Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[Wolfy125312]

I've been playing for about a year and honestly haven't seen much improvement in tournament standing. The only things I've seen improve is general movement and spacing. I wanted to switch mains and see how things go. So far the ones I have the most fun with are , ,,.
I really just want a character who is slightly faster than with good options and combos but still remains medium to heavy. Any suggestions?

 

[Ysor]

Cloud maybe, I've played Ike and I like him like but if you want speed and weight that's where i'd go.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I've been playing for about a year and honestly haven't seen much improvement in tournament standing. The only things I've seen improve is general movement and spacing. I wanted to switch mains and see how things go. So far the ones I have the most fun with are , ,,.
I really just want a character who is slightly faster than with good options and combos but still remains medium to heavy. Any suggestions?

Try or since they're very different. While using them you may discover what you miss about Ike.

 

[Wolfy125312]

Try or since they're very different. While using them you may discover what you miss about Ike.

I've been playing around a lot with and really love her up air combos and how her moves and movement feel in general. The only true thing I miss about Ike is the general power behind smash attacks.

 

[C0rvus]

Do you guys ever just get like, discontent with your main? I've been basically solo Corrin for the past couple months and I've gotten better, seen improvements, I feel like the character flows and I understand them. But I have an overwhelming urge to play other characters. This always happens to me. Most other times it's accompanied by realizations that I have little aptitude for the character (like Meta Knight) or I don't find them fun anymore. This time... I don't get it.

I'll either take a break and play some other characters or I can try and force myself to keep going. This seems to be a continual problem, so the latter would be breaking the habit. Been having fun trying to get better at Greninja and Lucas, though.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Do you guys ever just get like, discontent with your main? I've been basically solo Corrin for the past couple months and I've gotten better, seen improvements, I feel like the character flows and I understand them. But I have an overwhelming urge to play other characters. This always happens to me. Most other times it's accompanied by realizations that I have little aptitude for the character (like Meta Knight) or I don't find them fun anymore. This time... I don't get it.

I'll either take a break and play some other characters or I can try and force myself to keep going. This seems to be a continual problem, so the latter would be breaking the habit. Been having fun trying to get better at Greninja and Lucas, though.

I'm sensing more of a burn out from the game in general. Sometimes I feel like I don't want to play my mains anymore, but in reality, I just need a break from the game, maybe a week or two. The longest I went was about a month, and by the time that month ended, I had a lot more free time to play the game.

If that's not the case, I feel like it's because you're a solo main. Now, solo mains do have the advantage of learning a character much faster than someone who plays other characters, but it also leads to being limited with what options you have. Personally, I like having 2 mains (not secondaries) because it gives me more options in different situations and I have more knowledge of individual characters. I'd recommend you stay Corrin if you like him that much, and find a good partner to have with him, whether it'd be for bad match ups or for more options. It's why despite can be a solid solo option, I still like to use for some match ups Megs struggles at such as Fox, Mario, and vice versa.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Update: considering [/]

 

[vertime]

Do you guys ever just get like, discontent with your main? I've been basically solo Corrin for the past couple months and I've gotten better, seen improvements, I feel like the character flows and I understand them. But I have an overwhelming urge to play other characters. This always happens to me. Most other times it's accompanied by realizations that I have little aptitude for the character (like Meta Knight) or I don't find them fun anymore. This time... I don't get it.

I'll either take a break and play some other characters or I can try and force myself to keep going. This seems to be a continual problem, so the latter would be breaking the habit. Been having fun trying to get better at Greninja and Lucas, though.

Yeah I get a similar thing but I normally get it when hits that used to be satisfying suddenly become pretty average. I've stuck with Lucas fairly well but sometimes I just want to play someone else. It's a good idea to start to learn another character, something different from what you're used to. Obviously keep Corrin as a main, if you want, but having another character in your back pocket is fine too. After all, it is a game, play it how you want.

 

[C0rvus]

I definitely agree that it may be burnout, or just indicative of the fact that I've been thinking too hard about this game. A common habit. I ought to be focusing elsewhere at the moment anyway, so I'll try my best to chill out in regards to Smash for a while. Definitely going to be adding another character or so to the mix, I think that will help in more ways than one.

Throwing Corrin away would be foolish, after I've come so far with him.

 

[DJBor]

How do you think fares as a substitute for ? I can't witch time just yet, but my approach game is incredible and my Bullet Arts placement is really good. I even have decent results with her! Well... all my matches with her are 2-1 losses so far, but they're always kept close!
The other question is if she matches well with . I'm now a solo main, who's no longer losing everything, and the only trouble that remains is matchup coverage. I may even bring into singles since she's being seen in a better light recently. So help me out one last time- who's the best singles secondary for , out of ?

 

[bubbyq12]

How do you think fares as a substitute for ? I can't witch time just yet, but my approach game is incredible and my Bullet Arts placement is really good. I even have decent results with her! Well... all my matches with her are 2-1 losses so far, but they're always kept close!
The other question is if she matches well with . I'm now a solo main, who's no longer losing everything, and the only trouble that remains is matchup coverage. I may even bring into singles since she's being seen in a better light recently. So help me out one last time- who's the best singles secondary for , out of ?

I'm not the most knowledgable on match ups and stuff like that but I can tell you that I co main and and they seem to work very well together, so a Bayo secondary seems good for Villy.

 

[vertime]

So, recently, I've been getting a little disinterested in playing Smash as a whole; all of the characters I play are just unsatisfying with the exception of Lucas and I don't like to play a single character all the time. I want to start playing a new character, a defensive character but the characters I'm getting recommended to play are either infuriating or, once again, unsatisfying.

I've gained slight interest in Toon Link but not enough to play him a lot. What do you guys think are some good defensive-based characters that I could play?

 

[DJBor]

Try or - good teammates for that have a good defensive game. is a universally good pick, in case those two don't work.

 

[Y2Kay]

So, recently, I've been getting a little disinterested in playing Smash as a whole; all of the characters I play are just unsatisfying with the exception of Lucas and I don't like to play a single character all the time. I want to start playing a new character, a defensive character but the characters I'm getting recommended to play are either infuriating or, once again, unsatisfying.

I've gained slight interest in Toon Link but not enough to play him a lot. What do you guys think are some good defensive-based characters that I could play?

Try

 

[vertime]

Try

A L W A Y S T R Y M E W T W O

Also, took a shot at Villager and Marth. Crappy with both. Toon Link, once again I have some interest in but I can not bring myself to really try to improve. The game is just so different from the other smash games, the focus is on defensive play but I'm used to overwhelming aggression. It's just ruining me.

 

[DJBor]

Oh, you want an aggressive character then?

SAVING SPACE: A couple of Middle-to-Heavy-weight aggressors are:

 

[Wolfy125312]

To piggyback off of the aggressive character discussion. Are there any medium to heavyweight aggression characters?

 

[Kamdy]

After experimenting for a while I found that I have a passive aggressive playstye. Basically what I mean is that I like to wait for openings and then strike. I feel more comfortable with the lighter characters but that is just me. But tbh my playstyle is quite volatile and changes a lot. So a character that can do that and do other playstyles would be nice. I prefer fast and or average dashing speeds. I feel a bit better with tether grabs but that's optional and so is a kill throw. I would also prefer a good recovery. It doesn't have to be as bad as or as good as . Thank you.

 

[adz]

After experimenting for a while I found that I have a passive aggressive playstye. Basically what I mean is that I like to wait for openings and then strike. I feel more comfortable with the lighter characters but that is just me. But tbh my playstyle is quite volatile and changes a lot. So a character that can do that and do other playstyles would be nice. I prefer fast and or average dashing speeds. I feel a bit better with tether grabs but that's optional and so is a kill throw. I would also prefer a good recovery. It doesn't have to be as bad as or as good as . Thank you.

It sounds like ZSS is the perfect character for you, as she ticks off many of your wants.

-Passive-aggresive playstyle: ZSS can be played very well this way, as her many defensive options, quick speed, and fantastic punish game suit her well to your style of play.
-Lighter character: this doesn't really need to be explained.
-Volatile playstyle as well: Not only can ZSS be played very passively, but she also can capitalize on the opponent's disadvantaged states very well, making her playstyle seem like a river: calm and smooth one moment, and fast and aggressive the next.
-Fast or average dashing speed: This does not need to be explained either.
-Tether grab: Ditto.
-Good recovery: ZSS' recovery is extremely versatile and capable of possesing many options to get back on stage. Not only is up-b on option, but flip kick, side-b, and her zair can all be used to get to ledge, or on stage .

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey guys I'm back! Hooray. Any way I'm still set with but still looking for a pocket for them. So far I've narrowed down to [/]. I loose to and struggle against . Any suggestions? Who should I not go with?

 

[vertime]

So uh
I main Ganon now. I don't know what happened.

 

[DJBor]

@Nice Your best choice matchup wise is , good luck handling TEH PH1RE
The worst fit is
vertime You'll want a secondary. One with better movement and safer neutral. How 'bout you try or just #ALWAYSTRYMEWTWO?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

@Nice Your best choice matchup wise is , good luck handling TEH PH1RE
vertime You'll want a secondary. One with better movement and safer neutral. How 'bout you try or just #ALWAYSTRYMEWTWO?

Who is the worst of them?

 

[vertime]

vertime You'll want a secondary. One with better movement and safer neutral. How 'bout you try or just #ALWAYSTRYMEWTWO?

Got a little experience with Falcon already actually. Took your advice, went back to him. I gotta sort out my muscle memory so I can confidently and consistently hit the DThrow to Nair, Fair or Uair and I think I'll be golden.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Been revently having lots of success with projectile characters like and again. It's weird how some characters randomly click some days. Still considering pocket for . I've heard good stuff for but still want more insight.
I'm considering .

 

[DJBor]

"It's weird how some characters randomly click some days."
Like my Greninja? Some days it works, most it doesn't. But when it does... then he's my best character.
I picked for consistency (and someone in my balanced group) and recently for matchups and THE STYLE

Recently joined a Smash local with a doubles partner who plays , hoping for success!

 

[Corny Cows]

I'm new to competitive smash and I've been having fun playing Marth as a floaty aerial character. Is the best way to play him and if not what are good characters to play like that.

 

[C0rvus]

I'm new to competitive smash and I've been having fun playing Marth as a floaty aerial character. Is the best way to play him and if not what are good characters to play like that.

Marth definitely has good aerials that can be safely spaced, but his air acceleration iirc is mediocre so if he jumps in a direction he's more or less committed to landing in one general area, if that makes sense. I would say keep going with Marth, but definitely look into using his ground moves more, they are very good.

"Floaty aerial characters" made me think of Peach and her float ability, which makes her very aerially focused. It also made me think of Corrin, who has very strong short hop pressure and excellent spacing aerials. His ground moves aren't as strong as Marth, so he relies more on being in the air, I think.

 

[Corny Cows]

Marth definitely has good aerials that can be safely spaced, but his air acceleration iirc is mediocre so if he jumps in a direction he's more or less committed to landing in one general area, if that makes sense. I would say keep going with Marth, but definitely look into using his ground moves more, they are very good.

"Floaty aerial characters" made me think of Peach and her float ability, which makes her very aerially focused. It also made me think of Corrin, who has very strong short hop pressure and excellent spacing aerials. His ground moves aren't as strong as Marth, so he relies more on being in the air, I think.

Thanks a lot. I've been trying to use Marth's ground moves more and it definitely has helped.

 

[KniteBlargh]

I am, of course, still on my never-ending quest to decide on a secondary I can (1) get behind as a character, (2) has a moveset I enjoy, (3) actually fills the role of a secondary instead of being yet another "bad" character, (4) doesn't just feel like I'm playing an infinitely better Jigglypuff, (5) isn't another past main, and (6) doesn't make me feel guilty for playing them. (LOL) Something tells me meeting all of that criteria isn't possible!

Lately, I've been taking a break from searching for a secondary by just enjoying learning more about 's options and playstyle. I don't particularly like the way she's presented in this game, but the experience is interesting nonetheless.

Anyway, I thought I'd ask another question for any interested in sharing their point of view. Last time I asked about characters among the roster who have the most amount of options and variety in playstyle. This time, I'd like to ask which characters stand out to each of you as having a primarily ground-based game? Of course, once again, some are rather obvious like , but I look forward to seeing any opinions and reasoning.

 

[C0rvus]

I assume you're looking for a polar opposite to your main, then? That's a good way to do things. It can teach you a lot about the game that you might have missed playing Puff.

is mostly a grounded character in the neutral. No short hop auto cancelling aerials helps convince him to stay low, and so does his good ground mobility and dash attack/dash grab-centric whiff punishing gameplan. His combos take him to the air but until he gets his opening, he's walking, foxtrot cancelling, and baiting.

has low skid stop, so dashing around and using his limb-invincible jab and tilts is effective. Slow jumpsquat and poor landing options discourage a lot of jumping. In fact, you may dislike being airborne at all with Bowser.

benefits from playing grounded. With very bad air acceleration, jumping in a direction means you're committed to jumping in that direction. His ground moves are excellent, and his dash grab is a good burst option. Not to say jumping is bad. His back air is a pretty safe move, and FADC lets him re position mid air, but it's a commitment.

has excellent ground speed and plays a pressure/whiff punishing style with Spin Dash. His air speed is pretty average, so he prefers the ground.

 

[DJBor]

I can get behind . Of all the top 10, Ryu is the one I respect the most because he actually requires some insane skill. The big nerf I was going to hand to him was Shoryuken's huge vertical KO power... Try him out, you might be surprised.

 

[KniteBlargh]

C0rvus Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. For instance, I've spent a considerable amount of time on some of the common Puff secondaries ( and , for example), and I know I do well with them after putting in that effort... But when it comes down to it, if I'm going to be playing two characters, not just one, I really don't want one to feel like an extension of the other, but rather a separate entity. Thanks for your input; I'll consider each of the characters you mentioned.

DJBor I've kind of dismissed the idea of playing for a while now simply because I don't usually use the tough guys in games, but it might be kind of a fun clash of personalities considering my main. LOL I'm no stranger to the SF series, either, so I think I'll start with Ryu first and see how things go after some time. Thanks!

 

[Derpnaster]

If you like an aireal heavy character but is not a Jigglypuff I would suggest Greninja (My other main so a little bias here but I have reasoning don't worry)
Greninja is probably the hardest character in smash 4 to play, but he is very good at punishing split second openings or just getting through things.
His overall mobility is hands down the best in the game both ground and air and he has an amazing recovery in the form of Shadow Sneak, Hydro Pump, Shuriken stalling, and just his god tier second jump.

Also if you like grab game Greninja's grab is just hilarious to watch.

 

[vertime]

Greninja is probably the hardest character in smash 4 to play

I'm fairly sure most would say Ryu is for his insane complexity and plethora of tech but I understand Greninja isn't as easy as others, he's probably around the 5th-10th hardest to use, considering his tech also.

I've kind of dismissed the idea of playing for a while now simply because I don't usually use the tough guys in games, but it might be kind of a fun clash of personalities considering my main.

I've played a bit of Ryu myself actually, I'm currently trying to learn him. There is SO MUCH TO LEARN but honestly he is one of the cooler characters to play in my opinion; his 0 to deaths are insane if you are good enough to do them and his Nair is combo fuel. Fun character, rewarding gameplay and satisfying to play because you can visibly tell when you've improved with him.

But honestly, as a secondary? I don't know. He takes some serious dedication. Take him up if you're super confident with your puff.

 

[Derpnaster]

I'm fairly sure most would say Ryu is for his insane complexity and plethora of tech but I understand Greninja isn't as easy as others, he's probably around the 5th-10th hardest to use, considering his tech also.

Actually Greninja is not hard because of any advanced techniques. He's hard to play becasue his fundamental gameplay, that is mobility, the neutral, and his most basic combos and punishes, require a high level of precision and situational awareness. Greninja gets a lot more out of punishes than most characters, and because of his mobility and frame data he has more chances than most characters to punish even small mistakes. The flip side to that is that unless the player is on point with their core gameplay Greninja tends to leave openings that are relatively easy to exploit.
He demands a lot more observance and creative thinking than at first seems to be the case (Though this can be said for all characters it's almost mandatory for Greninja) as oftentimes the same punish will not work twice.

That's not to say that Greninja doesn't have advanced techniques, two or three of them are well known by now. he just gets more out of solid fundamental play than he does abuse of the game's engine.

 

[vertime]

Actually Greninja is not hard because of any advanced techniques. He's hard to play becasue his fundamental gameplay, that is mobility, the neutral, and his most basic combos and punishes, require a high level of precision and situational awareness. Greninja gets a lot more out of punishes than most characters, and because of his mobility and frame data he has more chances than most characters to punish even small mistakes. The flip side to that is that unless the player is on point with their core gameplay Greninja tends to leave openings that are relatively easy to exploit.
He demands a lot more observance and creative thinking than at first seems to be the case (Though this can be said for all characters it's almost mandatory for Greninja) as oftentimes the same punish will not work twice.

That's not to say that Greninja doesn't have advanced techniques, two or three of them are well known by now. he just gets more out of solid fundamental play than he does abuse of the game's engine.

Yeah, I understand your point: Greninja isn't easy. I don't think he's the hardest but, obviously, we're all different. I can't play Donkey Kong for **** and I know others think he's really basic, entry level stuff. Greninja is certainly one of the hardest but I think calling him the hardest is a bold claim. If anything, when I've played with him, the only real issue I got was the same issue I got from trying to learn Falcon: The guy is too damn quick! He's hard to control and, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's your point. However, learning to control the speed and flow of a character is much easier than learning the myriad of advance tech that comes from, what I deem to be an undoubtedly more difficult character, Ryu. I also think the same of Fox; to play both Ryu and Fox effectively, you've GOT to know how to use certain techs. Because Ryu essentially has both a strong and weak version of most attacks, you've got to know even MORE tech, which makes them a harder character to use effectively.

While I think that Greninja might be a harder character to use at a casual level, I have no doubts that if you actually want to compete in locals and tournaments and - to some extent - if you want to be a FG God for some reason, Ryu is way, way harder.

 

[Derpnaster]

ignore this l, phone hit a button.

 

[DJBor]

Greninja is interesting. I dropped Greninja over two things- accidentally inputting Shadow Sneak when trying to diagonal Hydro Pump, and being a little too fast. His basics require training, but after learning each moves' properties he becomes very fluid and feels completely in your control. I wouldn't say that's the hardest in the game, just a character that requires patience and research. If you want to get into advanced tech... yeah, that's where the going gets tough. But if you can pull it off, it's mad stylish and unbelievably effective.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Derpnaster Thanks for the suggestion. Since I already play someone from the Pokemon franchise, I'll probably consider the others first for the sake of variety, but I will keep Greninja in mind. I played a rather reaction-heavy Fox in Melee, and both the precision and punish game of Greninja kind of give me a similar feeling, so it could definitely be interesting!

vertime Yeah, I know what you mean. I've mained Jiggs since launch, but I actually make a point of not being overly confident about anything, because there's always room for improvement, and playing such a character is already dangerous enough without letting my guard down. I'll work with Ryu for a while, and if I find my Puff seems off, or I can't balance the two effectively, I'll move on. I do believe that Ryu is at least capable of multiple playstyles (I generally feel this way about most characters, but some have more options than others, of course), but time will tell. Thanks for the feedback.