Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[GoodGuy]

I've been playing and I realized that the hyper defensive playstyle is not my cup of tea. Im trying to find a character with a balance between offense and defense with decent approach options. Any opinions? Sorry if I made the post really broad.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hi, I enjoy playing,

Strong in my local meta is among others.

I am focusing on maining Pikachu, but I'm not sure which of the others I should focus on keeping a strong secondary. I know ROB and Oli are the other two overall strongest in that list, but I don't know if they cover my local meta OR the national meta well. I am willing to look at any character to try messing with. Is there a character I should be looking at trying given my local meta and any national meta problems I have given the characters I like to play?

Fellow main here. The only characters in that local list he looses to are so I'd suggest . Other than him is your second best bet. Isn't bad but he'll struggle with so unless you can handle him go with oli or falco instead.

G GoodGuy you're looking for all rounders so I'd go with
. Can also be played aggressively so you could keep him. I for one play him aggressively and do well.

 

[Justinian]

Hi, I enjoy playing,

Strong in my local meta is among others.

I am focusing on maining Pikachu, but I'm not sure which of the others I should focus on keeping a strong secondary. I know ROB and Oli are the other two overall strongest in that list, but I don't know if they cover my local meta OR the national meta well. I am willing to look at any character to try messing with. Is there a character I should be looking at trying given my local meta and any national meta problems I have given the characters I like to play?

If you're maining Pikachu, the best secondary you can get is Cloud, who covers all your local mouse's weaknesses. The only of your other characters you listed that I have experience with is Falco, and I personally wouldn't recommend him vs Mario and Ness, who are your main concerns along with arguably Fox and Mewtwo.

I've been playing and I realized that the hyper defensive playstyle is not my cup of tea. Im trying to find a character with a balance between offense and defense with decent approach options. Any opinions? Sorry if I made the post really broad.

Cloud, Sheik, Diddy and Mewtwo are options all you should look into!

 

[Derpnaster]

Hi, I enjoy playing,

Strong in my local meta is among others.

I am focusing on maining Pikachu, but I'm not sure which of the others I should focus on keeping a strong secondary. I know ROB and Oli are the other two overall strongest in that list, but I don't know if they cover my local meta OR the national meta well. I am willing to look at any character to try messing with. Is there a character I should be looking at trying given my local meta and any national meta problems I have given the characters I like to play?

Let's get a few things straight before I give advice on this one.
1) Everything I say is my opinion based upon what I currently know, subject to change
2) F*** the Meta, Smash 4 is so well done that honestly every character is a threat and you don't have to limit yourself to a hard and fast set of characters in order to win.
3) Despite the above statement I do acknowledge that character matchups do exist and you have to make the choice of dealing with them using one character or branching out. That is up to you.

That said lets get on the meat of this post.
If you only care about who beats who, Mario is your best bet, since Smash 4 is a game where your character weaknesses will factor in more than strengths Mario having no weaknesses and an answer for everything in his toolset means he can take on any character with at least a decent chance of victory. That said Mario depends highly on player skill as he does not carry the player in any way, unlike Cloud who is the easy bake top tier.

If you care about who is easy to drop in go Cloud as like I said, he's the easy bake top tier, literally everyone has the ability to pocket Cloud and win.

If you are of the mindset of doing your research and labbing out your matchups then I suggest you go through character by character and determine of those you enjoy playing which ones do you have an easier time working around the matchups.

Using myself as an example I dual main Link and Greninja, and I pocket officially Sheik and sometimes Ike. Link covers most of the cast, in fact he covers all of them, but against certain players, not characters, I will switch out to Greninja who has a wildly different approach to the game. If I feel neither Link of Greninja is a good option I can swap out even farther to my pockets or sometimes I'll just pull a character from out of nowhere and see what works. IN my case it's based upon the player against player matchup not necessarily characters, as I have said I am currently 2-0-0 over every Cloud I have fought and I did it all with Link.

Tl,Dr
If you don't feel like throwing in a lot of lab time Mario or Cloud as options, if you do feel like Lab time and you get a kick out of trying things out, dude pick what you want, there is no wrong answer in the context of smash 4.

 

[Arc Quilava]

I'm having a bit of trouble, as I've been playing Smash 4 for quite a long time now, but it still seems like I can never settle on one character. It's honestly got me a little frustrated. I am familiar with quite a few characters by now, I just have a hard time sticking to one. My biggest problem is that I can never tell if it's my own fault for losing/winning matches or if it has more to do with my (in)compatibility with a character. So really I would just like some general advice for deciding how to choose a main, if possible. I would greatly appreciate it, thank you!

 

[Hadou]

That's kinda funny that the above poster said that, because that's exactly what I'm feeling now. I have yet to truly find a main, I'm comfortable with a few characters, and certain ones I guess I switch out for whoever I'm playing against. But the weird part is that I don't even heavily think about match ups.

I play with Diddy, Marth, and Fox, and I know already that the amount of time I play with them is in that exact order. However, I have problems with each of them. I think I could chalk this up to predictablility.

With Diddy, I'm super offensive, but I tend to auto pilot with him a lot. It's kinda hard not to for me, as most of his options have advantages and just...end up working out -- like Monkey Flip, for example. I know I need to improve on Banana setups and really locking in combos for kill confirms. Like, I can get a good peel to smash in, but I want to get those consistently, and know what can go into what. My movement with this dude is also super jank. I feel like I can't move around without a Monkey Flip thrown in, it's hard to resist throwing them out. I know good players will definitely bait and punish it. Also his recovery, it's not straight garbage but I have problems with it sometimes.

Marth, it's really weird, as I'm not offensive with him, but again, predictability becomes a problem. I crave getting tippers, it's like crack. Forward smashes whenever I see an opening. And my biggest problem with him is that I have trouble snapping ledges (I think it should be start low angled, then Dolphin Slash). Above all, sometimes when I play as him, I don't have fun. It's not horrible, but it really isn't as fun as playing with Diddy and I've noticed it and said it aloud myself. But I love his elegance, and I'm also a huge FE fan.

Fox is another weird one. I have no problems with him tbh, aside from I think I mayyyy become too predictable with him, though not as much as the others. I want to focus more on movement with him. I find that when I'm playing with friends I worry less about predictability and all that (like up smashes everywhere-- I know I'm gonna do it, so does everyone else, it's like THE killing move for me). In a serious 1v1 though (still with a friend most likely, only we're super competitive) I rarely pick this guy. And when I do the results are either super good or mediocre. Fox's recovery is stupid good to me, I actually have fun with him, gimping with shines and just having such great movement. I love his combos. The fast fall ones are great, I just need to get some stuff into up smash.

-TL;DR- I can't pick a main, I love all of these guys for different reasons. Although I pick Fox the least out of Diddy, Marth, and Fox (in that order), I think he might be the most comfortable to me. However, I choose Diddy as my "alright time to body you" character. I have issues with all three though, and I might not be a good player in general, as most of these problems are predictability issues...

 

[Derpnaster]

Just use all three and go nuts.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Update on me (for those who care)
I had as a pocket but haven't had as good of a time with him being my pocket for . So I've decided to go a more counterpick route and go with and [/] as my pockets due to fun factor she results I've been having.

 

[Ralugi]

I've been playing , and I enjoy the style, but I don't really know what sort of playstyle suits him. I play defensively, but aggression isn’t out of the question.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I've been playing , and I enjoy the style, but I don't really know what sort of playstyle suits him. I play defensively, but aggression isn’t out of the question.

He's more on the defensive side as far as I know.

 

[Derpnaster]

I've been playing , and I enjoy the style, but I don't really know what sort of playstyle suits him. I play defensively, but aggression isn’t out of the question.

I would take a different approach altogether, instead of looking strictly at some overarching illusion of playstyle, try to play the game on a more tactical level, look at what your character can do, find areas where you can push and areas where you have to pull it back, try to see if you can use your tools to induce a reaction from your opponent, keep that up until you find an approach that flows for you, not this doesn't mean you find an autopilot way to play, but you find a general way of playing the character than let's you the player respond the best to changes in the battle as the match progresses, for most people this is surprisingly defensive, but with enough aggression to push advantage when the neutral ends in their favor. But in reality it is entirely dependent on you and how you develop as a player.

 

[Ralugi]

I would take a different approach altogether, instead of looking strictly at some overarching illusion of playstyle, try to play the game on a more tactical level, look at what your character can do, find areas where you can push and areas where you have to pull it back, try to see if you can use your tools to induce a reaction from your opponent, keep that up until you find an approach that flows for you, not this doesn't mean you find an autopilot way to play, but you find a general way of playing the character than let's you the player respond the best to changes in the battle as the match progresses, for most people this is surprisingly defensive, but with enough aggression to push advantage when the neutral ends in their favor. But in reality it is entirely dependent on you and how you develop as a player.

So get in the zone, but don’t autopilot. Great.

 

[Derpnaster]

So get in the zone, but don’t autopilot. Great.

I did it twice, once with Link, that year of work led to a couple of interesting discoveries about Link's capabilities long before anyone on the internet eve started really looking at Link, that said it also started an arms race in my area which caused a lot of interesting developments, at least in regards to my local university and how we play the game.
The other time was with Greninja and that is still ongoing.

 

[DJBor]

Back at it again with another question.
My most recent local placements are much better (yes, I've started entering exhibition locals)- 9/20, 25/44, and 5/9. I'm a middle-of-the-road player in a stacked region now, which is good considering that my main interest is commentary. is very clearly my main.

But as I watch all of the other players (there's at least 4), I'm clearly not playing her right. My Bayonetta follows my personal opinion on what Bayonetta's niche should be- a character heavy on movement options with an attack extension mechanic, that relies on easy reads to finish. Many people question why I think Bayonetta is not top tier- and really, it's just my Bayo that's not top tier. So I may be dropping her.

So, now it's time.

Is it advisable to promote Shulk from pocket pick to full secondary in place of Bayonetta? I have been analyzing Shulk and found that I play him the same way I play Bayonetta, and it's just as effective yet with a character that isn't seen as top tier. Please do not request any other characters!
I will be testing out this debate further in future friendlies, but here's a good head start.

 

[Derpnaster]

Well considering I am a dual main with a single pocket and most people run things their own way, it's up to you, really that depends upon how much time you're willing to throw into Shulk or any other character, I'd say see where you are in a week or two and then really question it, until then keep up the Bayo play, try to push your own philosophy farther and evolve it into a full fledged battle plan.

 

[C0rvus]

Follow your dreams. To not would be a slight to those of us who have no dreams.

Melodrama aside, if you're having fun with it, enjoy it. Hope it works out for you!

 

[Floor]

Hey guys
I main . Ive been playing around with and wouldn't be against considering . The problem is, i get told that im spreading myself too thin. I know i can't main everyone but i feel like 4 characters isn't "too many". How many would i use and which of these would you guys recommend?

I'm counting as ONE character and dropping them is out of the question. Im looking for secondaries here or co mains, basically

 

[Justinian]

Hey guys
I main . Ive been playing around with and wouldn't be against considering . The problem is, i get told that im spreading myself too thin. I know i can't main everyone but i feel like 4 characters isn't "too many". How many would i use and which of these would you guys recommend?

I'm counting as ONE character and dropping them is out of the question. Im looking for secondaries here or co mains, basically

Personally, I feel like Marcina tend to do a good job alongside characters that have good mobility and frame data, but may have range issues (which is where the FE characters pick up the slack). So, I would suggest Mario out of the characters you mentioned. Sheik has also been proven to do well alongside Marcina, so you could also consider her.

 

[DeltaForce]

I feel like Mario would be a good secondary to have. He has decent mobility, a cape to deal with projectiles, easy to learn for competitive play, and superior frame data. Mario is a solid pick in a lot of MUs

 

[Floor]

This is interesting, but good advice. I was kinda leaning towards Sheik but and I've been playing her for about 8 months but still haven't really felt 100% comfortable with her. It might be time for me to switch and drop her for Mario...

 

[DeltaForce]

Sheik has a high skill cap and you need a lot of time and effort to invest in sheik and if you use her as a secondary you would most likely lose the ditto against a skeik main. Mario is a lot easier to learn.

 

[Niche]

Is a main really necessary for competitive play? I'm pretty sure it is by I'm asking because I haven't found a main and I've been playing this game since 3ds release

 

[Derpnaster]

No, most people choose one because it's impossible to master 58 characters let alone one

 

[Arc Quilava]

So after messing with the characters some more, I've decided that I feel the most comfortable with and play the most often Kirby and Samus. I'm considering making them my mains or one a main with the other as a secondary. However, as I said, I feel fairly comfortable with a wide range of characters. I thought that perhaps Samus's long range and disjointed hitboxes would be good coverage for Kirby's faster, but much more close quarters game. Not to mention he's much smaller. Would these two work well together or would it be more advisable to find other characters to cover each others' matchups?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Is a main really necessary for competitive play? I'm pretty sure it is by I'm asking because I haven't found a main and I've been playing this game since 3ds release

Unless you counter pick like Anti then yes. You could dual main like me.

 

[bubbyq12]

I've been playing for a long time and I feel pretty comfortable with her. She is definitely my main and I find her to be so fun, but I feel like she is finally getting the recognition she deserves (since 1.1.6 nerfs), so I think it might be time for me to pick up someone else that is underrated. So I've been thinking of picking up and as other mains (I don't play competitively yet but I'd like to eventually). Also I'm thinking of dropping . Thoughts?

 

[Derpnaster]

Corrin is not really underrated, (s)he is still considered a high tier on many lists, for whatever reason or another, but can be fun to play. Same for Lucas, I seriously have no idea why Lucas is considered upper mid to high tier in most lists but eh take it as you will.

Some truly underrated characters are those like Lucina, Kirby, King DeDeDe, the Miis,Just characters you don't sse a lot or are given poor ratings because they aren't really explored often.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I've decided to co main with . Now atm I've still got as my 3rd but I'm wondering if would be a better pick over pika. Thoughts?

 

[Derpnaster]

So I've decided to co main with . Now atm I've still got as my 3rd but I'm wondering if would be a better pick over pika. Thoughts?

It really depends on how you like to fight, both have radically different options, the Rat has more options geared toward fast linear movement and quick moderate damage over time while Toon Link has a more balanced mobility but suffers because he is floaty so he get's shredded by characters that easily deal with floaty characters.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

It really depends on how you like to fight, both have radically different options, the Rat has more options geared toward fast linear movement and quick moderate damage over time while Toon Link has a more balanced mobility but suffers because he is floaty so he get's shredded by characters that easily deal with floaty characters.

I'm more aggressive but matchup wise who would be best?

 

[Derpnaster]

I'm more aggressive but matchup wise who would be best?

Toon Link will likely have a more even matchup spread than the Rat, though that's not really certifiable at least from my point because I play Link, who has one of those weird spreads where he either goes even with a character, or loses with a few exceptions where he destroys a character, actually found out that Link is one of the few, if not the only low tier (By internet listing mind you) that either goes even with or beats Cloud. But enough tangent.
Really you should test that for yourself instead of trusting some dude on the internet. I honestly only have my experiance to go off of and no one really cares about one dude's experience, doubly so if it goes against the popular opinion.

TL,DR: I'm not really sure, matchups though they matter are still new enough that it requires more exploring than the internet community cares to give so you're kinda on your own there.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Toon Link will likely have a more even matchup spread than the Rat, though that's not really certifiable at least from my point because I play Link, who has one of those weird spreads where he either goes even with a character, or loses with a few exceptions where he destroys a character, actually found out that Link is one of the few, if not the only low tier (By internet listing mind you) that either goes even with or beats Cloud. But enough tangent.
Really you should test that for yourself instead of trusting some dude on the internet. I honestly only have my experiance to go off of and no one really cares about one dude's experience, doubly so if it goes against the popular opinion.

TL,DR: I'm not really sure, matchups though they matter are still new enough that it requires more exploring than the internet community cares to give so you're kinda on your own there.

I'll stick with pika but tl is there to replace him invade I need to

 

[Derpnaster]

I'd say good call.
Have fun and play hard.

 

[DeltaForce]

So I've decided to co main with . Now atm I've still got as my 3rd but I'm wondering if would be a better pick over pika. Thoughts?

I hear over and over again Pika is very hard to play, if you are already co maining Marcina and Roy it will be difficult to use pika as a secondary and use him effectively as a secondary, the only player I have seen use Pika as a secondary is NAKAT and he only has Ness as his main He doesn't co main as far as I know. Also Marcina and Roy are not hard Matchups for Pikachu and if you ever encounter a Pikachu main (I would go Lucina since tipper may not be very helpful because of Pika's mobility)you would lose the ditto (unless he was complete trash to lose the ditto of his main vs you secondary) and you could possibly have no effective way to fight the adorable mouse with your mains (100% bias I am a Pika main myself . Also Toon link is a good mixup with styles projectiles and some spacing vs spacing and some pressuring. (Pika mixes up styles as well but I feel like it is harder to learn) but in competitive I rarely every see one (except for Hyuga). I would merely recommend TL but if you are not that serious about competitive play go Pika because nothing is more embarrassing that getting your butt wiped across the floor by a cute little mouse in a party hat. Happy Smashing!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I hear over and over again Pika is very hard to play, if you are already co maining Marcina and Roy it will be difficult to use pika as a secondary and use him effectively as a secondary, the only player I have seen use Pika as a secondary is NAKAT and he only has Ness as his main He doesn't co main as far as I know. Also Marcina and Roy are not hard Matchups for Pikachu and if you ever encounter a Pikachu main (I would go Lucina since tipper may not be very helpful because of Pika's mobility)you would lose the ditto (unless he was complete trash to lose the ditto of his main vs you secondary) and you could possibly have no effective way to fight the adorable mouse with your mains (100% bias I am a Pika main myself . Also Toon link is a good mixup with styles projectiles and some spacing vs spacing and some pressuring. (Pika mixes up styles as well but I feel like it is harder to learn) but in competitive I rarely every see one (except for Hyuga). I would merely recommend TL but if you are not that serious about competitive play go Pika because nothing is more embarrassing that getting your butt wiped across the floor by a cute little mouse in a party hat. Happy Smashing!

I'm starting to loose the spark I had with (get it, spark). So I might very well switch and replace him with.

Ok I'm switching

 

[DeltaForce]

Good Luck man and quick tip if you make an obvious pun, don't say (get it) if they don't get the pun I would mark them as complete trash at life

 

[TheFacelessOne]

Hi there. I don't play smash that much anymore (uni, other hobbies) but I am always looking to pick up smash 4 again.
I always had a character crisis but think I'm settling into maining with and as secondaries (more so ) and planning to focus on exclusively those 3. I know old villy and mega m are hard to learn so if I started investing in playing smash 4 again would I be spreading myself too thin?

Also, this is my first post on the boards so nice to meet y'all.

 

[Derpnaster]

Three characters out of 58 is about average.
In my case I'm somewhere around five to eight different characters, three of which I actively use in competitive play and those three are fairly hard to both learn and use.
Really you could go with any number of characters but keep in mind that your foundation is key. If you don't have good fundamental skillsets in smash then you have to rely much more on your character than your own skills. For some, i.e. Cloud, it's OK at first, for others, you're going to suck and suck bad. Deal with that and you only have character specifics to work with.

 

[DeltaForce]

Hi there. I don't play smash that much anymore (uni, other hobbies) but I am always looking to pick up smash 4 again.
I always had a character crisis but think I'm settling into maining with and as secondaries (more so ) and planning to focus on exclusively those 3. I know old villy and mega m are hard to learn so if I started investing in playing smash 4 again would I be spreading myself too thin?

Also, this is my first post on the boards so nice to meet y'all.

I don't think that you are spreading yourself to thin character wise 3 characters is normal, the opposite is true with playstyle. All of your characters play heavy projectile game. Say you run into a fox main around your skill level, that fox already has an advantage over 2 of your characters (TL I am not 100% sure but I think he is in the same boat.) I would say to get rid of megaman and swap for someone that can deal with characters Villager and TL cannot deal with. I am speaking from more of a competetive standpoint, if you plan to just play casual then you can do what you want.

 

[TM Kind]

Hello,

I main , , and .

My local meta strong is , , and players.

I feel like I am often struggling against these heavier characters and end up leaning on Dedede as a pick because of it when I would rather not play someone who is so easy to send flying.

Should I just stick it out against these fatties and work on out classing them in other ways or is there perhaps a nice middleweight that I can try?

I should note that we play FFA 3 or 4 player about half the time, but always tournament format for levels, no items, etc.