Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[DarkAuraful]

The Goldenbrawler
Hm... alright. Would you be open to the fact that I'll have to post up MU charts from Mr. E and Pugwest? Both are respective top Marth mains in their own rights but I know at some point, they considered using Lucina for certain matchups. Because the general opinion of Smashboards is that Lucina is a theoretical high / top tier because her fighting status to Marth's, it deducts that she also fights with the same advantages and same disadvantages.

I could even make my own opinion of who Lucina loses to based on those MU charts even though I never had any competitive experience (just For Glory, but the lag is why I go to Anthler's Ladder for 1v1s). I don't know what to tell you about Sonic, (I retreat to bait Sonic in approaching me online, but I'm sure your case is different since you're probably thinking of Sonic's from Spark, Komorikiri and Seagull Joe. They also probably play differently too.) await a update from me in the mean time.

EDIT: I'm on Reddit right now and I'm hearing things like Lucario has an advantage over Shiek. After seeing Tsu at Frostbite, it could be possible.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Ok. So with I need an answer for . He's the toughest mu for both and I'd like a solid pocket for him. Someone who beats him and is moderately easy to use. Would be the other mus. Who would there be? Not they're too hard for me.

I'm currently thinking .Of course open to more options.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I have returned for an update! After much consideration, I decided on the next cut. Almost all that I have played said that while I had potential with , my / overall seemed better, that and I still have been inconsistent with him. So has been cut.

SO! This just leaves me in a situation of vs . They each seem good in their own way, so this'll be a hard choice. I did hear might give trouble, and that is also 's worst MU. Not sure how that one goes, but that seems to be the only issue with picking .

 

[Dream Cancel]

I have returned for an update! After much consideration, I decided on the next cut. Almost all that I have played said that while I had potential with , my / overall seemed better, that and I still have been inconsistent with him. So has been cut.

SO! This just leaves me in a situation of vs . They each seem good in their own way, so this'll be a hard choice. I did hear might give trouble, and that is also 's worst MU. Not sure how that one goes, but that seems to be the only issue with picking .

Once again, it's really up to what you value in a playstyle. Lucario can beat Fox, assuming you don't get caught at about 80-110 percent by a confirm or a read. MU knowledge will take you a long way with Lucario (and tbh every single character in the game) because you can form a neutral game around their KO options.

Mewtwo is very solid all-around and top tier for many reasons. He is likely more consistent than Lucario as a main, but he could complement him well if chosen as a secondary.

Lastly, you don't have to solo main. Whatever main you do pick, it's always nice to have a comfort pick or a secondary to fall back on if you want to mix things up.

TL;DR They're both good so just pick one and play.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Once again, it's really up to what you value in a playstyle. Lucario can beat Fox, assuming you don't get caught at about 80-110 percent by a confirm or a read. MU knowledge will take you a long way with Lucario (and tbh every single character in the game) because you can form a neutral game around their KO options.

Mewtwo is very solid all-around and top tier for many reasons. He is likely more consistent than Lucario as a main, but he could complement him well if chosen as a secondary.

Lastly, you don't have to solo main. Whatever main you do pick, it's always nice to have a comfort pick or a secondary to fall back on if you want to mix things up.

TL;DR They're both good so just pick one and play.

Well I have as my secondary/co-main already. This choice has been difficult, as both &are both favorites of mine, I've been told I do well with both, and they both have fit criteria I'd like for a main like being able to counter 's bad MU's, as well as work solo just fine as well (Should a day come where I drop Lucina and go solo main, but that's unlikely.)

 

[Cyro_]

Well I have as my secondary/co-main already. This choice has been difficult, as both &are both favorites of mine, I've been told I do well with both, and they both have fit criteria I'd like for a main like being able to counter 's bad MU's, as well as work solo just fine as well (Should a day come where I drop Lucina and go solo main, but that's unlikely.)

Honestly I'd say is probably the better choice because he doesn't have to rely on aura to get KO power he can kill much easier at 0% compared to at 0%. Mewtwo I feel has a easier time dealing with bad MU's while Lucario has a bit harder of a time but it's not impossible for him in fact you can't really count Lucario out until the result screen since he has aura, but depending on the player and skill level it's the same for any character. The only down side personally for me is I hate how floaty Mewtwo is and I'm use to Lucario's movement over Mewtwo's. Plus anyone that can kill early really hurts Lucario. Not sure how helpful this was or if it was helpful at all, but just in case maybe it gave you a easier time deciding on the two.

 

[T4ylor]

I actually main , but I don't find him particularly fun. I have been using him from the start, but I've found it a struggle to improve, because I don't like him as a character in this game. He's simply too slow on the ground, nor do I care for Gordo traps.

Because of all the time I've spent with him I've developed some preferences: I like to ShieldGrab, Jab, have good range, and I dislike characters with too much mobility.

The characters I've enjoyed playing and am comfortable pulling out in tournament are . I don't play Pit, because I'm too lazy to learn how to use his Arrows and his costumes suck. I really enjoy playing as Dark Pit, but I dislike how his recovery is so easy to cover. I can tech in most situations, but still, it's uncomfortable. He also lacks the ability to seal out stocks (aside from ElectroShock on ledge) in an exciting way. I like everything about Charizard, but why use him when Bowser and DK have a much higher damage output off of grab as well as killing with it significantly earlier? Aside from Bowser's up throw being better I really like Whirling Fortress for dealing with cross ups. It's harder to cover ledge get ups with DK, but he gets down tilt and bair, both of which are stupid fun and good. But on the other hand, Rosalina and Toon Link are likely harder with DK than the others and I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing at a significant disadvantage.

Please try to sell me , because I don't want to regret trying to main him by later thinking something like, "If only I were a heavy with a kill confirm at 70-90%, I could have won that."

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I actually main , but I don't find him particularly fun. I have been using him from the start, but I've found it a struggle to improve, because I don't like him as a character in this game. He's simply too slow on the ground, nor do I care for Gordo traps.

Because of all the time I've spent with him I've developed some preferences: I like to ShieldGrab, Jab, have good range, and I dislike characters with too much mobility.

The characters I've enjoyed playing and am comfortable pulling out in tournament are . I don't play Pit, because I'm too lazy to learn how to use his Arrows and his costumes suck. I really enjoy playing as Dark Pit, but I dislike how his recovery is so easy to cover. I can tech in most situations, but still, it's uncomfortable. He also lacks the ability to seal out stocks (aside from ElectroShock on ledge) in an exciting way. I like everything about Charizard, but why use him when Bowser and DK have a much higher damage output off of grab as well as killing with it significantly earlier? Aside from Bowser's up throw being better I really like Whirling Fortress for dealing with cross ups. It's harder to cover ledge get ups with DK, but he gets down tilt and bair, both of which are stupid fun and good. But on the other hand, Rosalina and Toon Link are likely harder with DK than the others and I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing at a significant disadvantage.

Please try to sell me , because I don't want to regret trying to main him by later thinking something like, "If only I were a heavy with a kill confirm at 70-90%, I could have won that."

I strongly believe that is about just as good as , he's fast, has a crazy amount of armor on up and down b, has a down throw 50:50 with up air, fair, and rar bair. Also he has a tipper with his tail and nair is a very good move for starting tech chases and it's fast and lasts a long time. Also back throw is lagless.
Seeing how you used before I'd say stick with a heavy as your main and keep as a secondary. Now you just pick between . I think is the best out of all of them so I would say go with him but all are good and scary so whoever you feel most comfortable with. All have similar mu spreads too.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Ok. So with I need an answer for . He's the toughest mu for both and I'd like a solid pocket for him. Someone who beats him and is moderately easy to use. Would be the other mus. Who would there be? Not they're too hard for me.

I'm currently thinking .Of course open to more options.

I say out of the four. She'll provide you with a range advantage for your problems. Plus ZeRo's using her as a secondary for those and . Maybe he's just ZeRo, those players he fought with aren't top level intimating (Ignition is a weekly if I recall but he did defeat Zinoto and Ally with Lucina), or its just too recent to say, but I think Lucina will help you in the long run.

ZeRo seems like the type of person who will experiment a new character until he feels they're complete to use for more serious tournament levels. So far I'd say he's making good progress with using Lucina as a second character / main.

I don't know about but what I do when I fight him is to retreat to lure him since most Sonics I fought spin dash 24/7. Then once he misses, I go in for the punish. Just a tactical thought. Even then, that was when I solo main Lucina before picking up as a serious secondary so I relied PRIMARILY on skill.

UPDATE:
The Goldenbrawler
Here you go. Just coming in during my college final studying sessions. One's outdated compared to the other two who main Marth primarily but also co-main Lucina in certain match-ups. So maybe you can deduct some differences when making comparisons. Lucina shares Marth's statistics but her strength is ultimately different, so it won't be identical to her hypothetical MU charts. I'll update back to comment what Lucina could possibly win or lose but for now, I'm leaving it to you to analyze from here.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm going back to . Just didn't cut it for me. So I've got . Though I don't need a third, I want one and am currently exuding between . Who should I pick? All of them are fun so don't say the most fun.

 

[GoodGuy]

I've finally found the playstyle that fits me and now I'm wondering who fits the bill for that. Who do you guys think has the potential to have solid aggression and can back off and play defensive and shift between playstyles easily? I'm open to any other characters that aren't bottom tier (Like bottom 5).

 

[Nah]

I've finally found the playstyle that fits me and now I'm wondering who fits the bill for that. Who do you guys think has the potential to have solid aggression and can back off and play defensive and shift between playstyles easily? I'm open to any other characters that aren't bottom tier (Like bottom 5).

The first characters that come to my mind for that would be like , though they aren't necessarily the only characters that could potentially fit you either.

Though admittedly switching between aggression and defensive/reactive play is something everyone serious about doing well should be doing.....if their character allows for it anyway.

 

[C0rvus]

Hey, it's been a while. I've played a fair number of characters but always seem to let them drop. It's more than likely due to personal factors outside the game, and I'm working on it. Main crisis stemming from larger identity crisis, fun right?

I suppose my question is what factor is most important in selecting a main? I lack staying power, so an ideal for me would be a character that I like aesthetically, that I enjoy controlling, and that I feel I can expressively play. But that's all subjective mumbo jumbo.

Mostly just wanted to check in on this thread again. As always, I have experience with a laundry list of characters and would love to help others settle on competitive mains.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Nice_FZPSC.42 would bring a nice little change into your trio for when you want something different. I'd probably say next if it bothers you playing yet another character from the Donkey Kong franchise.


Hi C0rvus ! Missed seeing you around. I've been having that trouble with my secondary all over again as well; just so many factors that complicate making my "final" choice. I stayed with Sonic a while after you suggested him to me the last time, and actually had no real complaints, because I genuinely enjoyed pretty much everything about him, but I dropped him due to a silly issue involving my usual doubles pal. My mind has been an absolute mess over this.

Anyway, if I were to analyze and share my reasons for staying with my main all this time in spite of it turning out to be the lowest of the low, I'd say... First of all, I love Jigglypuff as a character (has been my favourite Pokemon since 1998, and Jiggs was my immediate and final main in 64), and the visual overhaul it received in this entry is, in my opinion, perfection. I was actually super worried the character wouldn't be returning to Wii U/3DS, so I was that much more hyped when it was clear Jiggs was back. Second, the character feels right to me; I couldn't say that about Melee or Brawl Jiggs, though I fiddled around with them here and there just for fun. Third, after discovering weaknesses with experience and time, it's as if I became more determined to do cool stuff with my favourite character and surprise opponents with unexpected or just plain stupid maneuvers that sometimes shouldn't even work, along with improving more necessary skills with the character (I feel I'm always learning, and always have room to improve). Fourth, among my "crew", no one thinks of me without thinking about Jigglypuff as well, which I honestly think is amazing, and it drives me to continue maining Jiggs. LOL

I would say out of the above points, the first was probably the most important factor for deciding on my main right from the beginning, followed by the second and third points sharing an equal amount of importance for me, and then finally the fourth point. Not sure if that helps you out at all, but there it is. It'd be nice if I could apply all of this to my secondary, but besides the fact that, after Jigglypuff, there are lots of characters I like, as I said, there are so many things holding me back from pinpointing who the heck I want to go with. Sm4sh life...

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

KniteBlargh all I want really is early kills and a good mu against . So how do against them?

 

[KniteBlargh]

Nice_FZPSC.42
- Based on MU chart averages, he's considered to go pretty much even with all three. His range isn't amazing, which forces him to close in at some point (fireballs are pretty easy to perfect shield), putting him in kind of a bad situation with any of the three you're considering. Landing with Mario under you can be a bit tricky with Marth and DK (I know some like to use DK's recovery special to reach a stage ledge instead of trying to land, but that doesn't always spell safety when facing Mario); definitely have to learn to mix up your landings with whatever options are available to you.
- A featherweight, so he can end up getting KO'd very early. Goes about even with ZSS, slight advantage over Marth, and supposedly a considerable advantage over DK. However, Marth has his lovely sword range, so smart and well-timed swipes can still give Fox trouble (if forced to recover, Marth can be particularly dangerous for him), not to mention counter is actually really useful on occasion since most Fox mains do love to put on constant pressure. Also, just because this MU is hard with DK doesn't mean it's impossible (I'm sure you're familiar with Hikaru vs Void at Civil War); Fox is, yes, very light, and that can still mean very early kills from the likes of ding dong and other DK shenanigans.
- Of course, very light like Fox, so can get KO'd earlier than a lot of the cast, but his recovery is much safer, so he doesn't get gimped easily. Forces ZSS to play differently since he's a short character (especially if the Pika knows how and when to crouch/crawl effectively). Considered to be one of ZSS's tougher opponents. Supposedly at least has a slight advantage over Marth and DK. Quite effective with edge-guards, so DK in particular could find himself in a very hairy situation if stuck on the ledge. Have to know how to utilize both Marth and DK's jabs and d-tilts to help snuff out Pikachu's approach, and while DK's jab 1 does have the tipper benefit of bringing an opponent close for the grab, its so-so range can put him in danger if used incorrectly against Pikachu, so I think he has to mix some bairs in as well. It's important to note that there aren't all that many great Pikachu mains out there; a lot of them seem to resort to camping, but Pikachu's projectile is a little laggy and susceptible to punishing if you're on point with your perfect shielding.

tl;dr: I'd say has the best average versus the above three.

Hope I managed to help you in some way.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

After playing the characters and testing thing the only one I've felt good with is so I'll go with . Thanks for the help everyone.

Silly me I forgot about cause I like her more than marth. So I'll just pick between her and

 

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

Long time no see. I came back to check on something. I consider myself to be a soloplayer for quite a while now, because I want to properly master the character (I don't think I'm good with him yet). Recently, I've been usingas a fun secondary, but once I feel I'm good enough with Mario, I want to pick her up to add up to my ''2 characters'' roster (I only want to master two fighters max). I don't pick Lucina for MU coverage purposes, but because I love the way she plays and her character just like Mario. But just by curiosity, what are your thoughts about theduo in terms of matchup coverage? Do they compliment each other well?

Let me know and thanks.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Kulty I think it's a great team! Mario generally goes pretty even with most of the top tiers and does great across the board, perhaps losing slightly to Cloud and Sonic. I really do believe Lucina has the tools to go even with Cloud, so she picks up for Mario in that MU. Sonic is still tricky, but it's not exactly terrible for either, just needs some knowledge of the MU. Lucina also has the benefit of disjointed hitboxes with nice range; most seem to feel that if anything holds Mario back at all, it's his lack of range (not like it's bad or anything, 'cause it isn't).

So yeah, I'd say you've done very well with your choices as far as MUs go.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Lucina is becoming more acknowledged and considered for her merits as a tournament cannidate and I love it. 2017 is totally her year.

 

[Kulty]

Well, a few days ago, it was Lucina's birthday (on April 20th), so happy late birthday, my waifu! At that point, I wanted to pick up Lucina, because I really do love Awakening (a decent starting point for new FE fans, but I think FE7 on GBA is the best one to start with) and when I picked her up, she felt natural. I'm not picking Lucina because of ZeRo or something (but I really love his Lucina. SO GOOD. XD). I just picked her by coincidence (I consider myself to have character loyalty with her along with my man Mario) and I didn't thought she would work well with Mario as some other fighters. I also think Lucina does decent against& maybe, which are considered to be Mario's hardest MUs. I don't know much about her, but I'll learn her matchups more when the time comes. Thanks again KniteBlargh! I really appreciate it.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I decided my 3rd, so I'm going with .

Kulty does not do too well against with the lack of multihits. But she does do good against and is pretty rare so you don't have to worry about him. I would look out for though cause he does well against both your characters, too. But that's it, you've got a great team lined up!

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

It's been a while, and so far, I'm still undecided between /. Regardless of who I pick, I'll have as co-main/secondary. It's strange that this is taking so long, considering I dropped the other characters I had listed as potential mains, in a consistent time span. I dropped first, as while I like how he plays in Melee, I just can't seem to get the same enjoyment in Smash 4 with him. 2 weeks after that, I dropped due to the suggestions of friends of mine that my is rather meh in comparison to the others, add on the fact his MU's apparently don't help in the slightest. 2 weeks later I dropped due to him being my weakest link left (considering was cut), that and he might not help 's MU's, but I've never been 100% sure on that. Then there's / who both seem to cover 's MU's well, but at the same time, they might both have an MU that they have problems with, that struggles with as well. Eh, anyways, 2 more weeks passed on Sunday, and I STILL somehow have not decided. So HOPEFULLY I'll have this figured out before this weekend ends. I really want this struggle to just be over already.

 

[Kulty]

I decided my 3rd, so I'm going with .

Kulty does not do too well against with the lack of multihits. But she does do good against and is pretty rare so you don't have to worry about him. I would look out for though cause he does well against both your characters, too. But that's it, you've got a great team lined up!

Oh thanks. But I think Lucina does better against Ryu than Mario, because she can outrange Ryu for days and he does have trouble approaching. So walling out Ryu is key to winning, so I think that Lucina is pretty decent against him even with the lack of multihits outside of Nair, jab combo, and Dancing Blade as long as she keeps the percent lead. But honestly, no character combination can cover all MUs, so I expected both characters that might not do great against some MUs, but frankly, I don't really care. Like I said before, I did not pick Lucina for MU coverage for Mario. I want to consider Lucina as if she was my second main, but unfortunately, I'm not ready to use her in tournament situations yet. But the time will come. Thanks again Nice_FZPSC.42. Very appreciated.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Kulty just space very carefully and use nair and Dancing blade a lot. Oos luck with your new character!

The Goldenbrawler well let's take a look at bad mus. Generally it's seen as
. Both do well against all, but I'd say has the slight edge mu wise. He can handle everyone here but might be tricky. But is rare and if you abuse rage against then you'll be just fine.

 

[C0rvus]

Just chiming in to say that Marcina does more than fine against Ryu. Considering Ryu is a character that has to engage in close to mid range, and Marth and Lucina handle that range and then some with their swords, they do fine. Jab 1 > 2 and dancing blade are quick enough multi-hits to handle Focus in neutral and advantage, respectively. Most of the time, you should be playing outside of Focus's range anyway. Nair seems like a good landing trap option that blows up Focus, but I'm not an expert on either character, so grain of salt and all that.

I used to make this mistake too, but don't stress too much about matchup coverage, unless you're looking for a character specifically for coverage. It's better to try and grind those hard MUs out with one character. If that isn't getting you anywhere, then consider bringing another character. Another thing to remember, it's going to take time. Everyone else is putting in work too. Don't expect quick results or you're likely to disappoint yourself.

Keep at it, and don't give up.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Who does better against between ? Looking at pocket for them.
I know I said I'm going with lucina but I kinda wanna look at another option if it's better.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Who does better against between ? Looking at pocket for them.

Lucina goes even at best against Fox and Pikachu, but she wins versus Mario. Can't speak for the rest

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Update: I'm just trying to cover . Can do it?​

 

[DarkAuraful]

I think she can do fine against those two characters.

 

[C0rvus]

Lucina is pretty unga, but she can help your neutral develop. I'd recommend her for that reason alone, and because she's quite good atm.

Still stuck floating between characters. Can't find one that stands above the rest, but I enjoy quite a handful of them. Nothing compels me to stay with one or two for very long before I get bored and cycle through the rest :/

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Still stuck floating between characters. Can't find one that stands above the rest, but I enjoy quite a handful of them. Nothing compels me to stay with one or two for very long before I get bored and cycle through the rest :/

I honestly doubt I'd be of much help, considering in an opposite scenario. I like both Lucario and Mewtwo, how they play, I do well with both, and friends reccomendations are typically split between the 2. Idk who to pick, and even when someone gives me a reason why to drop one, it pains me to think of dropping the other. Regardless, my situation will be coming to a close by tomorrow at the latest (I truly hope). Picking between these two seems like a test of loyalty though, soooo...
Anyways, in an attempt to help you, answer the following questions abput your characters:
A. Do you like the character and the series their from?
B. Do you enjoy how they play?
C. Do you do well with the character?
That's my typical baseline process, granted, I still had at least 5 characters to look through. You then have to consider the MU's, get some other people's thoughts on your characters, ask if you see yourself playing this character, etc. Hope that is of some help, because that's all I think I can say.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Still stuck floating between characters. Can't find one that stands above the rest, but I enjoy quite a handful of them. Nothing compels me to stay with one or two for very long before I get bored and cycle through the rest :/

I understand this immensely. What I'd say is just play them all 1-2 at a time until one of them just feels right. Honestly that's all you can. Just play who you really wanna play and whoever feels natural and right for you.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Still stuck floating between characters. Can't find one that stands above the rest, but I enjoy quite a handful of them. Nothing compels me to stay with one or two for very long before I get bored and cycle through the rest :/

Taking in the basic yet golden answers the two previous members told you about are important, but there's also character fascination to think about as well.

What I mean by that is well... have you witnessed any of these characters have a highlight due to them being represented by a competitive player? If you've seen something you've never seen before or could do exploited by that character that just shouts "I can do that with this character?!" or "I never thought that he/she had it in him/her!"

I'm sure you can already find those in montages from other Youtubers, but the competitive players would be more effective in exploiting what that character's capable of. They are the ones bringing out higher names for both themselves and their mains after all.

The common thing that both competitive players and Youtubers have is a degree of skill and technique (varying extent even then), but I find competitive players to be more inspiring, Trela and Locus being examples of mine. Just something to think about, which helped in my character selection.

 

[C0rvus]

I think that's part of my problem. I see a character do cool ****, or even just watch them at high level, and I have the urge to play them too. It usually doesn't last, of course.

I've just today made a venn diagram of those three qualities, and it's a nice way to organize your thoughts. Toon Link and Lucario fit all three categories, and I have been playing them regularly. Lucario was my focus for a while but is falling off, Toon Link isn't fun all the time but he has been lately.

Maybe I just have a short attention span or bad mindset, but I let myself slip too often because I never have one character that clearly stands out. And then I get into nonsense like getting hung up on aesthetics of my main and secondary as a pair, and so on. I'm a mess lmao.

 

[T4ylor]

C0rvus I know exactly how you feel, it took me a long time but I just got through that. I'd advise you to keep searching.

Despite what my profile says, I do not main Diddy. I have mained since the beginning, but I never really enjoyed playing as him and, because of that, I had a hard time improving. For secondaries I went though . Couldn't stick to one, so I rotated through them for bad match ups. I really liked playing the grab game, good combos off grab is what they all have in common. It turns out that wasn't what I liked most, I liked playing keep away, but I never really accepted it. It wasn't until one day someone I played told me I sucked at offense, but was good at defense, and should play a character that doesn't need to approach that I started to look into different options. I ended up landing withGunner, which plays to my strengths more than any other character I have played.

 

[GoodGuy]

The first characters that come to my mind for that would be like , though they aren't necessarily the only characters that could potentially fit you either.

Though admittedly switching between aggression and defensive/reactive play is something everyone serious about doing well should be doing.....if their character allows for it anyway.

So I took some of your suggestions and played around with some of my own and found out that I like, ,,,,, and / and I was wondering who works the best with a reactive playstyle out of those characters. I'm honestly looking for a jack of all-trades best of none type of character.

 

[DarkAuraful]

G GoodGuy
and (if she's still considered one; which I think she is) sounds right up your alley. and as well if you're willing to try them out.

 

[Niche]

Who are characters who are thought to be good that like no one plays i.e.greninja

 

[DeltaForce]

Pikachu is one, Greninja, Peach, Ryu (he is complicated but idk his popularity) Lucas, Villager (again not sure of his popularity),

This is my list but this is off the top of my head people are welcome to add to the list or correct me. (this post will be edited if I find more)