The Low Tier....

[gaborap]

Anyone wanna wager on Link ending up a low tier guy again? I think he will be at the bottom again but only because he is so versatile. I hope I'm wrong and he comes back with a vengeance

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I bet he will, he's Lunk.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

No bet. Never make wagers on incomplete data regardless of how sure it seems. SSB4 is a new beast. At least wait until the game is released.

Also, johning before the game has even hit the shelves has got to be some kind of record.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Either way I don't like Link, I like playing as Ganondorf better, always did, always will, no matter what.

I see myself using Toon Link over Link, I never really gave Toon Link a chance in Brawl, but I'm willing to perhaps make a slight change and use Toon Link.

 

[Une]

Lol count on it. 3/4 so far.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well out of all the smash games he is the only character to be low tier consistently.

 

[LunchPolice]

Fourth time's the charm!
Come on, Lurnk! I believe in you!

 

[_Darkpit_]

My wish in SSB4 is a perfect balance. But I think thats impossible. Nothing is perfect. Let's make no mistake about it.

So I have to say, I hope that less popular characters should be higher in the new tier list than popular characters, because some franchises needs more fans for sequels. Maybe gamers would have more fun if they achieve better results with a less popular character. It could be possible that more fans would want to have a new game.

For example: Link is popular enough... a lot of fans play him in Zeldagames and in Smashbros. But whats about characters like Ice Climbers, Ness / Lucas, Starfox............

It would be shame if fans would play only Link or almost ever play Link. Because they are lucky with Zelda games and of course they play him in SSB4 as maincharakter. And maybe other characters doesn't get a chance.

Please don't get me wrong but I don't want to have Super Zelda Bros. ^^ Zelda franchise is very good represent... they have a lot of characters in the rooster, a lot of stages... items....

I don't want to have an unbalanced smash bros, but like I said... nothing is perfect. So I think, charakters with to less attentiveness deserve to be higher in the new tierlist. And Link gets enough attentiveness. Everybody like Zeldagames. ^^ But a few fans are going to be disadvantaged... ( like Starfox, Earthbound, Ice Climber fans.... ) if they get weak AND unpopular charakters and don't get a sequel with their favourite franchise. ^^ In my opinion it would be to unkind.


Please don't reply to bad I wrote my opinion and I don't mean it bad. ^^

 

[Xcano]

I think link will end up mid tier this time as he seems to have been slightly buffed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am hoping he'll be better this time around to. Hope they buff his Arrows somewhat. Give him a faster, stronger F Tilt, keep the D Air Spike and give him the NTSC Melee Spin Attack. U Air can become more powerful to, as in SSB64. And his F Smash needs to connect better, like Toon Link's.

 

[praline]

I guess we'll see when it comes out. Either way I'm not too fond of tier lists.

 

[Ryan.]

I hope he comes back with a vengeance too.

 

[link and ike lover]

I don't care if he is im gonna main him no matter what! Even if he is the worst character. Link is the best in my eyes

I hope he comes back with a vengeance too.

Same here

 

[.toasty]

Wishlist for a good link:
Melee's recoveries
64s bombs and boomerang
Pit's bow
Melee's aerials
Not slow

 

[greenluigiman2]

He'll be better than he is in Brawl. That's for sure.

 

[Sun & Moon]

Link will be low tier. Why end such an old smash tradition?

 

[victinivcreate1]

My list of buffs as a Link secondary

-Bomb Arrows
-Higher air speed
-Running speed akin to that of Skyward Sword (he moved pretty quick)
-Ftilt being changed to Shield Bash, which can be angled up or down to block upward or downward attacks. Press A again to do his Brawl ftilt.
-Forward air having much less start up lag and both hits are able to connect, even at high percentages
-Down air spike/KOs grounded opponents at 110%
-Arrows travel further, take less time to charge, shoot faster too.
-Jab from frame 6 to frame 3.
-Melee Spin Slash.
-Spin Attack has better distance and no longer relies on momentum for horizontal distance.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Seeing as Bowser is being reworked, maybe Link will get a chance. Maybe.

 

[FlynnCL]

I have fun playing as Link in Brawl, yet it always feels like he does have issues.

As far as I can work out, Brawl had momentum against your air speed when trying to recover in the opposite direction (right after using your midair jump really shows this). The result is that Link will move virtually no horizontal distance at all, and considering Spin Attack is already a pretty bad recovery--being off-stage was rarely worth it. The new ledge mechanics seem to give hope of making his tether more useful. I'd actually prefer a tether system like Melee's, but anything is better than Brawl so I'm happy.

I believe Bombs need to be much stronger. Gale Boomerang needs to be... just more useful. Link should be able to turn around freely with his Bow, like Pit, and Spin Attack should revert back to Melee power, although the obscenely powerful semi-spike shouldn't really return (unless it's weaker).

Apart from neutral aerial being stronger, down aerial having reduced landing lag and back air connecting a little easier, I think his aerials are pretty much fine. Ground based moves are mostly fine; forward tilt and forward smash both hit on frame 15, yet forward tilt is so much more predictable thanks to that animation, I really find that forward smash 1 outclasses forward tilt. I've never liked up smash when up-tilt exists, and down tilt feels too slow and is mostly a set-up in a game where set-ups are easily cancelled thanks to an air-dodge.

Oh, and neutral attack is one of my favourite moves! Just don't ever bring back the rapid jab. I hate that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Up Air could be a lot stronger, as it was in Smash 64. It was quite a damage building move back then, but in Melee and Brawl it was ****. Forward Air I'd also like to return to a one hit attack.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

In Melee his Nair and Uair were actually pretty damn good.

 

[Seraphim.]

I think Link could sneak into lower mid tier, they gotta buff his recovery or at least allow his clawshot to latch onto any part of the stage that way he won't be so easy to edge guard. Making his moves less laggy would also work.

 

[Dott]

I don't care if he is im gonna main him no matter what! Even if he is the worst character. Link is the best in my eyes

200% agreed

 

[link and ike lover]

200% agreed

Awesome!!!! We are link main unite!! And we dont care about the tier list. We are Link main forever!!!!!

 

[Smady]

I play some Link, prefer him to Toon Link actually. Show those tier lists the door.

 

[Thor]

Just buff his *someone pick an expletive to put in here*ing recovery and he'll probably make it out of low-tier, given all his stuff (decent nair, decent KO option in dsmash (grounded up+B and dair in Melee), projectiles).

Like jeez Sakurai, the one game his recovery isn't terrible you nerf him because he was "too good for casual play" (which is why he nerfed 64 Ness - I read this somewhere and was deeply saddened that he nerfed based on casuals...).

He just needs back a better (faster) nair and a better recovery and he almost certainly won't be low-tier (aAs long as he retains okay KO power in dsmash or gets it in fsmash/grounded up+b).

If his up+B can go twice as high (at least) and can move laterally without prior momentum, I truly will give Link a shot (I'll give him a shot anyway if his recovery is still lame, but I'm not sure I'll put forth as much effort as I would otherwise). If he gets Melee recovery back I'll give him a good shot too. But my mains are all over the board, so no promises (unfortunately I've been playing a lot more Melee Falco - it's undeniable he's better at dealing with Fox and Sheik's pressure [and comboing non-spacies] than Link... ).

If he's low-tier despite a buffed-recovery, it will be because Sakurai either nerfed him hard in stupid ways, or else he just didn't get his fair share of the buffing pie (which I would actually be okay with, if Link was exploitable but just outperformed - then he'd still be fun in casual matches and friendlies, unlike in Brawl...).

 

[thedoctr11]

Loving The Office gifs. It looks like he's received some buffs and a new dash attack.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

If you go to 2 minutes and 10 seconds in the direct video, you see him do his Up + B midair. It definitely goes a lot higher now.

 

[S_B]

I'd love for Link to come back and not suck.

In SSB64, at least he hit like a truck. I remember how badly he was nerfed in melee, ugg...

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Let's be honest everyone; Sakurai seems to have it out for the Zelda series as a whole (save for Zelda herself.) Link will be Lunk, and Ganondorf will be a sitting duck. If Link does make it out of bottom tier, I'll be amazed, but judging from the past, it seems more likely that he'll eventually end up absolute-bottom tier. There will need to be a new name for such a tier...the "Link" tier...

 

[Sonicguy726]

I'd love for Link to come back and not suck.

In SSB64, at least he hit like a truck. I remember how badly he was nerfed in melee, ugg...

What link was decent in melee, brawl was what really nerfed him

Let's be honest everyone; Sakurai seems to have it out for the Zelda series as a whole (save for Zelda herself.) Link will be Lunk, and Ganondorf will be a sitting duck. If Link does make it out of bottom tier, I'll be amazed, but judging from the past, it seems more likely that he'll eventually end up absolute-bottom tier. There will need to be a new name for such a tier...the "Link" tier...

Hey at least he isn't ganondorf, he just never wins

 

[ZombieBran]

Melee Link is the best Link has been in official Smash Bros, but even there he's mid tier.
PM Link is the best Link has ever been, so I can't help but be disappointed when Link is inevitably not as impressive in Smash 4 as he is in PM.

More knockback and damage on all of his projectiles would be good. Especially his arrows. An all around speed buff and much less aerial landing lag is also on my wishlist. The ability to use his tether recover out of his up-B (as in Balanced Brawl) would be a huge recovery buff.

And last but most important; if there is actual hitstun, Link would be buffed by that alone.

 

[Empyrean]

Melee Link is the best Link has been in official Smash Bros, but even there he's mid tier.
PM Link is the best Link has ever been, so I can't help but be disappointed when Link is inevitably not as impressive in Smash 4 as he is in PM.

More knockback and damage on all of his projectiles would be good. Especially his arrows. An all around speed buff and much less aerial landing lag is also on my wishlist. The ability to use his tether recover out of his up-B (as in Balanced Brawl) would be a huge recovery buff.

And last but most important; if there is actual hitstun, Link would be buffed by that alone.

I would just like to point out that hitstun would also make him more prone to be comboed himself. Although he still couldn't do much even with hitstun cancelling sooo....

I really do hope that Link can jump a few tiers this time around, but to reach PM levels of godlike-ness is probably impossible.

 

[Sovereign]

Melee Link is the best Link has been in official Smash Bros, but even there he's mid tier.
PM Link is the best Link has ever been, so I can't help but be disappointed when Link is inevitably not as impressive in Smash 4 as he is in PM.

More knockback and damage on all of his projectiles would be good. Especially his arrows. An all around speed buff and much less aerial landing lag is also on my wishlist. The ability to use his tether recover out of his up-B (as in Balanced Brawl) would be a huge recovery buff.

And last but most important; if there is actual hitstun, Link would be buffed by that alone.

PM isn't a very reliable comparison in all the Smash games, due to the fact that it's a hacked game. I think with hitstun, and from the looks of it, improved knockback on some moves, Link won't end up where most are dreading he'll end up.

Ganon went from Mid-High(?) to complete trash, from Melee to Brawl. I'd save tier placement guesses for when we've actually played the characters in the game.

 

[ZombieBran]

PM isn't a very reliable comparison in all the Smash games, due to the fact that it's a hacked game. I think with hitstun, and from the looks of it, improved knockback on some moves, Link won't end up where most are dreading he'll end up.

Ganon went from Mid-High(?) to complete trash, from Melee to Brawl. I'd save tier placement guesses for when we've actually played the characters in the game.

I disagree, I think PM is a reliable comparison. It's far more like Melee and Brawl than 64 is and deserves discussion. In any case, I wasn't really using it to predict Link in Smash 4. In fact, I wasn't predicting anything. I was just discussing buffs I think this historically bad/mediocre character needs to become competitive.

Obviously no one can make an educated tier list and no one is trying to yet.

Just increasing his knockback wouldn't be enough to save him, tbh. Luckily, it looks like Sakurai realizes this.
His new f air, for example, is faster and swings in wider arcs. Already a good buff.

The fact that Namco is involved makes me have hope that infamous low tier characters (Link, Zelda, Samus, Bowser, etc) may actually be competitive now.

 

[Sovereign]

I disagree, I think PM is a reliable comparison. It's far more like Melee and Brawl than 64 is and deserves discussion. In any case, I wasn't really using it to predict Link in Smash 4. In fact, I wasn't predicting anything. I was just discussing buffs I think this historically bad/mediocre character needs to become competitive.

Obviously no one can make an educated tier list and no one is trying to yet.

Just increasing his knockback wouldn't be enough to save him, tbh. Luckily, it looks like Sakurai realizes this.
His new f air, for example, is faster and swings in wider arcs. Already a good buff.

The fact that Namco is involved makes me have hope that infamous low tier characters (Link, Zelda, Samus, Bowser, etc) may actually be competitive now.

Of course it's going to be like Brawl, because of the foundation of the mod, which in turn was intended to be more like Melee. P:M is trying to recreate unintended mechanics, while fixing some ridiculous ones(ledgehogging), which is why I particularly can't credit it to any discussion among official Smash games.

Not only his knockback, but knockback in general, unless the characters being hit by certain moves were already at higher percentages. Most, if not all Link players racked damage up from ranged moves, and since he didn't have many kill moves, that were reliable to land, this would be a very useful buff, for him.

 

[link and ike lover]

IT'S FREAKIN' LINK! - GOD OF ALL CHARACTERS

 

[Sonicguy726]

IT'S FREAKIN' LINK! - GOD OF ALL CHARACTERS

Actually the 4th worst in brawl, so nowhere near a god, meta knight would be god

 

[link and ike lover]

Actually the 4th worst in brawl, so nowhere near a god, meta knight would be god

Everyone got there own opinion. Izaw makes Link look like a God so can I. You just gotta know how to use him

 

[Sonicguy726]

Everyone got there own opinion. Izaw makes Link look like a God so can I. You just gotta know how to use him

But he isn't good, with the right player they can win but they are still terrible