The Luigi Match-Up Discussion [12TH ROTATION: King D3] Updated 8/10/08 FINALLY!

[VEC]

Well, there are 3 more 10/10 edit it now.

 

[VEC]

Yea 9/10 seems A LOT MORE RESONABLE.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

after re-calculations, the rating comes to 9/10. (more accurately 8.5 out of 10, but I rounded it up)

Update (12:08 AM 6/12/08): Begin Falco discussion.

 

[Locuan]

Well, I have decided to add my perspective on the Game and Watch matchup when using Luigi, since one of the members of my crew mains him so I think I might provide a slightly different view.

Overall match up: 7/10

Well as many have pointed out a more defensive game while playing Luigi is better because he can bucket your fireballs etc. As it already has been pointed out G&W's aerials can hurt Luigi badly so avoid those. My normal play against a G&W is always a grounded game, I avoid being in the air for long and as G&W's attacks have a lot of lag punishing should not be hard. If you get launched in the air by one of his attacks just remember not to be under him, (this will hurt bad, and try a Nair for old times sake, it works on many occasions. The tornado approach is always good but I prefer letting the G&W come towards me, usually mindgaming him/her into thinking I will approach so they make their move to attack, giving me the chance to step back, dodge behind them and punish after their attack.

My Falco perspective:

Overall match up: 8.5/10

Quoted from the Green Machine, Luigi Strategy Guide

Falco is one of the characters that has a reflector/can reflect your Fireballs so remember only to use fireballs when your opponent least expects it. Falco also has his blaster, which dodging should do the trick to get in close to him. Bairs, Nairs and Uairs eat blue birds for breakfast. First, Bair your way in, when Falco is in the air use your Nair and Uair's when the situation presents itself. Try to shield his attacks while on the ground and come out of the shield with a grab to get him in the air. Once Falco is off stage use your Bair or Fair to chase him off to gimp his recovery Dair is good as well. As with every approach zoning is key, especially in this matchup, this is because Falco can grab you and a Falco grab at low percents equals well pain to put it that way. Still remember your zoning and spacing and you shouldn't have a hard time. Remember the blasters can be dodged or just crouch and approach your opponent this way. DI, remember that if you get grabbed as soon as you are released DI away from your opponent to evade more grabs or follow ups.

I faced a good Falco in a tournament were I used Luigi, the match was pretty close to say the least and at the last stock I went for the ol' jab>up B combo but he luckily power shielded the up B. After the match was over the first thing he said to me was wow that was really lucky I never thought I would be able to power shield that attack .

As far as Counterpicks go I'd have to say:

1. Rainbow Cruise: You have to always be on the move in this level, mostly jumping around and aerial-wise which gives Luigi an advantage because of his aerial game.

2. Battlefield: I don't really know why but in my experience it has given me advantage over Falco players, still have to see why though lol.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

2. Battlefield: I don't really know why but in my experience it has given me advantage over Falco players, still have to see why though lol.

The platforms help with approaching as you can use them to your advantage to avoid laser spam. Great info in the post!

 

[Wtfwasthat]

Also, if you happen to be playing on a flat stage such as FD, dont be afraid to crawl under lasers . Try carrying him off the stage with him facing you because his F-air is pretty bad.

Thats just a little info as of right now

 

[SparkEd]

Falco's actually not so hot once you're on top of him. After you approach him close range, he's fairly easy to kill; and he's easily UTilted at lower percents also. I suppose the only real thing that gets in your way is his blaster and Reflector.The blaster gets annoying, and Reflector you sometimes can't see coming, but if he does do any of those approach with empty SH and keep on him. Spot DOdge a bit more often to avoid that DThrow Laser blablabla combo thing, too.

 

[VEC]

Id say Falco is about a 6/10 not to bad but still a little challenging.

 

[Matumakka]

Falco is probably 7/10

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

Give some support to your ratings.

 

[VEC]

He has good ground game, better projectiles and can even intercept you when your using your abuable recovery. And his smashes have more range than yours but u beat him aerial so thats why its like 6-7/10

 

[RedMage8BT]

7/10 because falco out priroites luigi in air with BACK AIR but u still can **** in air but u get raope ground and far away

 

[VEC]

Yea probably around 6-7/10

 

[SparkEd]

5.5/10 because Long Range Game is annoying and easily avoided and his ground and aerial game have some loose screws in them. But he still has some **** combos he can pull off in certain situations and the Reflector is annoying.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

After calculations, the difficulty rating comes to 6.8, which was rounded up to 7. But guys, don't get too caught up on the ratings!

 

[VEC]

Who is next?

 

[Matumakka]

MK 10/10 or 10000/10

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

MK 10/10 or 10000/10

I'm not going to consider ratings in the final calculations unless they have some support given to them.

Its fine to give a rating, but it needs evidence to support it, otherwise it has no validity.

 

[SparkEd]

Meta Knight: 8.5/10

Once again, defense wins out here. Mach Tornado is actually overrated and I THINK you can Shield Grab from it (Need to test it >.<; ) but otherwise just run/shield from the duration and attack with a nice FAir if necessary. To keep the fight on the ground or not is debatable, because MK has you outprioritized and outranged either way, but I guess on the ground as you have a few more options of approaching him. Try not to UTilt Juggle too much unless you want his DAir in your face. Fireballs help IMMENSELY as he doesn't have a way with dealing with projectile (Other than Shielding/Dodging and Attacking them lol) and he is light, so Fire Punch away. Stay on your feet. Shuttle Loop is deadly above 100%. Another well needed skill that may help lots is Powershielding as you can counterattack easily. Overall, be patient and wait for an opening. Every hit counts; building up damage from afar with Fireballs and quick jabs will help in the long run better than going out all on him.

EDIT1: MK's NONRISING Netural B is actually canceled when it runs into a Fireball. Lovely. (Remember it gains even the slightest priority when even TAPPING B, but it's nice to stop one in its tracks

 

[Locuan]

On to one of the most challenging battles a Luigi user will face.

Overall rating: 9.5/10

This match is all about knowing your spacing and zoning, if you don't have that in mind well let's just say you lost badly. The match-up with meta knight changes Luigi's normal play-style. Fighting in the air against a Meta knight is kinda like suicide so you must maintain this match-up as grounded as possible. Fireballs, Luigi Tornado's, smash attacks, and tilts are all your friends in this match-up. You must play a defensive game against meta knight and you are in luck in this case because meta is all out offensive. Now from far use your fireballs to rack up damage on meta once he gets on a good distance try your approach, sometimes a Luigi Tornado does the right trick. If your opponent has a low percentile hit them with the ol' Utilt>Utilt>Usmash combo to rack up a nice percentage on him/her. Use your tilts and smashes with the right spacing so that the tip of your attack always hits. Now as always you will end up in the air once you start accumulating percentage. Now if you are in the air try to DI away from the Meta, or dodge his attack. If you can't do any of those, look and see what aerial he chooses to attack you and know which aerial you have that can out prioritize the one he/she just did. Nair normally does the trick (with the tip of it's hitbox). If you take all of what I've said in the post into consideration you should have a better chance against the Meta Knight match up. Now if you were sent flying and you are doing a recovery this will be a tough one, try to use green missiles (side b) as much as possible so that if you are hit they gimp your side b and not your trusty Luigi Tornado, once you see an opening to use your incredible recovery use it. Now even though Luigi has an amazing recovery Meta Knight can gimp it and Meta Knight is one of the gimping kings so you have to watch out for him when recovering from off stage.

As far as Counter-picks go I'd have to say stick to levels that are flat (like Mario Kart Circuit and Eldin, stuff like that) that way you take away one of Meta's most important factor gimping recoveries.

 

[VEC]

10/10 he destrous luigi in the air his best place and his smashes kill u first and are faster, he can abuse ur recovery, and his tornado out prioritzes everything u throw at him.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

I do believe I've seen videos of Luigi's N-air neutralizing Metaknight's Mach Tornado. I am not sure of this, I will have to find the video; however, try it out in training and see what results you get.

 

[SparkEd]

Luigi's N-Air DOES infact clank with MK's Rising TOrnado, but only the strong hit does and he ends up getting sucked in anyway because of Multihit.

However, a nonrising tornado gets canceled by it and the Fireball.

 

[Eten]

9/10 for being the hardest match-up Luigi has.

Let's say there is a space between you and MK that's about as far as the second aerial of your short hop will take you, or about one fair short hop for MK, given that you short hop towards your opponent. Now standard habit of any Luigi would probably be to short hop some combination of aerials to approach, but that doesn't work here. So Metaknight short hops toward you, you short hop backwards and maintain spacing, and Metaknight's Fair hits air. Now Mk is on the ground, and you're in the air still ready to do any aerial, DI forward and close the gap and hit MK. At least that's the basic idea of it. Now what is important is to keep a pattern so only MK is the one being hit, because what do you do if things are off?

First, I don't ever use any move that is going to have any real amount of lag to it. That means, you really only should be using your all of your aerials, your jab, up-angled fsmashes, uptilt, and the slowest move you probably use is the downsmash, which still has quick startup time. I never use luigi's normal Fsmash or his ftilt(which means I disagree with locuan128), downtilt, green missile, or charge any smash moves. All the rest, which Upsmash, and up-B, need MK in a position that is clearly punishable, like that he's falling in general stun after his B moves, or during the lag after Fsmash or uptilt. Also, the landing lag of your aerials are pretty okay, but don't land any fairs that won't autocancel(usually Fairs are fast enough that this won't happen unless you try to fast fall it or do one in the last 1/3rd of Luigi's short hop). The tornado is an exception in all of this- it's good for chasing and punishing lag too, but it's also risky if it gets shielded completely because you do have lag on the end of it. I believe it starts the fastest if you use it just before you land on the ground, and there are definitely occasions I'll use it, but I try to do it when I'm moderately close and will get at least 4/5 of the hits on them, and even more so if their shield is somewhat weakened already because it greatly increases my chance to get a shield-poke with the move. Your tornado can also be completely eaten by Meta-knights Mach Tornado, so that's another reason I'm just at tad more hesistant to use it in this match-up than most.

This may seem pretty basic, but there is no reason for Luigi to give up punishable lag, so don't do it. Second is maintaining the right amount of space. Fireballs are an optimal choice for this. They don't carry a whole lot of hitstun, but they are disruptive to both momentum and attacks. Don't use them too close, because it won't stun long enough to avoid getting punished for the lag. However, when MK likes to just rush you on the ground for a dash attack or grab from too far away, you can just pretty much just stand and toss them. The best place or context for luigi's fireballs, however, are in one half of your retreating shorthop- in the first half, it can catch MK doing a shorthop, or keep him from jumping, and then you can do a falling nair or tornado. Or you can find that you have shorthopped into an aerial, but aren't in a good timing for it for whatever reason, use a fireball. A second effective component for spacing is luigi's Jab. I use jabs a lot to as a reliable choice when I've gotten too close, and usually just after I've landed an aerial, because they come out fast and aren't punishable if the first one hits, and if it doesn't, you aren't likely to have exposed yourself.

Now back to the original idea, to move backwards with MK moving forward. With a double aerial in a short hop, you really start to have the flexibility to handle the speed and range of MK. A shorthop to a dair is usually pretty effective- it either misses, and of course your aerial is fast enough it doesn't matter, or Metaknight just ran into it trying to use his dash attack or grab. If he's run towards you, and for some reason has rolled towards you, bair or nair will hit him. In terms of the best option after you've gotten out of the way of a shorthop approach of MKs, your fair's reach is actually a bit farther than you might have assumed(he snaps his hand out and down, which is ideal for targets in front of and slightly below you, the hand also gets pretty big, it just happens fast), or you can, again, use a nair.

Now then. If MK pulls out his Mach Tornado or Drill Rush, shield it, or if you get above his Mach Tornado, Dair it. Countering these two moves depends simply on how often you expose yourself by doing laggy attacks, and how quickly you react.

You should note how to avoid getting juggled and how to juggle MK. Despite his aerial power, MK can still at least be annoyed with uairs(it is > his dairs). The trick is is to stick to uairs ONLY and to stay almost perfectly below MK at all times. This also helps avoid glide attacks(he can't go perfectly vertical in a glide so you should be pretty much able to avoid a glide attack completely once you are perfectly under him), shuttle loops, the whole deal. I see this "stay directly below them" thing done all the time by CPUs but strangely neglected by players- you can simply upsmash from a dash on the ground even, and it forces the opponent to head for the ledge. As for avoiding being juggled, a combination of a well timed airdodge, fast falling, and falling tornadoes should help.

Now just two remaining very specific insights to handling the MK match-up. One is getting in for the up-angled fsmash. This is your ideal KO move because it is fast, and has a lot of vertical KO power. It's so fast, in fact, that if you were to spam it, it still is likely to hit. Tossing it out at MK in a way that makes him very wary of it, and forces MK into an instinctive reaction to roll behind luigi which can be punished by simply using your up-angled fsmash right behind you.(Just hold up on the control stick and little bit to the direction you want to use Fsmash, and hit over-C to smash, to change directions just tilt the control stick a little bit the other direction) If you're on a little bit of a slope and below MK, the up-angled Fsmash becomes even easier to land and will catch MK in a lot of different attempts to approach you. However, the way I most commonly land the up-angled fsmash in the midst of things is to mix up the usual spacing and simply walk just a step towards MK and use an up-angled Fsmash while luigi slides a bit. It should happen fast enough that it catches MK by surprise while he moves thinking you'll do something else.

The second thing is recovery. MK gets his best kills(possibly below 100%) by using a reverse shuttle loop either while you are above the stage(easy for him to do) or while you are coming in from below the stage(harder, he has to grab the ledge). So to solve this problem, learn to sweetspot the ledge from a charged green missile(aim a little lower than the ledge itself). A chance of misfire/strength of a fully charged over-B is pretty annoying for MK to get hit by, too. Between this and not exposing yourself in the air by never doing anything more than a shorthop and at worst use a fast fall airdodge back to the ground(ie. no double jump from the ground, no full jump from the ground, no botched attempts to juggle), MK's chances to KO you DO get reduced considerably. Then it becomes all about strong hits from his Nair and dsmash. This adds to how long you will live per stock a lot, and really really helps.

Again, I rate this as 9/10. It's not a 10/10, no match-up is impossible for luigi, but I believe luigi has to work harder at this match-up than any other match-up he has to win. I covered a lot, some of it is pretty basic stuff, but I tried to emphasis and describe what specifically is very important to this matchup because I think if you understand how to approach this match-up right it goes from "impossible" to "difficult but possible".

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

Eten, because your post was so large yet so extensive, well written and helpful, i just quoted it directly. I hope you don't mind.

 

[Locuan]

Eten while I agree with you on the spacing and zoning part, (cause it is key to winning every match), fighting MK with aerials is not the best idea. Sure you can do retreating aerials but an MK user who does not see that coming has still a lot to learn. MK's aerials out prioritize Luigi's again fighting MK in the air is not wise. Jab, up-angled fsmashes, downsmash, they are all grounded moves as I had previously stated as playing defensively and on the ground.

Now back to the original idea, to move backwards with MK moving forward. With a double aerial in a short hop, you really start to have the flexibility to handle the speed and range of MK. A shorthop to a dair is usually pretty effective- it either misses, and of course your aerial is fast enough it doesn't matter, or Metaknight just ran into it trying to use his dash attack or grab. If he's run towards you, and for some reason has rolled towards you, bair or nair will hit him. In terms of the best option after you've gotten out of the way of a shorthop approach of MKs, your fair's reach is actually a bit farther than you might have assumed(he snaps his hand out and down, which is ideal for targets in front of and slightly below you, the hand also gets pretty big, it just happens fast), or you can, again, use a nair.

Wow, I just guess Meta play-styles then are really ineffective from what I've read on these forums. A meta running with a dash attack or grab is good but not the best, a person who knows his spacing correctly knows that Meta's moves have more range than Luigi's most of the time and the Meta user will use that to his advantage instead of running around trying to get an attack right in his/her face. In other words, one should look out for the Dtilt's, Ftilt's and Fairs Meta dishes out which normally have more range than any of Luigi's attacks or aerials for that matter not to mention Meta's Fairs out prioritize Luigi's, and these are done while a Meta user approaches at least more than a dash attack or dash into a grab. To counter those simply stay grounded and shield come out of it with a grab or smash attack and retreat. Now you say that if you manage to escape Meta's short hopped approach, which usually goes hand in hand with an aerial, if a Meta user knows his zoning correctly he knows he has to perform the short hopped aerial and retreat back so a Fair that Luigi dishes out won't hit him and in order for a Luigi attack to hit Meta in that case would be to DI towards Meta and by that time Meta can stage a counter attack. In that paragraph you wrote it is more directed to people who still have to learn proper spacing/zoning and don't know the real range of Meta's attacks.

Now escaping from a Drill Rush or Mach Tornado is not that hard just Dodge or jump away from them. Worst case scenario is when your shield is being punished by a Mach tornado, and still holding the shield button while the attack is in place should do the trick. Now if you encounter a Mach Tornado in the air the wisest thing to do is DI/Dodge away from it or as you said Eten hit it with a Dair at the right angle.

Phew I shouldn't be posting all of this considering Meta is my other main but still I'm here to help as always .

Now to the rest of what you said Eten it is mostly a defensive grounded game, as I had said it would be the wisest thing to do so I really don't know were you don't agree with me . I agree with most of the other things you said, if I missed any I'll be sure to edit or let you guys know.

 

[Eten]

My disagreement was on the use of any of Luigi's tilts besides uptilt, as you suggested, cause they aren't too fast or very good. A dsmash has just about as much range as an ftilt(especially if you slide forward when you do it), is just as fast, does 16% damage and can knock opponents right into an uptilt or even an upsmash, while both ftilt and dtilt don't have much that can follow them, do less damage, have less priority and don't have the behind-you hitbox. And I said Dsmash is the slowest move I'd probably use, too.
At just a tad closer range than either tilt or dsmash, a jab works much much better.

Anyway the dash/grab part is just to cover the bases and show the flexibility from the same retreating shorthop, most of what MK does is aerials vs. luigi because they have that much more range and speed. I don't mess around a lot in the zone where MK reaches with ftilts and dtilts. But yes I still stand by what I said, MK's range is wickedly far and that's the only way to play defensive and still beat it. If I could, I'd draw little graphs to show how that you move at near the same speed as MK in the same direction, keeping that distance between the two the same so you don't eat it(and that's good enough in of itself, it keeps you safe, where you can always toss another fireball). But since you're the one playing defensive you look for a mistake to go in your favor(IE. where MK doesn't DI back away mid-shorthop trying to keep himself safe cause he thinks he should be hitting you), which is where your chance to cover that range MK has on luigi and land a hit. I think I should point out that a combination of Dair/fair(or uair) + a fair(or uair), is fast enough to be both short hop double aerialled AND still be autocancelled(although that should probably be double checked with that frame data thread, I'm just going on memory), which usually means that even if you don't catch MK with that falling aerial you are likely to catch MK with a jab.

And remember, you're looking to create that mistake or opportunity as luigi from all those 6 damage green fireballs that I've taken to a lot recently.

IMHO, Luigi can't play this one in the air going to head to head, exactly, but you also can't play it defensively on the ground either, because you'll still be outranged by the same things, if not with more hassles(MKs dtilt, ftilt become issues), and your out of shield options get clipped because Luigi slides so easily(it's like free bonus spacing for MK... grumble...) or else I'd probably suggest more focus on shielding and shield dashes and whatnot. Instead, Luigi's ability to short hop double aerial any two aerials is a very important platform from which he can attack from with great flexibility, moving either forwards or backwards while still having access to very fast attacks. I find it's usefulness to still be very important and effective in this match-up even though that luigi's bair just outright loses when pitted directly against MK's fair.

Mmmmm, discussion is good. I'm glad you posted, more input to this thread from more people is good.

 

[Locuan]

Ah now I see were the disagreement is. Well then I think we should cover every aspect of a character match-up instead of covering only the most used techniques by a character.

And remember, you're looking to create that mistake or opportunity as luigi from all those 6 damage green fireballs that I've taken to a lot recently.

That's the most important thing all players should focus on though, and to remember that is a certain win.

Well I posted now cause I had to go to a tournament today...

 

[SparkEd]

Wario time.

I personally don't think he's too tough. Your NAir beats the crap out of his aerials and maybe even your BAir too. I'd have to check tho >.< But in any case you beat him out in the air. Does he Bike? No problem. Tornado it. I suppose the biggest things you need to look for here are his Bite and his Smashes, notably his FSmash and DSmash. FSmash boasts Super Armor Frames and DSmash lasts quite long, but likely you don't see a good Wario Main use it too much in the heat of battle. Bite can interrupt a few of yours moves so be wary of it, and finally be sure to avoid being above Wario when his Waft is charged. Being NEXT to him when he epxplodes actually isn't that bad of knockback, but it gives off a whopping 40%, so it's your choice. If you're hit by his ascent though, consider yourself dead.

Don't Tornado too much or he'll get the idea and shieldgrab.

Keep the fight in the air if possible. It takes away the annoying DTilt Wario has, which is really his only better range move. It also keeps a few of his kill moves like FTilt/Smash out of your way.

Overall, this shouldn't be too hard for Luigi. The usual Aerial Sneakiness, Fireballing and such should win you a victory. 5/10.

 

[VEC]

Wario I say 7/10 he is more floaty then me and the bite is a *****. He also has an annoying recovery.

 

[Matumakka]

6/10 for wario because u have a better air game but he has a beter ground game and recovery, nd the bite is realllllly annoying

 

[RedMage8BT]

6.5 for Wario because the bite is annoying you cant get him into an up tilt combo and he is sooo floarty its stupid because he is a fat ****. and he is ahrd to kill

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

personally, i'd say 5/10 for Wario. the bite is annoying if you run into it but it can be disrupted with fireballs (if you tornado in or SH approach, you'll just end up in his mouth). I'd advise to let him approach you; wario has great approach and most wario players tend to be aggresive. additionally, If you approach him (with a SH double aerial, for example) you might end up in his mouth again. be patient and take advantage of your aerials. A lot of this match is going to be fought in the air, and his aerials are just as good as yours, although luigi's are slightly faster, so be cautious. at higher percents, keep him on the ground; a lot of his ground attacks have lag that you can take advantage of with a fire jump punch (for instance, his F-smash. you can roll behind or jump behind and punish the lag.) watch out for the bike on the ground, fireballs wont stop it and its best to just dodge and let him ride past. you can also grab him off the bike if you time it right. don't try to hit him from below, his D-air will punish you. also when your in the air, remember your spacing. try not to get directly above him, as his clap (U-air) is deadly and has higher priority than Luigi's d-air. It's best to dodge and fastfall past him. try and fight him on the sides while in the air; your F-air and B-air are essential in this match. Additionally, because wario is so floaty and because his d-air is so deadly, juggling him is not the best of ideas. Also the DAC (dash attack cancel) becomes less useful because he can bite. His f-smash also has SA frames, so be wary when your close to him and use D-smash or F-smash. Just remember your spacing and be ready for his approach. A common approach with wario is his SH d-air, you can roll away and place a good up angled f-smash in his face.

 

[Ace83]

if someone's opinion is that luigi is better overall than wario on most stages, shouldn't their rating be less than 5/10 (does 5 constitute evenness)? just a general question.

 

[Pink-eye]

being a wario secondary, luigi ***** me

just so quick, and difficult to hit it seems

 

[Eten]

Aerial wise Luigi has better aerials, I know this for sure, but I've not played this much so I only know the wario basics and not really how this match develops between two quality players. Super armor on the fsmash, he's got great aerial mobility but you've got better aerials, don't jump into/tornado into the bite, his dsmash is long but it doesn't have a hitbox near the end you and you can get in there and up-B him pretty easily because of it, he likes to kill with uair or fsmash, that stuff really.

 

[PKboy89]

Aerial wise Luigi has better aerials, I know this for sure, but I've not played this much so I only know the wario basics and not really how this match develops between two quality players. Super armor on the fsmash, he's got great aerial mobility but you've got better aerials, don't jump into/tornado into the bite, his dsmash is long but it doesn't have a hitbox near the end you and you can get in there and up-B him pretty easily because of it, he likes to kill with uair or fsmash, that stuff really.

Good wario players never use the dsmash...but if they do use it, they know for sure that it will hit and that there is a good reason to it...usually to ledgeguard sometimes, but you won't find a good wario player who will dsmash and allow you the chance to up b...

I wouldn't say that Luigi has better aerials...Luigi beats him priority wise but Wario's aerials flow a lot better into more attacks then luigi's...not mention, Wario's chomp then catch Luigi's aerials so know what you're doing when approaching, all he has to do is open his mouth (Pun intended)...you should also be careful when using side b and down b...Wario's chomp can catch that as well...Luigi may have more priority...but Wario is still a nasty air fighter...you have to balance both your ground and air game for this guy...

You also have to get in real close to Wario...wario has no range, and Luigi doesn't matter, and if you shoot fireballs, Wario's moblity allows him to those easily and he can just run you over with his bike...

This is a straight up, in your face fight.

 

[Eten]

Like I said, I know the basics of wario's moveset, but I don't know how this match develops between two quality players. However, Luigi does have some really amazing aerials altogether, and they flow into plenty of attacks themselves too, just like wario. Especially Luigi's nair. Luigi's aerials do have more range and more speed and Wario's, and that's just a fact, but one also can't just call luigi having a plain out better aerial game though because of Wario's wicked aerial mobility. So there's a difference there.

I wish I had more opportunities to play Luigi vs. Wario, though, because it sounds like one hell of a fun match-up.

 

[SparkEd]

Tornado >>> Bike

Both Luigi and Wario have ridiculous air time so you can expect this fight to be aerial most of the time.

And the only thing I worry about Wario too much is an SH DAir chain :|

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

i'm fairly certain the bike beats the tornado in priority.