The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

[Samcrumpit]

Well tomorrow is the day of the Nindies direct. And a lot of people are speculating that Shantae will get in based on Wayforwards silence on the matter.

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

While we're at it, what do you think Shantae's chances are looking like? I'm could see her making it in, but I don't expect anything tomorrow. She definitely did great on the ballot and Wayforward is tight with Nintendo. The only thing holding her back is that the guest characters have a pretty high bar to meet compared to first parties. But with Bayonetta getting in because Platinum was tight with Nintendo despite her not being an icon, Shantae's biggest flaw is bit less serious. As for me wanting her, I guess if I can get past the jealousy, she would be a rather interesting female addition.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t think Shantae’s getting in. I think the best she could manage for this game is an AT like Shovel Knight.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I guess I get why you feel that way. I have a couple qualms with that line of thinking, though:

1) Earlier on this page, you told me that you believe that Lycanroc's Dusk Form was a legitimate contender for Smash. This conflicts with your stance on USUM. Perhaps LDF is a contender, but by that logic, so is Necrozma.

2) I will agree that Necrozma was a post-game legendary in Sun/Moon, but that isn't necessarily a detriment to his case. Mewtwo served the same role in his debut game.

I'm not even necessarily that big a fan of Necrozma. I just think that it would be a missed opportunity to have a potential Gen 7 character not be one of the alternate-universe spacemen that helped make Gen 7 stand out a bit more.

1) I’ll admit, I think that dusk Lycanroc is more likely than Necrozma. The point is, why heavily market Lycanroc having a new form as opposed to a legendary that is part of the main story unless something is going on behind the scenes? Honestly, that legendary is overshadowed by the fact that basically every other main game legendary is obtainable, (depending on which version you have) and the most amazing UB imo, Naganadel. The only redeeming quality Necrozma got was the ultra combinations, which hasn’t been done since Kyurem.

2) Mewtwo was extremely popular and noticeable. Also, his post game appearance didn’t require a tough side quest that you had almost no reason to complete. Mewtwo literally required only beating the game, while Necrozma made you go out of your way to get every ultra beast just for a pokemon that wasn’t worth it for the amount of effort required, as the poster legend and a Tapu could easily fill out all you needed for legends in SM. In Mewtwo’s case, he is far more significant, being stronger than all three of the other legends in Kanto by a pretty good margin, which makes the trip to cerulean cave worthwhile, especially when you want to attempt the Pokémon league a second time.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Well tomorrow is the day of the Nindies direct. And a lot of people are speculating that Shantae will get in based on Wayforwards silence on the matter.

View attachment 160110

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

While we're at it, what do you think Shantae's chances are looking like? I'm not convinced that she's making it in and I don't expect anything tomorrow. Not that I'm against her inclusion. I guess if I can get past the jealousy, she would be a rather interesting female addition.

Shantae, Skull Kid, Geno, Isaac, and Ashley all use magic differently. Ashley is more of the classic cartoon witch archetype, while Isaac is a combination of "earthbending" and sword usage and Skull Kid is a surreal trickster. Admittedly, I've never played SMRPG or Shantae, but from what I've seen of them, they wouldn't really step on Ashley's toes, either.

That being said, the amount of swords in Smash should be a sort of reassurance. So long as Sakurai and his team can think of a fun moveset, it obviously doesn't matter how many people use the same fighting technique/utensil.

As far as Shantae goes, I just don't see it happening. If she gets in tomorrow, then congrats in advance to her fans, but I will be legitimately blindsided.

 

[Euler23]

I think people are selling Decidueye's stock because Vergeben predicted he won't be in it. Which is reasonable, considering Vergeben has batted 1.000 so far and many of his predictions have been far from obvious.

Well tomorrow is the day of the Nindies direct. And a lot of people are speculating that Shantae will get in based on Wayforwards silence on the matter.

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

If they can have 31 different anime swordsmen with a down-B counter move, they can have more than one mage fighter.

(also - echo fighters!)

 

[perfectchaos83]

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

I never really considered Geno a magic oriented character. He's more like a Mii gunner, imo. While I think it does "diminish" the talking point, I don't think it diminishes her chances. Just look at how many swords we have. Either way, I still think she is the best bet for a full on mage character where "magic is everything".

While we're at it, what do you think Shantae's chances are looking like? I'm could see her making it in, but I don't expect anything tomorrow. She definitely did great on the ballot and Wayforward is tight with Nintendo. The only thing holding her back is that the guest characters have a pretty high bar to meet compared to first parties. But with Bayonetta getting in because Platinum was tight with Nintendo despite her not being an icon, Shantae's biggest flaw is bit less serious. As for me wanting her, I guess if I can get past the jealousy, she would be a rather interesting female addition.

Shantae's a pipe dream character for me. I want her a lot, but is a character that I've decided will likely never happen. (Unlike Ashley). I would absolutely love Shantae to get in and it would, somewhat, alleviate the disappointment regarding Ashley. Personally, even with all the weird **** regarding Wayforward, I think it doesn't amount to much. I don't think she has very high chances to begin with even though I have always found her (and Reimu) to be the most likely indies to be represented in Smash as a Playable character. Either way, I'd be stoked, but That doesn't mean I'd give up on Ashley. She's still the only character that would make this roster perfect for me.

 

[Teeb147]

Well tomorrow is the day of the Nindies direct. And a lot of people are speculating that Shantae will get in based on Wayforwards silence on the matter.

View attachment 160110

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

While we're at it, what do you think Shantae's chances are looking like? I'm could see her making it in, but I don't expect anything tomorrow. She definitely did great on the ballot and Wayforward is tight with Nintendo. The only thing holding her back is that the guest characters have a pretty high bar to meet compared to first parties. But with Bayonetta getting in because Platinum was tight with Nintendo despite her not being an icon, Shantae's biggest flaw is bit less serious. As for me wanting her, I guess if I can get past the jealousy, she would be a rather interesting female addition.

Well, she's not a pure magic fighter, and she has transformations. Geno is more focused on ranged attacks with his body and bullets (including energy, I guess). I think Ashley as a more pure magic user can stand on her own.

Shantae has good chances. But as for on tomorow, most people in the shantae thread don't really think so, but the hype is still there :D

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I think people are selling Decidueye's stock because Vergeben predicted he won't be in it. Which is reasonable, considering Vergeben has batted 1.000 so far and many of his predictions have been far from obvious.

My reasoning for selling Decidueye short is simply that he isn’t marketed heavily, when at all. Lycanroc is the face of the anime currently. Lycanroc gets tons of stuff in the TCG. Heck, even Sceptile’s marketing is more recent in the TCG. I don’t honestly think there will be an alolan starter in this game. For me Lycanroc, Zeraora, Tapu Koko, and Sceptile are topping the likely-hood list this time, after rethinking brought me to the conclusion that alolan starters have received crap for marketing whereas Lycanroc got tons, Sceptile definitely being #1 for Pokémon in the ballot, and how easy it would be to make Zeraora a Lucario echo.

 

[StormC]

Ash is in Incineroar's concept art, which is probably what Sakurai was given as a reference.

This leads me to believe TPC has an interest in promoting him as a Smash fighter. No doubt Ash's Torracat will evolve into an Incineroar.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Ash is in Incineroar's concept art, which is probably what Sakurai was given as a reference.

This leads me to believe TPC has an interest in promoting him as a Smash fighter. No doubt Ash's Torracat will evolve into an Incineroar.

The only thing is Incineroar no matter how you look at it, is just another fire/fighting starter, but coated over with some black and called dark instead. He is the biggest flavor of the month choice ever, and will most likely be thrown out by fans when gen 8 rolls around with its own flavor of the month selections. Does anyone else feel like pokemon is losing its touch? Bewear is basically knockoff Ursaring, and don’t even get me started on Drampa...

 

[Samcrumpit]

I never really considered Geno a magic oriented character. He's more like a Mii gunner, imo. While I think it does "diminish" the talking point, I don't think it diminishes her chances. Just look at how many swords we have. Either way, I still think she is the best bet for a full on mage character where "magic is everything".



Shantae's a pipe dream character for me. I want her a lot, but is a character that I've decided will likely never happen. (Unlike Ashley). I would absolutely love Shantae to get in and it would, somewhat, alleviate the disappointment regarding Ashley. Personally, even with all the weird **** regarding Wayforward, I think it doesn't amount to much. I don't think she has very high chances to begin with even though I have always found her (and Reimu) to be the most likely indies to be represented in Smash as a Playable character. Either way, I'd be stoked, but That doesn't mean I'd give up on Ashley. She's still the only character that would make this roster perfect for me.

I'm surprised you think that. I don't even like Shantae and I initially said in the post thay she wasn't making it in because of a "hunch". But the more I thought of it, the more likely it seemed for her to become playable.

I have to ask, why do you, and Jazzy Jinx if you're seeing this, have her at such low odds?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I have to ask, why do you, and Jazzy Jinx if you're seeing this, have her at such low odds?

Because apparently a good amount of people in the community are salty over shovel knight, and like ignoring that Shantae has more moveset potential, as well as more history with Nintendo.

 

[Teeb147]

Well, to further that, it's not exactly the salt, it's just some people get hooked up on certain aspects of it and don't think she can be more than an AT.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I have to ask, why do you, and Jazzy Jinx if you're seeing this, have her at such low odds?

Half because I want her and half because I don't think any indies are going to be playable. As I said, I think that her (and Reimu) were both the only likely indies to be playable (I'm not exactly counting Travis Touchdown in this equation), but just because they are more likely than the competition doesn't make them likely. As a point of reference, She is my 4th most wanted for this game after Ashley.

Spoiler

Should be quite obvious what exactly I wanted out of this game. lulz.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

With that said, I was having some thoughts. With all these new magic fighters potentially getting in (Shanty, Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid) do they have a diminishing effect on Ashley's chances? A popular talking point in Ashley's favor was that there were few mage fighters in the roster so her inclusion would add needed diversity to the roster. If they were all to get in, then this statement will hold a lot less weight which is a shame but we'll just have to live with.

I know it's a point that's been beaten to death already but we do have a ridiculously high amount of sword fighters in the game (with, let's face reality, more on the way). Magic users are few and far between.

On top of that, none of them function the same: 1. Shantae primarily uses transformations and could also use pirate or fire attacks, 2. Geno is not a pure magic fighter (he's actually a glass cannon; he has strong magic and physical attack and weak resistance and defense), and he's more of a super flashy action figure, 3. Isaac is more earth magic and sword-based (though don't quote me on that, I don't know much about him xD) and 4. Skull Kid I could see do some gravity and dark magic attacks (though I'll be frank, I want him in the game but if I'm being fair, there's no indication he did well on the ballot; at least from online polling).

Ashley has her own unique attributes such as Red transforming into various things and possibly using debuffs, along with the more well-known witchy attributes that I'm sure is sorely missed in the game. Witches are a popular archetype after all, it would be fun to actually play as one. xD (That isn't just a witch on paper, Bayo... >=o ; No disrespect.~)

While we're at it, what do you think Shantae's chances are looking like? I'm could see her making it in, but I don't expect anything tomorrow. She definitely did great on the ballot and Wayforward is tight with Nintendo. The only thing holding her back is that the guest characters have a pretty high bar to meet compared to first parties. But with Bayonetta getting in because Platinum was tight with Nintendo despite her not being an icon, Shantae's biggest flaw is bit less serious. As for me wanting her, I guess if I can get past the jealousy, she would be a rather interesting female addition.

I'm tempering my expectations but I feel like Shantae's chances are slept on.

Spoiler

So far, the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the newcomers have been obvious ballot inclusions. Don't neglect the fact that veterans were also highly requested on the ballot and having them all return adds extra credence to the matter. As well as the fact that Sakurai up and said he's referring to the ballot results. And in all the fan polling, Shantae consistently scored in the higher echelons (along with Shovel Knight). I could see the logic in relegating her to an AT but there's a few reasons why she could have been chosen over Shovel Knight.

For one, she was never really that far away from him in terms of popularity. People make it sound like Shovel Knight was absolutely dusting her, like he was the #1 pick and she was like... #232. That level of disparity was never the case. He was always like... a few notches above her and that's it. Secondly, Sakurai has mentioned his design philosophy before includes that he likes expressive characters with unique silhouettes and the potential to bring a new mechanic to the table. They both cover the latter two but Shovel Knight does take a hit with expressiveness (whereas Shantae overwhelmingly succeeds there). And then of course, Shantae has the (much longer) history with Nintendo as well as rising from the ashes and proving to be a franchise that can withstand multiple entries (and is now being delivered globally; she's on the upswing). Shovel Knight, while still doing great, still hasn't proven he can stand the test of time yet.

Nintendo has stated they want to give Indies more focus and Shantae (along with Shovel Knight) are often featured front-and-center when it comes to advertising the Indie sections. If they really are including Indies in their strategy to increase profit margins, it could be a massive boon to include an Indie as popular as Shantae to the roster in a AAA game like this. Including her wouldn't just elevate her own popularity and sales, she could literally be a gateway to more Indie purchases by the fans, especially considering she crosses over into other Indie titles a lot. I have to imagine that Nintendo gets a cut of the profits for every Indie purchase and Indie games, usually being shorter, easier and far less expensive, could appeal heavily to casuals and people shot for time. In addition, Nintendo doesn't have to do any additional work. Marketing is really the only thing they need to do for the scene to turn a profit.

And finally, WayForward would be ridiculously easy to work with. Little known fact, Sakurai does have to negotiate with and correspond with 1st parties as well, not just 3rd parties. However, 3rd parties can be a huge mess themselves. I highly doubt they would face any issues with WF. All the legal matters and correspondence would be cut and dry.

As for the Nindies Direct, I don't expect anything at all. Though until she's shown off as an AT (WayForward's suspicious activity indicates that she's, at the very least, in the game in some form) I'll be holding out hope.~

Edit: Just seen this. xD

I have to ask, why do you, and Jazzy Jinx if you're seeing this, have her at such low odds?

For me personally it's that there's zero precedent for a Western-made, Western-owned character AND there's zero precedent for an Indie character. Two big strikes.

These could just be moot points though depending on what Sakurai (and Nintendo) think on the matter. I think it at least bodes well that Nintendo has made it a stated goal to give Indies more exposure. And precedent has been broken before.

 

[StormC]

The only thing is Incineroar no matter how you look at it, is just another fire/fighting starter, but coated over with some black and called dark instead. He is the biggest flavor of the month choice ever, and will most likely be thrown out by fans when gen 8 rolls around with its own flavor of the month selections. Does anyone else feel like pokemon is losing its touch? Bewear is basically knockoff Ursaring, and don’t even get me started on Drampa...

Every generation has people thinking Pokemon has jumped the shark.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Half because I want her and half because I don't think any indies are going to be playable. As I said, I think that her (and Reimu) were both the only likely indies to be playable (I'm not exactly counting Travis Touchdown in this equation), but just because they are more likely than the competition doesn't make them likely. As a point of reference, She is my 4th most wanted for this game after Ashley.

Spoiler

Should be quite obvious what exactly I wanted out of this game. lulz.

Eep, I wish I could find it in me to not go all in on Ashley but I guess I can't help it. Smash would be complete for me if she got in for me.

That said, I guess brutal realism is one way to cope. If she does happen to get in, you'll probably be estatic beyond belief because you didn't expect it. The feeling can't be that different from spending months convincing yourself that they're in and finding it out to be true. And I guess airing on the side of "realism" helps soften the blow if they're not in.

I know it's a point that's been beaten to death already but we do have a ridiculously high amount of sword fighters in the game (with, let's face reality, more on the way). Magic users are few and far between.

On top of that, none of them function the same: 1. Shantae primarily uses transformations and could also use pirate or fire attacks, 2. Geno is not a pure magic fighter (he's actually a glass cannon; he has strong magic and physical attack and weak resistance and defense), and he's more of a super flashy action figure, 3. Isaac is more earth magic and sword-based (though don't quote me on that, I don't know much about him xD) and 4. Skull Kid I could see do some gravity and dark magic attacks (though I'll be frank, I want him in the game but if I'm being fair, there's no indication he did well on the ballot; at least from online polling).

Ashley has her own unique attributes such as Red transforming into various things and possibly using debuffs, along with the more well-known witchy attributes that I'm sure is sorely missed in the game. Witches are a popular archetype after all, it would be fun to actually play as one. xD (That isn't just a witch on paper, Bayo... >=o ; No disrespect.~)



I'm tempering my expectations but I feel like Shantae's chances are slept on.

Spoiler

So far, the overwhelmingly majority (if not all) of the newcomers have been obvious ballot inclusions. Don't neglect the fact that veterans were also highly requested on the ballot and having them all return adds extra credence to the matter. As well as the fact that Sakurai up and said he's referring to the ballot results. And in all the fan polling, Shantae consistently scored in the higher echelons (along with Shovel Knight). I could see the logic in relegating her to an AT but there's a few reasons why she could have been chosen over Shovel Knight.

For one, she was never really that far away from him in terms of popularity. People make it sound like Shovel Knight was absolutely dusting her, like he was the #1 pick and she was like... #232. That level of disparity was never the case. He was always like... a few notches above her and that's it. Secondly, Sakurai has mentioned his design philosophy before includes that he likes expressive characters with unique silhouettes and the potential to bring a new mechanic to the table. They both cover the latter two but Shovel Knight does take a hit with expressiveness (whereas Shantae overwhelmingly succeeds there). And then of course, Shantae has the (much longer) history with Nintendo as well as rising from the ashes and proving to be a franchise that can withstand multiple entries (and is now being delivered globally; she's on the upswing). Shovel Knight, while still doing great, still hasn't proven he can stand the test of time yet.

Nintendo has stated they want to give Indies more focus and Shantae (along with Shovel Knight) are often featured front-and-center when it comes to advertising the Indie sections. If they really are including Indies in their strategy to increase profit margins, it could be a massive boon to include an Indie as popular as Shantae to the roster in a AAA game like this. Including her wouldn't just elevate her own popularity and sales, she could literally be a gateway to more Indie purchases by the fans, especially considering she crosses over into other Indie titles a lot. I have to imagine that Nintendo gets a cut of the profits for every Indie purchase and Indie games, usually being shorter, easier and far less expensive, could appeal heavily to casuals and people shot for time. In addition, Nintendo doesn't have to do any additional work. Marketing is really the only thing they need to do for the scene to turn a profit.

And finally, WayForward would be ridiculously easy to work with. Little known fact, Sakurai does have to negotiate with and correspond with 1st parties as well, not just 3rd parties. However, 3rd parties can be a huge mess themselves. I highly doubt they would face any issues with WF. All the legal matters and correspondence would be cut and dry.

As for the Nindies Direct, I don't expect anything at all. Though until she's shown off as an AT (WayForward's suspicious activity indicates that she's, at the very least, in the game in some form) I'll be holding out hope.~

Edit: Just seen this. xD



For me personally it's that there's zero precedent for a Western-made, Western-owned character AND there's zero precedent for an Indie character. Two big strikes.

This could just be moot points though depending on what Sakurai (and Nintendo) think on the matter. I think it at least bodes well that Nintendo has made it a stated goal to give Indies more exposure. And precedent has been broken before.

I think the magic saturation hurts Ashley in the sense that the niche she had is made less special. Less people will be calmoring for a witch if they don't think they're in desperate need of more of them. Just like less people are explicitly pushing for more female fighters just because the figure is in the double digits now.

I'm not saying that people will think that "we have too many magic users", just that they'll see the ratio of magic users as less of an issue as before.

I think loz is full of it, and I agree that SK probably wasn't that high based on that chart we've seen before. But it's too late now. A reddit user said it perfectly that leaks galvanize people's interest in a character like nothing else and now people have SK in the brain. Regardless of his original ballot placing, he's gonna be a contender for DLC sad to say. So I may be optimistic to say he's making it in base, but it's more because I want him out of the way so we don't have to compete with him while Ultimate is being updated.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Every generation has people thinking Pokemon has jumped the shark.

Hopefully gen 8 will turn things around after how annoying and hand-holding gen 6 and 7 were. Seriously Kalos and Alola were obviously driven toward casuals, and Let’s Go is going to be the same. I really don’t see them going the right direction from here, but I have hope that they throw hardcore fans a bone.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Eep, I wish I could find it in me to not go all in on Ashley but I guess I can't help it. Smash would be complete for me if she got in for me.

After Ridley was confirmed, I went all in on Ashley. XD Still going all in. It's how I am. I don't stop till my most wanted is in.

That said, I guess brutal realism is one way to cope. If she does happen to get in, you'll probably be estatic beyond belief because you didn't expect it. The feeling can't be that different from spending months convincing yourself that they're in and finding it out to be true. And I guess airing on the side of "realism" helps if it turns out they're not in.

I will indeed be very happy. Shantae is almost the opposite of how I treated Pre-Assist Ashley, ironically enough, in terms of chances.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I think the magic saturation hurts Ashley in the sense that the niche she had is made less special. Less people will be calmoring for a witch if they think they don't think they're in desperate need of more of them. Just like less people are explicitly pushing for more female fighters just because the figure is in the double digits now.

I'm not saying that people will think that "we have too many magic users", just that they'll see the ratio of magic users as less of an issue as before.

Eh... I disagree, I think Ashley's draw is more than just what she brings to the table moveset-wise (which would still be unique with Red transforming). The ratio will still, presumably, be absolute garbage even if all the characters you mentioned get in (and I'd still contest Geno being included amongst them as he's not a pure magic fighter; funnily enough, Isaac gets the "muh swords" treatment when he would be more of a magic fighter xD). And ratios are moot anyway when Sakurai obviously doesn't care. The fans complain about all kinds of OCD things that don't matter much at all.

Ashley still has a unique personality to bring with her, unique silhouette (HUGE twintails), distinguishable moveset that can't be replicated by anyone else on the roster, veteran or newcomer, and she's a rising star. Hell, what am I saying? She is a star (of Smash speculation).

If Geno gets added, that's going to crush any remaining dumb hurdles Ashley has in the way ("buh-buh... she's a secondary character from a spin-off title...!!!"). Literally the only other detracting point after that would be the dumb lewding of her. And if shotas Ness and Lucas are in, I don't think it matters. That's a perverse side of the internet that can easily be ignored with SafeSearch on.

More than likely she's going to be a heavyweight going forward in Smash speculation. Make sure to keep her visible and maybe Nintendo will get the hint and add her to Mario Kart or something. If that's the case, she'll start to soar and her chances will virtually be a lock in the future.

I think loz is full of it, and I agree that SK probably wasn't that high based on that chart we've seen before. But it's too late now. A reddit user said it perfectly that leaks galvanize people's interest in a character like nothing else and now that people have SK in the brain. Regardless of his original ballot placing, he's gonna be a contender for DLC sad to say. So I may be optimistic to say he's making it in base, but it's more because I want him out of the way so we don't have to compete with him while Ultimate is being updated.

We'll see.~

For all the supposed galvanizing, Skull Kid's thread is starting to get dusted by Shantae's. There's more optimism for characters that did well on the ballot (presumably). If any of the top ballot choices are left out (like I can see Banjo being) then I would worry more about the clamor for ballot picks. Could also work in your favor, though. Banjo, from what I can tell, is a potential legal nightmare. So a lot of fan focus could be moot.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

For all the supposed galvanizing, Skull Kid's thread is starting to get dusted by Shantae's. There's more optimism for characters that did well on the ballot (presumably). If any of the top ballot choices are left out (like I can see Banjo being) then I would worry more about the clamor for ballot picks. Could also work in your favor, though. Banjo, from what I can tell, is a potential legal nightmare. So a lot of fan focus could be moot.

People might actually be forgetting a key detail with the smash 4 skull kid thing: I guarantee, if it were Shantae OR Banjo with an AT, most if not all smash fans would have the same reaction. Let’s not forget Isaac was far more popular than skull kid at the time, and wasn’t present at all. Also didn’t Phil Spencer say that Microsoft was open to Banjo in smash?

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

People might actually be forgetting a key detail with the smash 4 skull kid thing: I guarantee, if it were Shantae OR Banjo with an AT, most if not all smash fans would have the same reaction. Let’s not forget Isaac was far more popular than skull kid at the time, and wasn’t present at all.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you clarify?

Also didn’t Phil Spencer say that Microsoft was open to Banjo in smash?

Phil Spencer, as far as I know, has nothing to do with Microsoft these days. Nevermind. I don't keep track of this stuff. xD

Banjo could be in a similar spot to Geno was in Smash 4 in that, if Sakurai is going to go to Microsoft for a character, a different character might have to take priority. Legendary Spirit Tamer makes a strong argument for this in the "Characters you don't want to see in Smash" thread.

Not that Banjo doesn't have good chances or doesn't deserve it or anything. It's just that the reality of his situation is more complicated than the fans want to acknowledge.

 

[StormC]

Phil Spencer, as far as I know, has nothing to do with Microsoft these days.

Eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spencer_(business_executive)

Phil Spencer is an American business executive, who is the current executive vice-president of Gaming at Microsoft.[3] He is currently the head of the Xbox brand and leads the global creative and engineering teams responsible for gaming at Microsoft.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spencer_(business_executive)

Ep... well, nevermind. xD

Following point still stands, though.~

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

I've never played Shantae's games or know who she is really, but I would totally be down for her inclusion just for the WTF-ness of a "never thought it was gonna happen" event of adding in an indie to Smash, especially if she's getting in over the universally popular Shovel Knight. The sheer levels of salt from the fallout would be hilarious. (no disrespect to Shovel Knight himself, I immensely respect his contributions towards pushing indies into the spot light)

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you clarify?

I mean with how Sakurai actually clarified that skull kid was an assist and not playable, and how that same sentence would have occurred had it been Banjo or Shantae that got the assist treatment back then.

 

[perfectchaos83]

It's not up to Phil Spencer to get Banjo in Smash though. He may have a say in the matter, but the final decision will lay with the suits at the top of the ladder. Xbox doesn't own Rare, Microsoft does.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

(no disrespect to Shovel Knight himself, I immensely respect his contributions towards pushing indies into the spot light)

No disrespect taken. His limited game amount wasn't going to help him get in anyway, but at least he gets a good showing in Blade Strangers.

 

[Samcrumpit]

It sucks that the demo leak rumor turned out to be nothing. Honestly at this point that I know Ash is an assist, I wouldn't mind finding out about every characters that's getting in right now

 

[Tasokun]

Hello everyone,
https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9b8niz/smash_ultimate_character_poll/
Here is another character poll

 

[Samcrumpit]

Hello everyone,
https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9b8niz/smash_ultimate_character_poll/
Here is another character poll

Ashley only 11%. Fricking ouch. Also Skull Kid is at 51% which should tell us that Smashboards Reply numbers aren't everything. While SK isn't the biggest here, the bandwagon effect has served him pretty well on Reddit

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hello everyone,
https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9b8niz/smash_ultimate_character_poll/
Here is another character poll

>Clint, Annie, Duke Nukem and Earthworm Jim

This pleases me. Though there were certainly some odd choices in there.

>My Boy Waluigi
I legit cracked up at this.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

Ashley only 11%. Fricking ouch. Also Skull Kid is at 51% which should tell us that Smashboards Reply numbers aren't everything. While SK isn't the biggest here, the bandwagon effect has served him pretty well on Reddit

It's actually better than what I expected for Ashley. Just like Skull Kid is being massively bandwaggonned, Ashley is also being anti-bandwaggonned. If anything I am glad an inkling of her support survives. Rebuilding it might take time tho :/

 

[perfectchaos83]

Ashley only 11%. Fricking ouch. Also Skull Kid is at 51% which should tell us that Smashboards Reply numbers aren't everything. While SK isn't the biggest here, the bandwagon effect has served him pretty well on Reddit

Still, Rank ~30 out of what seems like about a hundred isn't too bad. Work may be cut out for us, but don't let it get you down.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Still, Rank ~30 out of what seems like about a hundred isn't too bad. Work may be cut out for us, but don't let it get you down.

I wish I could bro but being behind Gengar, Eggman, Marx, and Pheonix Wright is pretty demoralizing. Still, she got bumped to 12%, so that's a plus.

That's my kneejerk reaction. I realize that this is a "choose all that apply" poll and we are currently deconfirmed so that also hurts us. Being high in one of those lists is good, but if you're not the first choice in those people's minds then you're not going to retain a lot of these votes for the ballot or capital on social media.

 

[Gerrothorax]

The thing about these polls is that people don't vote for who they like, just who they think has the best chance of getting in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The thing about these polls is that people don't vote for who they like, just who they think has the best chance of getting in.

That's pretty sad, since seeing some of my wants getting so few votes just hurts. The biggest insult has to be Urban Champ somehow getting more votes than some of the lowest-ranked.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

That's pretty sad, since seeing some of my wants getting so few votes just hurts. The biggest insult has to be Urban Champ somehow getting more votes than some of the lowest-ranked.

I’m glad to see that even where bias occurs my boy Sceptile’s still got it. On the other hand, Dixie being as low as she was is a true showing of reddit bias/bandwagon (seriously?! Paper mario?! Would someone mind telling me where he was during smash 4/dlc speculation?!)

 

[StormC]

I’m glad to see that even where bias occurs my boy Sceptile’s still got it. On the other hand, Dixie being as low as she was is a true showing of reddit bias/bandwagon (seriously?! Paper mario?! Would someone mind telling me where he was during smash 4/dlc speculation?!)

Paper Mario was pretty popular during Smash 4 speculation. Certainly more than Dixie. It's actually pretty rare to see Dixie do well on a poll.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Paper Mario was pretty popular during Smash 4 speculation. Certainly more than Dixie. It's actually pretty rare to see Dixie do well on a poll.

And all polls seem to be made on reddit and gameFAQS... see the trend here? I never saw the name paper mario once outside of the sites known for extreme bias when I browsed for all the info I could find during the smash 4 era. Besides who would Sakurai pick? A unique character with their own identity and a fun playstyle? Or flat mario who wouldn’t even use the partners gimmick if he got in?