Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[M@1funk$hun]

guys maybe these matches will help us out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXPX8Se8MU&feature=feedu
some people are gonna be thrown off by doc immediately, but lets be honest
shroomed plays aggressive. which is what us Mario mains like to see.
doc and mario are similar. not the same. but similar.
just ignore the parts where he does random cobys and it would be like watchin a black mario

 

[A2ZOMG]

Fox is actually really retardedly hard for Mario to gimp. The only "easy" way to gimp him with Mario is basically somehow getting him offstage at low percents and going for the money shot, which is easier said than done.

If you're going the safer route of chaingrabbing Fox and racking about 90 damage on him, he's far from easy to gimp if he doesn't mess up his DI and knows how to aim his Up-B properly.

 

[Lordydennek]

watch dj nintendo gimp ppl. thats how its done

 

[M@1funk$hun]

gimping spacies relieves my stress. not sure why you say it's that hard. I <3 doing that. it's just getting them off the stage is the hard part against a good fox cuz he's gonna cover options with that ridculous speed

 

[condemned_soul]

mindgames are what really helps mario in this match up. someone find some videos on people playing fox now.

 

[otg]

Fox can waveshine-> usmash and waveshine-> grab consistently regardless of CC or anything. It's honestly not hard and requires some pretty basic techskill. As for uthrow -> uair, I don't know if this applies to Mario as well as Doc, but it is not a guaranteed combo. Mario can jump out before it connects, and with sdi it's harder for fox to land both hits. However, fox's will bait out the DJ and just **** the crap out of you on the way down, so be warned.

 

[Blanky]

Fox can waveshine-> usmash and waveshine-> grab consistently regardless of CC or anything. It's honestly not hard and requires some pretty basic techskill. As for uthrow -> uair, I don't know if this applies to Mario as well as Doc, but it is not a guaranteed combo. Mario can jump out before it connects, and with sdi it's harder for fox to land both hits. However, fox's will bait out the DJ and just **** the crap out of you on the way down, so be warned.

completely true. i work on the fox match-up pretty much every day that i play smash. you pretty much have to mind game and cant camp (they can outcamp you). a lot of them LOVE to approach with a short-hopped nair which i always bait so that i can wavedash away and hit them with the f-smash

shield grabbing is almost useless against a good fox. need to wavedash OOS, u-smash OOS, or nair OOS.
with that said, grabs should lead to either a bunch of damage against a fox, or a good gimp.

here's some fox vs mario stuff for you condemned_soul!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vODpWTWNNqA
(starting at 3:14)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c0Fg1-INNs
(starting at 7:10)

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Scorp vs Cactuar (2nd Round Pools Match Apex)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vODpWTWNNqA

probably some more in the video thread but most likely very old

edit: **** blanky beat me to it lol

 

[Blanky]

Scorp vs Cactuar (2nd Round Pools Match Apex)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vODpWTWNNqA

probably some more in the video thread but most likely very old

edit: **** blanky beat me to it lol

HAHA sall good! someone was going to post it sooner or later since we're discussing fox. i dont know of any other recent matches between a good mario and fox. a lot are old and pruney.

 

[cjugs]

idk. against a really good fox its gonna be hard to shield grab him. I'd try to nair oos b4 id grab.

Grab seems like the better option because i think it takes less time to come out and you can do more from a grab than you can a nair.

Since when do you main mario that's new right i remembered seeing you on the link boards being a straight up g link main.

 

[Winston]

@ fox's ability to combo Mario: otg has it right. Fox can easily waveshine to usmash or grab. From grab uthrow is not guaranteed but you'll still be in danger because Fox can bait something and hit you when you come down.

@ gimping fox: it's not "easy" and it's not "hard", I'd say. When you grab fox near an edge you pretty much have a 50/50 shot and gimping him with throw off the edge -> guess what he'll do. He can either jump immediately/not do anything, in which case runoff sh dair -> stuff will gimp him, or he can jump backwards and illusion, which you can hit with a wavedash sh bair or a sh out -> dj uair.

Considering it's really difficult to chaingrab at really low percent it's not a bad idea at all to go for the gimp when you can.

 

[Lordydennek]

Grab seems like the better option because i think it takes less time to come out and you can do more from a grab than you can a nair.

Since when do you main mario that's new right i remembered seeing you on the link boards being a straight up g link main.

I play ylink more now. i still have the link but i kept getting destroyed by spacies. mario is quite good agaisnt them tho. I use link for specific mus. and yoshi and mario and ylink and even some cfalcon and sheik. but mainly I like the low tiers.

also
its really hard to sheild grab a fox...like too hard. id rather get them off me with nair then miss the grab get shined and die.


ALSOOOOO
the uair is crap against fox at higher percents. but super good at mid percents.

 

[condemned_soul]

Considering it's really difficult to chaingrab at really low percent it's not a bad idea at all to go for the gimp when you can.

yeah thats why i usually dthrow>Fair at low percentage because I can L cancel jab>regrab which usually makes it easier to chaingrab afterwards.

 

[Winston]

And what do you do if they tech...?

 

[condemned_soul]

L cancel and follow up with a shffl Nair or wavedash>grab

 

[Lordydennek]

start off the match with fireballs. camp them till like 15-20% thats only like 4 balls. then start to approach. btw full hop nair is the best weapon against spacies.

 

[condemned_soul]

wouldnt that make the fox campy?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I was thinking the same thing. the last thing we need is a camping fox. might aswell bend your *** over so he can shove his nair up your ***

 

[condemned_soul]

I was thinking the same thing. the last thing we need is a camping fox. might aswell bend your *** over so he can shove his nair up your ***

hes trying to take 1 for the team that isnt necessary lol

 

[Lordydennek]

well thats why you fake appraoch then ball. be smart

 

[condemned_soul]

or you could shoot ONE fireball as you approach with something like a nair which would get you further then shooting 3-4 fireballs. be smart

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Has anyone tried to cape the fox's approach? I mean like when he nairs, you cape it, and then since he is turned around you could probably get a grab in

 

[condemned_soul]

seems like a good idea but you would have to be careful because fox can still shine IF he L cancels which can lead to him retreating or any other option that he has assuming the he knows what hes doing. If not the you can most likely get a grab in.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

yeah I thought about the shine once I posted that, but sometimes the cape can be enough to throw a fox who doesn't know mario off guard

 

[condemned_soul]

very true and since its not falco, ill most like try to grab them or Fair them depending on damage %

 

[Lordydennek]

that's risky. cuz if you miss he'll double jump and drill shine you. tbh I like to cape them when they try to ledgehop a drill. they miss the l cancel like 99 percent of the time and you get a free fsmash.

 

[condemned_soul]

but they are in the middle of an nair. there is no extra jump dude

 

[M@1funk$hun]

but they are in the middle of an nair. there is no extra jump dude

^ that right there

thats strike 3 I believe

 

[condemned_soul]

lol hes like a mosquito bite because him comes out of no where, annoying while hes here, fell relief when hes gone.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

every board needs a troll, it's part of our revival

So on a more serious note, what would you guys say to starting discussion on falco?
I think we got some solid fox strats

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco I think is technically Mario's worst matchup. Just assuming that they play really safe and deliberately avoid getting grabbed at all costs, it's just horrible. He has better range and KO power than you, he's very difficult to stop from camping or approaching, and generally Mario just doesn't really have what it takes to get in control unless the Falco messes up and gets grabbed or F-aired.

He kinda doesn't pillar combo **** Mario THAT hard, and his D-air edgeguard is very telegraphed, but between B-air and his F-smash that he can Jab cancel into, he has more than enough to finish you off reliably provided he doesn't do anything excessively risky. And his tilts are just plain better than yours.

As for stages...Brinstar is a decent enough counterpick. Dream Land 64 isn't too horrible since it aids your survival more than his. Avoid PS and YI. FD is lame but chaingrabs are really easy on that stage.

 

[Lordydennek]

lol hes like a mosquito bite because him comes out of no where, annoying while hes here, fell relief when hes gone.

if you got problems with what I say then put up some info to prove it wrong. so far you havent proved **** to me. you just say **** that isnt right then i tell you whats up and you cant take it. you ever heard of fox SPACING A NAIR SHORT JUST SO HE CAN COME OUT OF IT FOR A DRILL SHINE??? happens a lot. or nair shine to drill. whatever he wants. what foxs are you playing? bad ones i guess. so why dont you take some notes.

dont try to cape that ****. its too slow. the only way youll get it is if you guess it or the fox is ****.

 

[condemned_soul]

if you got problems with what I say then put up some info to prove it wrong. so far you havent proved **** to me. you just say **** that isnt right then i tell you whats up and you cant take it. you ever heard of fox SPACING A NAIR SHORT JUST SO HE CAN COME OUT OF IT FOR A DRILL SHINE??? happens a lot. or nair shine to drill. whatever he wants. what foxs are you playing? bad ones i guess. so why dont you take some notes.

dont try to cape that ****. its too slow. the only way youll get it is if you guess it or the fox is ****.

1. i said you were ANNOYING... not wrong since the other people can do that for me

2. if im so wrong as you say, why are you the ONLY mario saying this. group effort people if im wrong many people would say it.

3. DUDE your caping his Nair and if he does its most likely going to be shffl so he can waveshine. how can he dair after that unless he L cancels and jumps back into the air. Its a scenario that someone else asked and i answered saying that it wouldnt be a good idea IF you read my post. He then said if the fox was inexperienced at that situation could it work and I pretty much agreed. GET OFF MY BACK

 

[Lordydennek]

I'm not tho. all you guys were freaking out about the upthrow up air from fox and i said what? oh that he cant do it...i was right. Full hop nair is what I suggested as an approach...I was right. maybe you should try some of the stuff i suggest before you go off saying im wrong. and im pretty sure Jely and I have been on the same page strat wise.

and if the fox is good he'll space his nair purposely far awayfrom you to lure you out to catch you in a drill if you come after him.

 

[condemned_soul]

we said shine upsmash or waveshine upsmash and you were wrong. we all knew Nair was a good approach which is why we never argued that point. Maybe you need to try some stuff out lol.

if your caping, how is he luring you. OMG this is the last time im going to tell you it was a scenario

pls pay attention or I wont waste no more time debating with you

 

[Lordydennek]

sigh. youre not getting what I'm saying. and I said that is possible but the majority of foxs ive SEEN AND PLAYED dont get it everytime. so why dont you pay attetion.

 

[condemned_soul]

anyone tell me what we were talking about before this guy got here?

 

[Lordydennek]

whatever man. accept when youre wrong and listen to logic.

 

[condemned_soul]

grow up boy. you never made a point . this whole argument started when i said id like to money match DJ nintendo. Thats me what do you have to do with something that does not inevolve you. you take it upon yourself to turn something friendly into more then what it was. your starting to make me think logic is overrated.

but yeah ill accept whatever you said just to drop the subject

leave it alone your making yourself look worse by the post.

 

[MarioMariox2]

If you want to fight, take it to BATTLEFIELD. Otherwise, we gotta agree w/ each other, fellow Marios!