Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Who are characters who are thought to be good that like no one plays i.e.greninja

For the most part is who you're looking at.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Who are characters who are thought to be good that like no one plays i.e.greninja

For the most part is who you're looking at.

 

[IAteYourLastChip]

Hey guys wondering if anyone could help me find a character to be my main I've tried villager but it hasn't worked out.
I wish for character who has good range and good combos

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey guys wondering if anyone could help me find a character to be my main I've tried villager but it hasn't worked out.
I wish for character who has good range and good combos

All have good range are have great combo games. Try them out.

 

[bboss]

This is a broad question, but based on your post (and you playing villager) I have some ideas:

- Tink. Toon Link has great range, great combos, and insanely consistent kill setups with bombs.
- Link. Although not as good as Tink, he has his strengths and can be a good secondary.
- Samus. Although considered a low-tier character, some top players actually have Samuses as secondaries; she struggles in some matchups and dominates in others. It's all or nothing with Samus.
- Bayonetta. Currently the best character in the game; very consistent with a demanding neutral and combo game.
- Mega Man. Great range, Tink-like setups, and great vertical kill moves.
- Robin.

 

[IAteYourLastChip]

This is a broad question, but based on your post (and you playing villager) I have some ideas:

- Tink. Toon Link has great range, great combos, and insanely consistent kill setups with bombs.
- Link. Although not as good as Tink, he has his strengths and can be a good secondary.
- Samus. Although considered a low-tier character, some top players actually have Samuses as secondaries; she struggles in some matchups and dominates in others. It's all or nothing with Samus.
- Bayonetta. Currently the best character in the game; very consistent with a demanding neutral and combo game.
- Mega Man. Great range, Tink-like setups, and great vertical kill moves.
- Robin.

who would say is better mega man or tink?

 

[C0rvus]

They're arguably on very similar footing. I second the nomination of Toon Link. I have heard of Villager mains enjoying the character because he shares the projectile pressure gameplay, but has a bit more length to many of his attacks, and arguably has more combos. I like both characters too, but have a preference for Toon Link.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

who would say is better mega man or tink?

Has the mus surperiority. He's also a better projectile character and had crazy tech to help you launch around the stage. Though isn't far behind and doesn't struggle to kill. Both are top of high tier imo and very good characters.

 

[bboss]

who would say is better mega man or tink?

megaman but not by much

 

[GoodGuy]

So I did more deep diving into finding my main I've come to and after doing that I have no idea what to do. I like them all equally and it's hard to pick one. Any suggestions?

 

[bboss]

So I did more deep diving into finding my main I've come to and after doing that I have no idea what to do. I like them all equally and it's hard to pick one. Any suggestions?

I would suggest you keep Mario as a main and keep at least one other as a secondary for different matchups (preferably Pikachu).

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm focusing on . The only mus I truly struggle with are the heavies, , , and . I still want a secondary. Idk how much focus I wanna put on ATM, but he's still for sure one of my characters. So who could take care of them?

 

[bboss]

The only mus I truly struggle with are the heavies, , , and

I was at an event yesterday and I was talking to a player about how Bayo reks heavies with her zero-to-deaths. So I would recommend using Bayo against Pika and Falcon and Playing diddy vs bayo

 

[Justinian]

I'm focusing on . The only mus I truly struggle with are the heavies, , , and . I still want a secondary. Idk how much focus I wanna put on ATM, but he's still for sure one of my characters. So who could take care of them?

Diddy kinda handles everyone you have problems with fine except for Pika, who can be handled by Mario, who also does pretty well against Falcon and Bayonetta.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

This is likely going to be the last time I post here, so I wanted to thank those of you who have helped me out up to this point, I greatly appreciate all the help. As for who I've picked: I think I've decided on & , at least for now that is. If I change my mind down the line so be it, but until I've gotten enough experience to tell if I need to change, is RIP.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I've still got which is working out pretty well for me so far, but I'm falling in love withtoo. Is there any room for him? Any matchups I could use him in that would be easier than using Roy or Diddy?

 

[C0rvus]

At what point would it be smarter to give up? How long do you have to go, stuck in the same cycle of interest and disinterest, before you just stop? I've been playing this game since 3DS launch, and I've played the series since the very first game. Am I just not capable of having a main? Because I still don't. Maybe my attention span is too short, or I lack discipline. I know part of it is due to real life mental health struggles and my own character flaws, but I'm a little disturbed at myself.

I can play a number of characters, I place decently in my college scene, and poorly in my local scene back home, but I can compete. But I feel that I've hit a wall, and plateaued. I need to be able to pick a character or two and really master them, and then push through this roadblock. I can fill out all the forms I want, I can play random in friendlies, but it's not helping me improve. I still can't really say what my playstyle is; impatient and scared? lol

...Crud.

 

[DarkestLaugh]

At what point would it be smarter to give up? How long do you have to go, stuck in the same cycle of interest and disinterest, before you just stop? I've been playing this game since 3DS launch, and I've played the series since the very first game. Am I just not capable of having a main? Because I still don't. Maybe my attention span is too short, or I lack discipline. I know part of it is due to real life mental health struggles and my own character flaws, but I'm a little disturbed at myself.

I can play a number of characters, I place decently in my college scene, and poorly in my local scene back home, but I can compete. But I feel that I've hit a wall, and plateaued. I need to be able to pick a character or two and really master them, and then push through this roadblock. I can fill out all the forms I want, I can play random in friendlies, but it's not helping me improve. I still can't really say what my playstyle is; impatient and scared? lol

...Crud.

You don't have a strategy. Figure out specifically what you want to accomplish and figure out who has the tools to best help you accomplish this. Want to be able to transition from one action to another quickly? Do you like having a counter? How do you like best to recover? These and more all need to be considered.

So far, you've been just trying to do what you can with the tools given from your character. You need to figure out what you wanna do, and find the character with the tools to help you do it.

This is how people find their mains.

 

[DarkAuraful]

C0rvus
When it's smarter to give up? I could only come up with these possible reasons why:

• That character's playstyle stops feeling fun/good to you anymore
• The character doesn't complement your mindstyle of playing
• You feel like that character may be holding you back, or
• He/she just doesn't interest you anymore (the characters changing playstyles from previous Smash games to now is probably a key part of this)

Don't forget that the character's move sets and themselves are huge reasons that passion and investment are brought into this character. But it's also if that same character from the previous Smash feels fun to you in this current Smash.

I mained Link from 64, Melee and Toon Link from Brawl but dropped them b/c they're not fun to me anymore (being accustomed the newer characters is a bigger part of this but fact still stands that my playstyle mindset's changed from Melee to SSB4).

Don't give up. There's 58 characters in the game; you're bound to find the one for you.

 

[Heracr055]

I think I may be suffering from the effects explained above. I feel like I capped on my ability to use Ryu effectively (I can't do the nair train to dair well, but I'm not going to learn to due to my next point). In adfition, I think he's limited in what characters he can successfully win against (seeing Locus get brutalized by FOW at Nairo Saga matches up my perception that Ryu struggles in the Ness MU, for instance). And I feel he's out of his depth vs ZSS, Diddy, Marcina and Bayo. That said, I'll keep him as a backup char for other MUs such as Sheik.
Over the past couple of months I've been trying to learn ZSS because I think she's got great potential. The problem is that she's not really my style. For example, I'm not effective at setting up and using Flip Kick effectively. And I have trouble sealing stocks with a char known for killing at obscenely low %s. As a result, I'm probably not going to pursue learning her.
So now...I want to learn Peach. I don't think she's that difficult to use from a technical perspective (coming from a Ryu main where proper inputs are key). And I feel that using her will tilt opponents (do you guys remember when Captain Zack threw a bomb at an opponent, taunted, and used Up Smash to score a shield break in tournament?). I'm really excited to see where this char can take me.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So the team is working out and I've made my doubles character. I wanna fit in with my singles team as a good counterpick but would it be a good idea or a bad one? Can I get away with it?

 

[KniteBlargh]

Nice_FZPSC.42 Unless you weren't really looking for an answer and your post was more of a reflective update, I think that's a question you'd have to answer through experience. No one here will know whether you can get away with it or not; some definitely can get away with a higher amount of characters, but none of them actually knew whether they could or not until they tried it. If you're feeling brave, why don't you give it a go during one of your next locals and see how you fare?

 

[Ruben Samich]

Hey guys, so I have a question that I hope is still considered "main advice."

So as you can tell by my profile and everything, Samus (specifically with the blue alt) is my main. But my question is, is Samus good for doubles? The reason I'm asking this is because me and my friend like to play For Glory doubles from time to time and we usually lose. We don't really care because we're not really competitive in Sm4sh anyway, we're mostly just there to have fun. (But we're competitive enough that we don't play on the "for fun" matchmaking) If it means anything, his main is Dark Pit. So, do Samus and Dark Pit work well together? Also, my secondary is Falco, so would it be helpful for me to get better with Falco for doubles? Because I'm gonna be honest, I really enjoy playing as falco, as he's always been my favorite member of Starfox since Starfox 64, but I'm not very good with him. Thanks in advance.

 

[KniteBlargh]

@Ruben Samich So let me start off by making sure you understand without a doubt that doubles on For Glory are completely bogus, so don't feel too badly about usually losing. Standard tournament doubles are set to eight minutes, three stocks, and team attack on with very good reason. Being limited to two minutes in FG doubles with team attack off means the majority of the people you play will just spam heavy-hitting attacks from the likes of Ganondorf or Bowser, or they'll go for projectile spam to try and disable you and your partner without suffering any penalties themselves. Both of those tactics are harder to punish online since, no matter how good the connection is, you will always be dealing with some kind of input delay/lag. This often means you'll both have to play in a similarly "lame" way... For example, you could try sending out missiles while your partner goes in to grab anyone who gets hit by or shields one of said missiles (Dark Pit could also just throw out an up smash if the opponent decides to jump over a missile), then throwing them back toward you for some kind of follow-up on your part. This kind of team strategy would obviously only work because team attack is off, so you have to think about how to take advantage of the fact that you don't have to worry about hitting your partner.

My distaste for FG doubles aside, let's take a look at your character synergy in the context of typical tourney-legal doubles matches. Outside of an early electroshock arm read at the ledge or edge-guarding a character with lackluster recovery options, Dark Pit sometimes has difficulty taking stocks (compared to top tiers, at least), and as we all know, Samus has a frightening tool at her disposal known as charge shot, so if we figure on your partner being an assistant to help you get the KO in most cases, how could you work together to make things happen? Well first of all, you need to be able to charge up your charge shot, so Dark Pit can help guard you while you're charging (if someone gets by your friend while you're trying to charge, remember you have the simple option to shield an incoming attack and then use screw attack out of shield if they're close enough). Though Samus is actually pretty good at getting grabs thanks to missile baiting opponents to shield or similar tactics, she's kind of left wide open if she misses the grab, so that's where your partner would come in again. Dark Pit has a very nice grab with predictable throw trajectories; work to understand the trajectories of Dark Pit's throws so you can follow with an easy airborne charge shot (perhaps facing away from your partner so as not to risk accidentally hitting them when team attack is on), or even an off-stage dair. If the opponent in question has a low damage % and you want to keep from staling charge shot, remember you can follow up with a couple up airs or something of that sort (your friend may not have the opportunity to take advantage of their own throw combos if the opponent's partner is waiting nearby to punish).

Anyway, this is getting too long, so in short, I believe Samus and Dark Pit could indeed be a very interesting team with some good strategies, provided you both understand your proper roles at the proper time. You could take a similar approach with Falco (I could see his naturally high jump and great aerials working very well as follow-ups to Dark Pit's throws, for instance), but your friend might want to practice rescuing you off-stage with an up air or something of that sort since Falco's recovery isn't ideal.

As for practicing some of these strategies, it's not a bad idea to start out with a 2v1 against a CPU, and then throw in a second CPU to learn how to deal with teamed pressure (the CPUs can be dumb, definitely, but it still helps). I would personally recommend level 7 over 8 or 9; 7 is a bit more human-like, in my opinion (except for when they stand around staring at you).

I hope I didn't rant too much, and this ends up helping you and your friend in some way. Most of all, you two have fun!

 

[Ruben Samich]

KniteBlargh Wow thanks for all the advice! And by the way, I've never really liked For Glory doubles all that much anyway for the same reasons. But anyway I will definitely take the advice you gave to heart and see if we can work together better. We're both fairly good at the game but in FG doubles we haven't really tried "understanding our roles" as you called it. That will probably help us a lot. We'll try training vs CPUs or maybe going into For Fun online so that it's against actual humans.

Thanks again!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

KniteBlargh Wow thanks for all the advice! And by the way, I've never really liked For Glory doubles all that much anyway for the same reasons. But anyway I will definitely take the advice you gave to heart and see if we can work together better. We're both fairly good at the game but in FG doubles we haven't really tried "understanding our roles" as you called it. That will probably help us a lot. We'll try training vs CPUs or maybe going into For Fun online so that it's against actual humans.

Thanks again!

Really any character can be good in dubs. You just gotta have a good strategy and synergy with your partner. Ex. I use Roy is dubs often and I use his great ground game to pop the enemy I. The air for my partner to get as cloud.

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

First off, good job keeping this thread alive, whoever did/does that. Second off, I play a melee fox first and foremost, but I enjoy sm4sh quite a bit (it's a love hate relationship, really). I have bounced around at least 2/3 of the cast, but haven't found anyone that's lasted more than two weeks. I love the sense of always having an option from fox and the flow of his gameplay. I guess I'm asking if there's a sm4sh version of this. Also, I love brawl minus squirtle (a mash up of sm4sh Mario combos and melee puff's aerials). So: who should I main?

 

[DarkestLaugh]

First off, good job keeping this thread alive, whoever did/does that. Second off, I play a melee fox first and foremost, but I enjoy sm4sh quite a bit (it's a love hate relationship, really). I have bounced around at least 2/3 of the cast, but haven't found anyone that's lasted more than two weeks. I love the sense of always having an option from fox and the flow of his gameplay. I guess I'm asking if there's a sm4sh version of this. Also, I love brawl minus squirtle (a mash up of sm4sh Mario combos and melee puff's aerials). So: who should I main?

In Sm4sh, there isn't. Closest to that you can get is probably Sheik, maybe Diddy Kong or Bayonetta. But the game overall wasn't made with the same design philosophies. They designed the characters to have counter play options. It feels like it was made by Riot sometimes. It does change the mindset needed though. Melee is more just try to go as hard as you can as fast as you can. Smash 4 you gotta think about your actions and their actions more, because they will both have more consequences.

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

In Sm4sh, there isn't. Closest to that you can get is probably Sheik, maybe Diddy Kong or Bayonetta. But the game overall wasn't made with the same design philosophies. They designed the characters to have counter play options. It feels like it was made by Riot sometimes. It does change the mindset needed though. Melee is more just try to go as hard as you can as fast as you can. Smash 4 you gotta think about your actions and their actions more, because they will both have more consequences.

I hear that. That's why I picked up sm4sh. It forces me to think more because I get punished more often if I don't. So to rephrase, I'm looking for a character with dominant control of match pace and having an option for most situations. I asked this somewhere else and got Shulk for tempo control because of his monado arts. I've tried low tiers, and...they kind of feel disgusting.

 

[FamilyTeam]

It really does sound like you want somebody like Sheik or Mario.
The problem is that Sheik has problems killing and Mario has range problems and is a bit over reliant on Pivot Back Throw and Up Smash to seal stocks.

 

[C0rvus]

I've found that Cloud has probably the closest movement to Melee characters. He's pretty dominant in air-to-air and air-to-ground situations, and has a really quick skid animation, so you can almost kinda Melee dashdance with him.

If you want characters with dominant neutral, that's .

I know that I have many friends who have found themselves fed up with Smash 4's mechanics have moved towards Sheik. She's strong but requires nuance. Her killing problem is maybe a little overstated by most, she has a bunch of setups and easily puts the opponent into a mixup situation. She's also among the most developed Smash 4 characters; her character forum on this site is one of the best. Her players are serious and driven folks... mostly.

I'm not gonna write an essay on the rest of them, but they're good too /shrug

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

So thank you all for the advice. But I'm basically going to ignore you all and play c. falcon. I watched two minutes of a Fatality montage and remembered the balls to the walls style and nonchalant feel that I loved with him. Also, he feels so fluid in everything he does...I get the feeling even as I type this. Played about 3 matches and found a perfect fit. But yes; I will keep my sheik polished, for...the sake of having a polished sheik, I guess. Also, I am a clueless dolt and can't figure out how to do the thing with the character head icons. So instruction would be greatly appreciated. A final thanks before I finish.

 

[DarkestLaugh]

Not even gonna lie I completely forgot about the Captain sadly enough. I could see how he'd fit that though.

 

[GrandMan]

I'm kind of new to smash 4 but I was looking for characters that have good combo games but aren't necessarily rush down characters. I normally prefer shorter characters because they can crouch under some attacks but I'm fine with anyone that's recommended

 

[FamilyTeam]

Zero Suit Samus doesn't exactly have an oppressive neutral, so maybe her?
I think other possibilities might include somebody like Kirby.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm kind of new to smash 4 but I was looking for characters that have good combo games but aren't necessarily rush down characters. I normally prefer shorter characters because they can crouch under some attacks but I'm fine with anyone that's recommended

You are looking . He's got great movement and combos, and he's a hit and run character so you don't have to be rushdown and can play campy if you wish. Otherwise is a good choice with nice combos too.

Hey guys I'm back. So I've decided to call 1-800-Top-Tier because I realize I want to win and isn't really my best choice. So I'm gonna make him like ZeRo has his Shulk, pocket/friendlies. So anyway I'm looking at because I already know his stuff from him being my secondary, cause he has a similar move set and great edgeguarding and range, and because she has a similar style to Roy and killing at bellow 70% is oh so satisfying.
Problem is I can't use all 3. That's just too much and unnecessary. All 3 are very fun, idk who is the most fun. So I wanna keep 2. Who do I keep? How do I decide? Pls help

Edit: or can I manage all 3? Would it be best not to?

 

[Nu~]

I'm kind of new to smash 4 but I was looking for characters that have good combo games but aren't necessarily rush down characters. I normally prefer shorter characters because they can crouch under some attacks but I'm fine with anyone that's recommended

Definitely.

Has all your requirements and he's really wacky/unique if you're into that.

 

[Nu~]

Speaking of which...

I'm looking for a char with a very non-linear game plan. I love diversity and versatility in nuetral.

Strict, defined gameplans like Meta Knight's are insufferable. I've been looking at Game&Watch since he's very wacky and non-linear, but do y'all have any more suggestions?


...Except "flaws galore" Pac-Man lol

 

[FamilyTeam]

This might sound like a joke, but you can take it as legit advice if you want to: Try out a new fighter, maybe. Try out a crazy, completely unconventional fighting game and see if maybe that's something you could enjoy.
Yes, of course I say that thinking of Touhou Hisoutensoku
Maybe Shulk would do? Or Bowser Jr.?

 

[C0rvus]

If you want to have flexibility in neutral, pick a top tier tbh. Not many characters have the luxury of being able to hard swap their style mid-match and be effective at both. Sheik comes to mind. (I swear, I end up recommending her too often. I don't even like her very much.) Marth/Lucina and Cloud have strong neutral as well.

Pikachu seems able to play very campy and keepaway, but also has the speed to be aggressive.

Samus has strong zoning tools but also threatens up close with her confirms in dash attack and falling up air, among others.