The Marth Pillar - Of Any Use In Competative Play?

[Sariku]

If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a type of pillar Marth can do to most characters when they have low damage. You can chain it together if your opponent misses the tech or doesn't tech roll. I don't have a video of it, but I can explain it right now:

• Dash at an opponent when they are around 20% - 40% damage. (This varies depending on the characters weight and floatieness.)
• Do a dash attack.
• Quickly do an Up Tilt.
• Jump up and do a Down Air Spike.

If the opponent is close to the edge this move can spike them off the edge. Great way to handle Fox's only looking for a Shine Spike.

My question is with the few characters this can chain (I.E. Link), should people practice it or is it just something you can pull of on a computer? And then is it even worth practicing?

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EDIT -

There are more ways to pull it off that just a dash attack, so don't say it's not useful because of that. You could easily grab them and do an Up Throw, then chain that into an Up Tilt. Or Dash Dance straight into a pivoted Up Tilt. Be Creative!

 

[FrostByte]

If the situation calls for it, I don't see why not. Anything that kills is useful in competitive play

 

[ArcNatural]

This is really DI dependant. I actually think they need to DI away both the dash attack and the uptilt for you to be able to dair them off the edge like that if you approach from the middle of the stage. Also, I think for the other way where they are in the middle area of the stage they have to not DI at all or something like that.

At any rate this is really just a combo setup, it's not really a pillar. Pillaring is usually defined by a succession of moves that are extremely difficult to get out of (unless you roll) and can get you stuck in your shield. Hence the sh dair shine pillars, and the peach pillar.

Unlike the other pillars, you can easily get shield grabbed or jump out of shield attacked out of the dash attack and the uptilt. So the only time this is actually useful is if the dash attack initially connects. And in general uptilt to dair, fair dair, upthrow dair, etc. are fairly well known. I don't think you can call uptilt to dair a pillar.

As for practicing it, this is no where near as difficult to do consistently compared to the fox,falco, and peach pillars. So I really don't see why you would need to practice it. Land an uptilt somewhere in a combo if the DI is right jump and dair.

 

[Black Waltz]

hmmm, ive never tried it before. i'll give it a go during weekend friendlies.

 

[Sariku]

If the situation calls for it, I don't see why not. Anything that kills is useful in competitive play

Alright then.

This is really DI dependant. I actually think they need to DI away both the dash attack and the uptilt for you to be able to dair them off the edge like that if you approach from the middle of the stage. Also, I think for the other way where they are in the middle area of the stage they have to not DI at all or something like that.

At any rate this is really just a combo setup, it's not really a pillar. Pillaring is usually defined by a succession of moves that are extremely difficult to get out of (unless you roll) and can get you stuck in your shield. Hence the sh dair shine pillars, and the peach pillar.

Unlike the other pillars, you can easily get shield grabbed or jump out of shield attacked out of the dash attack and the uptilt. So the only time this is actually useful is if the dash attack initially connects. And in general uptilt to dair, fair dair, upthrow dair, etc. are fairly well known. I don't think you can call uptilt to dair a pillar.

As for practicing it, this is no where near as difficult to do consistently compared to the fox,falco, and peach pillars. So I really don't see why you would need to practice it. Land an uptilt somewhere in a combo if the DI is right jump and dair.

I really see where you come with this, and it almost proves me wrong?

DI is a big role in it, which it would need practice with other people since none of my friends are REALLY good at DI. I can very well, but everyone else I play is still learning. (Besides NES n00b)

hmmm, ive never tried it before. i'll give it a go during weekend friendlies.

You should, though it's not super effective. It just looks really good.

 

[Emblem Lord]

All high level Marth's do this. They may or may not set it up with a dash attack though.

But u-tilt to spike is used and abused whenever possible in high level matches with pros.

Usually vs fast fallers.

 

[elastickub]

I really see where you come with this, and it almost proves me wrong?

DI is a big role in it, which it would need practice with other people since none of my friends are REALLY good at DI. I can very well, but everyone else I play is still learning. (Besides NES n00b)



wow dude i can di

 

[rubiksfriend]

Sounds like it could work for me because I play persons unskilled in DI. Other than that, I don't plan on using it.

 

[Juggleguy]

Usually I skip the utilt in this situation. The dash attack, taken by surprise, can be linked into a spike if they don't DI.

 

[Yoshistar64]

Competitive level? I say use something else aside from the dash attack. It gets shieldgrabbed pretty easily. If you can trick them while leaving them off-guard or something, it'll prove to be a very handy move.

May I suggest an Up-throw?

 

[Retroking2000]

why not use the ken combo XP

 

[Schweppes]

I've pulled off a Dair x3 in a tournament match before. IIRC it was FThrow -> Dair, techchase Dair, Dair spike to death.

My Marth Pillar.

 

[ComboTurtle]

Competitive level? I say use something else aside from the dash attack. It gets shieldgrabbed pretty easily. If you can trick them while leaving them off-guard or something, it'll prove to be a very handy move.

May I suggest an Up-throw?

the dash attack shouldnt get shield grabbed that often if spaced well.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

highly DI dependant, and the dash attack alone can get you a dair (ken has used dash attack at the edge to dair to kill azen before). that said just about everything is DI dependant so if you want to do it, do it.

 

[Yoshistar64]

It seems EVERYTHING is dependent on DI.

And ComboTurtle, I think even if the dash attack is spaced well, the opponent may wavedash out of the shield and then grab. They do this at competitive levels, which is why I said, "Competitive levels?" But then again there could be some mindgames going on in this situation in Marth's favor. Ah, whatever.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

dash attacks are still part of competitive marth play. to be honest, it has less lag than a fsmash

 

[ComboTurtle]

i think if its spaced well then the stun lag from the attack on the shield gives u enough time to utilt or jab in most situations, however i may be wrong as i suck

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

definitely not. hit between frames 12-15 on dash attack. total 49 frames, but iasa at 40. so 25 frames to cover there. then utilt hits between 6-12. thats 31-37 frames to cover for between shield stun, WD, and attack.

using samus as an example:

air on frame 4, airdodge 10 frames. that leaves 14 frames to 31-37. so 17-22 for shield stun and attack. fsmash being the laggiest between dsmash and fsmash, hits on frame 10. thats 7-12 for shield stun. i dont think there is 7-12 stun.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

I thought the official definition of pillaring was shield pressuring with space animals (esp Falco) traditionally done with down-airs and shines, often mixed with other techniques to make shieldgrabbing more difficult for the target, such as waveshines, jabs, and other aerials.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

it is, and many people still use the term incorrectly. not to mention that this is trying to be some sort of falco shine combo with marth while marth has better combos and less risky ones.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

it is, and many people still use the term incorrectly. not to mention that this is trying to be some sort of falco shine combo with marth while marth has better combos and less risky ones.

Haha, yes.

Pillaring = shield pressure

Combos = c0mb0z