@ 359) will do more than 90% with Earthquake.

 

[NJzFinest]

How is the best special wall in the game overrated...?

 

[drcossack]

How is the best special wall in the game overrated...?

Because standard Blissey gets OHKO'd by any physical move? Not sure why that's even considered as an argument though - nobody will keep Blissey in against a Physical Sweeper.

I think Chibo's Blissey from our match last night is the only one I've failed to OHKO with a Physical Attack. That's probably a special case though, since he built it to counter my team.