HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
The Purpose of This Thread
-To give accurate ratios and give players the opportunity to incite new information that can change the ratio.
-- Note: This does not mean mindlessly debate ratios. Previous discussions will be logged for sake of revisits. Discussions can be stopped or refused to start if there's no evidence behind the discussion. If you wish to know why the ratios are like they are, go to the Mario Match-Up Discussion.
-To provide information on how to defeat said character in a detailed manner. Counterpick stages are also added.
-To discuss how to make match-up ratios better for Mario.
References:
Complete Mario Match-Up Discussion
Mario vs Everyone Else Q&A Thread
Ness is Trash
Match-ups Summaries
Heavy Disadvantage
DeDeDe (Chaingrab) - 35:65
Summary
This is undoubtedly Mario's hardest match-up, for a few minor reasons, and one big one. First, he has the ability to force you to approach with the use of waddle dees and the gordo. He has quick attacks for his size and power, and with his four multi-jumps, he has the ability to WOP Mario off the stage for a gimp.
Mario however, has the MUCH better combo potential on Chaingrab, being able to U-tilt lock him up to ~40%, and do strings of aerial attacks. Chaingrab's GTFO move is his B-air, which means as long Mario stays in front of him, he's easy pickings. Also, despite the four multi-jumps, his Up-B is quite predictable and can be forced to use with the use of FLUDD and fireballs.
If it was like this, it'd probably be even, but this is where the heaviest issue comes to play: the chaingrab, and the infinite. If Chaingrab grabs Mario, expect to be chaingrabbed across the stage, and expect to be WOP'd for a gimp. Avoid this by making good use of your air dodge, taking advantage of Up-B's priority, and cape stalling.
If you're ~100%, expect Chaingrab to go for the infinite, which consists of Jab -> D-throw -> Standing Regrab -> Jab -> D-throw. Mario's only hope of getting out of the infinite is Chaingrab messing up and for the player to master his grab break skills.
The chaingrab is bad enough, but the infinite solidifies the match-up ratio. However, this isn't an auto-loss for Mario. Since Mario can break down Chaingrab's camp game, you don't have to approach him. Be patient and out-camp him, force him to approach, bait an attack, and then go to combo and gimp him.
Nevertheless, this is a hard match. Personally I'd say this is the only match-up where the player should have a counterpick character in mind. Speaking of counterpicks, be sure to use Norfair or Brinstar to CP against Chaingrab to neutralize the infinite.
Metaknight - 35:65
Summary
While Chaingrab tries to make Mario lose all his options, Metaknight forces Mario to use all that he has. Metaknight is Mario's second hardest match-up and for good reason. Metaknight out-speeds and out-ranges Mario in nearly all categories except for aerial speed. His sword does not clash with any attack besides his glide attack, meaning that even if Mario's attacks come out at the same time, Metaknight will win simply due to his range. He is also the best edgeguarder in the game and can do reliable gimping with his D-air. With five multijumps, gliding and three special moves that helps his recovery, he is quite difficult to gimp. His kill moves are D-Smash, F-Smash, and N-air. D-Smash is quite spammable and very risky to punish. F-Smash has some lag in the beginning but is a good mindgame tool when being charged, and N-air will more than likely be used to kill when Mario is off-stage.
Mario however, has his tools to fight back. Metaknight has no way of stopping Mario's fireballs except for shielding, which gives you breathing room and allows Mario to stop his momentum. D-Smash is an excellent punisher for Metaknight's D-Smash since it comes out just as fast. A reverse U-Smash does just as well if Mario's back is behind Metaknight's. Mario can somewhat combo Metaknight, but a lot of it will deal with mindgames and baiting. Most of all however, Mario is one of the few characters that can gimp Metaknight. Shuttle Loop is highly exploitable to FIHL, which clashes with Metaknight's glide attack, which would put him in a helpless state to allow Mario to go for the kill or gimp him with the cape.
A few other tidbits are Metaknight's tornado can be beaten with the last hit of D-air, cape, or Up-B OOS. Metaknight is quite light so U-Smash is a good kill move here, and so is F-Smash. A lot of this match is Mario fully utilizing his defensive abilities, taking advantage of any mistakes, and knowing what one can do in any given situation.
Despite all this, this is quite winnable match-up for Mario, as long as the player keeps a cool head.
Counterpick Stages: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island
Disadvantage
Marth - 38:62
Summary
Meh, Marth. This is overall just an annoying match-up for Mario due to the fact that Marth is a problem for Mario just for two moves: F-air and D-tilt. Marth's F-air is an extreme zoning tool that is hard for Mario to get past if spaced correctly, and can be used to gimp Mario off-stage. D-tilt is a large threat to a grounded Mario and makes it hard to apply his ground game. Both moves combined together resorts to Mario making a large amount of mix-ups.
This match-up is quite hard to judge. Personally, I find this match-up isn't hard as long as Mario stays aggressive and stays inside Marth's range, which is in fact easy to do because Marth is about as predictable as G&W. If needed, FLUDD and Cape Jump works on Marth's F-air quite well and screws up spacing a ton. Running Shield allows Mario to get inside with no repercussions as well. FH Fireball Marth's D-tilt if he's camping.
Nothing is stopping Mario from using fireballs. Marth has no projectile, though he can cancel them with F-air, which is fine, because that just leaves an opening if baited correctly. Use fast attacks on Marth once inside like U-air. N-air to Jab combo on a grounded Marth works wonders too. Up-B OOS if Marth is using Dancing Blade while you're shielded (which can happen, but honestly shouldn't. DB is used for punishing). Watch out for U-tilt, tipper F-Smash, and off-stage B-air. Those moves can kill Mario especially if all of them are tipped.
Marth's recovery is similar to Mario's: Telegraphed, but safe. Mario however can do a number on it, for the usual reasons. Just watch out for F-air (OMG!) when trying to edgeguard him, and ledge-hog whenever possible. F-Smash kills Marth extremely early (85-95% depending on stage position), and U-Smash is great too since Marth is quite light.
The ratio above doesn't show what really happens in matches. As long as Mario can defeat F-air and D-tilt, the rest of Marth doesn't really matter.
Counterpick Stages: To be honest, Marth vs Mario are quite even on alot of stages. Just avoid Delfino, and go with whatever stage you feel comfortable with. Personally, I'd choose Battlefield and Halberd.
Game and Watch - 40:60
Summary
A match-up that was originally Mario's hardest match-up. After many have fought and experimented with G&W, he's considered as one of Mario's hardest, but is able to get around due to mix-ups.
Here's an excellent summary from A2ZOMG. Read this before reading the rest.
With this in mind, G&W is predictable, and takes plenty of commitment time with his attacks. Mario hurts G&W hard when he gets inside, both grounded and aerial, and any conventional smash attack is hard to hit Mario with since his attacks are faster.
Keep in mind that while fireballs causes G&W to fill his bucket, a full bucket stops two things:
-His Anti-Camp tool is gone, so Mario is free to use fireballs all he wants.
-Bucket-braking, an ability that stops G&W's momentum completely, cannot be done if the bucket is full.
Fighting a full bucket is risky, but often can be rewarding. Keep in mind G&W filling a bucket causes him to be in severely high ending lag, enough for Mario to practically walk up and perform an F-Smash.
So pretty much what stops this match-up from being a 65:35 is the "paper" vs "practicality" issue. Mario's bait options are rather limitless on G&W while our two-dimensional friend only has a few mix-ups.
Counterpick Stages: Battlefield, Norfair, Halberd
Ice Climbers - 40:60
Snake - 40:60
Summary
Snake is quite literally the most broken character in the game. He has every basic attribute that is valued in Brawl.
-Snake is fast. Aside from Smashes, there is no move in his arsenal that has a laggy start-up.
-Snake has projectiles. Grenades and Nikita. Nikita isn't so good, but Grenades are Snake's bread and butter that allows for extreme camping.
-Stage Control. Mines, C4, and Grenades allow this. This is one of Snake's best advantages on any character and it allows for some insane setups.
-A great recovery. While vulnerable to spikes, Snake never has to worry about this because he'll always recover high. This makes him hard to gimp for just about any character without multi-jumps. He can even recover with his C4 to make matters worse.
-Extremely heavy. Snake is the 3rd heaviest character in Brawl and to top it all off he has good momentum breaking, making him look like the 2nd heaviest with only DDD surpassing him. He'll often live past 150%.
-A good grab game. B-throw at the edge of the stage can potentially kill, but overall is used to set-up an edgeguard kill. D-throw can tech chase and it's an extremely good tech-chase, one that can lead into D-air, U-tilt, F-tilt, D-tilt, or another grab.
-Extreme knockback. Just about all of Snake's moves have medium to high knockback, and Snake's U-tilt is the best kill move in the game. Virtually lagless, has an unrealistically large amount of range, and kills Mario at around 110%.
-Extremely high damage per hit. This is extremely important to note. Jab combo does 14% if all hits land, F-tilt does 20%, U-tilt does 13%, and a full N-air does 35%.
-Lastly but certainly not least, his broken range. F-tilt is just about double the range it should be. U-tilt is just insane, enough for it to comparable to Marth's F-air.
So with all those pros, one would wonder why this isn't some 90:10 Match-up. To put it simply, Mario has various ways to combat Snake that can keep the match close. While Snake's attacks are fast, Mario's are faster. Mario's jab combo beat Snake's ground moves in terms of speed (not priority), and Mario's aerials are faster than Snake's to the point where Snake can reliably be juggled. Mario has the ability to FLUDD away Snake's grenades to stop his camping and force an approach if needed, though generally what Mario would want to do is just keep the momentum with him. Going by Snake's pace is never a good thing, he'll run all over you. Keep Cape ready to reverse Snake's tilts or aerial attacks. This will generally give you an opening.
F-air gimp Snake whenever it's possible, although it probably won't be. F-Smash is likely to hit Snake however, and it's best to do it around 120%. U-Smash KOs at around 150% but it's best to keep it fresh anyway. You want to kill Snake as soon as possible because Snake can kill Mario that much faster.
Keep an eye on the stage. Mines and C4 can be planted and will be used against you. If you see a mine, fireball it. If a C4 is planted, it'll automatically blow up in ~25 seconds. DI is very important this match. Mario can powershield the third hit of the jab combo (though keep in mind Snake will usually Jab cancel into F-tilt, which is a true combo), and SDI out of N-air and D-air. If you're caught in a D-throw tech-chase, outwit your opponent, cause that's all you can do.
The match-up takes alot of experience and thought of each Snake player, but despite all that has been said, this is a winnable match-up as long as Mario keeps the pressure on Snake and keep him out of his element. The hardest part of this match is KOing Snake before Snake KOs Mario, so juggles and F-Smash is extremely important. Just get past Snake's range and never stop attacking after that.
Counterpick Stages: Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Jungle Japes.
Wario - 40:60
Even
Falco - 45:55
Lucario - 45:55
Luigi - 45:55
Olimar - 45:55
Wolf - 48:52
Diddy - 50:50
Summary
Diddy is a character that is recently rising to fame in Brawl. His excellent zoning ability as well as his constant pressure tactics make him an appealing character, and is currently a contender for top-tier placement. Mario however is a formidable match for him for various reasons.
Diddy's greatest quality is his bananas (naners). In which they are the key reason to his zoning, damage-racking, and overall pressure. They are the bread 'n butter of his gameplay for just about any Diddy. Combined with the fact that he has the faster throw in the game (his throw comes out in lesser frames and ends in lesser frames), his moveset, particularly his lagless Dash attack, high-damage F-Smash, and the monkey hump, he can give you a run for your money.
Mario however counters Diddy's naners effectively with the cape, in which if you cape them, they do nothing and counts as your bananas. Diddy however can simply dash grab to regain control of them, but this can be countered in a number of ways, such as fireballs, cape, or grabbing the naner yourself. On that note, it's recommended that you know how to DACIT (Boost Toss AKA "Link's Bombsliding") and/or JCT/RJCT (Jump Cancel Throw/Reverse Jump Cancel Throw) to increase your effectiveness on using naners against Diddy, since it's very possible to follow-up with just about any move out of it. Otherwise, secluding them by throwing them upwards or keeping them at the edge of the stage is doable.
Moveset-wise, Diddy suffers from the same weakness Mario has: A lack of range. This makes Mario's entire moveset usable against Diddy. Pound for pound, Mario's attributes are better than Diddy's as his attacks generally come out faster, less lag, and a high ability to combo Diddy thanks to his size and weight.
Things to look out for ground-wise is Diddy's F-tilt, which has the ability to make a wall to stop Mario from getting past without the use of Cape or F-Smash. His jab, while less effective than F-tilt, also does the same thing, but is much more laggy and punishable. His Dash attack, to be blunt, is ****ing annoying as ****. It's lagless, has high priority against other ground moves, and virtually unpunishable. You either need to fireball this or contest with N-air to beat it. Diddy's D-Smash is inferior to Mario's, but is a decent kill move. F-Smash is his best kill move, but the first hit can be DI'd outwards or upwards to avoid the second hit. And if you do get hit by the second hit, it's a horrible vertical killer, so just DI upward and momentum break.
Aerial-wise, watch out for F-air, his best aerial killer, and Side-B, the monkey hump which can turn into the monkey foot and contest with B-air, which trades hit if Mario doesn't space correctly. Otherwise Mario trumps Diddy in the air. U-air juggles are viable, and just about any aerial besides F-air comes out faster than Diddy's.
Off-stage, Mario vastly beats Diddy with the usual tools. You can fireball, FLUDD, or cape his Side-B (Do not run into Monkey hump. It will gimp you), and N-air, fireball, or Cape his Up-B. Coupled with a ledgehog, this is usually enough to gimp him. With good DI, Mario usually won't be gimped by Diddy. Though, if you're caught in recovering low, watch out for banana gimps and F-air, and make sure to cape stall if he edgehogs.
Overall, this battle will mainly depend if you can break down Diddy's game with his bananas. If you can't, then Diddy automatically wins. If you can, then this match-up is yours.
Counterpick stages: Battlefield, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise.
BAN FINAL DESTINATION.
Fox - 50:50
Kirby - 50:50
Lucas - 50:50
Pikachu - 50:50
Pit - 50:50
:shiek: Shiek - 50:50
Toon Link - 50:50
Zero Suit Samus - 50:50
Ike - 55:45
Jigglypuff - 55:45
Ness - 55:45
Pokemon Trainer - 55:45
--- Ivysaur - 60:40
--- Charizard - 50:50
--- Squirtle - 60:40
R.O.B. - 55:45
Sonic - 55:45
Zelda - 55:45
Advantage
Bowser - 60:40
Captain Falcon - 60:40
Link - 60:40
Samus - 60:40
Yoshi - 60:40
Ganondorf - 65:35