The Low Tier....

[Batu]

Well i hope that fox get better, honestly from what i've seen he is worst than his brawl incarnation. I hate to admit it, but he was a fun character to fight and now that he got more nerfed is like a "Meh" to beat him... I remember the melee times when i was always trying to find new techs or something to fight back all the mass population of fox and falco that was overwhelming the community here in my country. Now that i look back, it was so fun just doing that. Good times, good times...

 

[Juan Leonardo]

Sakurai has a secret grudge against Link, ha-ha. Link always ends up at the bottom of the tier lists. I remember when Nintendo announced Super Smash Bros. 4. I said to my brother, "Link can dash in Skyward Sword, so Link will be much faster in Super Smash Bros. 4."

Wouldn't it be sick if Sakurai added in some attacks from the upcoming Hyrule Warriors as a last-minute surprise?

 

[Batu]

Take a look at this...
http://meleeiton.me/2014/06/10/invitational-impressions/
So it means that link is in the bottom again?

 

[L9999]

Of what was shown at E3, Link is no low tier at all. His recovery is a billion times better, aerials have almost no lag, Boomerang is not totally worthless, Arrows charge faster, has more reliable kill moves, and overall faster in every aspect in life. Except maybe the Bombs.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Link is mid at least hopefully better than his melee form which was mid I think.Also to add to what L9999 said up air is safer on hit dash attack can jump to dodge lower hits and down air is a meteor hit.

 

[Ragna22]

My list of buffs as a Link secondary

-Bomb Arrows
-Higher air speed
-Running speed akin to that of Skyward Sword (he moved pretty quick)
-Ftilt being changed to Shield Bash, which can be angled up or down to block upward or downward attacks. Press A again to do his Brawl ftilt.
-Forward air having much less start up lag and both hits are able to connect, even at high percentages
-Down air spike/KOs grounded opponents at 110%
-Arrows travel further, take less time to charge, shoot faster too.
-Jab from frame 6 to frame 3.
-Melee Spin Slash.
-Spin Attack has better distance and no longer relies on momentum for horizontal distance.

I think it'd help if he can aim his arrows too, kinda like Pit only with more directions since ya know, Link can't control where his arrows go after he shoots like Pit can.

 

[Rhus]

It's really nice to come on a board and see people so dedicated to their characters, and the Link boards seem to have that spark as well.

I applaud your dedication.

 

[Batu]

i really hope him be mid tier this time

Link is mid at least hopefully better than his melee form which was mid I think.Also to add to what L9999 said up air is safer on hit dash attack can jump to dodge lower hits and down air is a meteor hit.

Melee link was not mid tier at all... He is low tier, but not botton tier like brawl link.

 

[Rhus]

Link has been cursed like my other main, Ness, for too long. I would really like to see both of them buffed considerably this time around.

 

[L9999]

I hope Ness gets as buffed as Link in this game.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I'll be honest, I never knew Link was low-tier. I was always doing really good with him so I thought he was at least mid-tier. The only thing I hated was is Front Smash (that second hit always messed me up) and his Up B because of the lack of good recovery. So if that's the case then I'd accept a nice buff from him

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Is his Forward smash any different from brawl?

 

[Batu]

Is his Forward smash any different from brawl?

I think i read somewhere that his first hit has hitstun, so the second hit will connect 99.9% (0.1% is if you are so dumb to decide not to do the second hit xD)

 

[Lozjam]

I plan on using Link and Rosalina as my mains. But Link for the win. I have mained him in every smash game. The reason Link is so good in Project M and dominates the competitive scene there is because we put all that time and effort into Link, and it gives us such a great advantage because we are so used to have a lot less. Link will be great in Smash 4 for that reason.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I think i read somewhere that his first hit has hitstun, so the second hit will connect 99.9% (0.1% is if you are so dumb to decide not to do the second hit xD)

Really?? Cus together, the damage averaged out to like 36% or something like that! Considering you forward smash the guy at 0% (the only time you could pull that off).

So if that's the case, I'm sure the first hit will be extremely weakened.

 

[Batu]

Really?? Cus together, the damage averaged out to like 36% or something like that! Considering you forward smash the guy at 0% (the only time you could pull that off).

So if that's the case, I'm sure the first hit will be extremely weakened.

I guess we have to see the comic-con and hope that a player with link pull it off.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Someone has indeed in the bottom tier list. There will never be a perfect balance. ( But it would be very great if it would works. )

Look this from the bright side: Zelda gets enough games. I think in Smash isn't it important how good Link is. Maybe its good that character with less popularity are better. For example F-Zero supporters doesn't get a F-Zero game... If they wouldn't have a good Captain Falcon it would be a big disappoitmnet for them. Because of that its okay, if popular characters like Link are in the bottom. Plus the Zeldaseries have a lot of privileges ( although its not the mascot of Nintendo ) Mario, Zelda, DK and other gamers have fun with their games and supporters from Earthbound / Mother, F-Zero, Kid Icarus.................................. ?

Please don't get me wrong, but I think its very unfair to the supporters with less popularity franchises. They never get a game and in Smash Bros they would have a weak character to boot. Its horridly enough I think. =I

 

[A2ZOMG]

Link's going to not suck in this game for one reason. Tether grabs finally aren't complete suck.

We saw ZSS win the invitational because she now actually has a usable grab to compliment her moveset. That change to tether grabs in general is a REALLY REALLY huge buff to Link, because it means you can actually space grabs dynamically and not feel extremely stupid against spotdodges.

 

[SmashWolf]

Link seems.....better? Sort of, but I'm not seeing any results yet from the people playing in footage. I guess most of us Link veterans are going to have to try it out ourselves before we'll know for sure. I think we can all agree we're sick of being the "worse version" of our Young/Toon counterparts.

 

[Sen. Sawft]

I think it's a form of blasphemy for Link to be anything BUT low tier.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I think it's a form of blasphemy for Link to be anything BUT low tier.

Can't tell if trolling?

If you are, then I must applaud you.

If you aren't, then why on earth would you go into the forum for people supporting Link and outright say that it's blasphemy for him not to suck AGAIN?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Honestly I think people are underestimating just how dangerous Link is going to be with a grab that doesn't suck. All tether grabs in this game finally have half the ending lag because it's utterly insane for tether grabs to be as garbage as they have been in previous games due to already suffering from slower startup.

Link is good at zoning in all the games he's playable in. Why do Dedede and Olimar perform well in Brawl? They have GOOD GRABS to compliment their zoning options. By having a grab that isn't outrageously punishable for being sidestepped, suddenly Link's options to punish blocking his zoning are much more reliable not to mention his grab is now going to be way more viable in footsies and spacing.

Most of Link's moves are already good and useful. Primarily, his biggest hole in his gameplan in Melee and Brawl has always been the unreliability of his grab which limits his mixup. Most likely, he won't be top tier simply because he still can be outmaneuvered and outpressured in close range, but at least his gameplan is overall a LOT saferand more viable when he needs to be on the offensive.

 

[Naroghin]

The better Z in general, amongst many other things, will bump Link up the tier listing at least a little. I'm just trying not to get my hopes up at this point, considering the fact that many other low-tier characters have been buffed, not to mention that some high-tier characters have also been buffed. I just hope for a character that won't force a certain play style just to have a chance at competitive play.

 

[_Darkpit_]

I think it'd help if he can aim his arrows too, kinda like Pit only with more directions since ya know, Link can't control where his arrows go after he shoots like Pit can.

No. Link would be to good if he could control where his arrows go after he shoots.

Links arrows damage enemys more than Pit
Like Sakurai said... Links arrows goes closer to Pit if they hit to each other
His Arrows are faster ( it looks faster, if I'm wrong I'm sorry )
Links arrows can be used further than Pits
In Brawl Link shoots faster his arrow than Pit. I think in SSB4 Link will do it again.

Pits arrows can be controlled by the gamer okay.... But it isn't sure to hit the enemy 100%

Plus Pit has enough nerfes for his arrows. To improve Links arrows again would be to OP. Think about the different between Link and Pits arrows now.

Its okay that Pits arrows are nerfed but thats enough.

Here are some details:

- Pit needs more time to use his arrows + after shooting he needs time to do anything.
- The arrow range aren't infinite anymore
- He can't use until 4 arrows at the same time like in Brawl. I mean the arrow loops. [ Okay I now thats not very important for competetive play, but its a nerf too. With 1 arrow loop you can free yourself for example ]
- No arrow rain [ Same like arrow loops ]
- The arrows looks slower than brawl

 

[Ragna22]

No. Link would be to good if he could control where his arrows go after he shoots.

Links arrows damage enemys more than Pit
Like Sakurai said... Links arrows goes closer to Pit if they hit to each other
His Arrows are faster ( it looks faster, if I'm wrong I'm sorry )
Links arrows can be used further than Pits
In Brawl Link shoots faster his arrow than Pit. I think in SSB4 Link will do it again.

Pits arrows can be controlled by the gamer okay.... But it isn't sure to hit the enemy 100%

Plus Pit has enough nerfes for his arrows. To improve Links arrows again would be to OP. Think about the different between Link and Pits arrows now.

Its okay that Pits arrows are nerfed but thats enough.

Here are some details:

- Pit needs more time to use his arrows + after shooting he needs time to do anything.
- The arrow range aren't infinite anymore
- He can't use until 4 arrows at the same time like in Brawl. I mean the arrow loops. [ Okay I now thats not very important for competetive play, but its a nerf too. With 1 arrow loop you can free yourself for example ]
- No arrow rain [ Same like arrow loops ]
- The arrows looks slower than brawl

I don't think it'd be too powerful because Link recovers way slower than Pit does and Link can't use his arrows in the air as effectively as Pit can and there's also the fact that Link has to charge his arrows to get more distance meanwhile Pit's charge mostly effects the arrow's speed, otherwise you can almost rapid fire arrows from a better distance than Link.

Oh and Link's general game plan isn't that focused on the arrows and even if it was characters like Fox, Falco, or hell even Pit himself can reflect them.

 

[_Darkpit_]

I don't think it'd be too powerful because Link recovers way slower than Pit does and Link can't use his arrows in the air as effectively as Pit can and there's also the fact that Link has to charge his arrows to get more distance meanwhile Pit's charge mostly effects the arrow's speed, otherwise you can almost rapid fire arrows from a better distance than Link.

Oh and Link's general game plan isn't that focused on the arrows and even if it was characters like Fox, Falco, or hell even Pit himself can reflect them.

I think as Pit its to risky to use the arrows in the air because he needs to much time. ^^ That means Pit falls lower but he is a very defensive character. To risk the own life is very... silly [ Sorry for the word ] because defensive is Pits strength.

Yes maybe his arrows are worse than Pits but he has more projectiles than he. You could spam with it very often [ like Izaw in Project M ]. That means Link has more opportunities for range. Okay characters like Pit, Fox, Falco, Mario and so on can reflect the projectiles, but if you use projectiles like bombs to deceive, you could get a advantage. You could throw your bomb up and combined it with the grabbling iron or whatever. ^^ Or you keep your bomb in the air and you dodge behind the enemy if the bomb detonates. I think there are enough opportunities to evade the reflector.

Without reflector for this characters, Link would be maybe to good because projectile spam. ( Slow characters have more difficulties with that, like Ganondorf )

 

[Ragna22]

I think as Pit its to risky to use the arrows in the air because he needs to much time. ^^ That means Pit falls lower but he is a very defensive character. To risk the own life is very... silly [ Sorry for the word ] because defensive is Pits strength.

Yes maybe his arrows are worse than Pits but he has more projectiles than he. You could spam with it very often [ like Izaw in Project M ]. That means Link has more opportunities for range. Okay characters like Pit, Fox, Falco, Mario and so on can reflect the projectiles, but if you use projectiles like bombs to deceive, you could get a advantage. You could throw your bomb up and combined it with the grabbling iron or whatever. ^^ Or you keep your bomb in the air and you dodge behind the enemy if the bomb detonates. I think there are enough opportunities to evade the reflector.

Without reflector for this characters, Link would be maybe to good because projectile spam. ( Slow characters have more difficulties with that, like Ganondorf )

Pit can control where his arrow goes when he fires that so as long as you're good at controlling it, you shouldn't have much of a problem short hopping, shooting, then tilting the control stick down at the right time.

As for constant projectiles , yes there are ways to counter reflectors, however it's mostly through mind games and you yourself can play similar mind games to discourage Link players from using their projectiles too much and we're only talking about his arrows here which is way riskier to use up close than the boomerang or the bomb, from a distance, maybe but there are ways to avoid that too, like delaying your double jumps to bait Link to use his arrows orblock and dodge at the right time.

And for the record, I honestly don't believe that Pit is mostly a defensive character, he seems like one of those characters who is great with both offense and defense which can really be said for every character depending on how the player uses them, I've seen defensive Falcon players, offensive Falcon players, offensive Pikachu players, Defensive Pikachu players, ect, and I've played Pit a bunch in Project M and Brawl and I mostly used him offensively and it worked just fine for me and I've even seen a really good offensive Brawl Pit around my area.

Even if you're playing a more defensive Pit though, by all means you should be a more careful fighter and short hopping with arrow control should by all means be really good for that especially against Link who, as you said will shower you with projectiles from a distance, and even if a Link player decided to try to get closer Link moves slow anyway so use Pit's superior mobility to your advantage and cancel out his arrow charges with your own short hop arrows

That said, I think Link's arrows would be balanced as long as his recovery animation is just as slow as it's been and if he still has to charge it to get enough distance because if it was this way, Pit players can still make it hard for Link to hit them especially since Smash 4 is bringing back the multi air dodge from Brawl.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Thats right but every character needs some advantages in his moves.

But I think you underrated the current difference between Links and Pits arrows.
Pit has already a lot of nerfes and Link a lot of buffs.

For example: Links arrows damage 6% - Pits arrows in average 3%. This is the double.
In Brawl Links arrows damaged 12 % ( full charged arrows ) Pits 11%.

As Link you can use short hops too. Especially because Links arrows charge are faster than in Brawl + its closer to Pit.
Pit has more cooldown after shooting.

This is just 2 facts about the arrows. We can see the arrows are stronger.

[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXICr1VIEw 1:32 min ]

[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgQZ01RyAaU 1:50 min ]

Of course all stronger attacks have to be more difficult to use. Maybe Links arrows have more knockback than Pits.

About the reflector: As Link you should charge your arrow from the distance. Pit hasn't angel ring anymore. That means you can decide when do you want to shoot. If a Pit player use the guardian orbitars you can wait too until Pit have to interrupt his move.

The balance is very delicate. Its really okay that Pits arrows are nerfed and Links are buffed, but I think thats enough. If Link should be able to aim in every direction, his arrows should be weaker because its not difficult to aim I think.

 

[Ragna22]

Thats right but every character needs some advantages in his moves.

But I think you underrated the current difference between Links and Pits arrows.
Pit has already a lot of nerfes and Link a lot of buffs.

For example: Links arrows damage 6% - Pits arrows in average 3%. This is the double.
In Brawl Links arrows damaged 12 % ( full charged arrows ) Pits 11%.

As Link you can use short hops too. Especially because Links arrows charge are faster than in Brawl + its closer to Pit.
Pit has more cooldown after shooting.

This is just 2 facts about the arrows. We can see the arrows are stronger.

[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXICr1VIEw 1:32 min ]

[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WgQZ01RyAaU 1:50 min ]

Of course all stronger attacks have to be more difficult to use. Maybe Links arrows have more knockback than Pits.

About the reflector: As Link you should charge your arrow from the distance. Pit hasn't angel ring anymore. That means you can decide when do you want to shoot. If a Pit player use the guardian orbitars you can wait too until Pit have to interrupt his move.

The balance is very delicate. Its really okay that Pits arrows are nerfed and Links are buffed, but I think thats enough. If Link should be able to aim in every direction, his arrows should be weaker because its not difficult to aim I think.

I see what you're getting at but even if Link charges faster, Pit should still be able to out-zone him with arrows because Link still charges for distance, Pit already has his distance without the need to charge ya know? But you are right if they do give Link the ability to aim his arrows should be weaker.

 

[_Darkpit_]

I see what you're getting at but even if Link charges faster, Pit should still be able to out-zone him with arrows because Link still charges for distance, Pit already has his distance without the need to charge ya know? But you are right if they do give Link the ability to aim his arrows should be weaker.

I think Link will have another advantages. We will see. ^^

 

[Ragna22]

I think Link will have another advantages. We will see. ^^

Yeah, I'm already liking his new dash attack, granted the start up is slow but the range is worth it if you get the timing right.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I don't care much about the tier anymore. As long as Link's moves get better in this next game, I'm a happy camper.