Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[KniteBlargh]

I have my opinions, and I think there are some pretty obvious choices most of us would agree on (), but I'd like to see everyone else's personal thoughts on this:

Theoretically speaking, which characters out of the entire roster do you feel have the greatest amount of options and potential for variety in how they are played?

Multiple choices are welcomed, and I'd love to see some reasoning behind each as well.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I have my opinions, and I think there are some pretty obvious choices most of us would agree on (), but I'd like to see everyone else's personal thoughts on this:

Theoretically speaking, which characters out of the entire roster do you feel have the greatest amount of options and potential for variety in how they are played?

Multiple choices are welcomed, and I'd love to see some reasoning behind each as well.

 

[C0rvus]

: Every top Mega Man plays him differently. He's an effective zoner, but his ability to pressure or do footstool combos is also very much there.
: Again, each top player seems to have a different take on her neutral, and her punish game is very varied and potent. Lots of strong tools to work with.
: I've been told playing Ike is a good way to determine your play style. He keeps things pretty honest but lets you focus your energy on playing the way you naturally do, and play the opponent.
: Can adjust his style to suit the opponent. Lots of ways to mix up his approaches and retreats.
: Strong kit lets him kinda do what he wants. Same with Diddy and Sheik, really. Zoning, pressure, anti-approach, you name it, they've got it.
: Other characters I see good variety in playstyle from.

 

[Green Zelda]

Who's a good "temporary" main to learn the neutral with?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Who's a good "temporary" main to learn the neutral with?

. Someone who's an honest character.

Just out of curiousity who is the best secondary for ? His bad matchups are . Who covers all of these?

 

[C0rvus]

Only Sheik comes to mind if you really want to cover all of those. And she's a little complex to be a good secondary imo. You could try her. But realistically, you should be able to handle a bunch of those with your main (Yoshi, Zard, Pikachu, Ryu, and Cloud should be manageable but I'm no Roy main). Maybe pick out the absolute worst ones and consider a secondary for them.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Only Sheik comes to mind if you really want to cover all of those. And she's a little complex to be a good secondary imo. You could try her. But realistically, you should be able to handle a bunch of those with your main (Yoshi, Zard, Pikachu, Ryu, and Cloud should be manageable but I'm no Roy main). Maybe pick out the absolute worst ones and consider a secondary for them.

I tried sheik but not her. She's got too many 50:50s in that bunch. Any others? And don't recommend Diddy Kong or Mario they aren't good for roy

 

[C0rvus]

You realize you're asking for a character that beats a hefty chunk of strong characters all at the same time, right? My answers are pretty much going to be top tiers. Fox, Cloud, Corrin and Mewtwo all seem like decent choices, though they each have a bad one in there. Fox struggles with Cloud, Luigi, and kinda Ryu, and is even with Marth iirc. Cloud may be your best bet, but you have the ditto to deal with, and some close ones with Ryu, Diddy, Mega Man and Marth. Corrin loses to Diddy, has evens with Sonic, Marth, Cloud, etc. Mewtwo has a bad Diddy matchup and he may or may not lose to Cloud. I really don't know.

No one character is going to perfectly cover all these matchups and tickle your fancy. Wish it was that easy. Playing three characters could help, but that come with its own set of problems. Dunno what to tell you.

 

[MrFoxMan]

How do I change my main?

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

How do I change my main?

You practice whoever you're planning on switching to and I would recommend keeping your old main as a secondary or trimary as you know them.

 

[MrFoxMan]

Yeah I know but how do I on this website?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Yeah I know but how do I on this website?

Go into personal details

 

[Aetheric]

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

 

[Ralugi]

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

Prepatch

, has literally everything you want.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

. Are also good. Also I think 's back throw is a kill throw at the edge and up throw on a platform so him too.

 

[Ralugi]

comes to mind.

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

 

[Ralugi]

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

Back throw kills, is among the fastest, and recovery doubles as an approach option. Very difficult to gimp.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Back throw kills, is among the fastest, and recovery doubles as an approach option. Very difficult to gimp.

Up throw kills better than back throw. Only if you're on the edge at fd, duck hunt, or tiwn and city can back throw kill. Smash like platform of course too.

 

[C0rvus]

I want a rush down character with a kill throw, good frame data, good mobility and doesn't get gimped. That exist?

You're not going to get all of this. Rush down is a meme, it isn't a play style tbh. You can try to do it with any character. Balls-out aggression won't get you very far, though. Let's see what we can find if we compromise a little.

Has everything you want except he is quite gimpable. Kill throws are pretty decent, unlike Pikachu's (I can't say I've ever seen Pika kill with a throw unless it's a grab on the Smashville platform). Plays bait and punish well with his mobility and crazy long dash grab.

Can pressure very effectively with his incredible normals, and banana confirms. Has decent killing throws, is fast and has Monkey Flip and some other tricks to quickly move around the stage. Can be gimped but has multiple ways to recover that are pretty good.

Very strong pressure, controls the opponent with the range of needles and sheer frame data and movement. Practically ungimpable. Only thing she lacks is a kill throw, and ends stocks late in general.

He runs fast and likes to be at mid to close range. Has a flaming sword and yells a lot. Kill throw is meh, but it's there. Mediocre recovery. You may want to try him because he's fun and stuff. Idk.

Fast froggo with a decent kill throw, technical combos, good recovery, and a sick tongue scarf. A little lacking in the frame data department. His main spacing tool (fair) is frame...16? Slower than Ganon's fair anyway. He's more of a hit and run or ambush-style character, really. Might be worth a shot.

If you're asking for a rush down character, Fox might be your best bet. Very very good normals in terms of damage and frame data. You can safely pressure shields for years, but you'll need to condition your opponent or all you're going to get is grabs that don't kill, and he's also quite gimpable. But if you want a fast character that gets in people's face and puts them in the blender, Fox is your guy.

may also be worth your time, but I feel like I've gone on long enough. My biggest recommendation would be Fox, but I'm not sure where you might be willing to budge on your list of desired traits.

 

[Illusions]

I'm looking for a second main along with ZSS. I'm still relatively new to the game so it could be due to my lack of skills, but when I play using ZSS I struggle against basically anyone with a counter (especially Corrin and Bayonetta). So any character suggestions with an advantage against those would be great.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm looking for a second main along with ZSS. I'm still relatively new to the game so it could be due to my lack of skills, but when I play using ZSS I struggle against basically anyone with a counter (especially Corrin and Bayonetta). So any character suggestions with an advantage against those would be great.

Nairo (the best zss in the world) said that is the best secondary for ZSS so there you go. Other than that I'd say is a good secondary

 

[Aetheric]

I'm looking for a more sit back/patient character. I've relized I play better if I play the "slow game"

 

[TheBeggingBard ~~JoMo~~]

I'm looking for a more sit back/patient character. I've relized I play better if I play the "slow game"

Personally I would say there are no patient character. But there is bait and punish and that's where many heavyweights excel at. Bowser for example would fit that description as he can be played in a variety of different of play styles. Also I would try to play Donkey Kong or Mario as they both can be played patiently and get a lot off of grabs

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm looking for a more sit back/patient character. I've relized I play better if I play the "slow game"

So footsies? Or defensive? It sounds like footsies so I'd try

 

[Dream Cancel]

I'm looking for a more sit back/patient character. I've relized I play better if I play the "slow game"

You're going to need to still play a quick footsies game, but characters like can all just chill out and play their own game. They all thrive off of the mistakes of their opponent and have to tools to capitalize on opponents' impatience.

 

[ibDanny]

I've been getting complacent lately with my main (lucas) and have been wanting to switch for a while now. And I've narrowed it down to a few characters I like/love playing as. And it came down to . But I'm not sure how to go about deciding on which one i should stick with. Any help on narrowing it down would be great :]

 

[Jackguti]

Hey so I'm trying to find a good secondary for . I'm not completely sure what is actually MU spread is but I do know that I personally struggle with projectile reliant characters.( etc.)
Lately I've been trying out . Is that a good secondary or is there one that would be better than . Thanks!

 

[vertime]

that I personally struggle with projectile reliant characters.( etc.)

I personally picked up Lucas and Ness to deal with the projectile heavy characters (especially Mega Man's FSmash) but the three characters you listed don't have any projectiles that either can absorb, I don't think. If you're looking for a broad sort of "Stop trying to projectile me" character you might want to pick up someone who can absorb or reflect all projectiles like ,,,or.

To some extent you could even try out due to the focus dashing, it's a good way to armour through any attack. Hell, even sword characters could be of benefit with their counters. I suppose what I'm saying is, you've got options.

 

[vertime]

I've been getting complacent lately with my main (lucas) and have been wanting to switch for a while now. And I've narrowed it down to a few characters I like/love playing as. And it came down to . But I'm not sure how to go about deciding on which one i should stick with. Any help on narrowing it down would be great :]

Well out of those four, which do you like the most? Rank them in order from 1-4. Play several matches as all of them against either a bot or player that matches your ability, count the stocks that you lose and the stocks you take, order them in 1-4 by how well you performed and then simply pick the one that you like the most and played best with. Let's say the person you like the most you performed second best, pick them. Balance out what you enjoy playing with what you're good at. Remember, you are here to have fun.

Also as a fellow lucas main why would you do this to us there's few enough of us as is.

 

[Green Zelda]

You're not going to get all of this. Rush down is a meme, it isn't a play style tbh.

hella late, but this really interests me. Could you elaborate a little?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

When looking at a main find one that you like to explore too. I've been recentky trying stuff with Roys up throw and up air and have so much fun with air dodge read juggles. And thunder follow ups with Pika.

 

[Dream Cancel]

I've been getting complacent lately with my main (lucas) and have been wanting to switch for a while now. And I've narrowed it down to a few characters I like/love playing as. And it came down to . But I'm not sure how to go about deciding on which one i should stick with. Any help on narrowing it down would be great :]

Just try them out and read a bit about their common strategies and combos. Personally, I was stuck with 4 character for a while too, and there were three steps that solved this for me.

1) Who I liked playing/Who felt natural to play
2) Whose weaknesses I could manage. Seriously losing Luma all the time is really annoying for an S tier character
3) Someone I did well with.

The 4 I started out with were Robin, Rosalina, Lucina, and Fox. And through this and some time, I emerged a Robin main with a Fox secondary. I may go back to other characters if I can practice more often.

hella late, but this really interests me. Could you elaborate a little?

Rushdown is a result of bait & punish playstyles. If people leave themselves vulnerable often or they can't handle the rushing player's aggression then they get rushed down. But, as players get better, they leave fewer and fewer openings, forcing the rushing player to either lose due to their unsafe aggression, or slow down and try to evoke a punishable reaction from their opponent and win that way. (Basically Meta Knight in a nutshell)

So, rushdown is a result of one of three things imo:
1) Bait & punish/reactionary play against an overly unsafe opponent, allowing frequent openings, or
2) Intelligent aggression. Basically, match-up knowledge and kit interactions dictate how one will approach and attempt to exploit the other's moveset and properties. If someone isn't utilizing their character to the fullest or playing safe enough, then they may leave structural openings in their play which can be exploited by the better player, or
3) Exceptional adaptation. Yeah a player may be safe or the match-up is bad for you, but if you're able to outplay your opponent then you'll be able to rush them down even if the odds are against you.

This is just my opinion though.

 

[C0rvus]

hella late, but this really interests me. Could you elaborate a little?

I mostly said it out of frustration. Many players, especially newer ones, ask for rushdown characters. Most of the time without understanding what that means, just wanting to be as aggressive as possible. That doesn't really fly in the way they might be expecting. Aggression in Smash is mostly achieved through positioning and pressure exerted by zoning patterns. In other words, it's not as active as new players might want.

Play style is a funny thing that I don't fully get myself, but most characters can apply multiple "styles" and obviously excel at maybe one in particular. With the way Smash works, there are so many matchups and characters that exert themselves strongly, so you're not going to get away with just playing one way. Maybe rushdown isn't a meme, I was feeling kinda miffed when I typed that. But a lot of the time it seems to me that when you ask for it you maybe lack a little understanding of the game.

I don't want to be a jerk, though. Players of all levels come here and I want to try and help them as best I can. So, sorry about that.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm looking to replace . He's not working out. I'm thinking of to be a good pocket for . Any other suggestions? I also like .

Something to help. As I loose to and tie with/ struggle against.

 

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I'm looking to replace . He's not working out. I'm thinking of to be a good pocket for . Any other suggestions? I also like .

Something to help. As I loose to and tie with/ struggle against.

Well if you're not enjoying Toon Link then what is it about him you're not enjoying? Is it the projectile specials? Is it the move speed, the grab lag, the lack of a conventional offstage spike (Well I mean there is one but, oh my god, it's so easy to SD with) or something else? Find out what you do and don't like. I play a decent amount of Ness, along with Lucas and I haven't performed as well as I have with other characters as I have with these two. The reason I perform well with these characters is that I play using aerials mostly. Short hops, down throws into aerial combos, etc and because I knew what playstyle I enjoyed, I picked a character based on that.

Essentially, figure out your playstyle and pick a character from that. If you enjoy a defensive style (waiting for punish opportunities, spacing focus, zoning focus) etc then pick someone with range or projectiles or something like that. Maybe even a reflector. If you enjoy an offensive playstyle pick a fast character with good combos, from throws or not, or something similar, like maybe Captain Falcon for instance. If you enjoy a mixed character then someone with reasonable defensive capabilities along with decent combos might be for you like Ness.

To more directly answer your question, my opinions on the characters you consider are as follows (of course these are my opinions others may disagree, I'm not the oracle, sadly):
: A balanced character. Has strong combo game in aerials and has pretty solid kill moves along with an absorb and a defensive sideB (PK Fire)
: I've limited experience with him but he does seem to be fairly balanced with slight lean into defensive but a fairly open playstyle. I play him as a punish character, using grabs to lead into combos and normally killing with down throw > UpB but I've seen others never even use the UpB for anything other than recovery and still win easily.
: Once again, limited experience but personally he seems defensive with slight lean on balance, a projectile to force an approach and decent hitboxes and speed but a little too much end lag for me to say he's an offensive character. Hard to gimp, however, so there's that.
: Lucario, in my opinion is dynamic. Playing him offensive is fine, he gets more knockback as he gets injured and before you know it you've KO'd a DK on 100 with a simple down throw > UAir. Playing him defensive is fine too, though I think less effective. Yeah, sure he's got a projectile and a counter (and a strong one at that) but I really think he's more suited to a near psycho level of aggression just because of the Aura trait and his strong recovery game.
: The power-packing sword fighter. Corrin just decimates the aggressors with punishes and defence while maintaining a decent offensive game. I personally play him/her offensively due to the amazing aerial knockback but I have seen others use punishes to lead into strong combos and easy kills often.
: C-C-C-C-C-COMBO. Bayonetta has always been a combo monster. I really don't think there's much else to her. In my opinon, offensive or bust with this gun-wielding gal.
: Heavy hitter, defensive player. I feel DK is amazing with punishing. He's got the Ding Dong as some people call it (FThrow > Jump > UThrow > Uair) which obviously starts with a throw, easy to get from punishes. The charged punch, also a great punishing tool and his spike game is bloody insane. I think he has at least 6 or 7 spikes. Bit of a **** recovery though.
: SPINDASH? SPINDASH. YOU'RE TOO SLOW. Sonic is a brilliant offensive character with the amount of combos he can get off his spin dash and his ability to chase Up throws with his UpB for easy below 100% kills on certain, low blastzone stages. He's just a strong offensive character.


Of course, characters can be played differently. As I said, I'm not the oracle, there may well be bayonettas that are 100% defensive gameplay out there, I don't know. If you play a character and enjoy them, doesn't really matter how you play. It all gets better in time.

Hope that helped.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Well if you're not enjoying Toon Link then what is it about him you're not enjoying? Is it the projectile specials? Is it the move speed, the grab lag, the lack of a conventional offstage spike (Well I mean there is one but, oh my god, it's so easy to SD with) or something else? Find out what you do and don't like. I play a decent amount of Ness, along with Lucas and I haven't performed as well as I have with other characters as I have with these two. The reason I perform well with these characters is that I play using aerials mostly. Short hops, down throws into aerial combos, etc and because I knew what playstyle I enjoyed, I picked a character based on that.

Essentially, figure out your playstyle and pick a character from that. If you enjoy a defensive style (waiting for punish opportunities, spacing focus, zoning focus) etc then pick someone with range or projectiles or something like that. Maybe even a reflector. If you enjoy an offensive playstyle pick a fast character with good combos, from throws or not, or something similar, like maybe Captain Falcon for instance. If you enjoy a mixed character then someone with reasonable defensive capabilities along with decent combos might be for you like Ness.

To more directly answer your question, my opinions on the characters you consider are as follows (of course these are my opinions others may disagree, I'm not the oracle, sadly):
: A balanced character. Has strong combo game in aerials and has pretty solid kill moves along with an absorb and a defensive sideB (PK Fire)
: I've limited experience with him but he does seem to be fairly balanced with slight lean into defensive but a fairly open playstyle. I play him as a punish character, using grabs to lead into combos and normally killing with down throw > UpB but I've seen others never even use the UpB for anything other than recovery and still win easily.
: Once again, limited experience but personally he seems defensive with slight lean on balance, a projectile to force an approach and decent hitboxes and speed but a little too much end lag for me to say he's an offensive character. Hard to gimp, however, so there's that.
: Lucario, in my opinion is dynamic. Playing him offensive is fine, he gets more knockback as he gets injured and before you know it you've KO'd a DK on 100 with a simple down throw > UAir. Playing him defensive is fine too, though I think less effective. Yeah, sure he's got a projectile and a counter (and a strong one at that) but I really think he's more suited to a near psycho level of aggression just because of the Aura trait and his strong recovery game.
: The power-packing sword fighter. Corrin just decimates the aggressors with punishes and defence while maintaining a decent offensive game. I personally play him/her offensively due to the amazing aerial knockback but I have seen others use punishes to lead into strong combos and easy kills often.
: C-C-C-C-C-COMBO. Bayonetta has always been a combo monster. I really don't think there's much else to her. In my opinon, offensive or bust with this gun-wielding gal.
: Heavy hitter, defensive player. I feel DK is amazing with punishing. He's got the Ding Dong as some people call it (FThrow > Jump > UThrow > Uair) which obviously starts with a throw, easy to get from punishes. The charged punch, also a great punishing tool and his spike game is bloody insane. I think he has at least 6 or 7 spikes. Bit of a **** recovery though.
: SPINDASH? SPINDASH. YOU'RE TOO SLOW. Sonic is a brilliant offensive character with the amount of combos he can get off his spin dash and his ability to chase Up throws with his UpB for easy below 100% kills on certain, low blastzone stages. He's just a strong offensive character.


Of course, characters can be played differently. As I said, I'm not the oracle, there may well be bayonettas that are 100% defensive gameplay out there, I don't know. If you play a character and enjoy them, doesn't really matter how you play. It all gets better in time.

Hope that helped.

So I'm not using due to the fact that he's just not a good pocket for me and looses to similar matchups as do. Also I know why I like each character and their style as well as mine (aggressive) I'm just wondering which of the characters I've listed does best against the ones I struggle with. Again I struggle with And I'm considering

 

[vertime]

So I'm not using due to the fact that he's just not a good pocket for me and looses to similar matchups as do. Also I know why I like each character and their style as well as mine (aggressive) I'm just wondering which of the characters I've listed does best against the ones I struggle with. Again I struggle with And I'm considering

Take a look at a MU chart.
From that, Bayonetta looks like a good bet. If you enjoy Bayonetta, then play Bayonetta. Just be ready to lose some games while you learn her many, many combos.
(Got to be honest, not a big fan of telling people who to play so if you play Bayo and it's not working out try someone else.)

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Take a look at a MU chart.
From that, Bayonetta looks like a good bet. If you enjoy Bayonetta, then play Bayonetta. Just be ready to lose some games while you learn her many, many combos.
(Got to be honest, not a big fan of telling people who to play so if you play Bayo and it's not working out try someone else.)

That my chart is out dated and not very accurate. And not bayo actually she doesn't do very well against any of those characters

Update: only considering for pocket.

 

[AJb1205]

This is for my sister and not me. She is new(ish) to sm4sh and wants to be slightly competitive. She knows the basics of the game like shielding and grabs n stuff but she doesn't have a main character to learn and play well. She currently likes:
Playstyle:
-Likes to be aggressive
-Likes mid range speed
-Likes the heavier characters, not exactly light weights but not the heaviest characters either
-Not hard to learn/pick up
-Decent amount of kill options
-Not hugely combo reliant

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

This is for my sister and not me. She is new(ish) to sm4sh and wants to be slightly competitive. She knows the basics of the game like shielding and grabs n stuff but she doesn't have a main character to learn and play well. She currently likes:
Playstyle:
-Likes to be aggressive
-Likes mid range speed
-Likes the heavier characters, not exactly light weights but not the heaviest characters either
-Not hard to learn/pick up
-Decent amount of kill options
-Not hugely combo reliant

Sounds good for her then. 2nd best would be . Other than that I'd say since he's great for beginners or are also good choices