The Mario Match-up Index (Updated as of 1/14/10)

[hippiedude92]

Let's go 50/50 with luigi <3.

btw niceass chart yo.

 

[Judge Judy]

Still a very difficult matchup though because it's a chore to get inside his range, and he edgeguards you really well with D-airs and F-airs. If you midair jump into his F-air, it will probably gimp you. His D-air hits you out of your Up-B and he will try to stagespike with it.

Actually getting inside G&W’s range isn’t too hard and G&W doesn’t really have any safe approaches against Mario due to FIHL and Up B OOS. Also, G&W has a hard time getting Mario off him once Mario is inside his range. However, G&W clearly can more reliably gimp Mario than vice-versa and G&W has a clear advantage in KO power. Anyway, I firmly believe that this match-up 60:40 in G&W's favor.

 

[Baseballfan1456]

Quick question: Is there anything AT ALL that Mario has on Dedede? I have a friend who mains him and he usually 3-stocks me...he doesn't use his Chain Grab on me but I can't seem to hit him at all withour getting in his grab range

Also, if there's no advantages that you know of, can you inform me of some Dedede counterpicks?

 

[bobson]

Also, if there's no advantages that you know of, can you inform me of some Dedede counterpicks?

Falco, Kirby, Pikachu, Metaknight, Mr. Game & Watch... most of the characters he can't chaingrab have an advantage on him. The Ice Climbers totally wreck him, too, although they aren't exactly a pick-up-and-play character.

If you're man enough to stick with Mario, camp like a little *****.

 

[hippiedude92]

Quick question: Is there anything AT ALL that Mario has on Dedede? I have a friend who mains him and he usually 3-stocks me...he doesn't use his Chain Grab on me but I can't seem to hit him at all withour getting in his grab range

Also, if there's no advantages that you know of, can you inform me of some Dedede counterpicks?

Mario has the slightly advantage of better camping than D3. But in other words, you'll have to play gay camping like Monk on the edge. Mario has suprerior aerial mobility and overall movement. He has better combo ability on D3. This is pretty debateable but from what I believed Mario's a better gimper But it depends highly on situation and d3 has easier gimps.

Basically Metroid stages are a nice counterpick against D3.

 

[HeroMystic]

Let's go 50/50 with luigi <3.

btw niceass chart yo.

No arguments here, but we still gotta wait for the actual discussion, lol.

Still a very difficult matchup though because it's a chore to get inside his range, and he edgeguards you really well with D-airs and F-airs. If you midair jump into his F-air, it will probably gimp you. His D-air hits you out of your Up-B and he will try to stagespike with it.

I agree with this, but I can't say it's actually a 'chore' to get inside his range. Then again, all the G&W I ever play just try to zone me instead of space.

We'll need more discussion on this.

Btw, I keep seeing vids of Mario destroying Snake players, lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Good G&W players don't take unnecessary risks when you FLUDD their attacks. I know I don't. And you can't exactly spam FLUDD repeatedly.

Fireballs IMO > FLUDD slightly against G&W since they can sometimes interrupt his attacks, which he doesn't like, but you again can't spam those unless it's the last stock and he's at a high percent.

 

[Matt07]

Okay so like usually I fireball when he's super close, and I stand there and spam FLUDD, and either up B, or follow with a grab, if GW is caught in his lag state.

Like seriously GW is waayyyyy harder then MK lol.

Hmm...none of the other character boards came in and discussed with us, I guess they agree on the ratios.

 

[HeroMystic]

They probably just don't care. In any case we need to have a discussion about it ourselves.

Let's start out with Snake first since he was the first one brought up.

 

[Matt07]

Snake; on the ground he's a beast. He can outrange you, Gernades can force you too approach at times. The Snake will be smart and hold the Gernade, and toss it, so when it comes to your face your forced to shield. He has amazing ftilt chasing with his grabs, and utilt has amazing range.

In the air...he sucks. Mario outspeeds all of aerials, and they have good range in the air, the Snake will avoid trying to fight you on the air at all costs. It's quite difficult to get him into the air.

Umm I think it's 40:60 in Snake's favour, because Mario does have trouble K.O'ing him with Usmash, or Fsmash. Your best bet is too go for a gimp when you see one.

 

[HeroMystic]

Yeah, Snake's grenade camping is rough if you don't know how to deal with it. Same with his grabs. I honestly can't say his tilts are that much of a problem due to the cape.

You can FLUDD away his grenades though, so the tossing isn't really that much of a problem. It's when he maneuvers with his grenade-dropping which becomes a problem. When he starts doing that it becomes harder to combo him due to the fact that you keep getting blown up.

That's really the only major problem with him though, honestly. F-Smash kills Snake at 120%. U-Smash at around 140%.

 

[J-Prep]

that picture is sick. [i feel so late lol]

 

[HeroMystic]

Okay, so as far as DDD and Metaknight goes, we seem to agree on the ratios. I'll be adding summaries for those then.

Keep talking about Snake, peeps.

 

[Matador]

I've always thought Snake was 60:40 in his favor...mainly because of his weight (again). We can combo him nicely, and he has very little options from below him at low %; I think all he can safely do is airdodge. We deal with his projectiles very well, and can stop mortar slide with fireballs/cape.

He kills Mario with a fresh Utilt at around 90-100%. His Ftilt and Nair make it difficult to approach safely, but they're moves based on reaction. If you move close enough to be hit, they'll go for it because spotdodges and airdodges won't protect you against them. Reading this consistently will usually make or break the match. Aside from that, Snake has grenade shielding to screw up combos...keep an eye out for this. Snake does not die...keep your killers fresh...go for gimps from Dsmash...don't be too risky.

If you know he's going for C4 recovery, Fludd him. If he's hugging the stage with cypher, grab him as he comes up but DONT pummel; it'll give him back his upB. Cape him during recovery when you can to run his recovery thin and kill his momentum for when he's coming back...there's your spike or Bair opportunity.

Even with all of this...Snake is insanely powerful and various things make him difficult to deal with. Not exactly a match you'd need to counterpick for, but you'll need to be on your toes.

 

[PKNintendo]

Why do you guys have Wolf at 4-6? Don't the Wolf mains think it's even?
Edit: Oh forgot about the no-discussion ahead of time rule.

I don't know much about Mario vs Snake but if you grab him while using the cypher, he escapes the grab, and regrab him near the edge, he will air break, and won't be able to use the cypher.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW5gP1dN-s4

 

[Matt07]

Woah, that's actually pretty interesting...would it work with Sonic, and Game and Watch as well?

 

[Matador]

Woah, that's actually pretty interesting...would it work with Sonic, and Game and Watch as well?

I doubt it...they have better aerial speed anyways....you didn't know about this? lol.

I thought everyone knew this. I should like...make a compendium of random knowledge or sumtin

Edit: Matt, we need to play.

 

[Matt07]

Well I knew you could grab release Snake out of his cypher so he could't recover. But like...I didn't know you could do it all the way across the stage. Interesting.

Yea we do need to play sometime.

 

[PKNintendo]

Actually Matador, I believe this works on Sonic. (saw it on the Peach boards discussion) and possibly G&W.

 

[Matador]

<---Feels stupid because he didn't watch the vid

Wow..that's epic.

 

[HeroMystic]

Why do you guys have Wolf at 4-6? Don't the Wolf mains think it's even?

Last I heard the Wolf boards have it at 4-6 and some Mario mains agree with it. If there's a change now would be the time to state it.

 

[Judge Judy]

We could have a short debate about the Wolf match-up, I'm curious to hear Matador's opinion on this match-up anyway. Anyway, I still think the G&W match-up is 60:40 in G&W's favor; G&W has trouble approaching Mario and getting Mario off him once Mario is inside his range.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We have the Wolf Mario match-up as 5/5 on the Wolf boards. We used to have it as a 6/4 but that was quite a while ago now ... back in September or something.

 

[Matador]

We could have a short debate about the Wolf match-up, I'm curious to hear Matador's opinion on this match-up anyway. Anyway, I still think the G&W match-up is 60:40 in G&W's favor; G&W has trouble approaching Mario and getting Mario off him once Mario is inside his range.

I wouldn't say he has trouble approaching...He has to cautious, especially against a grounded Mario, or he's eating 10% from upB OOS but that just means he can't be reckless with his Bair or other approach options. A charged Fludd could also throw him off, but G&W still has one of the greatest approach methods in the game.

Mario still gets points for making it a little less safe though.

The main reason I'd give the adv to Wolf in their matchup is that Wolf beats him in the air and on the ground IIRC. He's also excellent at killing approaches, punishing failed approach attempts, and his Dsmash is great for KOs.

Aside from that, Wolf can break out of combos pretty easily with his reflector. He'll be more consistently racking up damage because he can keep Mario out and break out of combos. He's not slow either, he actually competes with Mario for speed.

 

[HeroMystic]

Wolf's Back-air is actually a pain in the *** due to his fall speed. But that's the only major problem I have with him.

 

[hippiedude92]

Wolf's mobility is really godly. He'll be throwing Bairs like a mad man!

 

[Fire!]

I'll go 50/50 here.

Wolf can just spam Bair to rack up the damage and Dsmash to kill when kept fresh. The blaster can mess up Mario's approaches and recoverys and his Fsmash/Ftilt can be annoying too if you don't space well. He can also shine blind Mario for a gimp which, although is very risky for the Wolf, its hard to avoid. I find it pretty hard to cape Wolf as well, since his Side+B is diagonal upwards and fast.

Although Mario can counter all those things stated above, Wolf can deal with everything Mario has as well. I think its an even matchup.

 

[PKNintendo]

Why don't we debate Olimar? Make a thread there, e.c.t.
(please don't shoot Oli mains)
but in my opinion, I think Mario is not at the disadvantage. Eh but thats me.

(why is Squirt at 7-3?)

 

[HeroMystic]

(why is Squirt at 7-3?)

There was no actual match-up ratio in the discussion thread, but pretty much everyone said we **** him, so I just tossed in 70:30.

 

[Matador]

I'll go 50/50 here.

Wolf can just spam Bair to rack up the damage and Dsmash to kill when kept fresh. The blaster can mess up Mario's approaches and recoverys and his Fsmash/Ftilt can be annoying too if you don't space well. He can also shine blind Mario for a gimp which, although is very risky for the Wolf, its hard to avoid. I find it pretty hard to cape Wolf as well, since his Side+B is diagonal upwards and fast.

Although Mario can counter all those things stated above, Wolf can deal with everything Mario has as well. I think its an even matchup.

I just don't like how often he shines out of combos. Utilt chains, Uair binds...he can just shine out of them; especially since Mario doesn't have much range. That just takes away his main method of racking up damage while keeping him from fireball approaching the entire match.

Why don't we debate Olimar? Make a thread there, e.c.t.
(please don't shoot Oli mains)
but in my opinion, I think Mario is not at the disadvantage. Eh but thats me.

(why is Squirt at 7-3?)

I'd like to re-discuss this as well. Because of this whole new Nair thing, they haven't been giving me trouble.

There was no actual match-up ratio in the discussion thread, but pretty much everyone said we **** him, so I just tossed in 70:30.

I thought we discussed this with the rest of PT?

 

[Matt07]

I was just looking at Boss' match-up discussion, and Hero if you want to base your number off of there (just skimming through posts, or you can read the whole discussion) it's on from page 25-28.

I THINK this is what it should be;
60:40 Squirtle
55:45 Ivy (Ivy has amazing 'anti-air' defence options)
55:45 Charizard.

 

[HeroMystic]

I already looked through, and there was a argument at seeing who was 'harder' and such. People were saying Ivy was hard, some was saying she was easy. Same goes for Charizard and Squirtle.

We all eventually agreed that Charizard was the hardest (I don't think it warrants an even match-up though, honestly), with Ivy and Squirtle still unsettled. Most posts said Squirtle was rather easy though.

 

[Dragoomba]

For Wolf; I think that it should be 45:55 Wolf's favor. Everything in my opinion is even but the shine that owns Mario's range.

 

[PKNintendo]

@ Matador. What Nair thing?

 

[HeroMystic]

@ Matador. What Nair thing?

Mario's N-air breaks a large majority of Olimar's moves.

 

[Matador]

Yeah, that's why Luigi is an Olimar counter. Mario's has similar properties.

 

[BoTastic!]

Why is Mario disadv to zamus?

 

[Matador]

Why is Mario disadv to zamus?

I was wondering that myself. I'd always assumed it was even.

 

[HeroMystic]

That's why you guys talk about this, lol.

If a majority says Even then I'll change it.

 

[BoTastic!]

Lol we discussed it in Boss's match up discussion. We already agreed that its even.