Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Agitato]

Most of the notable Ike mains have seemingly switched to maining Corrin instead, and it's funny, because while he/she may be a better character, I feel like their results haven't necessarily been improved all that much. It's a shame, though, because it's so fun to see a really good Ike in action.

I think when it comes to Ike, it's absolutely essential to keep his quickest/safest attacks in mind. His down tilt has deceivingly decent range, and it's something I've seen players like Ryo get a lot of use from in the past; bonus points for the fact that it launches opponents vertically. His counter helps when dealing with rushdown types or people who play aggressively (obviously not something to abuse, but still, it's there for when the need arises). Neutral special has nice ledge option coverage with proper spacing, even hitting quite a distance below the ledge. Also, the fact that he actually has a 50/50 off a grab now can't be ignored. Overall, Ike is quite overlooked, but he has plenty to offer besides what I've mentioned, and he needs more friends to fight for.

Very true. I use D-tilt a fair amount and counter when appropriate, but Eruption/neutral B is something I essentially never utilize, which I'll have to work on.

 

[DietDrKelp]

Agitato
Ike is a super underrated character and is someone who cannot be ignored if played well. I had the opportunity to play with Ryo at a regional which was held in Mississippi (Afterglow) and he showed me a lot of the footstool tricks Ike can perform. The first game that I decided to put money on the table, He zero to deathed me off the bat. The character has a very strong neutral but has to be played more patiently as he is a lot more honest in this game. I used to play PM and mained Roy, however, when anyone picked Ike, I would always play marth just because of how challenging it was to play against Ike (the one move neutral). In this game, he has combo throws off up throw mainly and down throw at very early percents as down throw becomes his kill throw later. Spacing fair is the name of the game when playing Ike, and like others have mentioned, all of his tilts are very good, as well as a very strong jab. His best move is pretty much bair, as it auto-cancels well and is safe on shield if spaced. Neutral b is good for two-framing and you cannot jump cancel side b (sadly). If you want to see good Ike play, Ryo is your way to go. His Corrin is not as good as his Ike by any means, as there are plenty of better Corrin mains like Ryuga and Cosmos. Anyways, hope this helped a little!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So right now I'm having a lot of fun with . But is my favorite character in this game other than . So should I use him? He's also very fun to use. Or should I stick with one of the first 3?

 

[Agitato]

He's viable enough, and the fact that you enjoy using him will probably make it easier to get wins than with a top-tier you're not comfortable with. I say go for it.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

He's viable enough, and the fact that you enjoy using him will probably make it easier to get wins than with a top-tier you're not comfortable with. I say go for it.

The thing is I'm comfortable with all of them. So what should I do?

 

[Agitato]

The thing is I'm comfortable with all of them. So what should I do?

What I would do is play against someone good (e.g. not For Glory, either some kind of online matchmaking or offline friendlies) with all of them and see who nets you the best results.

And just disregard Roy lol. He sadly exists only as a meme character.

 

[Justinian]

Nice_FZPSC.42

You said Roy and Toon Link are your favorites, right? Just play both of them. Roy's not a "meme character" (Hyper alone has been pulling amazing results with the character), and even if he were, it shouldn't matter if he's your favorite. If there's one thing this game should have taught us by now, it's that almost the entire cast is viable at almost every level of play, all the way to the top. If you like and believe in your character, that's not all that matters, but it's a pretty big chunk. That'll give you motivation to play them despite their bad matchups, which in turn will let you focus on them instead of on picking up secondaries, which will make you a stronger player.

Go / . Have fun, believe in your characters, ignore the haters, climb the ranks.

 

[Agitato]

Nice_FZPSC.42

You said Roy and Toon Link are your favorites, right? Just play both of them. Roy's not a "meme character" (Hyper alone has been pulling amazing results with the character), and even if he were, it shouldn't matter if he's your favorite. If there's one thing this game should have taught us by now, it's that almost the entire cast is viable at almost every level of play, all the way to the top. If you like and believe in your character, that's not all that matters, but it's a pretty big chunk. That'll give you motivation to play them despite their bad matchups, which in turn will let you focus on them instead of on picking up secondaries, which will make you a stronger player.

Go / . Have fun, believe in your characters, ignore the haters, climb the ranks.

Roy is a low-mid tier character. This game might be a step up in balance from Brawl, but the lowest characters you could argue for being viable - at least as solo mains - would maybe be some D-tiers. Roy players have been delusional about his potential ever since Melee, and continuing through PM. His recovery is bad, his frame data is bad, his combos are easy to DI out of, and his fall speed makes him pure combo food himself. Playing Roy in a casual setting is fun, but he's not going to win anything significant, no matter how many times you chant "ROY'S OUR BOY" or something about "teh f1r3".

Also, secondaries do not necessarily make you a stronger player. Top level players can handle them well, but low-level Smash is full of people with 5-10 characters of varying main, secondary, or pocket status, AKA people who make little progress because they can't focus on MUs and other vital character-specific information. For some reason Smash is really terrible about this, maybe because characters are so easy to pick up. But in respect to actually getting good with and mastering your character, you should focus on one or two maximum. Characters like Sheik are a great example of this - very strong but her tools are heavily situational and require prudence in how they're used.

Nice_FZPSC.42 , just pick someone viable, like the four you mentioned, and learn everything about them. It will save you a lot of trouble trying to make a diamond out of a turd.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Roy players have been delusional about his potential ever since Melee, and continuing through PM.

Pardon me for interjecting, but what do you mean by "Roy players being delusional about his potential continuing through PM?" I know how competitively flawed / limited he is in both Sm4sh and Melee, but PM in particular that doesn't seem to make sense.

I personally never played PM myself (and I probably won't end up doing so at any point), but that mod's suppose to have the best balance in the series, meaning everyone's equal in terms of viability, correct?

 

[Justinian]

Roy is a low-mid tier character. This game might be a step up in balance from Brawl, but the lowest characters you could argue for being viable - at least as solo mains - would maybe be some D-tiers. Roy players have been delusional about his potential ever since Melee, and continuing through PM. His recovery is bad, his frame data is bad, his combos are easy to DI out of, and his fall speed makes him pure combo food himself. Playing Roy in a casual setting is fun, but he's not going to win anything significant, no matter how many times you chant "ROY'S OUR BOY" or something about "teh f1r3".

Also, secondaries do not necessarily make you a stronger player. Top level players can handle them well, but low-level Smash is full of people with 5-10 characters of varying main, secondary, or pocket status, AKA people who make little progress because they can't focus on MUs and other vital character-specific information. For some reason Smash is really terrible about this, maybe because characters are so easy to pick up. But in respect to actually getting good with and mastering your character, you should focus on one or two maximum. Characters like Sheik are a great example of this - very strong but her tools are heavily situational and require prudence in how they're used.

Nice_FZPSC.42 , just pick someone viable, like the four you mentioned, and learn everything about them. It will save you a lot of trouble trying to make a diamond out of a turd.

Addressing your second paragraph first, I think you misunderstood my post. I'm a big advocate for solo maining unless you're at a point as a player where certain matchups are holding you back. I think that playing and practicing more than one or two characters actively limits your growth as a player, because as you said, that keeps you from learning as much about character and matchup-specific tech, data and interactions. I was recommending that Nice main his favorite characters because if he does, he'll be more likely to want to stick it out and learn hard matchups, just out of enjoyment of and passion for the characters, which in turn will make him less likely to pick up a secondary (picking up a secondary/ies would, in my eyes, limit player growth). This misunderstanding may have been due to poor word choice in my original post, so my apologies, but make no mistake, people who claim to have eight or ten tournament-level secondaries kind of grind my gears as well.

As for Roy being a meme... the only people shouting overdone Roy memes (which, again, trust me, annoy me to no end) are the casual players who value the memes as much as the actual character. A lot of character communities have this to varying extents (Falcon, Shulk and Fox for example), but I will say Roy's is the most... interesting, shall we say, out of the communities I'm involved with. You generally don't see competitive players who put time into mastering their character (in this case, Hyper or Sethlon for example) spamming memes like you see in some discords. As for Roy's tier placement, his top players have invested tons of time into expanding his meta recently, with players like Hyper and Ryo consistently pulling wins on PGR players with the character. It's fine to state things as you think they are, but all pessimism is going to do is get in the way of players who do want to expand the meta of perceived low-tiers.

Also, as I mentioned, at all but top level, definitely at a local level, a vast majority of the cast is viable, so I see no reason to limit one's picks to top X characters at the local or regional level, especially when players like Leo, Ranai, and Kameme have appeared on the national and international scene to take names using characters that were, at the time, not even seen as top 15 or 20. We as a community have only unlocked a fraction of most characters' potential in part because of the general unfounded stigma against low tiers.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Ok um... no one knows viability like Roy mains like me and Ryo do. He's top 25. Low-High tier. He goes even with . Also he beats . He's pretty dang good. My issue with him is that he's not a top tier.

But anyways with the talking with the better players in my region and trying characters out I've found to also be a possibility along with . So I've got these 4 to chose 2 from. I'm still debating how much I want to use competitively and so hopefully I can figure that out soon and finally just get my characters picked.

 

[Nah]

just gonna leave a few thoughts here since i have nothing better to do

1) No one imo should be solo-maining these days in this game. Given the sheer number of characters in this game, and the varying playstyles people have, you're eventually going to run into something that you're going to have immense difficulty dealing with just that character alone. I like to think of dual-maining as if it's Fire Emblem Awakening/Fate's Pair-Up mechanic.

Before you say "git gud and learn the MU", you can do that yes, but it's also a two-way street, your opponent can also learn the MU as well and now you're back to square one. Even if you aren't uncomfortable in the MU or your character doesn't necessarily lose it, you can still use another character to make your life even easier. Maybe your opponent happens to have problems dealing with how you play X but not Y. Maybe they've figured out how you play A a little too well and so switching to B will help you win the set. It even helps with boredom. Like, as much as one can love a character, don't you want to play some others too, break the routine?

You of course don't want to go to the other extreme and "main" too many characters. Spread yourself way too thin that way, make yourself way less effective with each of them. 2 is generally the best number, maaaaaybe 3 depending on the player and characters. You have people like Nairo and AnTi with their gazillion pockets but they're more like exceptions, and are top-level players as well.

2) At a local level you can generally do alright with almost anyone (but again, not solo). Unless you are completely amazeballs tho (so not the vast majority of people) your choice in character starts to become more and more a limiting factor as you go up in levels of play. Ganondorf is not making top 8 at a major anytime soon.

3) If you're going to make the claim that a character is significantly better or worse than generally perceived, you need to provide a detailed and damn good argument to do so.




.....also, just random curiosity to see what other people think: who do y'all think that would be a good co-main for , and who for ?

 

[Locuan]

Seeing a bit of discussion about solo-main/dual main. It all comes down to your personal goals with the game.

• Do you just want to have fun? What's your definition of fun?
• Do you want to be competitive?
  • Are you looking to win locals, nationals, majors?
  • Are you looking to be the best with your particular character?
• Do you want to focus on a particular format?
  • Singles?
  • Doubles?

So yea, there's a lot of questions you can ask yourself. Once you do, you can start seeing character choices that fit your preferred style of play. So in essence, the idea of solo or dual main comes down to how your goals align with the game.

And that's my view.

 

[Olyiis]

So I'm trying out Ness as a possible main as well, together with Palu and Zelda. I really like his playstyle but I just keep getting absolutely annihilated by a lvl 7 Corrin CPU, even though with Zelda and Palu I win every fight againt a lvl 8 one. Is that just because I suck with ness? Does it take time to learn Ness properly? Or is Corrin just a nightmare MU?

 

[Nah]

So I'm trying out Ness as a possible main as well, together with Palu and Zelda. I really like his playstyle but I just keep getting absolutely annihilated by a lvl 7 Corrin CPU, even though with Zelda and Palu I win every fight againt a lvl 8 one. Is that just because I suck with ness? Does it take time to learn Ness properly? Or is Corrin just a nightmare MU?

Corrin is indeed a bad MU for Ness.

 

[Olyiis]

Corrin is indeed a bad MU for Ness.

Hmm that's a shame. What about Zelda, Palu, Pika or Robin?

EDIT: nvm I found a matchup table lol http://i.imgur.com/QaTNqCP.png

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Well hello again. My indecisiveness brought me back here one last time. I say last, as this is the last time I wish to debate on the 2nd character I shall be playing. I've been here before, as I've said, I main mostly, but prefer some variety with a co-main. I co main characters in Pokken, Rivals of Aether, etc. And if it helps, those characters are: Gardevoir and (EVENTUALLY) Darkrai for Pokken, and Absa and Forsburn for Rivals.
Anyways, I took a decently extended break from smash to catch up with life, and upon returning, decided to give a multitude of characters second chances for spot #2. After all that, it boiled down to: &...again. (The last one being removed for being inconsistent for me)
Now, I'm just left sitting here thinking: Who exactly? I mean, is the least likely, so he's probably out as well. 1. because a friend of mine who goes to tournaments already plays him and I'd rather let Lucario be his thing...if that makes sense. And 2. I don't want to look like I'm bandwagoning off of Tsu vs Zero. So that basically leaves and for me.
To give an idea, my typical process on picking characters is actually thanks to a guide I saw on this site, I believe by a user named SamuraiPanda. To sum it up I ask myself 3 questions:
1. Do I like the character's playstyle?
2. Do I like the character?
3. Do I do well with the character?
And for those 2 characters, the answers are yes to all 3.
I got to the point of having to flip a coin, and even then, I kept questioning it, no matter who one. Now I'm looking to see who of them would be better MU wise. If I'm going to co-main a character, I'm going to want them to be able to help with 's Matchups. Hopefully somebody here can help me out, so this debate of mine can finally come to an end.

 

[DarkAuraful]

The Goldenbrawler
Out of those two I could see Mewtwo complementing Lucina more effectively than Meta Knight. Maybe it's because from my experience, I had a hard time fighting against characters such as Link, Robin and Samus that interrupt my spacing / zoning with their projectiles before.

I'm not exactly sure if you would consider those examples her bad match-ups but I can see Mewtwo doing well against these characters. He has a reflector, great air speed, frame data and a good grab game.

At least from my guess that is. I should probably go find a Lucina MU chart to be more knowledgeable about my main right now.

 

[Linkip]

Well hello again. My indecisiveness brought me back here one last time. I say last, as this is the last time I wish to debate on the 2nd character I shall be playing. I've been here before, as I've said, I main mostly, but prefer some variety with a co-main. I co main characters in Pokken, Rivals of Aether, etc. And if it helps, those characters are: Gardevoir and (EVENTUALLY) Darkrai for Pokken, and Absa and Forsburn for Rivals.
Anyways, I took a decently extended break from smash to catch up with life, and upon returning, decided to give a multitude of characters second chances for spot #2. After all that, it boiled down to: &...again. (The last one being removed for being inconsistent for me)
Now, I'm just left sitting here thinking: Who exactly? I mean, is the least likely, so he's probably out as well. 1. because a friend of mine who goes to tournaments already plays him and I'd rather let Lucario be his thing...if that makes sense. And 2. I don't want to look like I'm bandwagoning off of Tsu vs Zero. So that basically leaves and for me.
To give an idea, my typical process on picking characters is actually thanks to a guide I saw on this site, I believe by a user named SamuraiPanda. To sum it up I ask myself 3 questions:
1. Do I like the character's playstyle?
2. Do I like the character?
3. Do I do well with the character?
And for those 2 characters, the answers are yes to all 3.
I got to the point of having to flip a coin, and even then, I kept questioning it, no matter who one. Now I'm looking to see who of them would be better MU wise. If I'm going to co-main a character, I'm going to want them to be able to help with 's Matchups. Hopefully somebody here can help me out, so this debate of mine can finally come to an end.

Mewtwo with Marth/Lucina is a very common set up a lot of my fellow Mewtwo mains use. I personally don't really like Marth but those 2 characters do seem to work together. Mewtwo is a defensive and punishing character. So keeping your opponents away with Shadow Balls while waiting for your opponent to mess up is something you gotta get used to. Mewtwo is known for spacing D-tilts and F-airs so if you're familiar with doing that when you play Marth you should feel at home. Good luck deciding on your secondary i hope you make the right choice.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

The Goldenbrawler
Out of those two I could see Mewtwo complementing Lucina more effectively than Meta Knight. Maybe it's because from my experience, I had a hard time fighting against characters such as Link, Robin and Samus that interrupt my spacing / zoning with their projectiles before.

I'm not exactly sure if you would consider those examples her bad match-ups but I can see Mewtwo doing well against these characters. He has a reflector, great air speed, frame data and a good grab game.

At least from my guess that is. I should probably go find a Lucina MU chart to be more knowledgeable about my main right now.

I've tried looking for a MU chart, but haven't had any luck, at least, not with here. I've found some with and , but they have differing thoughts, therefore I don't know which are more reliable. I also haven't played at tournament level yet, so I can't confirm or deny what you've said, since I haven't seen many people playing those characters. I just know, if I'm picking up a co-main, I want them to help with the overall MU spread, cutting the need for any other characters. So if that does end up being , I suppose I'm game. I'll just have a hard time dropping , as I have a bias towards both characters.

Mewtwo with Marth/Lucina is a very common set up a lot of my fellow Mewtwo mains use. I personally don't really like Marth but those 2 characters do seem to work together. Mewtwo is a defensive and punishing character. So keeping your opponents away with Shadow Balls while waiting for your opponent to mess up is something you gotta get used to. Mewtwo is known for spacing D-tilts and F-airs so if you're familiar with doing that when you play Marth you should feel at home. Good luck deciding on your secondary i hope you make the right choice.

Hm, well as someone who typically plays more aggressively than defensively, I wonder if can be played in such a way. I have bias towards and , so it's hard to decide between the two. As I said in my response to DarkAuraful, I'm not sure on MU's, and there's multiple charts with different thoughts, so when I've tried to look, I've never been able to find the answers I'm looking for.

While I'm leaning towards >now, due to what's been said about their MU's, maybe I need someone who's played and knows the MU's to give me their thoughts for finalization? That, and I have a friend telling me to reconsider , since they believe my inconsistencies will be able to be worked out properly if I put more time in. I have my doubts, as I just kinda assumed did a better job as the offensive rushdown kind of character, but I also heard is more of a hit and run character. Thought I should bring him and back up and get some thoughts on them since I'm here, even if I'm more inclined to pick up or .
I've been more indecisive on this specific choice for a longer time than I'd care to admit. I just want to be 100% clear before I make this choice, and I want to try and have this figured out BEFORE I go to my first local. Perhaps I should go to these characters specific Q&A forums and get some MU thoughts from there as well? Anyways, I'd like to thank you both for your help thus far, I greatly appreciate it! Here's hoping that I'll be able to finalize my co-mains very soon! :3

 

[Linkip]

I've tried looking for a MU chart, but haven't had any luck, at least, not with here. I've found some with and , but they have differing thoughts, therefore I don't know which are more reliable. I also haven't played at tournament level yet, so I can't confirm or deny what you've said, since I haven't seen many people playing those characters. I just know, if I'm picking up a co-main, I want them to help with the overall MU spread, cutting the need for any other characters. So if that does end up being , I suppose I'm game. I'll just have a hard time dropping , as I have a bias towards both characters.

Hm, well as someone who typically plays more aggressively than defensively, I wonder if can be played in such a way. I have bias towards and , so it's hard to decide between the two. As I said in my response to DarkAuraful, I'm not sure on MU's, and there's multiple charts with different thoughts, so when I've tried to look, I've never been able to find the answers I'm looking for.

While I'm leaning towards >now, due to what's been said about their MU's, maybe I need someone who's played and knows the MU's to give me their thoughts for finalization? That, and I have a friend telling me to reconsider , since they believe my inconsistencies will be able to be worked out properly if I put more time in. I have my doubts, as I just kinda assumed did a better job as the offensive rushdown kind of character, but I also heard is more of a hit and run character. Thought I should bring him and back up and get some thoughts on them since I'm here, even if I'm more inclined to pick up or .
I've been more indecisive on this specific choice for a longer time than I'd care to admit. I just want to be 100% clear before I make this choice, and I want to try and have this figured out BEFORE I go to my first local. Perhaps I should go to these characters specific Q&A forums and get some MU thoughts from there as well? Anyways, I'd like to thank you both for your help thus far, I greatly appreciate it! Here's hoping that I'll be able to finalize my co-mains very soon! :3

Hmmm Mewtwo is definitely a more defensive character but i think he can still be played aggressively just not to the same level as defensive Mewtwo. I feel if you're good at reading and punishing mistakes you could still go with Mewtwo.
Of course i do recommend trying Mewtwo defensively since when i first picked up Mewtwo i thought i was gonna drop him because i thought i was a aggressive player, but after a while i kinda adapted and now i'm a more defensive player.

I've heard Greninja is a very hard character to pick up so maybe not the best choice for a secondary but I've barely played Greninja so i might not be the best person to listen to. And i don't know much about Meta Knight or Lucario but i do think Meta Knight could be the right choice since i've heard he's a pretty aggressive character.

Definitely visit the boards for those 4 characters, i'm sure those people have some great stuff to add. Good luck!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So after the advice I got from Bang! (#1 on PR in CO) I know that I need to do some soul searching and find that character that just clicks with me and is the one that I'm destined to play. In this search I've found 5. . In melee and brawl it was easy because there where1-2 characters that easily stuck out to me and were fun and good . Obviously I've found a pattern. Fire Emblem. My favorite series. And aggressive play with a disjoint/ good range. And good combo games and a tilt to send my enemy into the air and a good air game.
Anyways I will be playing these 5 in friendlies for a while until I can narrow down to the 1-2 that I know I should play. Wish me luck!

 

[Heracr055]

I'm in an intriguing juncture in my Smash character exploration. I have my Ryu that has hit his short term peak, so I'm going to put him on the back burner for now. I used Greninja for about 2 months on and off. I used him in some recent offline battles and we've made some nice progress (though I think we can do better). Lastly, I hear quite a bit of division over ZSS with respect to her position on the tier list. Many feel she's either not in top 5, top 10 or even top tier. I think now would be a good time to start using her and prove the naysayers wrong.

 

[Tichondrius]

This is kind of an odd question, but what I'm looking for is a main with solid fundamentals. I was wondering if someone could recommend something.

So, story time. I've been playing smash at a sort-of competitive level since Smash 4 came out, and melee beforehand. I'm not bad at all, but I've always been unpolished and have had a hard time sticking to a main. I stopped playing a year into 4, and I'm trying to come back. But I've lost a lot, and I've been a bit directionless. I came to the conclusion that I needed to brush up on and develop my fundamentals before I can move any further as a player, and I want a character that will help me with that.

So, I want a character that is,
- Easy to moderately difficult to learn. Not something that I'd have to master before even thinking of playing another person, like .
- good or at least passable in neutral.
- good for helping teach fundamentals; spacing, timing, shielding, etc. This is the core.
- doesn't rely on gimmicks, like projectile spam or a single combo that they repeat over and over.
- Something flexible that I can take into many situations and do fairly well with.
- Something that I can stick with. Like I've said, I have trouble sticking to a main. I want something with a lowish skill floor that still rewards good play if done well.
- isn't
- Nothing with too many bad matchups.
I want the of Smash, but not actually. Simple, effective, easy to learn, and rewarding. Doesn't even have to be too good, just something with the above traits. Does such a character exist?

 

[Heracr055]

^Pit/Dark Pit. They're the Ryu of this game.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

This is kind of an odd question, but what I'm looking for is a main with solid fundamentals. I was wondering if someone could recommend something.

So, story time. I've been playing smash at a sort-of competitive level since Smash 4 came out, and melee beforehand. I'm not bad at all, but I've always been unpolished and have had a hard time sticking to a main. I stopped playing a year into 4, and I'm trying to come back. But I've lost a lot, and I've been a bit directionless. I came to the conclusion that I needed to brush up on and develop my fundamentals before I can move any further as a player, and I want a character that will help me with that.

So, I want a character that is,
- Easy to moderately difficult to learn. Not something that I'd have to master before even thinking of playing another person, like .
- good or at least passable in neutral.
- good for helping teach fundamentals; spacing, timing, shielding, etc. This is the core.
- doesn't rely on gimmicks, like projectile spam or a single combo that they repeat over and over.
- Something flexible that I can take into many situations and do fairly well with.
- Something that I can stick with. Like I've said, I have trouble sticking to a main. I want something with a lowish skill floor that still rewards good play if done well.
- isn't
- Nothing with too many bad matchups.
I want the of Smash, but not actually. Simple, effective, easy to learn, and rewarding. Doesn't even have to be too good, just something with the above traits. Does such a character exist?

. There you go they're all very good characters who have some inventive stuff and great neutrals and combos. All pretty easy to learn to and can and have been proven good solo mains.

 

[DietDrKelp]

This is kind of an odd question, but what I'm looking for is a main with solid fundamentals. I was wondering if someone could recommend something.

So, story time. I've been playing smash at a sort-of competitive level since Smash 4 came out, and melee beforehand. I'm not bad at all, but I've always been unpolished and have had a hard time sticking to a main. I stopped playing a year into 4, and I'm trying to come back. But I've lost a lot, and I've been a bit directionless. I came to the conclusion that I needed to brush up on and develop my fundamentals before I can move any further as a player, and I want a character that will help me with that.

So, I want a character that is,
- Easy to moderately difficult to learn. Not something that I'd have to master before even thinking of playing another person, like .
- good or at least passable in neutral.
- good for helping teach fundamentals; spacing, timing, shielding, etc. This is the core.
- doesn't rely on gimmicks, like projectile spam or a single combo that they repeat over and over.
- Something flexible that I can take into many situations and do fairly well with.
- Something that I can stick with. Like I've said, I have trouble sticking to a main. I want something with a lowish skill floor that still rewards good play if done well.
- isn't
- Nothing with too many bad matchups.
I want the of Smash, but not actually. Simple, effective, easy to learn, and rewarding. Doesn't even have to be too good, just something with the above traits. Does such a character exist?

So within the constraints you've given, you're looking for an above average character with specific rewards for certain core mechanics. You're looking for rewards off of play that is essentially what you believe the heart of the game to be. I've played a fair amount of competitive SFIV and V and can tell you that is very hard to get a character that meets all of your requirements, as in you may have to compromise in one area or another. Like when you ask for "not relying on the same combo," but also asking for a "low skill floor" and "something flexible." Still, there are characters that can meet most of your requests.
Characters that come to mind when I think about fundamental characters:
Pit (as mentioned above) - still lacks flexible tools and relies somewhat on same rinse and repeat combos
Diddy Kong - Relies on banana most of the time for neutral, but has lots of tools and relatively low skill floor and high skill ceiling. Combos are sort of rinse and repeat but not that bad. Takes practice and requires more knowledge than other characters to continue to do well as you get better with him.
Mewtwo - Mewtwo carries lots of the traits you are looking for, but has some flaws. He dies early, but can heavily reward fundamentals if you play defensively. Has a charge (shadow ball) to force approach in neutral, projectile, unique combos, reward shielding and spacing (spaced fair on shield is safe). He has a variety of tools that cover lots of situations and doesn't have that many bad matchups.
Captain Falcon - Has tools that heavily reward fundamentals, but can be very obvious about what he wants in neutral, so it requires you to get creative. Combos are plentiful and tools are flexible, however, he lacks projectiles or means of forcing an approach.
Donkey Kong - Has lots of tools and lots of potential if played fundamentally sound. Heavily rewards grabs and has setups into grab (Jab 1, Dtilt, etc.) and rewards patient play, much like Mewtwo and Diddy Kong. This is reflective of the "Ryu" all-around archetype you're looking for. Has means to force approach in neutral, offstage game is good. Doesn't have a really just bad move (down and side b can be used for shield break). However, this character is combo'd hard.
Fox - Has plentiful tools and combos that lead to lots of different situations that he can do well in, but has defined flaws (offtstage). Has diverse combos, but requires more knowledge than other characters.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

With the helpful advice of Bang! again I've narrowed down to . Now I've got some questions.
How good is ? I'm talking tier wise.
How technical is ?

 

[DietDrKelp]

Nice_FZPSC.42
Yoshi is a strong mid tier whos meta is largely undeveloped/lacks people committed to the character.
Pikachu can be as technical as you make him out to be. Technical Pikachu players seem to thrive more than very basic Pika players but overall, he is a very strong character.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Nice_FZPSC.42
Yoshi is a strong mid tier whos meta is largely undeveloped/lacks people committed to the character.
Pikachu can be as technical as you make him out to be. Technical Pikachu players seem to thrive more than very basic Pika players but overall, he is a very strong character.

I think will be a better choice for me, but thanks for the answers. I think will be the other that I can keep in mind if I want to replace one of the other two. Or I could just go with the pocket

 

[GoodGuy]

I've decided between the three characters I like the most/ and . Between these characters Im looking for the one the kind of controls the tempo of the game while being able to be defensive and offensive and switch playstyle whenever necessary. So basically I'm looking for the most adaptable of the 4. Any suggestions?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I've decided between the three characters I like the most/ and . Between these characters Im looking for the one the kind of controls the tempo of the game while being able to be defensive and offensive and switch playstyle whenever necessary. So basically I'm looking for the most adaptable of the 4. Any suggestions?

All of them can do that but I think do it better with they're excellent disjoint and power. Other than that cause his offense is scary and his super long combos are too and fluid is tricky. Offense isnt that great so I'd say he's the worst also he's just worse that the others in general.

 

[DietDrKelp]

I've decided between the three characters I like the most/ and . Between these characters Im looking for the one the kind of controls the tempo of the game while being able to be defensive and offensive and switch playstyle whenever necessary. So basically I'm looking for the most adaptable of the 4. Any suggestions?

As far as most adaptable goes, Mario is by far most adaptable, shown by Ally, one of the only solo mains at the top level. He never counterpicks and can switch between relentless offense and intricately planned defenses. Following close behind, I'd say Marcina. Because of the tools the character has, situations should never be unsolvable.

 

[Dream Cancel]

This is kind of an odd question, but what I'm looking for is a main with solid fundamentals. I was wondering if someone could recommend something.

So, story time. I've been playing smash at a sort-of competitive level since Smash 4 came out, and melee beforehand. I'm not bad at all, but I've always been unpolished and have had a hard time sticking to a main. I stopped playing a year into 4, and I'm trying to come back. But I've lost a lot, and I've been a bit directionless. I came to the conclusion that I needed to brush up on and develop my fundamentals before I can move any further as a player, and I want a character that will help me with that.

So, I want a character that is,
- Easy to moderately difficult to learn. Not something that I'd have to master before even thinking of playing another person, like .
- good or at least passable in neutral.
- good for helping teach fundamentals; spacing, timing, shielding, etc. This is the core.
- doesn't rely on gimmicks, like projectile spam or a single combo that they repeat over and over.
- Something flexible that I can take into many situations and do fairly well with.
- Something that I can stick with. Like I've said, I have trouble sticking to a main. I want something with a lowish skill floor that still rewards good play if done well.
- isn't
- Nothing with too many bad matchups.
I want the of Smash, but not actually. Simple, effective, easy to learn, and rewarding. Doesn't even have to be too good, just something with the above traits. Does such a character exist?

So, for starters, some of my recommendations are in line with Izaw's recommendations. (From his Art of Smash series)

These aren't in any order:
- - More emphasis on movement. Check out Tesla Skarfelt's channel for help and tons of Fox information/combos. Best character out of all the possible recommendations I can make, and his meta is still growing. Few bad match-ups, and good Fox play is very hard to beat. He is technical though, so labbing and regular practice is a must. I was a former Fox main myself but couldn't practice often enough, unfortunately.
- - A linear, but powerful neutral. He is fairly repetitive though, but worth trying so you can learn good spacing on shields with confirmable aerials. Another solid pick in my opinion, and not too many bad MUs.
- - (Not Marth! I'll see myself out lol)
- - Can't really stick with him but is a strictly fundamental character. Plus he's a low tier so you need to be smart to win with him.
- / - Mid tier, but really one of the most honest characters out there outside of Ike perhaps.
- - While his tournament results at the highest levels are lacking, he is still a great character. His aerial mobility is obnoxiously good and has great kill power. He has a lot going for him, plus he's a monster on WiFi lol.
- - Main thing with him is getting over the Sheik syndrome. Practicing kill setups is really important because you will have no problem racking up percent with him.
- - Dropped on the tier list but hits like a truck. I don't have much else to say outside of that.
- - Because why not? He's quite easy to play in my opinion, plus he has strong punishes on player's not playing carefully. He has relevant super armor and his kill power is stupid good.

That's all I got for now.

One thing that I recommend, regardless of character, is to do some research into their bread & butter combos. I used to think Robin was trash until I took the time to better understand the character, and now he's my main lol. Get a general idea of what their game plan is like and try it out for a while.

 

[KniteBlargh]

More of an update than anything else, but after playing Sonic as a secondary (mostly in doubles) for months and generally feeling pretty happy when playing him, it looks like I'll be dropping him and going on yet another quest for the right character. It's quite a silly situation, but my usual doubles buddy gets confused between me and our opponents, because Sonic is pretty much always blue, and for some reason the other teams insist on being the blue team. Heh... Yeah...

Anyway, preferably I'll be looking for someone with enough versatility/complexity to keep me interested, while at the same time being enough of an opposite to Jigglypuff... And of course, they'll need some colour options that won't confuse my partner.

Edit: I'm always open for some suggestions if anyone wants to have a say, but don't feel obligated.

 

[Jackguti]

So I'm currently a main, and recently I've been having trouble finding a solid secondary. Ive used for awhile but I feel like there's just better secondaries out there. Diddy seems like you have to main him. I need someone who can outrange/outcamo opponent when Luigi just can't do the job. Thanks I'm advanced!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I'm currently a main, and recently I've been having trouble finding a solid secondary. Ive used for awhile but I feel like there's just better secondaries out there. Diddy seems like you have to main him. I need someone who can outrange/outcamo opponent when Luigi just can't do the job. Thanks I'm advanced!

A good sword character or Mewtwo sounds like a good choice. I recommend mewtwo or marth

 

[Justinian]

So I'm currently a main, and recently I've been having trouble finding a solid secondary. Ive used for awhile but I feel like there's just better secondaries out there. Diddy seems like you have to main him. I need someone who can outrange/outcamo opponent when Luigi just can't do the job. Thanks I'm advanced!

Mewtwo, Cloud, Bayonetta, and even Diddy are all good options for you. None of them require a ton of work to pick up as a secondary and all do what you want in a secondary (they invalidate a large portion of the cast with just a few moves e.g, Mewtwo dtilt + fair, Diddy nana + fair, Cloud limit + nair + bair + up air, Bayonetta Wtime + Wtwist + bair). Try them out!

Also, Sheik is a good option if you're willing to dual main or put a little more work into your secondary. She's theoretically the "best" option for the niche you want, and Luigi covers her even MU's fairly well to boot.

 

[DarkAuraful]

How is progress going so far in optimizing match ups with your co-mains if I may ask The Goldenbrawler ?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I use now and feel good about it except against characters like . Also some and give me a really hard time. Should I get a secondary for them? If so who? Right now I like [/] but I'm open to more suggestions.